Instructing in Australia/New Zealand

[Okavango]

Hi. Is there any potential of working in Oz/New Zealand as an Instructor (PPL). Just wondered how easy it was to get the required work visa's etc as I don't think pilots are on there required professions. If possible, I guess the pay situation is as bad as here - or is it worse?

[daria-ox]

That's the information I've been looking for for the past few weeks.
I want to move to Australia at some stage, I fall in love in Sydney :rolleyes: Beatiful city!

I couldn't get any information about instructing there, but there will be no problems with getting the Visa and after 4 years you can apply for a citizenship. That's what I kind of want to do.

But I think instructing here for a year or two, and then start searching for a job in charters and airlines mainly in Australia but New Zealand is as good. If not, I will stay and work in the UK (Instructing/Airlines) depends on what job I'll find and then look for something in Australia, if I will find something good enough I'll probably decide to move. The instructors pay there is the same as here, nothing special. Just instruct/work for airlines in UK/Europe for a while and once you have good experience you can instruct or fly for airlines and millions of other companies in Australia.

[Halfwayback]

Have you both thought of looking in the Dunnunda forums?

You may get a more informative answer if you post there.

HWB

[MartinCh]

Daria,

Just 'lil reality check.
Australia doesn't want any more pilots without any qualifications and experience in jobs they consider eligible for skilled migration.

If you want, you can go on Working Holiday Visa, 1 year work permit for 'youth' until 30 incl, after you turn 18. IF you work in some agriculture job, you can renew it for another year (min 3mth of work first year).

Other than that, you ain't got chance without job in demand. Very unlikely to get sponsored as just a pilot (you'd need some special skills not available in local labour market)

As for instructing, Australian CASA requires more experience than UK or US to instruct. Ie gap between doing CPL and being able to instruct.

All this info is available, guess where? On the internet. Check out CASA, Australian schools with their min reqs for FI ratings or vacancies, check out wikipedia and so on. Not to mention PPRuNe as mentioned already.

It's nice to have ideas or plans, but things aren't always so simple.

check out Department of Immigration and Citizenship (http://www.immi.gov.au) for Occupations in demand, if you don't have '60 point' job or 50 with job offer and in regional Australia, you're not too likely to qualify.

[daria-ox]

My main goal is to become an instructor, when I will be looking at jobs in Australia, I'll have loads of experience because I want to fly in the UK for at least 4/5 years.

[pohlcatt1]

There certainly is jobs for instructors here in Oz. They're not listed as an official shortage, but I know one flying school that has suspended its training operations due to not being able to find an instructor.

[nibbio86]

That thing about worknig holiday visa is correct: I went in a farm for three months and I got it renewed for another year. In this way I am now working legally as a charter pilot and I hope to get sponsored from my company when my current visa expires (don't sweat: still one year to go). About instructing, it depends from the school: I know personally at least one case in which one overseas instructor was sponsored for a 457 visa. In other schools they will laugh if you talk about that, it just depends. Anyway at the moment here there's apparently huge shortage of instructors. If you got the visa, you won't have problems.
Ah, daria-ox: if you are "planning" to come here in 5 years, I would suggest you first to think about getting your "loads of experience"

[daria-ox]

5 years of experience, I'm just doing my PPL and training will take me about 3 yearsss...

[MartinCh]

okavango,
I did notice you started the same topic simultaneously in 'instructors and examiners' and 'Pro pilot studies' forum.

Either you or one of the admins put one of yours here. So now you have two threads in the same sub-forum.

See your other thread here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/337433-flying-instructor-australia-new-zealand.html)
for my last post. All in line with nibbio86's post. He shows you that if you're way below 31 (not more than 30 if applying for second WHV based on 'farm' work during first) you can do some instructing or flying for charter or whatever..

I suggest you merge the threads.

Daria, you obviously want to emigrate. You may find the way when you have few hundred hours and go over on WHV, for sure. As I said in my essay post nextdoor, having some 'skilled' experience makes things easier.
There are pilots who emigrated to OZ using their engineering, trade or accounting quals and experience.

If you're lucky to fly from now on and don't bother with getting any work experience outside flying airplanes, great. If not, you'd have to play about.

Nibbio86,
if it doesn't work out before your WHV's up, remember one can get WHV to NZ as well. Just apply before you're 31 (EDIT, Okavango's age states 34.. useful for someone else.., N86 looks safe in this way). You know the rules, similar to OZ. Also, you can lodge the application from Australia. Not to mention they offer 23 months' WHV for UK citizens, though technically for 12 months of work only.. ALSO VERY EASY TO DO WORK PERMIT AND RESIDENCE COMPARED TO AUSTRALIA. With NZ passport, you can go work in OZ just like that.. :-D

OR, if you really wanna stay in OZ, pay for one of the tech college's diploma in IT, accounting, whatever on 60points skill list, go to school for one or two days a week max (they specialise in this so that students have FT availability for the job they're supposed to do part-time... Hmmm) which would be your day/days off in your flying job. I'm sure your employer won't say no.

After two years of paying for school (and with some skilled experience as they started to demand due to Indians and Chinese abusing the system a bit for residence visa..) you're more likely to ace the residence visa paperwork.
You probably know the stuff anyway, I just keep typing...

[nibbio86]

MartinCh, I knew that in NZ the WHV allows you to work only 3 months with the same employer, is it still like that? I don't think that with only 3 months any company would look at any pilot. Here in Australia thanks to the rule by which you can work up to 6 months with the same employer, but if you get a second WHV you can return to work with that one for a further 6 months I managed to get 12 months of legal work with the same company.
How is the situation in NZ? At the end of my contract if things don't go as I wished I am surely going to relocate somewhere else, and would be interesting to know from you what are the chances for a guy with CPL+NVFR and let's say 500TT with more than 300hrs on Cessna 200 series are.

Thanks mate.

P.S. I am eurpoean but not British

[MartinCh]

officially, yeah, it's 3 months in one job. I don't think you'd get into serious trouble if the employer closed both eyes. The limit there is to encourage WHV makers to travel and help out alleviate seasonal shortages. That's what it's about. not going to Auckland or Sydney and spending all time working in bar..

As for UK citizens, the 3 months in NZ thing isn't even there. So much for equality. Not to mention 23 months (who's going to police if you worked less than 12 months total in two years???, you got work permit, that's what counts) From what I can see on Immigration New Zealand (http://www.immigration.govt.nz) they have special rights. Ditto for WHV makers from Australia in the UK, no limitations anymore, two years straight away.

Even in OZ, it used to be 3 months for 'common people' and Brits and they changed it a bit.

With that hours and time on Stationair etc presume bush experience, you should be sought after in Southern Africa (not SA). You must have seen plenty threads on here.

As for NZ and working as pilot, OK, it's not on 'skilled job in demand', either short or long term. But, in NZ it's not that hard to get temporary work permit. I don't have first hand info on sorting papers with aviation companies, but one guy I talked to on Skype/ICQ went to NZ as a tourist on waiver and organised temp work permit for kitchen porter job, basically. On the spot. Btw, he can't do WHV with his passport.

I'm sure with the hours you could find a job with one of the schools for the starters and then sort work permit. Don't know your CV, but if there's something of a 'value' ie degree, NVQ in trade, skilled experience (and do cross check it with their lists, you never know).

If it doesn't work out and you really want to stay in NZ, I'd get a 'skilled' job on WHV or job offer and if you fit their fairly laidback point system, (check the calculator on the site), you're onshore and in job/w job offer, you can actually sort residence visa. If not work permit would be able, but then if you're tied to non-flying job, it's no good for long.
Once you've got residence visa, you can dump the job and get into aviation.

This or the other thread Okavango started, guys talked about some OZ schools that would do 457 visa sponsoring. Why not try that? Unless you want to go up the ladder.

I AM NOT IN NZ. I'M JUST FOLLOWING THE SITUATION, CHECKING OUT VISA/PERMIT STUFF. ANY IDEAS I GIVE SHOULD BE RESEARCHED ON YOUR OWN.

As for licensing, OZ and NZ in between conversions are not that hard. Plenty info here as well.

[nibbio86]

MartinCh, I was already thinking about heading to Namibia in the worst scenario. As you said I have read posts about bush flying in Africa hundreds of times. Now I'm working as a bush pilot, and keeping doing so wouldn't be bad at all, even if in another continent. I do not have any valuable skill, since my job back home was as a generic labourer, and I am not going to enroll in any kind of uni as I wouldn't be able to be grounded for all that time. Moreover it is kind of expensive!
In the same way, luckily I skept the instructing stage and I ended directly in the left seat, even if of a single engine piston. I've flown for a bit in the right seat and I've asserted that it is not made for me.
Thanks for the informations about NZ and best of luck.

[MartinCh]

'generic labourer'
Hmm. was there any plumbing, bricklaying or electrical installation involved?
Voila, if so, you've got some experience. 'NVQ' as I wrote, is trade qualification in the UK usually. Most of construction trades are 'skilled' in NZ. Even bricklaying. Check it out.

Some of the required trade qualifications require NZ Level 4, which is mostly 2 year trade diploma, UK Level 3 NVQ. I'm not saying you should start a degree just because of securing papers in NZ.

If you fail to secure sponsorship in OZ, head to NZ, see what it's like. If you have some construction experience and get hired, that's starting point. I wrote the rest. Though, having gaps in flying experience doesn't exactly help, but if you can't get anything sorted after few months, start plan B whatever it would be.

Out of 'immigration countries', Canada is one that recognises aviation professionals as skilled persons. Not just engineers, pilots as well. I guess you'd be able to get their version of WHV, it's simple one year open work permit, no max stay in one job, you'd have not too big hassle converting CPL, doing Canadian FI rating and you've got a job with your hours. Once onshore, the work permit isn't that hard either as long as you have job offer.

I guess it's always easier to go from instructing to charter and up higher, than skipping one and then being slightly stuck in limbo. I'm sure you'd find the way. Did you know you don't even have to marry Australian girl (even same sex) to get residence? As long as you two cohabit together or in 'verifiable stable and genuine' relationship, after one year together you can file residence visa and after another year you'd qualify for it if still together. Best of all, it doesn't have to be living on Australian soil. Can be Europe, ME or elsewhere.
I know, not helping you much now.. I toyed with the idea for a while if there was some Asian Aussie citizen girl fond of me.

If you did JAA papers (or if you have them already), instructing would be OK with your hours. Competing for few airline jobs left is better with some real world flying compared to 200-250TT flight school guys. Then, you'd have IR to do as well on top of CPL/ATPL theory.

If nothing else, para dropping/skydiving clubs in the UK use 206/208s and you can do unpaid flying on PPL for them to stay sharp (summer season best). Guys in here say the clubs require more hours and experience than fresh CPL can offer. Some of them use twins, there's few TPs used for dropping as well.

I can't help but to be bit envious. I've got so much to get through ahead. Basically everything and more. Good luck.

[ExSp33db1rd]

NZ won't accept a British Instrument Rating. I brought a fully valid 747 /ATPL but they wanted me to start an Initial NZ Instrument Rating on a twin something. NZ Instrument Rating can be built up bit by bit, i.e, an I.R. that is valid for ADF only, then add VOR / DME approach,then add ILS etc.

I told them to get stuf--d and was given a VFR only CPL -all I needed to fly as a volunteer Coastguard Patrol pilot on a VFR only Cessna 182 anyway, so didn't fight it at my age !

NZ doesn't have Group type ratings, either. Every type has to be individually written on to the licence, no such thing as Single Engine Land, or Mult-Engine Land. When you apply to convert to a NZ licence they will add every type that you can show logbook evidence of, to your initial licence, after that it will cost $100 per type to add. I got a PPL initially ( long story ) and made them add 707 and 747 -just because I could !

Did once ask if I could fly a 747 under microlight rules ('nother long story ) but was told that microlight rules only allow 1 pax. so did I want the co-pilot or Flt. Engineer (I never flew the -400 ) Bureacracy does occasionally have a sense of humour !

Best of luck.

[robbybobby]

Very funny,iv just been offered a non pilot job in NZ, that is a skilled one so i qualify for a "talent" visa. I was doing my PPL in the uk but have decided to nock it on the head until i get to nz as flying is much cheeper(i believe its about $200 against £135+) After 2 years Ill qualify for residence and 5 years citizenship.

I have a long term goal of going all the way to my ATPL, basically get my PPL, build hours and aim to CPL/IR. Step it up in 4 years to nz atpl. its a plan that can work for me but im lucky as I have another job that pays enough and also gives me the time to fly while working.

down side is i think i might have to buy all new theory books again, not sure what they will say about the exams i have to take out there.

Dont suppose this is that much help but while where talking about it just thought id add my 2 cents.:rolleyes: