News footage of Emirates A380 arrival into JFK

[Dune]

Not sure of which runway they landed on (I suspect 22L) but it appears by the footage it was a bit of a turbulent day (note the movement of the rudder on final and aileron deflection short final).

Interesting footage you don't often see (taken from their news helicopter).

Superjumbo Jet Lands At JFK - Videos - WNBC (http://video.wnbc.com/player/?id=282105)

Edit: watched the video again and it definately was 22L.

[clevlandHD]

#4 reverser did not delpy, not a good start.

[powerstall]

hmm.. thought it was the #4 engine, ( i may be counting the wrong way!) the reverser didn't deploy, any one who knows a bit regarding the A380's engines, if it was intentional or a fault? :sad:

[what_goes_up]

#4 reverser did not delpy, not a good start.

There is a good reason for that... there is no reverser on Eng 1 and 4 :ok:

[EGGW]

Reversers only fitted on engines 2 and 3!! Nothing wrong :rolleyes:

EGGW

[sispanys ria]

Impressive to see such a big bird bouncing around. For sure the wind was at the party. I suppose external reverses are not fitter because the engines are too close from the grass (or sand :\) with such a span...

[sanjosebaz]

I was on there, and the direction changes were not noticable. It was impressive how efficiently the (2) thrust reversers managed to slow the a/c so quickly. According to the captain, they used a shorter runway than planned due to late wind direction change. Great flight (both ways!). :)

[shortfuel]

Use of rudder on short final is really impressive.
What's your opinion: are these rudder inputs made by the pilot or AFS? If done by the pilot, well, that's a new landing technique on a bus.

[BYMONEK]

Good question and one which i'd like to know the answer to as well.

You certainly don't want to be using rudder at all on big jets these days unless you lose an engine or it's xwind T/O or landing. These things aren't cessna172's. Having never flown Airbus in my life ( shame! :rolleyes: ), I would like to hear from someone in the know. Is the system on the A380 much different to the rest of the Airbus FBW fleet?

[pool]

No. The last 200ft no one really knows who does what or where does the input come from...... :}
From an Airbus lover who just survives

[EGGW]

With an Airbus FBW, you select the attitude you want, and the ELAC, FAC's and SEC's (depending in type), move the flight controls surfaces to achieve the demand selected. I know the 380 might be different again, however!
The approach was on 22L, VOR approach, which is offset, so for a co-ordinated turn on to the runway track, rudder input will happen.

Nothing sinister, i'll ask the Missus, she was on the flight ;) By all accounts it is a very quiet ship and the pax loved it!

EGGW

[BYMONEK]

EGGW

Thanks for the explanation. Just seemed a lot of rudder to me but then I guess it's a lot of plane!

pool

That last 200ft you talk about. Every landing's like that for me! :ooh:

[pool]

Yeah ....
sort of reminds me of the joke where on retirement day the missus files for divorce telling you that she always faked them and the fleet chief shakes your hand good bye telling you the side-stick was never connected .... :{

[midseal]

What i found intrigue-ing is how the wings unloaded on touchdown, now that is spec-tac!!

[shortfuel]

Yep...you'd better be on the ground before it happens ;)

Unfortunately, I think it's almost impossible to say for the rudder just by watching the video...PRIM, SEC's actions or whatever they called it on that one are transparent to the user.
There are only 2 lucky guys who could shed the light.
Am not a mechanical engineer, but one of the reasons could be turn coordination (even for small inputs?), momemtum equilibrium,...even if a rudder seeming to go repetitively from left to right looks strange to me...

We'll find out by flying it...

[sispanys ria]

There are only 2 lucky guys who could shed the light.

Well just need to ask them... which I'll try to do soon :)

[scaglietti]

"And that's a 6 from the East German judge".

I really hope none of my approaches are ever televised.:confused:

Scaglietti

[pitoss]

It's the first time I see a flight control computer over-controlling the Aircraft :eek:.
New Times in Aviation!
Thanks God I'm in the Boeing!!! :\

[Evanelpus]

You've gotta love that wing flex on touchdown.

[GMDS]

It's the first time I see a flight control computer over-controlling the Aircraft

You do that on a landing, you get sacked. My buddy ex-AA turned quite pale when he saw this kind of deflection.
At least i now know where the overweight originates on this behemouth: Strengthening structure for the finn.

[dooner]

Have a look at the footage of the landing in Heathrow a couple of years back (by the Airbus test-drivers) servo jacks on the rudder getting a hell of a work out with the standard UK crosswinds...fly-by-wire smoke and mirrors I guess, after 15 years of it I don't give it a second thought anymore, oh well looked impressive.

I'm guessing the CP didn't give that landing to his FO:E

Dooner:ok:

[Lord Bracken]

Not specifically related to the rudder, but this is quite interesting:

Redusing the load
While aerodynamic and structural efficiency obviously affect the overall performance of the wing, the weight of the wing is significantly influenced by the loads which the structure must react. To a large degree these loads are generated by aerodynamic forces developed when an aircraft makes a manoeuvre or encounters turbulent air. The A380 is the first commercial aircraft to use a combined Load Alleviation Function (LAF) to minimise the effects of both flying situations. When the aircraft executes a manoeuvre the system is designed to deflect the wing movable surfaces to minimise the loads. In a similar fashion the controls will also deploy when the aircraft encounters turbulence, again with the aim of reducing loads on the wing.
In addition, patented load reduction techniques were developed to enable the fuel system to control the loads actively on the wing in all phases of flight, continuing a tradition started in the UK with Concorde. Typically, Airbus aircraft pump fuel between the wing tanks and tail tank to maintain the centre of gravity in the most advantageous place to minimise the drag of the aircraft in cruise. This happens too on the A380, but here the technique goes one step further.
In the A380 fuel is also pumped from the inner wing tanks to the outer wing tanks after take-off and then in the opposite direction before touchdown, which reduces the “ground-air-ground” fatigue loads on the wing (Figure 1). The combination of these load alleviation techniques saves more than two and a half tonnes of wing weight.

[Sal-e]

I think that because of the relatively 'short' length of this aircraft, you would need rudders the size of barn doors for effective yaw control. Also explains maybe why only the inner two engines have thrust reversers. Assymetric reversing from outer engines might be have too much moment for the rudder to handle. Possible VMCA and VMCG issues.

[Diesel8]

The A-320 had LAF, used the spoilers for it, however the system is no longer used.

[Sal-e]

Apparently, some A320s have the LAF disabled option.

[40&80]

Anyway it is all jolly clever stuff and possibly lots to go wrong.....I pray they never loose one due all this clever stuff failing to work as it ages.
I note there is a B777 wreck going cheap at LHR and nobody seems to presently know exactly what caused thoes engines to fail to respond....if they do presently they are not telling.

[Iver]

How many more A380s expected to be delivered through the end of the year? How about next year?

[sanjosebaz]

How many more A380s expected to be delivered through the end of the year? How about next year?The list on Wiki (here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A380_orders_and_deliveries)) is regularly maintained. You will see what you are looking for in the 'Production List' about halfway down the page.

For instance, Emirates should have 4 by year end, and aim to start LHR service on Dec 1, so the model parked on the Concorde (or is it Emirates?) roundabout will mean something then. :)

[bigusdicus]

Sal-e wrote:

"I think that because of the relatively 'short' length of this aircraft, you would need rudders the size of barn doors for effective yaw control. Also explains maybe why only the inner two engines have thrust reversers. Assymetric reversing from outer engines might be have too much moment for the rudder to handle. Possible VMCA and VMCG issues."


Seems I remember the nos. 1 and 4 reversers were removed solely to reduce weight. Correct me if I'm wrong.:ok:

Bigus

[Jet II]

Seems I remember the nos. 1 and 4 reversers were removed solely to reduce weight. Correct me if I'm wrong.:ok:

Bigus

Wasn't the original plan to remove all 4 reversers but the FAA told them to put some back?

[ONEIN60]

That's correct Jet. The original plan was not to have any reversers but Airbus were told to compromise and that is why two engines were fitted. Not sure which authorities were involved though.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

:mad::sad: Guys: The rule is not to post here if you ain't got a clue or if you had too many drinks before you switched on the PC.

Have a look at all available youtube footage of 380 landings. The rudder is always very lively. Its a short coupled bird, right?

Airbus never thought about getting rid of all reversers. Not installing them on 1+4 is simply for not digging trenches next to 45m runways.

EDA is alive and well and as I am writing this, Abbas is taking her from LAX to JFK to end the west coast promotional tour.

BTW: Thanks to AA and their elderly and 'maintained by Americans with pride' 757 for screwing up the water curtain arrival in LA. Their elderly bird needed the fire trucks more urgently than us.

[pilotguy1222]

Doubt they would have used the 22L VOR when there is an ILS on that runway.

That wing unloading was most impressive.

Got to watch it take off Monday morning. Nothing spectacular to see from inside the airport, but did make for a nice smile.

[mahfooz]

How about this for another turbulent EK arrival, this time landing in Seychelles.
Follow the link
YouTube - Emirates A330 crosswind landing attempt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du3akvMbpZs)

[White Knight]

Well, the Seychelles can be very sporting:ok:

Besides - better to go around and give it another go than be a d1ckhead and go off the runway....

[kijangnim]

Greetings,
reversers on the other engines would probably vacum clean FODs Grass and other stuff outside the runway edge :}

[engineer07]

The reason you see a lot of rudder activity on approach (it's the FBW system commanding it not the pilot via the pedals) is that the A380 has different control law in Yaw to previous Airbus'. In very simple terms zero rudder pedal deflection commands zero sideslip (provided there is no engine failure). So the FBW will use the rudder to maintain zero sideslip (measured by 3 sideslip probes just in front of the cockpit windshield).

[shortfuel]

That would make sense...Is it that "active stability" introduced on the A380?

Hope the rudder can cope with such work and fatigue!