EZY Pay Rise 2008

[crewcostundercontrol]

EZY Pilots are on for a 5-6% Pay rise! The deal was RPI + 0.5%. RPI at the moment is close to 4.8% and forcast to peak in the next few months and then fall, September being the critical valuse for the pay rise. Not bad in these hard times!

1: Do you think CV AH JP will try and get out of paying it?

2: What does this mean for next years pay deal?

3: How will you spend yours...?

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Not bad in these hard times!


So only 0.5% more than standing still!! I guess the real rate of inflation is still about 10%, so no real gain.

[crewcostundercontrol]

Yes I agree but trying to get 10% out of lalaorangeland would be a pipe dream. Anything pay deal giving a genuine 5% + is not bad in any industry. The cost of living has always gone up faster than pay and probably always will, so clawing back every last 0.001% is a must.

[Wingswinger]

The cost of living has always gone up faster than pay

Not so. Otherwise no-one would ever have enjoyed an improved standard of living.

[PENKO]

Nice question. I would expect the answer shortly after the final DTM 'agreement', so as not to influence that little piece of negotiation. Anyway, why not post this question in our nice little easyForum below? It's nice to have everything under one umbrella I think.

[JB007]

5% ish is the norm - same as us last year and others...very respectable...speak to Jet2 staff who I understand got 2%...http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/huepfen/jumping-smiley-027.gif

[one post only!]

Rumour has it the board already made a tentative suggestion about stopping our pay rise but were told (apparently by lalaland managment) that it was a total non starter!!!

Praying for a huge RPI spike in sept!!!!!!! Think positice, think 15%!

[exvicar]

And then watch interest rates rocket to 17%. Pay rise spent on rising bills and mortgage cost. I would rather see low inflation and a reduction in the price of oil.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Wake up and smell the coffee, folks!

This is not, repeat NOT a "payrise".

RPI is, as everyone knows, a government -fudged figure that represents about HALF of the true inflation rate. The UK did not suddenly become the most expensive place in the world on Tony B Liar's 1 -2% RPI over 10 years, did it? Think about it!

Thus RPI + 1/2% is yet another decent sized payCUT, dressed up in the usual Orange smoke and mirrors to look different, and justified by a lack of unity amongst the aircrew (union membership) and a cynically devious misinterpretation of the Pulse survey.

Do not be fooled, this is the fifth or sixth year RUNNING there has been an effective paycut.


Next year? Well, you guess, eh?

ps. join the union, or buy vaseline and s-m-i-l-e!

[kriskross]

Plus you get taxed at top rate on the increase, so you don't actually get the full amount.

[Mondeoman]

Well done EZY guys, here at Wizz we got a big fat 0%, not that I'm jealous or anything !!:sad:

[electricdeathjet]

Agaricus bisporus

You smell the coffee mate,

You obviously havent been made redundant in your working life! Or work for a company that is feeling the pinch. Any pay rise, even 0.1% is more than many pilots can be expecting in these uncertain times.
Look at the big picture and be grateful buddy!

[Kraut]

Even in this tough year EZY is making a significant profit!!
If there is a reasonable profit, there should be pay rise!

Yeah, I have been made redundant and gave pay cuts in favour for my old company. It did not help and paycuts will never help to make a company survive. There are much more important factors to consider!

[Speevy]

With 120 milion profit expected for the year ending september 2008 how can you ask to your employees to give up a deal that was signed and already agreed?

And yep like Kraut stated, giving up a pay rise or accepting a pay cut will not help any company to survive...

Speevy

[electricdeathjet]

£120 million profit? I really dont think so, they will be happy with £12 million profit with the current fuel prices....

[crewcostundercontrol]

Is there anyone out there who knows what the forcast RPI value for September 2008 is. Have been going round and round the internet but real joy. Interesting coments so far, some people think that this is a poor deal some think it's great. I think if we were negotiating for a new deal for this October then we would have had a couple of % or Zero at best. So in view of that I think RPI + 0.5 is Fantastic.

[Speevy]

£120 million profit? I really dont think so, they will be happy with £12 million profit with the current fuel prices....

do your research, I did mine...

Check the 3q results and the forecasted profit.

Speevy

[BusBoy]

Kraut, following that logic, if the company makes a loss then there should be pay cuts??

[electricdeathjet]

Speevy
WATCH THIS SPACE :ok:

[one post only!]

evicar, it was a joke and that was why I said SPIKE. As in rises and then sharply falls back after our pay rise (if as discussed we can really call it that due to fudging of government figures) to a couple of % (In the dream world). In the real world low inflation and low oil prices would be better I agree!

Emails from management do keep mentioning the management/board pay freeze due to tough times. Are they preparing us for the next pay talks........? What would save more, the FD having a pay freeze or us retracting the landing lights after cleaning up? Don't know, but I bet some people see us as a area of serious cost saving potential not yet explored! They are going to try anything to remain in profit. If we start to make a loss (due to the market and not really due to management fault) then the shareholders will want action. Heads will roll. It’s the way it is. Self preservation is a wonderful thing. I think Balpa have some very tough times ahead, I only hope the membership levels are high enough to allow them to do their job effectively.

[crewcostundercontrol]

One Post Only

You are right in what you say. BALPA % must go up and we must unite if we have any chance just to maitain what we have next year. Just about all the guys I fly with are in BALPA but I think we should come up with a better way of getting hold of the non BALPA guys and get them to sign up. I think the last count we were 75% + not too bad but if we could get in to the 90%s then it would show real force, and yes lets pray for a RPI spike in Sept....

[Kraut]

Kraut, following that logic, if the company makes a loss then there should be pay cuts??

BUSBOY

depends on what the Salary is based on. Should be the same as management salaries. Basic pay + Good times, "bonus payment". No profit, no bonus pay.
I know, lot of pilots would not like that idea. I would prefer it.
If you are flying for a "stable" airline, it should be ok. Not probably practical for "shaky" airlines.
EZY offerd something quite similar to the pilots a while ago, but the pilots declined that deal.

[ReallyAnnoyed]

Kraut, for the guys who have high fixed costs it is not desireable to have huge fluctuations in income. I could easily live with it, but I strongly oppose it for a different reason: I have 0% faith in our management being honest in profit related pay. In my mind, there is not the slightest bit of doubt that they would fiddle around with the figures and cry wolf come pay day and then magically recover afterwards. After all, they are managers and their job is to screw all employees as much as they can without an open revolt.

Regarding electricdeathjet's doomsday prophecy I suggest you read this easyJet.com - Q3 Interim Management Statement (http://www.easyjet.com/EN/News/q3_2008_interim_management_statement.html)

I think that you will find that city boys have long memories if companies are directly lying 3 months before the fiscal year ends and I am sure too many greedy managers have a bonus hanging on FTSE100 accomplishment to risk that.

[Binder]

Answers to original question:

1) No

2) Nothing whatsoever

3) Absorbed by increased cost of living.

Spare a thought for the Guys & Girls in Dortmund who have been given the shove. The same might happen in the UK this Winter.

As Dolly Parton used to sing, "Don't sweat the small stuff"

Binder

[Kraut]

Guys, I agree totally NOT to trust our mangement at all. But as a PLC there are written rules which could be checked out by financial specialists.
For me all phrases (better place to work, etc) coming from Lalaland are just prpaganda for preparation to erode our working conditions.
And I have no bad feeling to make my opinion public, as newbees or even experienced pilots may believe to much orange phrases.
It´s just an airline with job security, good aircraft and a fixed rosterpattern. Nothing else. If you are at the wrong base, you are flying your ar.s.e. off, fight aginst crewing which try everyday some tricks against you.
That´s reality, which deserves a pay raise!

[Speevy]

eletric,
I will watch this space..

Wanna bet?

Speevy

[Craggenmore]

Spare a thought for the Guys & Girls in Dortmund who have been given the shove. To CDG hopefully. Most seem to want that to happen according to CDG crew room chat....

[PENKO]

At the moment, the only thing that stands black and white on paper is redundancy for the DTM people should the base close. Still waiting on firm offers for redeployment..CDG is not mentioned as yet, not even as a 'possibility'.

[5150]

BALPA did a cr@p job negotiating on the last pay rise and I fully expect them to do the same with the next one, hence I'm no longer paying my subs . . .

[electricdeathjet]

Spev..... Im watching,
looking forward to the beers :E
edj

[Husky One]

5150 perhaps if the BALPA deal was so crap you should've continued paying your subs and stood for election. Instead you chose to undermine the BALPA position at future negotiations :ugh:. If you bothered to do some research you'd find that the last paydeal was one of the better ones. Not ideal by any means but better than what we'll get if others follow your ill conceived idea.

[one post only!]

5150, if Balpa don't negotiate a good enough deal next time if you're not a member how will you let them know?? At least if you re-join you can vote no on the paydeal, voice your displeasure on the website forum etc etc. A lot of members thought the last deal could have been better (however left to CV it would have been much worse) but we didn't all leave as a result! Most realise that would only weaken balpa massively.

We can all either get behind Balpa and defend our T&C's or just give up, leave Bapla and watch our T&C's plummet!!!!

Do you want to turn and face the problem or let it sneak up behind you??

[st nicholas]

Burn the scab

That said I am not in BALPA either. I have lived with the shame for over 9 years. Saved thousands and now have a couple of months of mortgage payments saved should it all go pear shaped.

I am a jack jack bast**d. :uhoh:

[Ashling]

selfish idiot

[st nicholas]

Ashling

I see you are ex services. RAF. I am ex services too. Army.

Three things I have learned

1. Never volunteer.
2. Dont worry about what people think of you as they will not remember you when you have gone.
3. If you want loyalty get a dog.

I am certainly not a selfish person. I may be an idiot. I realise BALPA membership is an emotive issue but I consider that union to be overly expensive. If I was a member and f**ked up they would wash their hands of me anyway. As for financial advice and the other benefits ,there are better and cheaper products out there on the market. As for pay negotiations, well should I ever become unhappy with my lot I will obtain better employment and leave ( voting with my feet).

Lets not get too emotive shall we.

[jackitin]

Management are reading this so instead of Ideas Pay I will submit this cost saving measure for others to discuss. I think it might get quite a bit of support from about 70% of the pilots.

When the next pay deal is arranged, it should only apply to BALPA members who have paid subs to have specialist negotiators act on their behalf.

Non members can negotiate thier own pay deals.

This would save at least 4-5% of one ex army chaps salary for next year management bonus!

[great2fly]

Guys,
Don't forget the pilots on spanish contracts within easyJet who is not included in the RPI + 1/2 %, they have been offered a ridiculous "payrise" or paycut (which ever way you look at it), and currently negotiations have been stalled by management. Effectively pilots have been without an agreement since february 2008, while inflation in Spain at the moment is 5.1%, expected to peak at 5.5% in September.

Support and join BALPA.

[Wingswinger]

St.Nic,

If I was a member and f**ked up they would wash their hands of me anyway.

Are you saying that if you were a member and you had an accident or incident, and a court of law found you culpably negligent or deliberately criminal, you'd expect BALPA still to support you? Neither the BMA nor the Law Society would stand by a doctor or solicitor in those circumstances so why would you expect it of BALPA?

If you don't like the prospect of being a BALPA member, preferring to free-load, I have a suggestion: Why don't you donate 1% (0.6% after tax-relief) of your salary to a charity? How about an ex-forces organisation?

[XXPLOD]

Well, the Government have refused Police Officers outrageous request for 3.5% and offered a huge 2.325% which was refused.

Arbitration here we come again!

[crewcostundercontrol]

RPI now 5% and forcast to go up again next month. Pay rise should be close to 6% now!:ok: Will probably be wiped out by the sector pay HMRC are going to take away from us.:{

[Re-Heat]

Some people are living in cloud cuckoo land - inflation is not forecast to rise much further than at present, and indeed is forecast to fall off a clidd shortly:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/inflationreport/mktcpimay08large.gif

No sane person wishes for increased inflation to consequently raise a pay claim - the lessons of the 70s forgotten?!!

[crewcostundercontrol]

Re-Heat

You are right in what you say and would be happy to have a pay rise of 0% if fuel was down to 80p a ltr or if my gas bill was down a half but it aint. EZY are giving us RPI + 0.5% based on September 2008 rate. So just hope for a big spike in sept to get more dosh then a big fall in inflation would be grand.

Cheers

[kriskross]

Trouble is that our pay rise is only playing catch up on the rises in prices over the last year. Once tax is also taken off, then cash in the pocket in no way covers real increases in cost of living.

[kick the tires]

Kriskross says: Trouble is that our pay rise is only playing catch up on the rises in prices over the last year. Once tax is also taken off, then cash in the pocket in no way covers real increases in cost of living.

Well thats the first time I've heard someone complain that a payrise isnt being calculated on NET pay!!

Personally I think we have done rather well with rpi+0.5%, particularly when you look at other settlements and the current climate of oil costs!

[Ashling]

That will be because RPI for Oct has not been published so no one knows exactly how much the pay rise will be.

[Capt Hook]

You probably won't see the extra until your end of Nov pay, but it will be back dated to 01 Oct!

[quattro1]

Payroll helpdesk don't know anything about a raise?

Thought it was already done and dusted at last months RPI +0.5% so 5.3%?

Does anyone actually know what going on?

[Gary Lager]

Read the last two posts. RPI for September, which is what the increment is based on, is published in mid-October i.e. next week. That misses the cut-off date for Oct salary but will be made up-to-date in November's pay.

R-E-L-A-X...what can possibly go wrong? You haven't spent it already, have you?

[B767PL]

To get a job for EZY do you have to have TR, and if you don't have one do they make you pay for one yourself if you want to get the job?

Just curious if its another pay for training company.

Thanks :)

[quattro1]

What can go wrong?

They are coming to talk to us in our crew rooms about something on the very day that the RPI figure and therefore the payrise is announced?

They are going to try to weasel out of it for sure!

Can They?

[Speevy]

They are going to try to weasel out of it for sure!

Can They?

It depends on how strong "WE" are...

Definitely needs to stick together these days.

Speevy

[jetjockey737]

I have a feeling that this announcement will go along the lines of 'really tough trading conditions...blah blah blah, oil price has been $145 a barrel...blah blah blah, strengthening dollar affecting 40% of our costs....blah blah blah...........ok guys about that pay rise!'

Everyone must join Balpa...they may have made decisions that you werent happy about in the past but we need to show some solidarity at the minute. This is not so that we can run the airline into the ground but so that we dont get screwed left right and centre. If we can get 95% membership ( you are always going to get some freeloaders) then we are in a much more powerful bargaining position.

I predict random rostering, W patterns and some other such suggestions over the coming weeks.....enjoy!!!

[Capt Hook]

I really can't understand why this thread is on the public forum!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Ladies/Gents - many of you contributing here are easyJet pilots/cabin crew. May I respectfully suggest that washing our dirty laundry in public is not appropriate at this time. There is a very-well used easyJet forum within PPruNe which I heartily recommend to you. If you are not members and would like to participate just PM me with your name and staff number and I guarantee that you will be allowed access to the forum within 48 hours. Your details, as always, will be kept strictly private and once I have verified you are a genuine easyJet employee your name and staff number will disappear! Anonymity is guaranteed.

As I say, you are free to say whatever you want, but please think before you post on a public forum as it is potentially very damaging to our cause. Many thanks. NSF

[box]

It be nice if Balpa management could get their asses out of the chair and get in contact with the pilots. Go to the bases and talk to the people and feel the pulse.

[Right Touch]

RPI announced today at 5% so thats a 5.5% pay deal on basic salary and a 5% increase for sector pay , pretty good bearing in mind the current economic climate.

Also most forecasters are now prediciting RPI to decrease form next month onwards so BALPA's timing was spot on !! :O

[kick the tires]

It was actually Cor Blimey that insisted on the 2 year deal, so his own goal, not BALPA's doing.

[Husky One]

Indeed, perhaps todays meeting is to set up a fund to help him buy some new trousers :}