Unlicensed aircraft engineers requirements

[zafos]

Hello.I'm new here.I found your forum in a research for any information about aircraft engineering.I'm 19 and I'm studying mechanical engineering in a university in my country.I really want to become an aircraft engineer and work for an airline one day.However,I've a question and I want you to tell me If you know anything.Can I find a job as an unlicensed aircraft engineer with a university degree in mechanical engineering?Of course I'll not have any experience in aircraft maintenance and I'm worried If they will take me in the job.Generally where do aircraft engineers begin from?Thanks in advance

[Mr.Brown]

They usually come from recognised apprenticeships or traineeships ie with airlines or MRO's. There are a large number of people studying in colleges/universities, and as how they are getting their experience, well some are asking on here asking how to get unpaid work.

[zafos]

Unpaid??Kidding right?I'm gonna study 5 years to become a mechanical engineer and at the end I'll have to work without getting paid??
So you say that when I get my degree I should continue with an aircraft engineering course which will get me at work and get experience?I heard about Northbrook College.Do you know anything about it?Any other training programm to suggest?I found this StartTechnik - Lufthansa Technik's International Trainee Program: Lufthansa Technik AG (http://www.lufthansa-technik.com/applications/portal/lhtportal/lhtportal.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=Template17&requestednode=452&node=452&action=initial)
the only problem is that they ask for experience in aviation.

[stevef]

Well, zafos, you asked a question and Mr Brown gave you an answer that you obviously didn't like (unpaid work whilst gaining experience). Sorry, but that's the way it is - aircraft engineering isn't most other forms of maintenance. For example, what's your knowledge of wire locking, rod end safety holes, riveting, metalwork, corrosion rectification, correct hardware application etc. All this is basic stuff and it's very likely that engineers with their own tasks to perform can't really spare the time to instruct novices. That's why you're probably not going to get paid.
Maybe your local airfield with light aircraft maintenance companies might be a good place to enquire about gaining experience. You'll start by depanelling, cleaning, servicing spark plugs, changing oil and brake pads & so on and build your knowledge from there.
It's a long road to proper aircraft maintenance and no short cuts, I'm afraid.

[NutLoose]

Zafos as said experience is everything but I certainly would not expect to work for nothing either........

There is possibilities you could pursue when you have your degree such as trying to get into the likes of Rolls Royce or Airbus as a graduate..

EADS N.V. (http://www.eads.net/1024/en/career/jobmarket/jobmarket_search/Search_for_Jobs.html?page=1)

Rolls-Royce: Careers (http://www.rolls-royce.com/careers/uk/university/opportunities/default.jsp)

and from that try and roll it over into the Aviation sector.

I am not up to date on Northwood, there is one at Bristol but that is not supposed to be that good, the other alternate in the UK is this which my Sisters Lad is on at the moment.

Kingston University - Newcastle Aviation Academy (http://www.newcastleaviation.co.uk/)

I hope that helps you.

you can alway try to get in this way too

http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/search.asp search for Grad ( Graduates) and Apprentices

[zafos]

Thanks for the answers.But it's a problem If I'll have to work without getting paid because I'll have to get and one other job in order to live.I'll first try to find a job with a payment but you still didn't answer my first question.I'll have to continue with an aircraft engineering course or I can find the job with just my degree(mechanical engineering)?

[spannersatKL]

Zafos
You havn't even got your 'degree' yet......so don't count your chickens as the saying goes.....why not consider changing course now? The Kingston course will get you to a Part 66 Licence, and give you some experience? And a Degree that can be topped up to Honours as well....may even give you some credit for what you have done so far?

As the others have said there is no short way to the top........I would always employ someone with practical experience and appropriate qualifications over someone who comes with degrees etc.....in this game its the way.

[NutLoose]

Zafos,

I think you are missing the point when they say unpaid, they are not talking 5 days a week, but if you volunteer your services at a local flying school or club or aviation company etc on say a Saturday or Sunday etc whilst you are doing your degree, or do some during your holidays that way you are getting experience that will count when you qualify and go for that all important job, you have much more chance of getting that first break into a company when you qualify if you can say you have done XYZ work on Aircraft and you understand the basic workings of an Aircraft.......

You never know they may even pay you, I know several Airline Pilots that not being able to afford to fly in the beginning volunteered arounds a school, refuelling, cleaning aircraft, moving aircraft and the like in exchange for flying time. they started at the bottom building up experience and hours, even just doing the so called menial jobs like that it is suprising now much you learn, you will have people with the skills and knowledge that will be willing to pass on that knowledge to you. So volunteering at an Aircraft maintenence company you will learn things no course will ever give you, such as common sense and real life practical skills.....

Though saying that the courses tend to be the way to go if you can at some point..... the links to the Jobs I gave you were because some of them advertised offer positions for those with Mechanical degrees, not just Aeronautical ones... and Rolls Royce do a placement scheme through holidays for graduates, so they get to see you and you get to see what they do too...... win win situation :)

DO NOT BE DISHEARTENED, you will get there :ok:

[zafos]

Well the truth is that I can't leave my country to go UK,don't ask why I just can't.But last days I was thinking for another choice.Here we give exams to get to universities and military schools.There are 2 types of military schools about aircraft engineering.The first is university and it would me great to go there but I didn't manage to go there because it's very difficult.The other is a 2 year school in which I can easily go and become an aircraft engineer and of course get to work right after I finish school and get paid.But the problem is that I don't like military although it would be great to work with military aircrafts like F-16,Phantom F-4E,Mirage etc.I wanna ask,If I go there and after the 9 years that I'll have to stay I leave and search a job in civil aviation will they take me?I'll have 9 years experience in the job.And If they take me after how many years can I have the B1 license?

[NutLoose]

In a short answer I would say yes.... BUT I would finish your degree course first as that will open a lot of doors as well as Military experience.... A lot of the problem these days is there is a lack of service personnel that used to come out of the military due to the shrinkage in the Armed Forces. Once upon a time they used to take up all the spare jobs in the Civil market, these days there are none so there is a shortage of skilled engineers.


I was not just talking about UK aviation companies, there must be some in your country you could do the odd day at.

[zafos]

I don't really think that they would take me in military.They prefer those from their military schools.And every year they take about 200 people.I thought about it again.I'm not going to military.I know it would be very easy to go there but I really don't like the military.I prefer civil aviation.So I think I will continue with my course and take my mechanical engineering degree and then search for a job as unlicensed engineer.I found in internet a good site about aviation jobs and I noticed that there is a really huge demand about B1 engineers but I didn't find many places about unlicensed engineers.Do you know If there is any organisation or airline that gets you to work while it trains you for a license?I think Lufthansa Technik is one of them.Generally even unpaid where can I search for a place to start my career?

I have many years to study until I take my degree but I'm from now anxious about my career:rolleyes:

[BAe146s make me cry]

It maybe time for you to contact your country's competent authority.
Contact them, ask for the Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Licensing and Standards office for advice. They hopefully will provide you with accurate up-to-date career path information for Licensed Aircraft Engineers in Greece. If not, report back. There are numerous international options.

BAe146???:{:{:{

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ADDRESS : 1, Vasileos Georgiou Av.
HELLINIKO T.K. 160604

P.O.B : Civil Aviation Authority
70360 16610 Glyfada
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TELEGRAM ADDRESS : AEROPOLIT ATHINAI
TELEFHONE : 210 8916000
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[zafos]

You mean I should ask how can I get my B1 license or where can I work after I take my degree?
Thanks for the links:)

[NutLoose]

yes, the CAA has a guidance document come booklet on going about getting your licences, I should imagine the Greek Authorities have similar.

[BAe146s make me cry]

As Nutloose has mentioned, the UKCAA has this online book. Link below.
Not sure why EASA have not aquired it, modified it to suit all NAAs and rolled it out as their own for proper uniformity? :hmm:

Every EASA NAA is entitled to assess certain qualifications as equivalent
or exceeding the Part 66 syllabus.

ELGD | Personnel Licensing | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=177&pagetype=68&gid=777)

Your degree may provide you with certain exemptions. Under the UKCAA,
there are very few exemptions. The UKCAA keep stating it is up to vocational & full-on academic educational systems (IE: City&Guilds) to approach the UKCAA and spend a lot of £££££ to assess the possible equivalencies. I'm not sure any progress has been made on this. It hasn't helped with the shortage of AML holders that UK EASA Part 145 MRO's need in the UK today gentlemen.

I am hoping that your country's NAA is a little more progressive.
Please provide us with any feedback from your enquiries with Hellas CAA.
I love enlightenment

BAe146??? :{:{:{

[TURIN]

Have a look here AIRMECH (www.airmech.co.uk)

There's a lot of banter and generally people taking the p155, but have a troll around the site. You never know what you will pick up.

PS. I don't know any airline LAEs (B1 or B2) with degrees.

[BAe146s make me cry]

Turin

There are quite a few B1s & B2s going for this one...

BEng(Hons) top-up - Kingston University - Aircraft Engineering (http://www.kingston.ac.uk/aircrafteng/courses/honours.htm)

The B1 and/or B2 AML being equivalent to a 'foundation degree'.
Unfortunately, not the other way round!

BAe146? :{:{:{

[planecrazy.eu]

Just read this and was wondering...

Does any one offer distance learning courses or part time courses to obtain the Part66 in England?

[zafos]

Yeah,I was wondering that too.But obviously you talk about the theoritical part of the 66 license.To get it you should have hands-on experience which is something you can't do in a distance learning course.
I found this http://www.glam.ac.uk/courses/685/96
It's a course for the B1 license which can be done distance learning.Does anyone know anything about this?Is it good?

[Eng AW139]

I'm not sure about the UK but ICS of Canada offers a online AME course that is approved by Transport Canada. Over here in the UAE we have about 6 people taking the course while working in our Company and gaining experience to write there GCAA license.

the course is self paced so it can be done as quickly as you like.

Aircraft Mechanics | ICS Canada (http://www.icslearn.ca/aircraft/index.html)

[zafos]

Things are different in America.If you work and take your license there you can't work in Europe.Or can I convert my license like the pilots do in JAR?Does anyone know?

[planecrazy.eu]

I noticed on the British Airways Graduate website that they take on Mechanical Engineers into the Engineering Graduate Scheme...

So after BEng/MEng or BSc Mech Engineering you can go apply with BA and then get paid for the training... Think they pay £22k, says between 22k and 26k, so i always go for the bottom...

They also have non-graduate schemes too, where you train for a FD and i am sure i read BSc???

Cant find the link again, but will try when i have a little more time,,,

[zafos]

@planecrazy.eu Thanks for the information.I thought only Lufhtansa Technik offers training in graduates.Let us know when the link works again okay?
The training that BA offers is about aircraft maintenance?

[TURIN]

BAe 146s..:{



There are quite a few B1s & B2s going for this one...

BEng(Hons) top-up - Kingston University - Aircraft Engineering

Begs the question, WHY?

Will a degree lead to a higher paid career?

[BAe146s make me cry]

The B2's I know who've acheived it do have plans to move away soon from actual certifying duties... IE Management, Tech services.
I hope they excel in these roles they pursue.

It's a shame because they are extremely good licenced engineers.
Not all licenced engineers are good managers (severe shortage of those).
I do regard the degree as a worthy qualification to have BUT there are quite a few clueless arseholes in seniority out there with them.

Complete basic training, competence, varied experience, the right attitude and good standards are everything in this business. This is enough for most employers (and myself at present). I just need a few more type courses!

BAe146??? :{:{:{

[lenzil]

i've completed my national diploma in aeronautical engineering and i've completed my EASA PART 66 B1 modules at college and i've got my basic training certificate as i've completed my 10 weeks on on job training. but now that i've finished my course, i'm finding it impossible to find a job. most of the airline companies are looking for EXPERIENCED licensed or unlicensed engineers. is it better to go to university to get a degree and then apply for a job. what is the best way to get into the industry? any help will be much appreciated.

[HubNuts]

This is a tricky situation how to get a job without the experience and how do you get the experience without a job, unfortunately there are a shed load of Experienced engineers out there without jobs ,and are looking for work themselves.

You are in direct competition with them, and as it sounds like you have had limited exposure to a commercial operational environment, whether an Airline or MRO you will have to take a different approach, this might mean trying to get some On Job Training with a company,UNPAID WORK, that is.

Not an easy choice for you at the moment during this recession, but if you speak to a few Engineers about how they got into the industry,they will tell you they may have had to do a stint of unpaid work at the begining, as too did i. It's good you have done the hard work studying, now your career starts here, be inventive in marketing yourself too a company, be flexible and open too ideas,no matter how ridiculous they may seem, and most of all, DO NOT GIVE UP, Some people have fought hard for their licence and are fiercly proud of it, so show the same committment, dedication as they have and i am sure if you keep your nose too the grinding stone + a little luck something will come your way.

Good luck

;)

[Bus429]

is it better to go to university to get a degree and then apply for a job. what is the best way to get into the industry? any help will be much appreciated.
The way many old sweats did it: 4 year apprenticeship from age 16 or 17. Move up through the organisation learning from those who know, sit your licences, become an experienced LAE and do your degree years later.

How many 4-year apprenticeships are there these days?:ugh:

[lenzil]

thanks alot for the advice. really appreciate it because i was really confused as to what to do next. but now, its alot clearer. thanks again.

[Dave B]

My old company Bristow Helicopters is actively recruiting trainees for its school in Aberdeen, there have been several national news adverts.
You must obviously be prepared to study in Scotland, and then go anywhere in the world they may like to send you.

[Tranwell]

Newcastle Aviation Academy now offer a way to the B1.1 licence from school leaving age.. They start with 2 years of basic training, collecting National Certificate, NVQ AND City & Guilds qualifications along the way which will help if aviation turns out not to be the final career choice. At this stage there is access to a purpose-built hangar facility with several aircraft types - Piper Aztec, Hunting JP T3 (2 of), BAe Jetstream, BAC 1-11. Very basic aeroplanes which are vertually indestructable.

The second part is the Kingston Affiliated B1.1 course which mixes the B1 modules with a foundation degree. The aircraft here is the Boeing 737-200 AND the ones mentioned previously. 10 weeks OJT is compulsory for the basic training certificate. Mature students can join at this point IF they have relevant qualifications or experience, ie. ex-RAF...

Before there are cries of 'too many engineers and not enough jobs', they start with 100 school leavers and end with about 50 B1's after 4 years. Of those 50, 40 or so will go straight into work - usually paid, but sometimes working for free for a month will open more doors.

Good luck with whatever route is chosen