The fastest (and Best) way to get hour builidng...

[overclock25]

Dear friends,

I need to know how can I make my time building in USA???

I have a JAA PPL and what is the procedure to convert it? How many weeks do I need? I want to go there as soon as possible.

Wich is a good place to fly (and to have a good availibility of aircraft :O)...Florida, texas, ohio???


Please help me

Thanks a lot

matteo :)

[Shunter]

This Article (http://flyerwiki.netsplit.com/wiki/FAA_Piggy-Back_License) explains the procedure for getting your FAA PPL, although the bit regarding the UK CAA will obviously be different for an Italian-issued license. They will issue on the day, but there is paperwork to deal with before you go, and that can take time - upto 90 days.

You don't require any kind of visa for hour-building in the USA. Show up to an FSDO, get your temporary certificate, go to a flying school, do a BFR (FAA have confirmed not legally required for piggy-back license holders, but noone will rent you a plane without one), then go flying.

I'm sure others will be along with recommendations as to competitively priced places to hour build. Personally I'd be tempted to choose somewhere a little more interesting than Florida and enjoy the scenery.

[BHenderson]

Matteo,

My recommendation would be to get the aircraft for an extended period an go touring. It's much easier to build hours this way. I've just come back from the US. I rented a C150 ($68 per hour) and managed 37 hours in a week. Route was Los Angeles - Las Vegas - Salt Lake City - Yellowstone - Spokane - Seattle - San Francisco - Los Angeles. Longest day was 8.8 hrs. Saw some lovely scenery. Lots of mountain experience. To be honest I could have managed more if the aircraft had kept up with me!

It required a reasonable amount of planning, but it was well worth it. Be careful of living costs while here. When I factored these in the hourly rate was about $95 per hour. This was mainly because of the extra days with mechanical problems and the destinations/hotels that I chose.

I would say that Florida has the best availability of aircraft but the worst scenery. The West coast (specifically the North West) probably has the best scenery. I found that the smaller schools and private owners are generally more flexible to your needs than the specilized hour building organizations.

Bobby

[overclock25]

Thanks a lot my friends.

Just for example, where can I find these aircraft owners that gives to me an aircraft for more days???

Any address???


Thanks again!!!!

[BarryW]

Hi,

I was going to post a similar question, If the OP does not mind a couple of questions/input from my side, otherwise I will start a new thread.

Florida is so far my first choice at the moment, reasonable aircraft at reasonable prices and the people I have been in contact with seem friendly.
Some of the limitations by a couple of establishments, no East to West trips unless you have done a mountain specialty course or appropriately experienced.
No cross border flights except to Alaska and the Bahamas, trips to the Bahamas require an Instrument rating.
If you take the aircraft overnight you will be billed for a minimum of 5 hours.

The rates for a C172 are about $140, little bit more for the g1000, I like the old school cockpit.

Two weeks is recommended for 50 hours. From Nov to May is apparently the best time to go.

The FAA requires 90 days for them to process your license, and you need to book aircraft at least 3 months in advance.

Other posts on this forum have suggested other locations such as Malaysia, Spain, Australia and South Africa.

I am from South Africa and did my ppl there, the scenery is amazing but the weather can be a bit temperamental and the aircraft are a bit tired for the price you pay.

I would like to enjoy my hour building and not just fly holes in the sky for sake of clocking up the hours, any input would be appreciated.

Again if the original poster thinks this is too much of a hijack i will create a new thread.

Thanks,

[nich-av]

(http://flyerwiki.netsplit.com/wiki/FAA_Piggy-Back_License)This Article (http://flyerwiki.netsplit.com/wiki/FAA_Piggy-Back_License) explains the procedure for getting your FAA PPL, although the bit regarding the UK CAA will obviously be different for an Italian-issued license. They will issue on the day, but there is paperwork to deal with before you go, and that can take time - upto 90 days.

You don't require any kind of visa for hour-building in the USA. Show up to an FSDO, get your temporary certificate, go to a flying school, do a BFR (FAA have confirmed not legally required for piggy-back license holders, but noone will rent you a plane without one), then go flying.
(http://flyerwiki.netsplit.com/wiki/FAA_Piggy-Back_License)

For Italian licenses there's additional procedures to be met with Italian authorities before and after the hour building in order to validate hours built in the U.S. with the Italian CAA.

Overclock, as mentionned in previous exchanges, Florida is not the best place during the summer/early fall. High winds, hurricanes, thunderstorms, hot & humid weather, etc...

[BHenderson]

The rate you quoted for the C172 is on the high end of the spectrum. However the school does seem to have its head screwed on regarding crossing the Rockies and the other requirements. My only quibble is the 5 hour minimum per day. It seems a little steep compared to other schools. If all the profit is ploughed into maintenance and investment then brilliant, otherwise I wouldn't be happy.

Bobby

[05pearcj]

Hi everyone..

I just recently went hour building in US. Flew there for 5 weeks and was some of the best flying I have ever done. Rented a plane from a school (F.A.C.T. Florida Aviation Career Training) in Florida and then took it everywhere, they had no limitations on how long you can take the plane for at once as long as you are flying 3 or more hours a day. Any more than 3 hours a day and we got a 10% discount on the hours. The fuel Rebate we got was also more than where we often filled up... we tried to stick to filling at cheap places, but this also reduced the cost of the flying. It worked out to just under $100 an hour for full IFR GPS planes.
We weren't allowed to take the plane to the bahamas (unless you have quite a few.. think it was 50 IFR hours???) but did fly to vegas with no questons asked.
A couple of my friends went the same time as us and rented from some better known schools and were so messed around. They had restrictions on the times they could take the plane and were constantly having maintenance issues. They paid a bit less in the end but had half as much fun.. so I do think it is worth a good amount of research!

For converting the licence, we sent the form (found on their website) for licence verification to CAA and the form to the FAA (we got confirmation in 6 weeks, but leave 90 days in case) the school did the rest for us and the day we arrived they had organised an FAA examiner to meet us (at the school) to sign the paperwork. We did a quick 1 hour checkout with the school and were off on our trip the next day.

Just a word of advice, if it is an hour building trip.. of course see as much as possible but also try to get as much experience as possible.. it is such a great place to land at international airports (even in small planes) for minimal cost and excellent practice. Also do your long cross country for CPL.

Hope all this helps, if anyone wants more info please feel free to PM me.
Hope all the hour builders have an amazing time!!

[BarryW]

"shopped" around a bit more today

U.S various flying schools and clubs
(I think the lower prices do not include the fuel surcharge, which from what I have read can be anywhere between $10 and $20 per hour)

C150/152 - $56-90
C172(L/N/P) - $79-114
C172R - $129
C172SP - $100-134
C172SP + G1000 - $140

Australian Rates

C152 - $135 USD
C172 - $170 USD

South African Rates
C172(L/N/P) - $150 USD


So it looks like the U.S is definitely the cheapest way to go, accommodation is also reasonable at about $50 a day.


Bobby - If possible could you provide a bit more detail on your trip, sounds interesting. How was the C150 as a touring aircraft, have not flown one before, but being cheaper I would consider doing a conversion to one.
Are they in good condition and reliable, the 150/152 that i have seen all look a bit worse for wear, and generally lack nav equipment,

Anybody else have any experience in doing their hour building in the US

[Airbus Girl]

Hi all. I am now an airline pilot but whilst doing my licences I went hour building in the USA on more than one occasion, and also did some ratings there. I did 200 hours in one month, flying PA28. I have flown west coast to east coast (and back!) and southern California to Canada and back. I can give some tips for anyone who is interested.

Some brief tips:-

1. Make sure you have your aircraft for the whole period you are there, as sole user, and find out what happens if anything breaks whilst away from base. Check you can take the aircraft away for days at a time. I used Air Desert Pacific and they gave me an aircraft just out of check, and they just asked for a phone call every few days to update them on where I was and any problems.
2. Buy a copy of the AOPA airport book - the big fat phone book type one. It lists all the airport facilities, including where you can get free beds for the night (yes, really - Austin Texas was particularly nice, as I recall!!). It can save you lots of cash. Most airports I went to gave me a free car for the overnight stay.
3. Take an alarm clock!! Get up early, fly somewhere, go see some sights, then fly to destination later. (If you have a night rating, so much the better).
4. Become best friends with the guys at 1-800-WX-BRIEF. They are great! They can tell you where you can fly to that is likely to remain VFR for the day. Prepare your route(s) the night before if you can, to save time.
5. Take advantage of the lack of landing fees to get experience at the big airports.
6. You might want to advertise your trip before you go, if you want company. That way you could meet fellow aviators who fancy a week or two away, which will stop you getting quite so bored and also they can share the costs.
7. Be diligent in your daily checks. No one else will be checking the aircraft between your flights and no engineer will glance over it whilst you are away. Be wary and if you unsure about anything, get it checked.
8. Buy a Rand McNally road atlas, so you can plan where you want to go and where you might want to stop and do some sightseeing. Even doing things like flying into Roswell and going into town to the UFO/ Alien museum/ hangar can break up your day!!!

Advantages of hiring from California is that you can do a high altitude check out before you set off. Usually involves a quick trip up to Big Bear. The mountain ranges in the USA are very large, I know, I've seen them from 14,000 feet in a Cherokee!!!! You MUST have respect for mountains and being in the vicinity of mountains, they are unforgiving and they can throw you downwards if they so desire. Read up on mountain flying and conditions before you go if you plan on doing any.

I have also hour built in Florida, including the Bahamas, and I went down Florida to Key West on the earlier 200 hour trip too.

I haven't done much in Canada, only went up to Vancouver and back, but its quite straight forward to do that (or at least it was when I went!!).

[BHenderson]

BarryW,

I hit most of the national parks on the Western side of the US. My route of flight was as follows:

Tues 17th June
LGB-L00-L06-VGT
4.1hrs
Airmet for turbulence. 47°C at L06.

Wed 18th June
VGT-SGU-FOM-DTA-U42
4.5hrs
Fuel diversion from FOM to DTA.

Thurs 19th June
U42-AFO-WYS-7S1-52S-SFF
8.8hrs
Density altitudes 7-8000ft minimum.
Mt. Grand Teton – 13,770ft

Fri 20th June
SFF-2S8-27W-TIW
3.1hrs
Grass landing.

Sat 21st June
TIW-2W3
0.5hrs
Battery failure.
Heavy carburettor ice.

Sun 22nd June
2W3-3B8-CLS-SPB-OTH-MFR
4.5hrs
3B8 - best airport ever.
Alternator Failure.
Transponder Failure. :mad:!!!!

Tues 24th June
MFR-CPU-BFL-(LGB)
5.8 (1.4)hrs
Visibility 3km FU.


I would say that the Cascade mountains and Yellowstone National Park had the best scenery.

Aircraft used was a C150. Engine was in good condition with good compressions. Airframe was a bit tired. Load was myself of 140lbs and my bag 30lbs. Fuel uplifted was enough to next refueling and an additional 45 minutes. Typical climb rate at take off was about 200fpm. Maximum altitude was 11,500ft (thanks to a strong upslope wind). Typical altitudes were nearer 5-8000ft. Navigation equipment was one VOR and an old, out-of-date, LORAN style GPS. Navigation was solely by pilotage and ded. reckoning.

The 150 was comfortable with just myself. Power was awful, but that's why I chose it. I don't think that a 172 has much more grunt in it. I am very comfortable flying with a lack of power. I don't want to be responsible for someone flying themselves into a mountain because they're overweight for the conditions.

I fully agree with all the tips that Airbus Girl has said. Especially planning the route the night before.

Use http://www.skyvector.com (http://www.skyvector.com/) and http://www.airnav.com (http://www.airnav.com/) to help plan the route. These two websites are invaluable.

Here's one of the 500 pictures I took on the trip.

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v285/113/104/508673784/n508673784_652976_7603.jpg

[flaps 15 3 green]

If you live in a 152 you can do it in a week... providing you call up the RAF air to air refueling sqdn and get them to come party.

[BarryW]

If you live in a 152 you can do it in a week... providing you call up the RAF air to air refueling sqdn and get them to come party.

Think the Vne of the 152 might be less that the stall speed of VC10 or L101

Bobby,

Thanks for your trip info.
-How were the maintenance issues handled, did you have to pay upfront and get reimbursed later.
-You seemed to have bad luck with technical issues, one reason I am considering going for a newer a/c 172R or SP


Airbus Girl,

Thanks for the tips, taking a passenger would definitely make the trip more enjoyable - not sure about asking randoms into the cockpit, although it could be interesting.

[potkettleblack]

Search the private flying forum as well. Lots and lots of invaluable information there regarding the US and hour building.

Also make the hour building worthwhile and don't just burn holes in the sky. Coming back with bad habits will inevitably cost you a small fortune to correct when you come back to Europe and pick up your CPL and IR training. Find the schools you want to train with for your professional licences and sit down with them and get loads of tips. Then go armed to the US and practice all that CPL cross country nav stuff and direction finding/position fixing, forced landings, VOR tracking, filling out proper plogs. Be hard on your self and don't accept being out of trim. It will all pay dividends in the end.

Most of all have fun. It was a blast when I did it.

[overclock25]

Hi my friends!

First of all thank a lot for your very helpful comments!!! I am go back home after 2 weeks in mauritius with my girlfriend :O :O :O

Now I'm waiting my licence validation and in next weeks I will go in Florida to start my time builiding hihihihihi!!!! I'm very happy and a little confused because I have to make a choice about rental the aircraft dry or wet....I think that the first is cheapest but I don't know how the fuel and oil costs....

Your experiences??? Please help me!!!!! :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

thank you friends

[Phenom100]

I'm thinking about going to the states in the next 1-2 weeks for hour building and poss looking for a flying buddy, anyone interested?

[overclock25]

Any help?!?!? :O

[ryancy]

overclock25,

if it helps:
http://www.100ll.com (http://www.100ll.com/)
and
http://www.airnav.com/fuel (http://www.airnav.com/fuel/)

[smith]

To be honest and with the benefit of hindsight I don't think I would do hour building in the states again. Yes the flying is fantastic but when you take off time from work, pay for flights, accom blah blah blah it can become an expensive affair. What I tend to do now is just work mon-fri and toddle down to my local flying school when I finish work and I'm in the air for 6pm and have a good 3.5hours flying time available and 2 full days at weekends. Plenty of time to build hours between the clock changes, et voila I'm still getting paid, no accomodation costs above my mortgage, cheap food out of tesco, no airline ticket costs.

Yes the hourly rate and landing fees make the actual flying more expensive, but by being self employed, personally to take two weeks off work is a massive loss of cash for me if I went to the states or elsewhere.

During the summer months the nights are long enough to get plaenty of flyi ng in if there is a local airfield and if the wx is bad, you can just go down the local pub or round to the girlfriends instead.

[overclock25]

Ryancy great informations!! Thanks a lot!!!!

Now I have to calculate how much fuel do I need to fly for 100 hours.

Cessna C152 Fuel consuption is about 6 Gals/h * 100 Hours = 600 Gals

Price is: 600 Gals * 5,5 (average) = 3300 $ = 2210 Euros

Rental dry aircraft is about 4500$
Ok I'm thinking....

P.S. Just for information but if I want to fly here in Eurozone a cessna 152 costs about 120 Euros/h!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Capt. Spock]

It is worth noting that city tax is usually not included in the prices. Which is usually around 5-9%. Also many schools don't mention about the fuel surcharge which makes comparing the prices rather hard. Fuel reimbursement rate for fuel purchased away may also vary which makes a difference on a cross country flight.

I have flown with White Air and Star Bright Aviation in Kansas. Although scenery isn't really spectacular I enjoyed flying there and look going back. Both schools offer accommodation at their airfield.

[nich-av]

4500$ dry is alot of money.As a comparison, a C150 at our place is 60$/hour wet.I can only recommend anyplace in Ohio, we have had uninterrupted flying everyday for the past 21 days.