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Cyclone733
26th Jul 2008, 14:51
BBC NEWS | UK | Women try to open door mid-flight (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/7527058.stm)

Not sure how recent this is

A plane was forced to make an emergency landing in Germany after two British women tried to open a cabin door mid-flight, police have said.

The women, aged 26 and 27, were drinking heavily
Any chance that we'll ban alcohol on board or that just wishfull thinking?

British women held for emergency landing in Germany (http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2008/07/26/topnews/british-women-held-for-emergency-landing-in-germany.html&template=/news/feeds/story-template-reuters.html)

Dogma
26th Jul 2008, 15:03
which airline?

Ban them for life! End of!

glad rag
26th Jul 2008, 15:11
How much is the cost of a diversion?

yamaha
26th Jul 2008, 15:13
I am sorry for you Brits but slowly losing control of your own society. You are forgetting how one should behave.

I don't say that with any pleasure as the good or even great things from British culture have spread themselves worldwide.

However Knives, alcohol, ASBO's, where will it end?

What a shame to see a true stately country descend to such unruly levels.

olivermbs
26th Jul 2008, 15:13
The airline appears to be Thomson (TOM248A), B738, not sure though (the flightplan took them just south of Frankfurt, so would make sense).

HeathrowAirport
26th Jul 2008, 15:21
XL Airways flight XLA 237 from Kos to Manchester.

Earlier this month a plane full of British tourists, including children, had to make an unscheduled stop in Bermuda after a drunken passenger tried to open the door when the aircraft was 50,000ft over the Atlantic.
Police boarded the First Choice Boeing 767-300 at Bermuda airport and led the man away after he had been abusive to other passengers and cabin crew.


Seriously what **** wrote that? The only Pax plane to go near that was Concorde if i am correct. Does not Include ConcordeSki!

Drunken British women 'attack airline staff with vodka bottle and try to open plane doors' | Mail Online (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1038788/Drunken-British-women-attack-airline-staff-vodka-bottle-try-open-plane-doors.html)


Boeing 737 -900 Also noted by Mail On Sunday to be a similar to 787.

Rainboe
26th Jul 2008, 15:21
I am sorry for you Brits but slowly losing control of your own society. You are forgetting how one should behave.

I don't say that with any pleasure as the good or even great things from British culture have spread themselves worldwide.

However Knives, alcohol, ASBO's, where will it end?

What a shame to see a true stately country descend to such unruly levels.
Yet more idiocy from you. Nobody else in the world gets drunk? Less of your nationalistic nonsense please! I see drunkards in Spain at Fiesta time, I see drunkards all over Europe in the streets. I see drunkards panhandling in the States and Canada. People with drink problems are everywhere- it is becoming a western society problem. You have lost a lot of respect here and now wish to get your own back on Brit Pruners. What a wally of a posting!

Michael SWS
26th Jul 2008, 15:21
I am sorry for you Brits but slowly losing control of your own society. You are forgetting how one should behave.

I don't say that with any pleasure as the good or even great things from British culture have spread themselves worldwide.

However Knives, alcohol, ASBO's, where will it end?

What a shame to see a true stately country descend to such unruly levels.
It's absolutely true, and shocking to those of us who live in the UK as well as those observing from overseas.

There is a small section of British society that is unruly and out of control, and it makes the entire country a less pleasant place in which to live.

Let's hope these two women are slapped with such a fine that they will never be able to afford to get intoxicated again.

Yet more idiocy from you. Nobody else in the world gets drunk? Less of your nationalistic nonsense please! I see drunkards in Spain at Fiesta time, I see drunkards all over Europe in the streets. I see drunkards panhandling in the States and Canada. People with drink problems are everywhere- it is becoming a western society problem. You have lost a lot of respect here and now wish to get your own back on Brit Pruners. What a wally of a posting!
I disagree, Rainboe. What yamaha says is absolutely true

It is nothing to do with drunks on street corners. There is a section of British society that is completely out of control and does not know how to behave in public. Whether it's shouting into mobile phones on public transport or pissing in the street after a night of binge drinking, they are out of control. It's a national embarrassment.

vpaul
26th Jul 2008, 15:24
Some News from BBC Site......






A plane was forced to make an emergency landing in Germany after two British women tried to open a cabin door mid-flight, police have said.
The women, aged 26 and 27, were drinking heavily and had to be held in their seats by security staff until the plane landed in Frankfurt.
They were then arrested, a spokesman for the Frankfurt force said.
The flight was on its way from the Greek island of Kos to Manchester when the incident happened.
The incident happened at an altitude of 10,000 metres, according to Reuters news agency.
Hartmut Scherer, a spokesman for police at Frankfurt International Airport, said the women had become violent with flight attendants over Austria.
The 26-year-old woman is reported to have repeatedly tried to strike a flight attendant with a vodka bottle she had carried with her on the plane after the crew refused to serve the pair any more alcohol.
Reuters said she then tried, unsuccessfully, to unlatch a nearby cabin door.
"She evidently wanted to get some fresh air and tried to open the door, which obviously did not work," Mr Scherer is quoted as saying.
The women face charges of grievous bodily harm and violating air traffic regulations. The plane later flew on to Manchester with a two-hour delay. German media reported that the airline would charge the pair for the cost of the diversion.

411A
26th Jul 2008, 15:26
Let's hope these two women are slapped with such a fine that they will never be able to afford to get intoxicated again.

Forget fines, no matter how large.
Hard jail time is what is needed to curb this nonsense...say 5 years, minimum.

Michael SWS
26th Jul 2008, 15:30
Forget fines, no matter how large.
Hard jail time is what is needed to curb this nonsense...say 5 years, minimum.Prison is not the answer. There are already too many people in our prisons, and locking up two more at public expense will not help.

If the airline were to charge them the full cost of the diversion it would be just as much of a deterrent as being banged up, and would cost us all a great deal less.

rubik101
26th Jul 2008, 15:32
Sadly, alcohol will never be banned as it raises too much revenue. Stopping on board sales will only cause more people to open the booze they have bought in the airport shop.

A few drops of opiate in their G&T might help.

Rainboe, you have it wrong, I'm afraid. The drunks you saw on your travels around Europe would almost certainly be Brits. Having lived in Berlin, Corfu and Palma for a few years each, I can say that local folks who had taken too much drink would perhaps be seen on the street during festivals. Out and out drunks, wasted, drunk, staggering, rowdy drunk, on a regular basis, week in, week out, as is the case here in UK, is very, very rare.

I have no experience of the USA so cannot comment.

qwertyplop
26th Jul 2008, 15:38
Sitting on the fence - does cabin crew have some questions to answer here? OK - they may have boarded the flight with the grog but should this have been picked up before it became an issue?

And why do they serve folks who are clearly incapable of taking the drink? I was behind someone the other day as SLF who was barely capable of getting off the aircraft and yet was served grog throughout the flight.

He kicked off at passport control and was dealt with expeditiously by the passport control officers with the help of the police.

Could easily have been avoided though. Airlines just want to make an extra quid or two I hear you cry - but they've lost out here with their divert.

Can of worms?

Phil1980's
26th Jul 2008, 15:41
You say Prison would be at "public expense" but they are probably scrounging off the Dole anyway...and that guy who is about britain being stately...well two things...one I hate Yobs and two I hate Snobs...I don't like the class system as it is...so people snubbing others is wrong...I am however not wanting to live in England for both of the Snobs and Yobs reasons...Thankyou :)
And erm...tell that woman that you are also not allowed to smoke outside the plane especially when it's inflight luv! :p

pineridge
26th Jul 2008, 16:14
Michael SWS said......

" it's shouting into mobile phones on public transport or pissing in the street after a night of binge drinking,"


That`s S.O.P.`s here in the frozen North, old thing.

glhcarl
26th Jul 2008, 16:18
There is a section of British society that is completely out of control and does not know how to behave in public.

I am sad to say the the UK is not alone with this problem!

Rainboe
26th Jul 2008, 16:23
I think some of you are not very 'worldy'. Inebriation is very much a world problem. My impression is there is far too much drinking, but everyone is doing it. I take my delight in seeing objectionable people doing it as shortening their lives....significantly. But we need no pious lectures on how the UK is going to the dogs. Some of the worst drunkenness and vandalism I have seen myself has been in Australia. It doesn't mean the country is going down the tubes, just that people like a drink. But some of you think it an excuse for self-flagellation. We have a problem.....like everyone else has.

Panic button 99
26th Jul 2008, 16:25
XL Airways

BBC NEWS | UK | Women try to open door mid-flight (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7527058.stm)

Nashers
26th Jul 2008, 16:32
http://www.pprune.org/forums/rumours-news/336685-women-try-open-door-mid-flight.html

llondel
26th Jul 2008, 16:43
Rainboe is correct, it happens pretty much anywhere in Western society. What is different is the local perception and reporting of the events. The mainstream British press is outraged when one of its citizens does something bad, whereas other countries may have different tolerance levels. I remember in the days when football hooligans were more prevalent, it was pointed out that after an Italian match, the fans ran down a street breaking a few windows and doing other unpleasant things and it wasn't really mentioned in the Italian press because it was normal 'high spirits'. Had it happened in the UK, the media would have been all over it for disgraceful behaviour.

Yes, charge them for the full cost of the diversion and ban them from flying for several years.

Jonny Foreigner
26th Jul 2008, 16:45
Branding a nation as a result of the actions of two individuals is alittle harsh.:=
Not everyone in the UK has forgotton how to behave in public you know. Yes the country has its social problems, what country does'nt?
To the point, serving alcohol to perceptibly intoxicated people can potentially compromise the licence to serve alcohol (in the UK anyway). Perhaps we are in need of a clearer set of rules in this matter and a strict application of them on aircraft?

Cyclone733
26th Jul 2008, 16:58
How about an Ad campaign naming and shaming to highlight the issue? (or is that against their human rights?)

sispanys ria
26th Jul 2008, 17:02
Well we recently had similar situation here in Dubai when that drunk UK guy triggered the bomb alert. Same when this other drunk British couple was ******* on the public beach and started insulting the policemen coming to stop them. Sadly, few days before that, a young drunk British jumped out of his balcony following an argument with his girlfriend. Few month ago, 2 drunk British guys came here for a wedding party and decided to try some drunk jetski driving. One lost his life. These are few stories around me here, but it's a really sad waste. Not only for those gents, but also for the reputation of their fellow citizens. This can only lead to more restricting rules in this Muslim country which would have to be assumed by everybody, including sober people.
I remember my participations at the RIATs as quite intoxicated days :\ but what a fun ! (at least it wasn't public disturbance...)

DenhamPPL
26th Jul 2008, 17:04
Was the food THAT bad?

Jamesair
26th Jul 2008, 17:07
I agree with "Michael SWS".

Charge them with the cost of the diversion....doubt whether they will do it again.

Airbubba
26th Jul 2008, 17:21
Public drunkenness is a lot less acceptable in the U.S. than it was a couple of decades ago. Office parties now are often alcohol-free due to liabilty issues and the threat of sexual harassment lawsuits.

Flight crews are monitored with random breath tests and hotel staff are know to report a late stay in the bar to the company these days. Times have changed.

Like many other trends, I predict this change of attitude will eventually filter over to the UK.

There does seem to be some awareness of the problem in recent press items:

Why are so many people drinking themselves into hospital? - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/yourview/2439954/Why-are-so-many-people-drinking-themselves-into-hospital.html)

A quarter of adults drinks excessively as doctors warn of 'tsunami of alcohol-related harm'| News | This is London (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23519057-details/A+quarter+of+adults+drinks+excessively+as+doctors+warn+of+'t sunami+of+alcohol-related+harm'/article.do)

Nurses told to cut down on drinking - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2460303/Nurses-told-to-cut-down-on-drinking.html)

Alcohol industry may face binge-drinking curbs | UK | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKL2298826620080722)

chiglet
26th Jul 2008, 17:25
The women, aged 26 and 27, were drinking heavily and had to be held in their seats by security staff until the plane landed in Frankfurt.

Whos security staff exactly?
watp,iktch

green granite
26th Jul 2008, 17:27
Most of the problem stems from the namby pamby attitude of the authorities.
30 years ago anyone being rowdy and behaving unacceptably after drinking was arrested, kept in the cells overnight and appeared in front of the Magistrates the next morning charged with being drunk and disorderly. perhaps it's about time we started doing that again.

Rainboe
26th Jul 2008, 17:31
And the Labour government response is: make 24 hour drinking available! It doesn't help those with a bad habit try and kick it, does it?

411A
26th Jul 2008, 18:02
Prison is not the answer. There are already too many people in our prisons, and locking up two more at public expense will not help.



Sorry, beg to differ.
Lets look at Maricopa county Arizona (greater Phoenix) and the elected Sheriff here, Joe Arpio...the 'meanest' sheriff in America.

The law.
Arrested once for DUI, go to jail, directly to jail, for a minimum of twenty four hours, followed by...a minimum of thirty days for conviction.

In the airplane, behaving badly because of far too many vodka/tonics...seems to me, hard jail time is necessary.

Going back to the meanest sheriff in America, Sheriff Joe...DUI's have decreased by forty percent.

Hello?
Seems to be working.:ok:

SPIT
26th Jul 2008, 18:08
Why is it (mainly SOME british, "to my eternal shame") whenever they seem to have an excess of alcoholic drink on flights do they HAVE TO MAKE PRAT'S OF THEMSELVES ??? :confused::mad::mad:

barit1
26th Jul 2008, 18:11
This guy (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=13192&key=0) escaped prosecution, because they never found him. :}

bjcc
26th Jul 2008, 18:12
Nothing new in this, nor is it confined to Brits.

There was a noticable increase in the number of drunks on aircraft after smoking was banned on flights, and that increase was all nationalities. It was a daily occurance for us to be called to an arriving aircraft with a drunk aboard. Occationally they had drunk what they had bought duty free, but more often it was supplied by the crew.

A question we often asked was, why the crew kept pouring drink for people, the answer was, it kept them calm, which may well be true, but hardly makes the problem go away.

Airlines at LHR used to be fairly hot on not letting people aboard who'd been drinking to the extent they were either, or close to drunk.

The consolation in the case of these 2 women, is that the aircraft landed in Germany, and they are therefore subject to German law. If they get a prison sentence, then they serve it in a German, not UK prison.

crewmeal
26th Jul 2008, 18:27
For once I agree with 411A and certainly with what rainbow says, until the punishment fits the crime the UK will be awash with crime because there is no proper deterrent and there never will be until some government realises there has to be proper law and order in the UK.

These women should be banned for life from flying, nothing less. Make them pay for the diversion plus costs, don't bother sending them to jail just ban them for life. No half measures or time off for good behaviour. No human rights issues here either.

yamaha
26th Jul 2008, 18:49
yes there are drunks all over the world but the situation turns violent much quicker in the UK. Furthermore I have never witnessed such appalling behaviour from drunk young women anywhere else other than the UK.

24 Hour drinking has also been in operation in many other countries for many years. The reality even if you can't face up to it bungy is that the UK is struggling to both recognize and deal with the problem. And we are talking about a social problem and not alcoholism.

In Europe families were always welcome in beer gardens, street cafe's etc. and alcohol wasn't an issue around children. I don't know but I wonder if this has something to do with it.

djms
26th Jul 2008, 19:00
i know the crew personally and ALL of them are extremely capable of dealing with the abusive, ignorant passengers that unfortunately these days pay our wages. and force is always the last option as genuine aircrew will know. if this crew were put in a position where they felt unable to control the scum we have to deal with on a daily basis who think they are above and outside the law then I applaud them for the action they took.
not just for them but for the 99% of the rest of the pax who were also present.

dazdaz
26th Jul 2008, 19:03
Yamah

How true "In Europe families were always welcome in beer gardens, street cafe's etc. and alcohol wasn't an issue around children. I don't know but I wonder if this has something to do with it."

Seems today UK, mum and dad go to the pub but leave the little 'bastards' (English, for a child born out of wedlock) to roam the streets.

Rainboe
26th Jul 2008, 19:03
In Europe families were always welcome in beer gardens, street cafe's etc. and alcohol wasn't an issue around children.
Do you really believe encouraging children around alcohol consumption is the answer?
Furthermore I have never witnessed such appalling behaviour from drunk young women anywhere else other than the UK.
....means even drunk, they still say 'No'! No wonder.
yes there are drunks all over the world but the situation turns violent much quicker in the UK
Personally, I have witnessed more drunken fights in San Francisco than Britain. The problem is the same everywhere, except Russia where it's the worst. The perception of the Brit middle class is that Brits should not behave like that- it is our astonishment that we have an enormous class that does. Let's face it, at least half the people out there, whatever nationality, have a drink problem. But if you want to finger wag against the Brits, go ahead....they'll still say 'No!'

Edward Mitchell
26th Jul 2008, 19:19
Yamaha, you are so right. As an Englishman living in South Africa since the early 80's, I have seen a marked decline in Law and Order in England, and can only assume this is due to a) massive immigration, and b) a left-wing, pinko-liberal Nanny State.

We've certainly got problems aplenty here in South Africa, but moving back to England is simply not an option, the British society having descended into a stat of mild anarchy in the last 10 years or so.

We need someone like Maggie Thatcher to lead Britain back to Greatness.

And after she's finished there, she could sort out South Africa...

Touchin' Down
26th Jul 2008, 19:22
Not saying it would be the case here, but like is so often the case if they are ordered to pay, no doubt they won't be able to afford it! See this so often in road fines, court fines etc in that it just becomes a joke. No doubt they will just end up having to pay a penny a week for the next million years, while quietly laughing beneath their breath as they down 10 pints in the pub smoking a pack a day!

maybe I'm wrong......

White Knight
26th Jul 2008, 19:36
Whoever said to fine them the cost of the diversion must have his head up some dark tunnel... These are people who buy a holiday with benefit money and live in council houses... They wouldn't be made to pay.
Better to give 'em hard jail time (without the luxury of tv, dvd, pool table and all that namby pamby human rights bs), then put 'em in a chain gang and get them breaking rocks or sewing mail bags.....
Also bring back NATIONAL SERVICE - keep the chavs off the streets...

I feel better now...

As for banning alcohol - that would really tick me off. I do like a glass of DP when I go somewhere, washed down with a chilled ale:ok:

Rainboe
26th Jul 2008, 19:37
Yamaha, you are so right. As an Englishman living in South Africa since the early 80's, I have seen a marked decline in Law and Order in England,
So you think you are better off in SA? If not, what are you doing there? Is a bit of sunshine worth that? Let's face it, we think Brits are so bad because we see more of them on aeroplanes and holidays than most others. We have people who get aggressive, so does everyone else, but they'll don the uniform and be marching up the roads in Helmand another time. We might be more aggressive, but we also appear to be the ones not to shirk international duty like these more 'peaceful' countries. Let's not forget, the football fans throw grenades at policemen in Italy. German fans are quite positive in their support for their team. Our female fans are quite positive in their support for Murray and Nadal! You have to learn when to step out of the way.

Edward Mitchell
26th Jul 2008, 19:41
Thanks for the response, Rainbow.

And your point is ....?

Blacksheep
26th Jul 2008, 19:43
Making people pay compensation for the results of their actions (or those of their children under the age of eighteen) might restore a sense of responsibility.

Atishoo
26th Jul 2008, 19:46
I agree with Edward Mitchels post.

Too many open borders, and a mamby pamby law system that needs a massive shake up.

Far too many "do gooders" in this country. I wish we could be a bit more like a country like Dubai. Although there has been some recent trouble over there, generally its a safe place because their people are WAY too scared to step out of line for the consequences are not good ones.

ajamieson
26th Jul 2008, 19:49
but should this have been picked up before it became an issue?
Completely agree. One wonders what role was played by the ground staff. Like some others on this thread, I've lost count of the occasions I have seen very drunk passengers at the gate allowed on the aircraft where it was far from clear if the flight deck or cabin crew had been consulted.

Part of the problem is most ground staff these days work for a third party, earn a pittance, have limited training and face a direct disincentive sorting out problem passengers (because they'll end up having to deal with them long after the flight has gone).

NotPilotAtALL
26th Jul 2008, 19:54
Hi,

Simply put the sign "Toilets" on the right door will solve the problem .....

Cheers.

SXB
26th Jul 2008, 20:05
Anyone who thinks Britain is spiralling towards anarchy clearly doesn't travel very much, or maybe they read the Daily Mail.... Also, and not wanting to point the finger, did someone resident in South Africa really have the gall to criticise law and order in the UK ?

Parapunter
26th Jul 2008, 20:50
Yamaha makes enormous generalisations about a race of people, Rainboe bites for a change. Let them get on with it. Airlines peddle booze for profit & from time to time it gets out of hand. It's the cost of doing business, sad as that may be, it's nonetheless the truth.

Rainboe
26th Jul 2008, 22:09
I hate drunks. I hardly drink, and when your company or friends get drunk, you might as well leave them, you will not get any sense anymore that night. Once we checked in for a JNB-LHR flight to have the groundstaff asking about a drunk on an Air Rhodesia flight from Harare connecting with us. 'He punched a stewardess in the face...will you take him?'....er no. Another earnest drunk businessman desperate to travel from Madrid to Gatwick' because his father had died, and I promise I will be no trouble'. I took him against the wishes of the cabin crew. Airborne he 'forgot' about his father, who had not died, opened his own duty free and got further smashed, then got objectionable about 'why am I going to Gatwick?- I want to go to Amsterdam anyway'.

I just have no patience with them now. For something that makes you an idiot and socially boring, why do people pay those prices? Sitting hitting yourself on the head until you go stupid must be a lot cheaper.

rottenray
26th Jul 2008, 22:37
Folks,

A couple of you have written "I hate drunks," a few others have suggested banning alcohol on flights.

It's not the juice, it's the person drinking it. Many of my friends are people who, quite honestly, are a lot of fun to tie one on with.


The REAL problem is that for the last half-generation, popular entertainment on the web, television, and home media has become pure garbage.


I'm talking about all the reality shows, all the "Jackass" DVDs and their imitators, and the goofs who imitate that and post it on YouTube.

Watching 2 or 3 hours of this tripe leaves you with the impression that being rude, stupid and dangerous is desirable. Watching 2 - 3 hours a day for the last 8 years of your life could probably affect the way you perceive how your actions affect others.

We're seeing adults who were in their mid to late teens when this trend started, and older adults who imitate them, and this kind of behavior is the result.

The only difference is that there isn't a dramatic narration and canned laughter to go along with the idiotic stunts people try to get away with...

Parapunter
26th Jul 2008, 22:41
It is nevertheless an uncomfortable truth that the business, for it is a business that you serve peddles the stuff to it's punters and that on occasion a rumpus erupts as a direct result, culminating in diverts, scared pax, incurred costs & police involvement. Whether you like drunks or not is neither here nor there, unless of course you invoke your conscience & cease complicity with the whole thing. Thought not.

Naah, Im just sh**ting ya, but Rainboe, you can be such a commander squeaky pants on here, that you deserve a bullet or two from time to time! Cheers hic!

rhythm method
26th Jul 2008, 22:53
Women try to open door mid-flight - MSN News UK - news & weather (http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=9025196)

I thought I would post this link to the MSN report on the incident. I was particularly impressed with the photograph of the aircraft in the article... perhaps that was the transport that the 2 drunken bints were flown home in! :}

Avitor
26th Jul 2008, 22:59
It's no good hanging damages and costs on them, chavs like them do not pay. Flag them up as not fit for air travel.

Roadster280
26th Jul 2008, 23:41
Fine or Jail?

How about the court ordering them to pay the cost incurred by XL, and the other pax with missed transport, connections (if any), hotel bills, the costs of the Polizei, repatriation etc etc. This should restore a balance of fairness.

Then jail them by way of punishment. Just a year or two, no need to go to town on them, just enough to be a meaningful punishment and a deterrent.

Load Toad
27th Jul 2008, 04:13
The incident was two people getting very drunk and then abusive and aggressive and endangering the 'plane and / or passengers and crew.

And the thread degenerates into debates about alcohol and whose nation is the bestest.

You then all get angry and throw accusations around and stamp your little feet and rant and go on showing no respect for other contributors of the thread and exhibit the same ignorance, disregard for others and sometimes aggression that the two drunks did. Are you all drunk too?

Which is amusing.

By the way - did any of you get to choose on which part of the planet you were born on and with regard to the laws / culture of each of your nations how much did you / do you contribute to them and how well do you represent the identity of these nations you are so proud or appalled by?

Rollingthunder
27th Jul 2008, 04:36
Perhaps it is not a question of representing a National identity. I am a Canadian of British origin but I don't lead my life according to some National precept.

The biggest influences for good behaviour and manners are parents and teachers no matter the nationality.

Of course there are bad parents and bad teachers and children who grow up not caring one iota.

These two idiots should pay reparations and serve some time in prison. It is a way to learn the consequences of uncivilized, selfish and dangerous behaviour.

NVpilot
27th Jul 2008, 04:55
I took him against the wishes of the cabin crewThat certainly opens yourself up to liability, from my experience, disorderly drinkers never get more behaved after climbing to 8000 Ft cabin altitude, I personally go out of my way to back them up, others may disagree.

Bern Oulli
27th Jul 2008, 07:44
What a pity that, for various boring technical reasons, it was not possible to say "You want some fresh air? Be my guest, step this way ladies". Sorted.

radeng
27th Jul 2008, 09:02
How about an airlock arrangement so that they can get out? No diversion, no more problems with them!

jetset lady
27th Jul 2008, 12:08
To a certain extent, I've got to back rainboe here. It's all very well saying you should never let them on board in the first place, but in reality, it's not that simple. Sometimes you have to make a judgement call and being only human, that judgement will occasionally turn out to have been wrong.

I've often had people board who have seemed perfectly rational, only for it to become obvious later, that they have been drinking. During boarding, we have approximately 5 seconds to make that judgement and quite often, it's the one drink you then give them on board, that will tip them over the edge. Having determined that that person is now drunk, you then have the joy of telling them they can't have any more alcohol. It's not like in a bar where the bouncer can kick them out if they get rowdy. You have to control the situation as best as you can. I recently operated a flight in exactly those circumstances and spent a large portion of it explaining to a gentleman, why I was not going to serve him any more alcohol. He claimed it was not my place to tell him when he had had enough and as a business class passenger, he did not have to listen to a mere "trolly dolly"! He did, however, see sense in the end! Not sure whether it was the thought of what his company would say, or a prospect of a night in the cells that did it! :E

Then there's the other end of the scale. I operated a flight to Italy that should have been a normal everyday flight. It would have been, if it hadn't been for the fact that a certain large football club was playing a European Cup match there the next day. I would say 98% of the passengers had been drinking. Now, following the rules to the letter, I should have offloaded all 98%. Can you imagine the headlines the next day and all the interviews with the poor little people who "weren't drunk guv, honest" that didn't get to see the match? Headlines shouldn't matter but just take a scroll through some of the threads on here. The crew who refused to operate a flight due to the hostility of the passengers. Another one, that I think was on this part of the forum, from a guy who wanted compensation for being offloaded because the crew said his mates were drunk and he said they weren't.

I suppose, what I'm trying to say is that, all the while people are allowed to drink in airports and on aircraft, we have to play a very tricky balancing game. In my case, I'm lucky as I work for an airline with very good dispatchers and supportive flight crew who will invariably back us. We also have a policy at our airline that, on the ground when the doors are still open, the senior cabin crew member has the finally say when it comes to offloading potentially disruptive passengers. Others aren't so lucky and have to do the best they can under immense pressure. It's not ideal for any of us, but we have to work with what we've got! The world does not run in black and white.

Jsl

Willows
27th Jul 2008, 12:40
This is just dumbfounding behaviour. :* There must be something mentally wrong with these people to attempt something so idiotic, never mind the alcohol. Shocking ...

Just out of curiosity, how are the aircraft doors actually secured when in flight? I'm guessing it is pretty much impossible to open them?

jetset lady
27th Jul 2008, 12:53
Willows,

They're secured by the normal means but also, by the pressure difference inside and outside of the aircraft. There's a more in depth explanation somewhere, either in this thread or the one running on the pilots rumour network but in answer to your question, no, you can't open the door in flight.

Hope that helps

Jsl

crewmeal
27th Jul 2008, 18:50
Take their passports off them forever! After all a passport is the property of the Government.

Romeo India Xray
28th Jul 2008, 07:24
Rainboe, from my experience I think your view of this as a global problem is wrong. I moved from the UK to Latvia (I believe the country with the worst rate of alcaholism in Europe). Yes, the alcaholism is a HUGE problem, but the protagonists are NOT.

Local people here (speaking of the majority) will get pi:mad:d to the hilt, but just stagger home, not cause any problems to anyone and generally conduct themselves in a non-confrontational way.

On the other hand FR bring in countless stag parties each weekend, mostly Brits and around half of whom fail to conduct themselves with the slightest decorum whatsoever.

I use FR to go visit relatives and there are invariably one or two groups of Brits who are drunk, being noisy and generally disruptive (remember the kids at the back of the class in school). When these are one or two groups of 15 guys, that totals 30 PAX being complete a:mad:holes. I know of NO instances of Latvians mis-behaving on-board.

I remember a time when I was proud to be British, now I resent it.

yamaha
28th Jul 2008, 07:41
Whatever your view on the problem and the best form of punishment, respect to the cabin crew who have to deal with these idiots.

radeng
28th Jul 2008, 08:14
If they try this in the US, is there not a fair chance of a sky marshal stopping them - permanently? Could be good approach here.

reynoldsno1
29th Jul 2008, 00:07
Let's hope these two women are slapped with such a fine that they will never be able to afford to get intoxicated again.
Seems as though they got a free stopover in Frankfurt before heading home...

There must be something mentally wrong with these people to attempt something so idiotic
it's called ignorance ... overheard on a London bus some years ago, and it is verbatim...

Woman 1 - 'where you bin then?'
Woman 2 - 'bin on 'oliday, ain't I?'
Woman 1 - 'where you go, then?'
Woman 2 - 'went to Bennydorm, didn't I?'
Woman 1 - 'where's that, then? In Spain, innit?'
Woman 2 - 'dunno, we flew there, didn't we?'

Just as remarkable was that there whole "conversation" was a series of unbroken questions - make a good TV game show :8

Rainboe
31st Jul 2008, 13:32
There are a couple of big problems in applying the punishment we would all like to see to such irresponsible nauseating people. They are: that the airline supplied them with at least some drinks, therefore these individuals are not fully to blame. They can even rely on 'someone spiked me drink, Guv!' The other reason is 'why should I pay for the diversion Guv? I didn't ask to go to Frankfurt! There was no need to take me there because I was restrained at the time and my sleeping pills/sedatives (because i have nerves flying Guv) mixed badly with the alcohol the cabin crew gave me!'

Faced with that, no prosecution can win, and that is why these scrotes will always get away Scot-free. Unfortunately there seems to be more and more of this irresponsible behaviour. Hate to say it, but flying has become too cheap, and that is why we can ship people for stag weekends to Lithuania/Prague/Vienna where they proceed to get totally blotted.