futhest distance from runway suitable for landing?

[skr80]

I read about the drunk that tried to open the aircraft door whilst airborne.

I was wondering what the furthest distance away from a 'landable' airport was on any route flown if required

I am guessing about 3 hours max? (e.g. mid way over an ocean)

[Leezyjet]

Depends on how many engines the a/c has.

240 mins is the maximum time for ETOPS, (Extended range Twin engine OPerationS) which is the furthest distance they are allowed to fly on 1 engine incase of an engine failure. Although most operators operate to 180 mins.

I don't think there is any limit for 4 engined a/c, although someone may like to correct me on that.

:)

[PAXboy]

Whilst waiting for that question to be answered by a professional, bar in mind that:

The door cannot be opened from the inside.
All cabin crew have the means to physical secure a pax to a seat.Yes, it may be disturbing for other pax but staff and fellow pax will be on top of the person very much more quickly than in previous times.

[parabellum]

Just to enlarge on what PAXboy has said. The door cannot be opened from the inside during pressurised flight. At cruising altitude the pressure differential between the inside of the aircraft and the out side will be in the order of 6.0 to 8.6psi. A door 6feet high and 3feet wide has a surface area of 2592sq.inches so at the lower and of the scale there will be at least 15,552lbs pushing that door closed, i.e. nearly seven tons!
Even an iron man finalist won't be able to open that door!

Once depressurised cabin doors can be opened from the inside.

[yarpos]

"I am guessing about 3 hours max? (e.g. mid way over an ocean)"

you pommies have small oceans dont you? :)

[TightSlot]

As always, Wiki is your friend... :)

Please see HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS) for an understanding of ETOPS (twin engined) restrictions: I'm not aware of any such restrictions on three/four engined a/c, beyond a requirement to comply with the MEL - i.e. everything required for long-range flight must be working and have the required level of back-up systems serviceable.

[Andy_S]

I was wondering what the furthest distance away from a 'landable' airport was on any route flown if required

I am guessing about 3 hours max? (e.g. mid way over an ocean)

I'm not sure whether you're asking in general terms, or regarding a specific commercial route.

If the latter, I believe the furtherest you can fly away from an airport is between Hawaii and Los Angeles, where at the midpoint of the flight you're about 2 1/2 hours away from the nearest airport.

[Pax Vobiscum]

LAN (Chile) flight 801 from Santiago-Auckland is 13 hours nonstop in an Airbus 343, without any sight of land in between. I don't think there are many airports suitable for a heavy jet on the way:) (I'm not sure about Easter Island - it's a long way off the great circle route.)

Perth - Jo'burg (SA281) is almost as far and Kerguelen doesn't look very attractive for a diversion!

[skr80]

hi - thanks for the answers - it was a general query about max distance from any airport on any given route (rather than the regs)

[Andy_S]

Pax Vobiscum,

I have to admit defeat! Both the routes you mention are over four hours, at certain points, from an airfield. I guess what I should have said is that LA-Hawaii is the longest distance between airfields that can be be flown by twin engine aircraft.

[Rainboe]

I think it was a United 777 that had an engine failure on the Aus-US Pacific route and had to fly 308 minutes on one engine. It was at the time of the BA LAX-LHR on 3 episode which set many correspondents on Pprune alight. They appeared to think that was worse than over 5 hours on one engine! Inexpert judgement of risk from some here can be absolutely extraordinary!

[WHBM]

In answer to the original question "furthest from a suitable dversion runway", I believe the Qantas flight from Sydney to Johannesburg has very few options available. It gets much further south than the Perth-Johannesburg flight. Flight time westbound, against the prevailing westerlies, is 14 hours 10 mins. Perth is possibly an option in the first few hours, then its nothing until Durban. Aircraft is a 747. My Great Circle tool is not accurate enough to show if they actually reach Antarctica.

Presumably there have to be very substantial reserves, for example if they lose an engine at the furthest point it would be a long low slow drag indeed.

On the Santiago to Auckland mentioned above, it would be a close contender but they do appear to have Easter Island, Tahiti and Fiji off to the north (maybe by several hours) along the way. On that Qantas flight, there's nothing.

[TopBunk]

My GC mapper (Encarta World Atlas) show the SYDJNB GC track getting as far south as 51 degrees, so well north of the Antarctic ice mass which starts at about 65 degrees South.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Let's not forget the NZ5/6 that flies daily LAX-AKL (6,500 miles) nonstop in a 777 - QANTAS also fly this route using a 330 - that's nearly 3 consecutive maximum ETOPS flights end-to-end.

Some of the (north) polar flights must also get a long way from the nearest 'suitable' airfield. What about the SQ21/22 EWR-SIN? Not much between Quebec and Irkutsk (5,600 miles)!

[Andy_S]

I think it was a United 777 that had an engine failure on the Aus-US Pacific route and had to fly 308 minutes on one engine.

I stand to be corrected, but I believe it was Auckland - Los Angeles, and they flew for 192 minutes on a single engine.

[WHBM]

Let's not forget the NZ5/6 that flies daily LAX-AKL (6,500 miles) nonstop in a 777 - QANTAS also fly this route using a 330 - that's nearly 3 consecutive maximum ETOPS flights end-to-end.

Some of the (north) polar flights must also get a long way from the nearest 'suitable' airfield. What about the SQ21/22 EWR-SIN? Not much between Quebec and Irkutsk (5,600 miles)!
LAX-AKL passes reasonably close to Tahiti at its midpoint. Further north Hilo can be an alternate.

For the North Pole routes Frobisher/Sondrestrom bracket the Great Circle. However in daily practice these flights often seem well to the Alaska side of the Circle, eastbound in particular, which typically come across the North Pacific, Alaska and the Yukon.

I just noticed the Original Poster referred to a pax trying to open the door in the cruise. In the Qantas 747 incident thread it describes a point I was not aware of, that the door handle is tight in flight, but if you really apply extreme pressure to it a deliberate weak-link in the handle mechanism is designed to fracture first, and although the handle turns the door lock will not operate. This is apparently exactly what happened on that flight when the R2 door handle was struck from below, and turned, by part of the oxygen supply system coming up explosively through the floor. And even THEN the door will be held in place by the pressurisation differential. So no sweat in this respect with a nutter on board.

[Rainboe]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe it was Auckland - Los Angeles, and they flew for 192 minutes on a single engine.
You are quite right, I stand corrected! Silly me for staying up all night and then trying to stretch it out another night. It was of course 3 hour ETOPs.

[radeng]

Doesn't ETOPS stand for Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim? Except in the case of UPS, when it's Engines Turn Or Parcels Sink.