'Renegade' controllers leave pilots flying blind: air chief

[desmotronic]

The Age July 26, 2008
A GROUP of "renegade" air traffic controllers in Melbourne and Brisbane are deliberately closing air space, leaving pilots to fend for themselves on some of the nation's busiest air routes, according to the head of the agency that manages Australia's skies.

The chief executive of Airservices Australia, Greg Russell, said it appeared a massive increase in incidents in which air space sectors had suddenly been left with no air traffic control was linked to an industrial campaign for big wage rises.

Mr Russell said he did not believe the campaign was authorised by the air traffic controllers' union, Civil Air, and he did not believe most controllers were part of it.

"I do think there are a small number of renegades who are involved in this activity," he said.

There were only seven incidents in which control of air space sectors had been interrupted in the 22 months between January 2006 and October 2007, rising to a whopping 135 in the eight months since, he said.

The union's executive secretary, Peter McGuane, emphatically denied any campaign, accusing Airservices of "desperate spin-doctoring".

"There is an acknowledged shortage of air traffic controllers, there is no campaign and our people are sick of being harassed to work on their days off," Mr McGuane said.

In many of the incidents, air traffic controllers in Melbourne and Brisbane have suddenly declared themselves sick and when their colleagues have been contacted in an effort to find replacements, no one has been available.

Air traffic controllers won the right to unlimited sick leave in the 1990s and are required to give only two hours' notice of their unavailability to work. The rate of absenteeism among air traffic controllers is an average of more than 15 days a year - about three times the national average.

The federal Minister for Transport, Anthony Albanese, also made plain this week he was convinced the rate of uncontrolled air space was linked to the air traffic controllers' industrial campaign.

"It is a fact that Civil Air, the air traffic control union, is engaged in industrial negotiation at the moment over a wages agreement," Mr Albanese told Brisbane radio 4BC. "At the same time, there appears to be a situation whereby you've had a number of people not turning up for work in order to create a situation which causes some difficulty."

Many industry figures point to an anonymous blog circulated on the internet last November - just as the incidence of uncontrolled air space shot from one to 21 occurrences in a month - that exhorted air traffic controllers to refuse to relieve colleagues who had reported sick.

The blog said the Government would only react to public pressure and media interest, which would only be gained when airline schedules were disrupted or air space was closed.

"Turn off your phone; don't answer unknown phone numbers; if you are contacted advise you have a 'family commitment', 'have had a drink', are 'too tired' or simply 'unavailable'," the blog advised.

Mr Russell has refused until now to criticise air traffic controllers or to link their industrial campaign to the spike in uncontrolled sectors.

However, the controllers' certified industrial agreement expires on December 21 and while their union has not yet made a formal log of claims, it has issued a "vision statement" that calls for pay rises ranging from about 30% to 64%.

Mr Russell said such figures were clearly not realistic when Qantas long-haul pilots had received a 3% rise, private sector wage outcomes were about 3.8% and the public sector was receiving rises of about 4.2%.

He also pointed to the cost to airlines, which pay Airservices Australia to manage the skies on behalf of the Federal Government.

Most Australian domestic airlines refuse to fly through uncontrolled air space, meaning that at a time when fuel costs are cutting deeply into profits, the requirement to fly around black areas causes immense financial pain.

A regular passenger jet such as a Boeing 737 flying from Melbourne to Sydney requires an extra two tonnes of aviation fuel to fly around what is known as the Canberra sector if it is closed - a broad area between Canberra and Sydney's southern suburbs. With aviation fuel at $1.90 a litre, this equates to an extra $3800 for the journey.

Many international airlines flying in to Australia from Asia have had no choice but to fly through uncontrolled space because they were already in the air when control closed down.

In one incident last month, the entire northern approach to Australia from Queensland to Darwin was uncontrolled after three air traffic controllers in Brisbane called in sick. Fourteen of their colleagues were called in an effort to find replacements, but all were unavailable or uncontactable. The result was that dozens of airliners carrying thousands of passengers had to rely on pilots advising each other of their positions with no assistance from the ground.

Despite claims by the union that the problem was caused by a big shortage of controllers, the figures provided by Airservices Australia show the average number of controllers has not changed significantly over the past three years.

The union claims the system is 100 controllers short. Mr Russell concedes a shortage of 17, but believes the problem will be overcome within a month.

[Marauder]

TIBA has got worse lately because of the acceleration in retirements.

These retirements have not suddenly occurred but most have been planned for over 10 years. i.e. A controller at say age 45 decides that he will have had enough by age 55.

From the outside looking in, it appears to me that ASA management has failed to recruit adequately to cover even planned retirements, let alone the “defections” to more lucrative overseas posts.

A suggestion to make TIBA less palatable for ASA managers is to impose a substantial monetary fine on their collective bonuses every time a TIBA occurs, I suggest that instead of the spin doctoring and posturing that is currently occurring, a solution may become closer to hand.


As an aside to working on days off, whilst I can’t quote the precise reg/s (which I am sure are similar to those applicable to pilots), it is an offence to attend or attempt to attend duty, whilst fatigued, stressed etc, More importantly it is an offence under the Commonwealth Crimes act, to coerce or attempt to coerce a person to break any regulation, therefore if an ASA manager attempts to “pressure” a person to attend work outside of their rostered shift, they are committing a criminal offence, and should be subject to the full force of the law.


:ok:

[aussiegal]

"In one incident last month, the entire northern approach to Australia from Queensland to Darwin was uncontrolled after three air traffic controllers in Brisbane called in sick. Fourteen of their colleagues were called in an effort to find replacements, but all were unavailable or uncontactable."

An informal look at the staffing sheet for that day .... 6 of those 14 people where actually in the middle of their annual leave (a roster anomaly that shows people as being rostered off rather than on leave), others were off the night shift (i.e. had finished work at 6am that morning, one of whom allegedly wasn't called), others were not "rated" or "licensed" to do all of those sectors, so out of 14 you probably really only have 4 possible calls.

More spin from the spindoctors.

[Starts with P]

Lets not forget the Voluntary Redundancy that was offered due to the restructure. Who could believe that when the staffing is so bad, ASA would allow a restructure to go ahead that has to involve VR!

[aussiegal]

When a company CEO refers to his staff as

- indecent, unprofessional in an internal staff magazine interview (for choosing not to come in on their day/s off),

- renegade in a noted newspaper (for choosing not to come in on their day/s off or for being, heaven forbid sick),

- rorters for essentially concurring with a Senator in the Senate Estimate Committee who referred to ATC's as being sick leave rorters,

he is essentially displaying a blatant disregard for them, for him to suggest that a dozen people are to blame and then wonder why ATC's are reluctant to come in to work on their day off ....... no clue!!

It would be really nice, in an ideal world, if the actual story could be reported, or perhaps both sides of the story reported fairly.

If anyone gives a toss, here's my side, i have taken great exception to being referred to as renegade, indecent, unprofessional, and a rorter. All attributable to the CEO. For the past 5 years i have done between 15-20 extra shifts a year, 5 years, not 8 months, or whatever figure you want to suggest is attributable to a "campaign". Now Greg, you get my rostered shifts and that's it. It's all down to you.

[DutchRoll]

This is stock-standard CEO spin.

It roughly translates as "I don't like you for not being at my beck-and-call 24/7, not working yourselves completely into the ground, and being so insolent as to insist that you should actually get some time off work occasionally".

Stock-standard CEO spin is used when the CEO has cut staffing levels to the bone to save money, and all of a sudden finds himelf in a bind and under pressure from external sources to explain why the wheels are falling off under his watch.

[max1]

TIBA is not a result of looking forward at the upcoming EBA, but actually looking back at the way we have been used and ignored for the last 10 years.
We are actually recompensed for coming in our days off, but are tired of having to do it.

Tired of telling them for years there is a staffing problem.
Tired of being told for years that there is no staffing problem.
Tired of BS press releases that say that ASA were unaware of the problem.
Tired of assurances that they are now aware and it is now being addressed.
Tired of bloated management structures.
Tired of being tired.
Tired of letting our families down.
Tired of not being released for jobs we have won.
Tired of weasel words.
And Tired of being slandered in the media.

ASA have said they are recruiting 95 controllers this year and 100 next year, THEY ARE NOT. They are ATTEMPTING to recruit TRAINEES. They want people who have a degree (to show they can study),and who have some workforce experience (to show they can work) for this they are willing to offer $35k p.a. There is no guarantee they will get through after 18 months. Washout is tracking around 50%.

The people we REALLY need, are already probably earning around $50k and are smart enough to realise why take a drop in pay to work for that, and have no guarantee of a job, and then take 13 years to get to the ceiling(@135k), work shiftwork, Xmas , Easter, and can be rung 24/7/ 365 to attend . The people we really want will probably be making our top money in 10 years where they are with no ceiling and no shiftwork.

The 63% quoted payrise was not suggested for CONTROLLERS, it was suggested to attract suitable applicants to get them to apply. We are not asking for 63%. We suggested somewhere over $52K would be what ASA should be advertising to get the right people, so we don't waste expensive training resources on people who can't make it.

The spin doctors leapt on this and fed it to their tame reporter mates getting them to quote 63%,63%,63% which I notice has now crept to 64% in The Age article .

Since then its all been about ASA damage control. You can only keep drawing on your controllers goodwill, and pride in keeing the airspace open for so long, and ASA passed it about 12 months ago. When they took 106 controllers off the line by offering up to 100% pay increases to sign AWAs and become managers Some have less than 2 years experience.

They no longer manage aircraft, they manage 'people' , it is about one $160-185k manager to 10 controllers.
Who is co-erced into yet again filling the management induced holes in the roster?

I have had enough, I am looking back 10 years, not looking forward to an EBA that is still 5 months away.
When ASA own up to their mistakes, and I CAN SEE (not BS press releases that have no basis in fact) that they are taking REAL steps to address the staffing problems that they have created, and that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't another freight train, then I will be willing to leave my family and work on MY DAYS OFF to alleviate TIBA.

[Baileys]

So you will be enjoying your days off for yourself and your family until you retire in that case...well done. Encourage the rest to follow.

[mmciau]

DutchRoll,

Stock-standard CEO spin is used when the CEO has cut staffing levels to the bone to save money, and all of a sudden finds himelf in a bind and under pressure from external sources to explain why the wheels are falling off under his watch.

His/Her Performance Agreement would also encourage staff stripping so he can get a bonus!!

As an ex APS that was "VR'd" I reckon the APS has actively been downsized since the late 1980 to save the Commonwealth finding "un funded" Superannuation and Employer Contributions.

Mike McInerney

[kam16]

Max 1

Excellent post. :D It would be good to see your post sent to the papers.

I am enjoying my days off without any feeling of guilt.
TFN has no idea how much he has destroyed any remaining good will I have to this shame of a company.:ugh:

[peuce]

Is there still a requirement that you guys do "reasonable" overtime? It used to be defined as 1 per fortnight from memory.

Can't belive you guys are still doing more than that ... considering the current attacks:confused:

[BN_centre]

4.3.1 We expect that you will work a reasonable amount of additional hours if the requirement becomes necessary. You may choose not to work additional hours in circumstances where the working of such hours would result in you working hours which are unreasonable after consideration of:

(a) Any risk to your health and safety;
(b) Your personal circumstances including any family responsibilities;
(c) The needs of the workplace;
(d) The notice given by us and by you of your intention to choose not to work the additional hours; and
(e) Any other relevant matter.


There is no definition of "reasonable amount" in the agreement. ATC's are just exercising their right to refuse additional hours as allowed for in this clause.

[BeGoneTFN]

Said it once, say it again.

Just because I work shift work why should I be any less entitled to my days off than you are,especially as this entire situation has been your doing. Its by design, don't go looking to blame anyone else, stand up and take whats comming to you.

This spin is to hide the disaster you have presided over, wake up to yourself you are finished as a senior manager in aviation.

BgTFN

[ITCZ]

All stations Brisbane, etc, Hazard Alert....

CEO insulting you, blaming bad apples, questioning your professionalism, your commitment, generally 'crying foul"?

When the 'other guy' starts playing the man and not the ball, it means only one thing - Your campaign for safer airspace is working.

Stick to your guns. Maintain your objective.

FWIW, you have more than a few friends on the other side of the R/T.

[Blockla]

Civil Air have released a 'promotional video' to drum up interest in their position. See it here. (http://www.civilair.asn.au/joomla/images/stories/tibaair.wmv) 4.1MB

[Slugfest]

ITCZ


All stations Brisbane, etc, Hazard Alert....



ROFLMAO....I presume that you will not be holding your breath to hear the above broadcast on Flightwatch frequencies beacuse ausfic is closer to 20% short staffed than the controllers 10+% and NOTAM off FW each weekday.

And that was direct result of TFN's decisions too.

Last one out, please turn off the lights....

Slug

[Spodman]

Again this sh!thead offends me GRRRRRR!

A portion of the blame has to go towards SDE, an acronym for something, erm, I've forgotten. Stand Down Eventually, or Seriouly Disadvantage Employees, or something. They tore apart the stable group structure we had and have not yet completed it's replacement. Nobody has ever identified any advantage to anybody for the end result, nor any sensible way to get ther. We have far more people working weekends & night shifts than we used to or need to because the sector groupings make no sort of sense. Some of those have the joy of coming to work to do absolutely nothing, so why wouldn't they be a bit less keen to do so on their days off than they were a year ago? Those that do work can work quite hard (for the night-shift-partially-disabled brain anyhow) and get to see everybody else slumped over their consoles. Which fahkwit was it that proposed SDE again???

It also doesn't help that we used to get called for extra shifts by one of us, a controller that also happened to be a Team Leader. Now with a ludicrously and overtly hostile management, as exampled by the chief peanut's rant above, we get called by the first rank of the enemy:eek:

[ER_BN]

Hey, Spod...

Good to see you are still alive down south, wasn't sure you had not jumped ship so to speak....

SDE Which &*&%wit is responsible...

You mean you really don't know...

Apologies but he was from BN Centre (yep I'm shamed to say it)..

The Game Show Host of course...Should have been sacked for it.....Don't wait for him to resign....obviously doesn't have the ethics or morals...

And of course TFN treats him like his first born!!!

Just two of the 6 that must go in Levels 1,2 and 3...

Not counting any board members of course.

EnRoute_BrisbaNe

[Casper]

To Peter Gibson (CASA),

TIBA is NOT "less efficient," it IS LESS SAFE - have the guts to admit it!

To Greg Russell,

You were told 6 years ago of an impending shortage and chose to ignore it - for financial reasons or otherwise?? Have the guts to now fall on your sword.

Congratulations to you guys and the government for turning Australia's skies into a banana republic style hit and miss exercise. ICAO and IFALPA have said it all.

[BN APP 125.6]

There are now two videos on the Civil Air website that sum it up pretty well.

[dartman2]

I think the only mistake the controllers are making is not using the media to full advantage to highlight their concerns on manning/pay/and any other issues they feel are important. They need to public onside to add to the political pressure.

[max1]

To be fair to Greg Russell, (not that the favour is ever returned) he has only been there 3 years. However he was told from day one by the controllers that the biggest issue facing ATC was the staffing, and that the demographics showed that it was only going to get much worse fairly quickly.

Greg and his aviation Bureaucrats have continued to trade on ATCs pride in keeping airspace open to avoid hiring more staff. This had been going on for years before he got here and he has seriously misjudged ATCs patience to put up with it for ever.

The College does not have even close to the ability to train the numbers they are talking about. The College was streamlined (gutted) 2 years ago and is struggling to ramp up again.
Press releases, put about by highly paid spin doctors, tout figures of 95 and 100 trainees for this year and next year, as of now there is not even a training programme to put them on consoles. We are 7 months into a supposed 2 year training programme and there is no programme.

Dartman2, the media don't care, stories like 'Renegade controllers' are ASA spin given to reporter mates to turn the blame for this fiasco on the controllers. Who have been working 10 days on 1 day off, 60+ additional duties a year, extra shift 8 hour break extra shift 8 hour break extra shift, on top of their rostered shift just to stop it being worse.
We then see stories like this and wonder why on our days off, we come in, and miss our kids plays, footy matches, birthdays, etc etc.

Brett Godfrey from Virgin said the airlines overstaff by 10-12% so this situation doesn't occur, not our lot. They understaff by 10 % then cajole and co-erce, using the equivalent of the fleet manager to ring up people who have said No to try to harass them to come into work.

All the talk at work is ' Who is going where'. Germany are flying people over for interviews, Ireland are doing phone interviews with us for the next three weeks, Approach and Tower controllers have jobs lined up in the Middle East.

There has been no ongoing Simulator refresher or emergency training for at least three years, it is multiple choice Computer Based Training done on your breaks by yourself.
The new model they want to implement wants split shifts,no restraints on rostering, an obligation to work O/T ( the examples I cited above will not be one-offs but able to be rostered) one size fits all multiple endorsements that are a bit like, today you're flying a 737 tomorrow you're flying a 747, and next week its 777. They're all planes, you're rated to fly, so get on with it.The idea of this is to get greater coverage to alleviate the 'minor' staff shortages we have.

We look at what is on offer O/S, and they wonder why we are leaving. Some are just planning to get out and do something that doesn't involve shiftwork and putting up with this lot, and others are bringing retirement dates forward.

ASA has stated in the last year that there isn't a staffing problem, that there is a staffing problem but it is only small,that there is not a reliance on excessive overtime, that there is a reliance on excessive overtime, that there is a staffing problem and it will be fixed by July 08, that there is a looming large staffing problem but that they are recruiting big time to fix it, that there is a large staffing problem and it will get worse before it gets better, and the latest, that there is a staffing problem and it will be fixed in a month.I'm waiting for it to be called the staff shortage (recession) that we had to have.

Time will tell, and I know where I'd put my money.

[SM4 Pirate]

Following on from Max1's excellent post.

The Global Market must rule.

Germany is offering the same money with higher cost of living, but people are still considering going, to escape and for better 'conditions'.

Ireland is offering $40K-$50K AUD more, with a slightly higher cost of living, but significantly better working conditions.

The Middle East is taking Aussies in droves. The Money is significantly higher, sometimes double. Living conditions and expenses are obvious but at the end of the day you will make more money there and you get to escape. Watch out for the next big Recruiting campaign to gut Australia's ranks. Dubai World Central (Jebel Ali) will generate 200+ Controller jobs; and more than likely more money too; not just approach and tower jobs in Dubai but the sector jobs in Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Bahrain etc to feed the new beast.

Just when you think things can't get worse, the CEO slaps you down again.

This Renegade has now decided that 20 OT shifts in the last 12 months is more than enough. I'm now seeking employment elsewhere.

I believe that ASA has no concept of fixing the staffing numbers; it's not about recruiting more; it's about reducing the requirement.

They have approached the negotiations without anything to offer, but have put on the table "worse working conditions" that "enhance their flexibility". Otherwise known as reduced conditions of employment. Split shifts are high on their agenda, to reduce the total requirement, it's not employing more staff than this 'planned reduced requirement' needs.

I assume the controllers will not give up these conditions without a significant fight also assuming that the offer to offset the reduced conditions of employment will not be enough, if anything of substance at all.

[BeGoneTFN]

Max1,

Would it surprise you to know that TFN and his nut case managers have installed a former NAB manager as the training manager for the entire organisation, obviously this person has no clue about ATC and is apparently not that interested to learn.

It gets better, apparently this person has seconded up to five others from the NAB as (get this) ATC training specialists, and you guessed it not a schmick of an idea.

This individual is also of the impression that ATC's are not required to deliver the training syllabus as this can be done by trainers or teachers. One wonders what they will do should god forbid one of the trainees ask a question.

Dare I say it but TFN's cunning plan to completely F**K ASA is nearly complete, give it another 6 months and we'll be lucky if we get any trainees into the field.

This used to be an organisation I was pround to be apart of, all I'm proud of now is our ability as air traffic controllers to provide an ongoing service despite the very, very poor performance of senior management. The frightening thing is that the misinformed minister tends to believe the cowards running the place.

Despite your continuing crap Greg, I will be enjoying my well earned days off all the more since your disgraceful behaviour, you are not a managers A Hole.

BgTFN :mad:

[BN APP 125.6]

My prediction for the next chapter.

ICAO & Airline pressure force Airservices to close Airspace on a scheduled basis due safety concerns over the incidents you havent heard about yet.

Airservices blame this on 'renegade' controllers, but cannot identify them, and will not answer questions when pushed by an irritated media what they are doing to manage these staff.

More controllers leave, and less are inclined to go the extra mile anymore.

Airservices refuse to negotiate an attractive contract when it comes up for renewal in December. Pissed off controllers withdraw their overtime to start with over the New Year period.

Even more closures.

Airservices blame controllers - "It was theire plan all along"

Government finally tells them to act, and stops taking sides with management.

CEO resigns.

New CEO arrives promising to 'restructure", 'Worlds Best practice', etc. etc.

Airspace still is closed.

There are no controllers left to blame anymore.

[SM4 Pirate]

BN APP 125.6,

You are forgetting the option of 'closing down' non essential services and concentrating ALM (contract) resources on providing the core, in contingency mode; during the ATC lock out. The lock out is backed by the government to crush that "trumped up pissy little union"; at the same time withdrawing their 'overly generous supa scheme'.

The ATCs stand strong for about 10 days, good footage of pickets and baby's on the line, then they stab each other in the back to get a pay packet back; with less money in it and worse working conditions.

Those with morals choose to leave and a list is made, like the infamous 1989 list. Industry takes 3 years to recover 'non core services'; which is about right in the downturn swing.

Joe Public sides with the government because the controllers action disrupts their plans to get to holidays, weddings, funerals, meetings etc.

The CEO goes shortly after the lock out is over, praised for overseeing the storm that was with a huge bonus and glowing reference for having the guts to do it; moves into consultancy work or gets a plumb airline job.

The new CEO, with Eurocontrol, UK or FAA background comes in to bring the system up to speed with a modern approach to the job with modern work practices.

100 at 100 into 70 at 70... Hold your breath, it might just happen.

[max1]

SM4 Pirate

Sounds like you've been having a red wine moment. My position is, when they REALLY do something to resolve the situation that they have put us and them into, I will be willing to forego my days off to help alleviate the problem.

At the moment they aren't even trying, they have embarked on another restructure and trying to develop a model that they have bugger all idea how to implement. They are big on words like vision, worlds best, delivering the future yet have no idea and no plan to get there. Greg Russell came in and as you would expect was overwhelmed by people who were immediately trying to impress him, unfortunately for the Aviation industry, us and him, he picked the wrong horses.

The first thing they should have done when PC had his epiphany (Service Delivery Environment,SDE) is sit down and work out a long term plan to work out what staffing and resources were required to get there. I was involved when the vision was first being dripfed from the top,we were saying then that we don't have the bowwave numbers to get there, we could get a third of the way there but we don't have the numbers to work the consoles now, let alone release people to retrain.

At the same time ASA saw fit to create another level of management, the ATS Line Managers (ALMs), they chose to offer grossly inflated salary packages to entice people onto AWAs. They lost another 100+ controllers off the rosters, and didn't get the best people because alot were worried about being in a safety critical environment and the conflict of interest of between paypacket tenure against unbiased decision making.

SM4, why would ASA or the government close it down?
I am genuinely hoping that the Aviation Bureaucrats will pull their heads out of their arse and get back to our core responsibility of staffing and delivering a first world ATC system. They can still bring in their SDE model, it has some good points that will be good for the airlines, but they have to deliver it with the resources that THEY have left themselves with.Fail to plan, plan to fail.

I am hoping that the Egos at the top wake up to themselves, put the ALMs who can actually separate aircraft back on the roster, give the ones who can't 'opportunities to pursue other interests', offer a realistic training wage to ATC aspirants, resource the College properly, have a clean out of those overpaid newbies at upper level whose only skills seem to be whizzbang powerpoint presentations and weasel words and get back to delivering to the airlines and public the service that they are PAYING for.

In the words of JH (the new GM ATC),we have been over promising and under delivering to our customers. Give the airlines free flight and RNP like we've been promising for years, we can do it relatively quickly but it hasn't been a priority. It should be.

SM4, what you are saying is way,way down the track, personally, if it gets to that stage I won't be here anyway.

[BN APP 125.6]

Yes - and dont forget the NOC!

[ElPerro]

There were only seven incidents in which control of air space sectors had been interrupted in the 22 months between January 2006 and October 2007, rising to a whopping 135 in the eight months since, he said.

How many controllers (on average) where on the payroll between Jan 06 and Oct 07.

How many controllers (on average) are currently on the payroll?

Do the number of controllers lost relate directly to the increase in incidents?

That should give an indication as to whether the increase is due to the number of ATC guys/girls or due to unofficial industrial action.

[Bill Woodfull]

How many controllers (on average) where on the payroll between Jan 06 and Oct 07.

How many controllers (on average) are currently on the payroll?

Are you talking tin pushing/talking on the radio controllers? Or googling/talking sh*t with no traffic endorsement controllers?

You'll find a large number of radio using/tin pushing types gave up that aspect of the job (and their traffic endorsements) in the 2nd half of 2007 when they signed their AWAs and became an extra tier of management (well we need more managers in Aussie Aviation)...add to that the retirements and new Aussies in Ireland, Germany and Dubai and lets say well over a 100 (not 18).:ugh:

And our recruitment?:{


This is bouncing around my head all day...
When you're gone, how can I even try to go on?
When you're gone, ooh I try, how can I carry on?
So when you're near me, darling can't you hear me S.O.S.
Stop it! Agghhhhhhhhhhh!

[ferris]

Elperro, your simplified view will result in a distortion of the truth, as it assumes that every controller during the period you mentioned continued doing the same duties. As explained by others- they didnt. AsA management attempted a restructure of duties, which they were understaffed to implement.
It's a huge problem in the world of ATC (or any safety critical service- big hint at NASA and what happened there) when you try and apply 'business principles' to the organisation. There has been a lot written already about what happens when you try (NASA). This doesnt seem to worry the decision makers, who continue to steer the same course.


Good luck with it all. It will take years to fix, and they haven't even started. Indeed, there doesnt seem to be any acknowlegement yet that they might've gotten it wrong. It'll all be better in a month, apparently :rolleyes:

[Bill Woodfull]

It will take years to fix, and they haven't even started. Indeed, there doesnt seem to be any acknowlegement yet that they might've gotten it wrong.
Indeed. Critical Mass is rather imminent old chum. We already have Australia's standard of Central African [lack of] ATC on the BBC et al.

Now admitting one has 'f*cked up', that is the issue. ATCs MUST put their hands up and call out to their googling non-endorsed (how the did that situation happen?) managers when they think any breach or safety or separation occurs (unless the said manager just shuts the ATC in the airspace...thats fine, thats safe).

Will management put their hands up and admit to f*cking up?

Jackson has gone, Dixon has gone, TFN?

PS ElPerro, my unit has lost over 20% in 1 year and we haven't gone TIBA yet (people are still taking the overtime to keep it running).

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

ATCs MUST put their hands up and call out to their googling non-endorsed (how the did that situation happen?) managers when they think any breach or safety or separation occurs
Bill,
.
Sadly ... no ... frighteningly ..... we have done that already .... only to have the same paper shuffling/obfuscating manager/s .. embark on 'shoot the heretic' crusade/s :mad:
.
Where to from here???? :(
.
I hope beyond all hope no-one is hurt (or worse) before this is fixed! :sad:

[Alien Role]

Tech crew should be very concerned that we are being controlled by operators who are working the hours that max1 states in #23.

[Vampire 91]

A controller shortage. Hang on! How come several Sydney controllers recently received VR. Who got that wrong? There was a part of Airservices known as People and Change. Are they still running the show? From what I hear from ATC staff the decisions, or lack of them, coming from that unit are fine examples of ineptitude and stupidity. It's sad that a good system which worked has been interfered with to the extent that the staff have become completley disillusioned. Back in the late 90s I think it was a UK consultancy firm had a good look at the ATC side of Airservices and identified virtually all of the issues which have subsequently come to pass. Streaming - that is allocating a controller to a particular stream, as in Tower, TMA, or en-route, for the rest of his or her career was identified as a bad move but Airservices persisted until it was demonstrated that no one liked it and it was detrimental to good operational practice. There were some significant issues which needed to be fixed but which were simply not addressed. Australian Aviation reports that in 2007 900 ATCs took 15,700 sick days, an average of about 17 days sick leave each. How many years has that level of sick leave been going on and what did Airservices do about it? The staffing problems of an ageing workforce are not something which has suddenly arisen. There will not be a quick fix to the current problems.

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

Alien .. those levels of 'additional hours' apply across all discipline's, including single person (solo) Approach/Tower environs :(
.
... I agree wholeheartedly with your sage warning! :uhoh:

[Bill Woodfull]

in 2007 900 ATCs took 15,700 sick days, an average of about 17 days sick leave each.
I took less than 8 sick days and did over 20 call ins. A lot of those sick days by peers are long term ones (hospitalisation etc).
How come several Sydney controllers recently received VR. Who got that wrong?
An IRC decision as part of a failed restructure - taking 100 controllers off line and see what happens. Some old supervisors and TLs weren't part of the the NEW ballgame according to selectors.
There was a part of Airservices known as People and Change. Are they still running the show? From what I hear from ATC staff the decisions, or lack of them, coming from that unit are fine examples of ineptitude and stupidity.
You said it sir!
It's sad that a good system which worked has been interfered with to the extent that the staff have become completley disillusioned.
But hey, we made $104M* in profit last year!!!

*Questions: We are a government enterprise; The govt has a a $17B budget surplus....why do we NEED to show a profit (as opposed to revenue neutral)? why does our executives have remuneration based on profit, cost savings, and slashing expenditure (the results are in!)? Is not safe air navigation provision expected in a western nation?

[No Further Requirements]

I volunteer my services as CEO for half the money the current CEO is on. There, I have just saved AsA some money. And I am sure I will give fixing this sinking ship a red hot go. You have 4 weeks to take me up on the offer - that's my resignation date.

Cheers,

NFR.

[Bill Woodfull]

It took a fuselage integrity issue and a saved dive by some pro's on the flightdeck to maybe be the catlyst for GDs sayonara. What will it take for our skipper (another slash and burn and "profit* is my icon" type)?

Also, WTF is the Airservices board doing?

*sorry Mr Albanese, remind me why Airservices NEEDS such big profits again????

[BeGoneTFN]

Vampire,

Hate to say it, but P+C went the same way as all the nice pot plants in the centres, actually come to think of it most of the resources you would expect to depend upon to run an organisation effectively went that way!

When human resources is a non priority, ie lets extort money without providing a service, it's expendable. HR was cut to nothing and centralised to CB, what message does that send, pretty obvious I would say!

If the airlines, management and pilots don't react shortly despite how they feel about ATC we might be in for a first, that is a first developed country unable to provide ATC in support of its aviation industry.

My prediction is Melbourne Airport will close first due no TMA followed closely by the TWR, with CB then SY not to far behind all due to the exodus from ASA as a consequence of sh*thouse management and no government support.

To all those in the media, ASA is a total mess, get both sides of the story before you publish. ATC's despite what management state are doing their very best given the circumstances they must endure, manufactured soley by the current management.

TFN your recent comments have seriously offended and disenfranchised those that actually wanted to do OT, the reaction on Saturday by the staff on site was significant.

To be frank you do not deserve to be our CEO, you are incompotent and do not act in a manner that demonstrates the best interests of your stakeholders. You are the biggest loser, Its time to GO.

GO, GO, GO. And take PC with you!

BgTFN :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[man on the ground]

[QUOTE]in 2007 900 ATCs took 15,700 sick days, an average of about 17 days sick leave each./QUOTE]

Some clarity of these figures should be asked for. It has been suggested these figures included 'everyone' that asa deems to be a 'controller', even those 'not active', such as supervisors, but more importantly, those on long term sick leave (operations, medical disqualification pending resolution one way or the other, cancer).

Perhaps someone should ask how many sick days per 'active controllers', how that compares with previous years, and other industries?

[Driscoll]

Let's look at other facts related to the trumped up sick leave numbers as well.

ATC's are legally obliged not to work when suffering from medical impairment.

Add the following as published by the Vic government

Shiftwork - health effects - Better Health Channel. (http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcArticles.nsf/pages/Shiftwork_health_effects?OpenDocument)

Shiftwork - Health Effects

Research findings are beginning to show that shiftwork can be hazardous to your health. There is a small part of the brain called the ‘circadian clock’, which monitors the amount of light you see, moment by moment. In the evening, when the light starts to wane, your clock notices and prompts a flood of a brain chemical called melatonin, which gives the body the signal to fall asleep. Overnight, melatonin levels remain high. They drop at daybreak and remain low during the day.

During the day, other chemicals (neurotransmitters) – such as noradrenaline and acetylcholine – increase in the body and keep you awake. This system keeps you synchronised through the day–night cycle. Many other functions of the body – including temperature, digestion, heart rate and blood pressure – fluctuate through the day, tuned by the activity of the circadian clock.

This changing rate of activity over each 24-hour period is known as circadian rhythm. A person who works nights, or starts their working day before 6am, runs counter to their circadian rhythm. This may put them at risk of health problems.

Your metabolism at night
An important body function, which follows the circadian rhythm, is the internal body temperature. This temperature increases through the day. It reaches the lower level in the early hours of the morning and reaches the maximum level late in the afternoon.

The tendency to fall asleep and stay asleep occurs during the decreasing phase of the temperature circadian rhythm (between midnight and 4am). As the body temperature rises, it is more difficult to stay asleep. This is why night workers who try to fall asleep at 8am find it very difficult and also find it difficult to remain asleep through the day.

Increased risks
A person working the night shift is at greater risk of various disorders, accidents and misfortunes, including:
Increased likelihood of obesity
Increased risk of cardiovascular disease
Higher risk of mood changes
Increased risk of gastrointestinal problems, such as constipation and stomach discomfort
Higher risk of motor vehicle accidents and work-related accidents
Increased likelihood of family problems, including divorceIn addition:
The sleep deprivation, which can be caused by shiftwork, may increase the risk of epilepsy in pre-disposed people.
Shiftworkers with diabetes can experience difficulties in controlling their blood sugar levels.Sleep problems
Shiftworkers get, on average, two to three hours less sleep than other workers. They often sleep though the day in two split periods, a few hours in the morning and then an hour or so before going to work at night. Night workers can find it difficult sleeping during the day (particularly in Australia). It’s difficult to keep the sleep environment dark as well as free of noise.

Rotating shifts
The best rotating shift pattern is still undecided. For the most people, rotating forward through day, afternoon and night shift is better than backwards (night, afternoon then day). The frequency of rotation is also controversial. Some people advocate prolonged rotation, such as two to three weeks. Others advocate short rotations of two to three days. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

It takes about 10 days for the body to adjust to night shift work. However, it is common for night shift workers to revert to daytime routines for a day or two during days off, which tends to make the circadian rhythm unstable.

The amount of hours (8-hour versus 12-hour shifts) is also controversial. It can be said that 12-hour shifts stretch the body’s tolerance as far as possible. It’s very important that no overtime should be allowed during a rotation of 12-hour shifts. Another risk to sleep is when a worker on seven 12-hour shifts a fortnight uses their free time for another, almost full-time job.

Where to get help
Your doctor
WorkSafe Victoria Tel. (03) 9641 1444 or 1800 136 089Things to remember
The body is synchronised to night and day by a small part of the brain known as the circadian clock.
Body functions – such as heart rate, blood pressure, temperature, digestion and brain activity – fluctuate over each 24-hour period, under the guidance of the circadian clock.
A shiftworker is at increased risk of health problems, such as digestive upsets, obesity and heart disease.

Throw in an ageing workforce with family responsibilities, most people in my group are late 30's to mid 40's with kids ranging from 3mths to late teens.

Include a number of people doing silly levels of OT, up to 3 shifts per fortnight.

You don't have to be Einstein to work out why AsA's sick leave levels might be a little high. But apparently you do have to be smarter than TFN.

The sad fact is AsA will probably force through a sick leave cap. Some poor sucker will come in when not up to it due to being out of sick leave and have an incident and they will be hung out to dry. TFN meanwhile will be counting his dollars at another organisation he is in the process of running into the ground.

Think it could be time to update the CV.

[SM4 Pirate]

Spotted on the Civil Air website:

How many Operational Controllers are there really?
Airservices Australia have recently claimed there are 972 Operational Controllers.
An internal survey & audit by Civil Air reveals the following numbers:

Full Time Equivalent 'Full Performance Controllers': 601
Full Time Equivalent 'Part Qualified' Controllers: 84
Supervisors & Check Controllers working Air Traffic: 27
Trainees working Air Traffic: 40
.........................
TOTAL FULL TIME CONTROLLERS
COVERING TRAFFIC ROSTER LINE: 754!
So: Where are the other 220 or so?? Good question.

[divingduck]

I think for the sake of accuracy you should lose the 40 trainees working traffic...until they have a licence, they shouldn't count!

[SM4 Pirate]

until they have a licence, they shouldn't count!I know what you mean, but some would have a licence, they are changing groups or locations. I think it's not unrealistic to count them, as no doubt ASA is counting them in their total figure of 972 controllers. It still begs the question of where are these people hiding? Discount the ASA figure by 80 or so for long term illness, LWOP and Mat leave; so where are the 140 controllers? All on projects, in management, in training, where? Are any of them coming back to a console?

[undervaluedATC]

from www.civilair.asn.au (http://www.civilair.asn.au)

Media Release - A response to Airservices Australia

Tuesday, 29 July 2008 Press Release - July 29 2008 A response to Airservices Australia

Recent allegations by Airservices CEO Greg Russell that controllers are deliberately closing airspace are baseless and insulting to the professional Air Traffic Controllers of Australia.

Air Traffic Control is the business of providing safe passage of aircraft throughout the airspace administered on behalf of the Australian people. Civil Air and its members take this responsibility extremely seriously and despite years of staffing reductions, corporate and operational restructures, Australian ATCs have continued to provide a service that on world standards is second to none. Recent analysis shows Australian controllers to be amongst the most productive in the world.

The increasing rate of closures and service reductions is symptomatic of a system slowing failing despite the efforts of those that actually provide the services. Controllers and support staff are constantly required to bridge gaps in coverage by way of overtime or handling multiple pieces of airspace alone where risk modelling has already determined a need for 2 or more controllers to manage the workload.

The onset of the current ATC malaise corresponds closely with the latest management restructure in which over 100 operational ATC Supervisors were appointed as front line managers commencing March 2007. Significantly, these supervisors were previously part of the coverage of ATC rosters, day in day out helping with the workload of providing an ATC service. Since the restructure the vast majority of these new managers have been limited to purely supervisory tasks, no longer licensed to provide air traffic control at the workface. The direct impact of this has been a reduction of available ATCs to cover roster shortfalls.

In parallel with the management restructure Airservices, the government owned business responsible for delivery of ATC, commenced a restructure of airspace and the controllers that operate it. This requires virtually every controller in major centres to retrain for new airspace and procedures. Quite apart from the obvious additional workload associated with the actual training the effect is to vastly reduce the flexibility of rosters as controllers drop qualifications in one area to train for those in another.

Airservices currently quotes a staffing shortfall of 17 controllers plus another 14 in critical operational support positions. They have also publicly admitted to long term systemic reliance on overtime to keep the system afloat. There is no provision for staff absence (sick leave or other) except by way of utilising overtime. Airservices has identified a requirement to carry staff at 110% of minimum operational requirement simply to remain viable. This places the shortfall at approximately 100 staff.

Despite figures quoted it appears that the average sick leave per full time employee in the public sector is between 8 and 9 days per annum (as at 2006). The figure for ATCs is approximately 11.5 as quoted internally by Airservices. This is for a workforce that provides shift working coverage 24 hours a day 365 days a year and is subject to stringent medical requirements and fitness for duty standards far above the public norm. ATC sick leave figures equate closely with those in other similar shift working environments such as nursing and policing. A controller who is not up to the legal standard is a potential danger to everyone and must stand themselves down from duty or face strict penalties defined in Civil Aviation Safety Regulations.

Air traffic controllers are provided with sick leave as required. This was provided by the employer as an exercise to reduce a corporate liability for accrued sick leave and was not a position that Airservices was tricked into. Indeed they initiated it. Controllers must provide a certificate for any sick leave exceeding 1 day and will require a full medical examination if absent for longer terms. Airservices' own figures show that shifts requiring coverage (for all reasons including sickness) are roughly stable and that, per controller, the take up of overtime is slightly increased.

Controllers do not want to be part of a failing system. They are proud of the service they provide and their ability to do it. That some are forced to seek employment overseas or retire early simply because they can no longer cope with a system that fails to support them and blames them for its shortcomings is symptomatic of how bad things have become. There simply are not enough controllers to keep the system running.

Robert Mason
President, Civil Air
July 27, 2008

[Capt Claret]

In my opinion the problem all stems back to the use pays concept.

In some way, shape, or form, all Australians benefit from aviation; not just the passengers. Ergo, all Australians should pay for the service provided to aviation as a public service provision, not as a way for the government of the day to generate income.

When the raison d'être becomes service provision, rather than income generation, then perhaps we won't see VR offered quite so often, and staffing levels set where they should be.

[Lodown]

Just my opinion along similar lines to Capt Claret, but AsA has been jousting at big costly windmills for at least 10 years. The focus of the board and the executive has been on the core business...air traffic control. Ancillary and administrative support: secretarial, HR, book-keeping, R&D, industry consultation, training, PR, documents, mapping and anything else that didn't require an ATC licence or firefighter's certificate, was dumped with great joy and aplomb at the impending climb in the year-end bonus. Some of those requirements diminished as a result, but many of those jobs and responsibilities didn't go away. They just morphed from a secretary doing the work on $40,000 a year and typing at 80 wpm to become the responsibility of a controller on $120,000 a year, taken away from his/her core duties, typing at 35 wpm, wrestling with a computer graphics program, stuffing about with MS PowerPoint, reading self-help books with "for Dummies" in the title and believing written communication and public presentation was so simple that a controller couldn't help but fall into the role of the next Leo Tolstoy.

It's no wonder line controllers had to be promoted. The administrative work wasn't getting done and the wonderful, best-in-their-own-world executive in their insightful collective wisdom couldn't see the forest for the trees and decided simply that more ATC managers would fix the problem. The controllers getting promoted weren't necessarily good managers, but the most adept at sussing out the administrative needs of the new position's supervisor and catering to that need.

And the ironic part is that air traffic controllers not only supported this strategy, but actively embraced it. Afterall, the personality and training of an air traffic controller won't let him/her admit that he/she isn't the best person for a "simple" job like typing, or computer graphics, spreadsheet manipulation, document production, making a presentation or managing a division.

So a myopic executive devoted to an idealistic view of Nirvana where only ATC's make up the entire public face of AsA, because that equates to their distorted view of maximum efficiency, can't understand why their precious model is not looking so hot.

D'uh! :mad:

[phew_they_missed!]

And the ironic part is that air traffic controllers not only supported this strategy, but actively embraced it

What the hell are you basing that one on?

[Lodown]

Thought that would raise a few hackles, but it's still my opinion.

[phew_they_missed!]

No hackles raised here...and everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Doesn't answer the question though.

[Lodown]

Perhaps I should have put "many" between "that" and "air". In my opinion, there appears to be no shortage of ATC willing to get away from the microphone for the opportunity to do something different. And who can blame them? It seems to be possibly the main way to get noticed and advance in the organisation. The good controllers who love their jobs and stay at the mikes seem to be the ones who get passed over and disillusioned at seeing their experience and commitment count for little in an organisation that says those are the qualities it values most, but appears to reward people who show contradictory behaviour.

[phew_they_missed!]

Perhaps I should have put "many" between "that" and "air".

Make it "some" instead of "many" i would agree. The problem is, with staff run so close to the bone, it takes the removal of very few line controllers to throw the whole thing into chaos.

[max1]

Lodown

Thanks for this

'The focus of the board and the executive has been on the core business...air traffic control.'

Had a good chuckle, though events seem to show otherwise.

When you have a trainee controller who is struggling, one of the things they tend to do is put off solving the harder conflictions and do what they are comfortable doing.
You need to get them to focus on the hard things and use their time wisely to do the time critical actions first and leave the easier chores they are comfortable with til second.

After about 18 months in the job Greg Russell stated that when he arrived the financial aspects of ASA were the critical area and that he had put his major efforts into sorting these out. Our core business is ATC and ARFF, I'm not sure what has gone on in the ARFF, but ATC staffing, recruitment and training has definitely NOT been on the agenda.
It is well over a couple of years since most ATC have had any simulator emergency training, the College has been gutted, and good luck if you can find the 95 trainees that are supposed to be riding to the rescue this year.

Latest from Civilair website today 2 more VR in Sydney today, one early retirement in a week, one more resignation to work OS.

[gazs]

Not sure what you imply when you say that you can find none of the 95 trainees. I am one of the fortunate ones that will be starting next week. Unfortunately it will be some time before I am of any real benefit to you guys at the coal face but I look forward to the day I am. Hope the morale lifts in the interim
:rolleyes:

[cbradio]

Not sure what you imply when you say that you can find none of the 95 trainees.

he didn't say "none of"

and good luck if you can find the 95 trainees

you might want to be more accurate at the college, whoops, Academy

Hope the morale lifts in the interim
:rolleyes:

not likely the way things are going - not sure what the "roll eyes" smiley was supposed to mean - good luck next week.

[Binoculars]

Hey, given the wonderful performance of the share market since I retired, I've started looking for a job picking up glasses in the pub, but perhaps ASA would like to employ me on a contract basis to sit and play with spreadsheets for twenty hours a week of my own choosing?

I'm sure I could release at least one manager back to operational duties at a fraction of the current price?

(Sorry Al, just kidding!)

[Quokka]

And the ironic part is that air traffic controllers not only supported this strategy, but actively embraced it

What the hell are you basing that one on?

Lodown is correct.

A lot of controllers find it hard to stomach that they don't have the aptitude and ability to perform in non-operational positions... especially leadership positions.

But how many of them will compromise their own values... or at least those that they professed to believe in and may have abided by in the past, to achieve that golden "promotion" to a non-operational position with the same or higher salary?

The Managers were our brethren controllers... they have come from us.

Maybe we should sit down and take a good hard look at ourselves, our work culture, beliefs and values. Because no-one yet amongst us has risen from the ranks and become the Messiah of Air Traffic Control Management... and I seriously doubt that there ever will come a Messiah in Australian Air Traffic Control.

So, the next question is... why?

[peuce]

That's easily answered ...


Controllers are recruiited because they have the controlling gene
Administrators and Managers are recruited because they have the management gene


However, ASA have always tried to mix the gene pool ... doesn't work ... and it's very expensive

[sierraoscar595]

I'm involved with a small RPT carrier operation - should I be worried about a strike or any other kind of industrial action over all this. Would be good to have some advanced notice if there's something on the horizon :eek:

[Lodown]

Strike? Nah! Disruptions and near misses as out-of-practice managers try to get their skills back to speed after years away from the mike to cover for the loss of regular controllers? Maybe...

[Blockla]

I'm involved with a small RPT carrier operation - should I be worried about a strike or any other kind of industrial action over all this. Would be good to have some advanced notice if there's something on the horizonOur agreement expires on 21 December. AFAIK, If Industrial were to occur, not suggesting it will, it couldn't happen before 25 December 2008. It's the law to give 3 full days notice (to initiate a bargaining period). Also a requirement to have a vote of the members to endorse the action (not sure if the vote can happen before the bargaining period is initiated.); so more than likely the first industrial action would be early 2009.

[oldbull youngbull]

I can now say it is an embarrassment to work for ASA as a controller.

I no longer believe the in the bull$hit 'vision' of this organisation.

I have no absolutely no confidence in the lieing, deceiptful, greedy ar$ehole that is TFN.

I wonder how long it will be before ASA's 'customers' insist on the truth that is the staffing debacle we are experiencing.

I wonder how long it will take for Albanese and Rudd to realise that they have been and are being lied to.

I wonder how long it will take for a media organisation to have the balls to expose what is really going on in this, one of the most dis-functional organisations I now have the displeasure of working for. To expose the damage this mongrel has done to this organisation.

????????????

[undervaluedATC]

this idea of renegade controllers is pure BS.

I think Greg Russell is trying to manufacture a scapegoat. As numerous people have pointed out - if there were "renegades" surely this would have been identified, and harsh examples made of.

the allegory to all this is the story of an empire/dictatorship VS the rebels.

The general populace is punished because they are suspected of harbouring rebels, and pretty soon, if there were no rebels there before, there are now.

Don't fall for the trap. don't become a renegade because TFN wants a public scapegoat. it is mismanagement (training) and neglect (less than competive wages) that have led to the staffing problem, along with a stubborn persistence in projects (ALMS, SDE = less qualified controllers available) that have led to the "service interruptions". Nothing else.

[max1]

A challenge to Greg Russell, sit in a room with your Lvl3 ATC managers, and ask each individually how many controllers they believe they are short in their area.
"I am manager of X area , I currently need Y controllers". Take their answers as the truth, don't shoot the messenger, and then you will have an idea of where you are really at.
Was told by an ALM today,after meeting between ALMs and their Lvl3, they worked out that, just this one area was 10 short.
Lvl3 can't understand how this figure of 17 australia wide keeps being bandied about.

Greg ask your managers, they know the real figures. Admit you and your upper echelons stuffed it, take real attainable steps to fix it, forecast a realistic timetable to fix it, one that we can believe, because we all have contacts in the College and in recruitment and KNOW if you are lying to save face. Your spin in the media is just that. Do what we have to do, if you make a mistake put your hand up.
If you take this course of action, you may find that controllers once again might do, your quoted ,'excessive overtime' to dig us out of your hole. It may be personally distasteful to admit you have got it wrong, but that is the path you will have to tread to get us back on side.

We, the controllers, have been told for years 'can you just do more O/T, we have a plan to fix this, we want to give you career breaks,can you do more O/T, we want to let you access your long-service leave, we want you to be able to have a work/life balance,can you do more O/T,we want to be able to offer you career development,we don't want you rotting on one console for twenty years,can you do more O/T, we are building up to an excess of numbers, etc etc'. We have given up believing.

Greg, this is exactly what you promised us three years ago, and your predecessors for years before that. 'We just need to get over this hump, after we implement this, once this restructure is in, etc ,etc.'

Are you really surprised that we don't believe you, another resignation from Brisbane for Ireland yesterday. 2 VRs, one early retirement and another resignation from Sydney the day before. Some people are taking paycuts just to get out of the toxic environment you have created. Your slander in the press might make you feel better, but if you are trying to fix the problem, you are just making it worse.

People will not be continually lied to, your SDE model has some good points and not so good points, it has been floundering for 2 1/2 years now.

Controllers have shown since before TAAATS transition(late nineties) that we will adapt and change,we keep moving the aircraft with new procedures, new sectors , new models, new software, new rosters and less staff.

SDE has been a lab rat experiment. People have trained and then retrained, got endorsements, had endorsements lapse, been given new airspace, had that airspace taken away. Had new rosters implemented , had those changed , and then changed again. The College has been streamlined (gutted) and now is busy trying to ramp up again. New managers who know nothing about ATC are being brought in ,and bringing their mates along for the ride. Consultants are waltzing in, and tangoing out.

You reckon October was when this all ramped up and had something to do with EBA negotiations. BS. Negotiations were not even starting til April. October was when you implemented another management restructure and 100+ controllers with endorsements hung up the headsets and went out the back to work on procedures, rosters, SDE, etc etc. They may still have ATC licences but most haven't spoken to an aircraft since and are no longer endorsed to do so. There are under 800 endorsed ATCs now in Australia, stop quoting 970+.They may still be employed but they don't move planes.

Controllers move planes.

P.S. Greg, I'd love to see the plan for the 500 trainees you are getting for the next 5 years, something more substantial than a press release, as it is now nearly August and there is still no training plan for the 95 this year and the 100 next year. Seeing you run a monopoly, I wouldn't think it is commercial-in-confidence.

It is better to tell the truth, that way you don't have to remember things.

[Slugfest]

The Australian July 31, 2008

Air boss blames union for gaps in traffic control

THE problems with the nation's air traffic control system are the fault of an industrial campaign, excessive sick leave and an outdated endorsement system rather than staff shortages, the chief executive of Airservices Australia claimed yesterday.

Greg Russell told an aviation conference in Sydney there had been only seven incidents where pilots were left flying without air traffic control over 2006 and 2007, years where there were no wage negotiations.

But since October last year, there had been more than 140 interruptions to service, with about the same number of air traffic controllers. "You may well ask what's so different in 2008 and I think the answer is pretty obvious," he said.

Mr Russell said Airservices was short of about 17 controllers on the basis of "the current inefficient way" it operated.


"Is it a critical shortage? No." he said. "But it can sound very persuasive when it's being talked up in a year of wage negotiations."


Airservices had a training and recruitment initiative under way "after some years of neglect".


But it needed to move ahead with a program to improve the efficiency of airspace management, as well as tackling restrictive union work practices in areas such as rostering and absenteeism, he said.


One problem was that 144 separate endorsements were needed to work across the 32 sectors of Australian airspace.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

There's supposed to be a segment about ATC on the ABC "7:30 report", thursday night 31-Jul-08.

[ferris]

It makes you wonder if or when someone is going to ask him the right questions. Reading his own words, he states there was no "industrial action"/wage negotiation in 2006/2007, yet he says there WERE AIRSPACE CLOSURES in that period. So what were those airpsace closures due to? How can a supposedly well-run, first world ANS provider have ANY airspace closures? If the increasing number of airpsace closures is due to industrial action, why isn't ASA in court? That alone would have to be a massive management failure. If there is unprotected industrial action happening, what is TFN doing to stop it?

It just seems pretty obvious that if airspace closures began happening when the CEO admits there was no industrial campaign, and those closures are increasing, then the reason for them happening in the first place (a lack of staff) is increasing (probably via attrition)- or is that TOO OBVIOUS? :rolleyes:

This is "Sunbeam" and Chainsaw Al for any MBA-types, and "NASA" for the safety conscious

Someone else mentioned that the CEO must be smarting and on his last legs when he is lashing out like a desperado. Even CASA can't pretend it isnt happening once the coiled-spring that is ICAO is noticing.

[89 steps to heaven]

I'm sure I could release at least one manager back to operational duties at a fraction of the current price?

(Sorry Al, just kidding!)

All I need is forwarding address for the office keys.

Then again, how about Unicom operator Prossie?

:ok:

[peuce]

Surely the ASA CEO can't be that stupid. He's a supposed intelligent person and now he's beating up the people whom he is hoping will hold the system together for him:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Ah !:confused: perhaps he isn't so stupid.

Standby for conspiracy theory ...

Could he be goading the Controllers INTO industrial action ... thereby diverting attention from the real reason that airspace is closing

Was that a naughty thing to say :=

[james michael]

Peuce

Take a bikkie from the cookie jar :)

[Chu Mai Huang]

SDE = Some Dumb-ass Experiment?

All will be fixed! There is a guy (one) going back (southerly outlook) who has been out of it for 5 years. He gets 4 days of simulator sessions.:eek:
So really, AsA will be only 16 short now!:(

[indamiddle]

from what i saw on the abc, when GR took over 3 years ago he found no plan in place for future recruitment, a plan is now in place (3 years later) which will start to take affect in 2011. so if i heard correctly, GR is not exactly a rocket surgeon or at least not in any kind of a hurry.
many years since i last saw PM on t.v. or anywhere else. hardly recognised him without the floormop on his head.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Seems like Minister Albanese (coincidentally my federal member), is only hearing (or has been briefed on) one side of the whole sorry story of the worldwide ATCO shortage and the focus on short-term financial returns and the lack of realistic long-term planning.

[ferris]

It seems so. especially as the contradictions keep mounting up....
"GREG RUSSELL: When I arrived, one of the things that I asked to see was a current workforce plan, a plan that told us where our problem areas were. No such plan existed. We didn't think about the future. We didn't plan for it. And we're now in better shape."
So, he didnt know when he arrived...and what has he done about it since finding out (since he previously admitted there has been TIBA events going back to 2006)?....
He has made a plan!!! And the plan is........"For now, Air Services is trying desperately to remain upbeat, adamant the immediate shortfall should be fixed next month with 17 new recruits." Yet..."But the first bumper class of graduates won't be ready for work until 2011"

So the plan, as advised so far, is to increase the staff numbers...in 2011. hehehe, that is, of course, if he retains the current staff......"The union warns that unless salaries are hiked up a whopping 30 per cent, on par with their international colleagues, there'll be a further exodus of staff."
So whats the plan there.....? Or will your replacement, Greg, be telling us he wasnt aware that there was a global demand for his renegades? And that he needs to make a plan?:cool:

[Here to Help]

PETER MCGUANE: They're not easy jobs reforming organisations like this. I don't think I fully understood just how difficult it could be some days, but nevertheless, there is a way through this.

Please note that this comment was actually by CEO Greg Russell and not Peter McGuane.

Full video of the story also available at The 7.30 Report - ABC (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2320803.htm)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

'G.R.' courtesy of ABC 31/7/08.

"But nevertheless, there is a way through this........"

From that well known expression...'Please Explain??':confused::confused:

Cheers to all...

[Binoculars]

Then again, how about Unicom operator Prossie?

As long as my employer isn't ASA and I can live at Laguna Quays, hey, who knows? ;)

[Track Coastal]

We have 753 talking to and moving aluminium types. Where did the missing controllers go?

[oldbull youngbull]

So there's a sick-out is there?

You are therefore implying fraud are you?

Well why don't you do your duty as a CEO and prosecute you spinele$$ prick?

You are deluded if you think come December that it will be a sick-out that forms our industrial action. All it will take is the ceasing of all OT.

I think we all know what's coming. It's time for all the older heads to start preparing our younger colleagues for December.

Come December, you will pay mate! A bloke can only take so many insults, especially when they are lies.

[Lodown]

I'm at a loss to understand why the talk of strike action. All it does is harden the resolve of everyone concerned and gets the public offside with the controllers. If I understand correctly, the way things are progressing, come December, AsA won't have the ATC numbers to provide a comprehensive service anyway. You won't have to take action, express opinions or anything else. Just do your jobs and take home the pay cheque. The board of ASA has made its own bed. Simply let them lie in it. Whether it's this December or next, from what is mentioned here, through normal attrition (and a complete absence of forethought and consideration), AsA won't be short just a few controllers, but an enormous number.

There are a few non-ATC people willing to let these things sort themselves out too. If you were in favour of privatised ATC, the AsA board is doing everything right to serve up privatised ATC services on a platter with an outstanding sauce and accompanying vintage wine. Just be seated at the table with an appetite.

[Funk]

I'm at a loss to understand why the talk of strike action. All it does is harden the resolve of everyone concerned and gets the public offside with the controllers. If I understand correctly, the way things are progressing, come December, AsA won't have the ATC numbers to provide a comprehensive service anyway. You won't have to take action, express opinions or anything else. Just do your jobs and take home the pay cheque. The board of ASA has made its own bed. Simply let them lie in it. Whether it's this December or next, from what is mentioned here, through normal attrition (and a complete absence of forethought and consideration), AsA won't be short just a few controllers, but an enormous number.

There are a few non-ATC people willing to let these things sort themselves out too. If you were in favour of privatised ATC, the AsA board is doing everything right to serve up privatised ATC services on a platter with an outstanding sauce and accompanying vintage wine. Just be seated at the table with an appetite.

If you take the option of strike action off the table (other forms of industrial action now outlawed) then you might as well cave in now like Civil Air and the rank & file have done for the last 15 years at least.

In so far as privatization is concerned don't fear it, no more political appointments and decisions based on real economics not some pseudo rubbish we have witnessed since 1995. Really who in business would allow that ALM bull****.

There is no going back to the 60's or 70's public service days. Our aviation colleagues in the airlines have fared no better or worse in private employment.

[BN_centre]

Can someone please explain to me how recruiting a course which will not get rated until 2011 fulfils TFN's promise of the erasing the staff shortfall in a month??? :confused:

[divingduck]

You are obviously not a manager then if you can't work that out!:ugh::ugh:

Anyway, who was talking of strike action? How about an overtime ban?
That should focus the minds of the higherups in a heartbeat.
You should make a big beat up in the media for the month ahead of the ban, run with the ban for two weeks to a month, and let the chips fall where they may.
You might have to "discuss" the nature of the problem with those that can't help themselves coming in for that extra cash, but you get them in every organization, and better still, everyone will know who they are.:suspect:
Bring some media into the centre on a "fact finding mission". Take photos with your whiz bang mobile phone and post them on the internet of empty consoles (under an assumed name of course):}
Take the fight to the bar stewards, stop standing there getting hit!
Trying to act all mature, long suffering and reasonable hasn't worked in the past so why would anyone think it will work in the future?
Short term pain, long term gain....for everyone.

[Bill Woodfull]

There will be no need for strike action IMHO.

Airservices says we have 972 Operational Controllers and are 17 short.

We actually have around 750 'moving metal' controllers which makes us 220ish short.

Between now and christmas we will lose say at least another 12-15 to resignation/retirement/VR etc (we have lost about 4 the last few days). Hopefully we will pick up 12-15 new ratings in that period.

End result? 220 short. Its a house of cards built on a fold town tray table and the FO (Civilair) mentions to the Capt (Alan Woods Building) that he is reading a SIGMET outling forecast MOD CAT ahead. "Shall I make a PA announcement and tell the pax?", "No need the WX radar looks fine, tell them the weather ahead is beaut and we will be on time", "But Captain, its Clear Air Turbulence and the Sigmet says...".

The issue is have we passed the PNR (point of no return)?

We don't have to do anything. Go to work, be professional - Levels 1, 2 and 3 are punching the holes in the cheese slices.

[Teal]

From crikey.com.au

AirServices memo fails to shift the blame

Ben Sandilands writes:

A rambling memo (http://redirect.cmailer.com.au/LinkRedirector.aspx?clid=fcea8a1b-0987-45d0-b89b-38a0e2ed4621&rid=70ac6a9f-9f82-4748-a87c-e55bbfe757f1) sent out by AirServices Australia CEO Greg Russell to his staff this week should be enough to end his career. AirServices Australia is no longer delivering its product: the continuous safe separation of airliners in controlled air space. It has been criticised for this by its two major customers, Qantas and Virgin Blue. Tiger Airways this morning complained about the cost burden of flying around uncontrolled air space because it refuses to use those areas on safety grounds.

Departing CASA CEO Bruce Byron has also criticised AirServices Australia, as has ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organisation. AirServices has even undermined its income base by failing to provide its airline customers with the product for which they pay. No control means no fees. And it has serious safety implications.

Russell may well be right about the amazing coincidence between controllers not presenting for duty on their days off or for additional overtime when pay negotiations are underway. But that’s the job of any CEO to anticipate and manage. It has not been managed at AirServices. It has been allowed to fall into a heap. When overseas flights are approaching an Australian city with legal fuel reserves and are suddenly confronted with no air traffic control for the final stage of the flight to the destination or to the flight-plan-filed alternative airport to which they would divert in the event of fog or adverse winds, they are confronted with conditions their standard operation procedures forbid, and marginal if not inadequate fuel reserves. This is an intolerably dangerous situation. It cannot be remedied simply by bullying people who are drop dead tired to work yet another additional shift. The rules governing air traffic controller rostering also forbid such a solution. This needs to be fixed immediately.

[max1]

A good couple of questions to ask TFN , of which he would have no idea of the answers.
' How many times has TIBA been avoided or shortened because a controller came in early on short notice to start their shift, or stayed back late , or came in at short notice on their day off, or allowed their roster to be changed to cover holes?'
Also how often is their airspace kept open with less than required staff, consoles done on combine, etc, etc, and for how many years have these practices been going on?
Is it true that it is cheaper to rely on your controllers doing 'excessive O/T to bump up the bottom line, than hire more?
Is your remuneration directly tied to this bottom line?

The potential for TIBA has been around for years, and there have been incidences. The line about it being tied to the EBA is a convenient scapegoat for someone who has ignored the problem for years. The management decision to create the non-operational ALMs in October was the final straw.

The Aviation Bureaucrats had removed themselves that far from the day-to-day running of the core business, that, they believed that controllers professional pride in keeping the airspace open was inexhaustible.
That our calls for years to staff the place properly and look at the age profiles was all about money. I suppose if your only motivation is the Almighty Dollar, it is reasonable to assume that is what everybody thinks.

It is a high pressure environment, when someone makes a mistake it affects those around them. When you see workmates coming in with their eyeballs hanging out, having major health problems and going through break-ups because of the pressure to attend for work on their days off, and realise that no-one at the top gives a toss, you tend to re-assess your priorities.

Thank you Greg Russell you, and your profit driven sycophants, helped us get there.

[hoggsnortrupert]

I have a question:

It would be of interest to know how many CEO's of today started:
1/ As an apprentice on the shop floor.
2/ As a junior doctor on the ward.
3/ As a local council worker.
4/ As a teacher.
5/ As a Commercial pilot.
6/ As a community constable.
7/ As a whatever????

My point is that today we generate them with a degree in business management, or human science, we the community/tax payer, then pay them 100's of thousands of dollars per year, and to get change? or have a problem in the making recognised? they have a board, how do you get a board to understand? if you are lucky enough to have it get to board level, they enlist the expertise of numerous consultants also with degrees in human science, business, and then only if you are very lucky,after maybe 12 months they tell us what we are telling them.

Of days gone by, my late Grandfather rose to be head of the dairy factory, but only after he started as the factory apprentice fleet mechanic, then as cheese maker, milk powerder processor, packing shed hand, cream/milk truck driver, etc etc, the point is he left school at 13, and started with the factory, and never left.

When it goes wrong, a govt enquiry or whatever will find fault with some manager or other, never the CEO.

Call me a synyc or whatever, but but and but, the more I see the more I do not understand, then again at 52 maybe I am just to slow for the change in the world.

we live in a world where common sense is :

1/ Not common.
2/ Not sensible.

and as for discretion bought about by experiance, forget it.

I rekon, round up all the politicians,lawyers,CEO's, and slot the lot of them.:E

But hey thats not using comon sense.:=

Yep holes lining up in the swiss cheese and no one wants to know:

Chrs
H/Snort

[cbradio]

another great post max1 :D - I really hope someone in BS castle is passing them on (they probably are for all the wrong reasons - keep your head down!).

[max1]

cbradio,
I am sure many controllers would ask him to his face.




If we ever saw him.



I've seen him on telly though.

[No Further Requirements]

The problem these days is that when CEOs go to a new position, all they get asked is "How much did you increase profit and decrease expenditure?" No talk of "How did your customers rate you?" or "How satisfied were your employees with your performance?" It's all about money. I think this kind of thinking will end in tears soon - witness Don Smallgoods and Datmoor woodmill shut downs....

Cheers,

NFR.

[Baileys]

New Software System Calculates ATC Numbers

New Software System Announced

MEMO
To: All Air Traffic Controllers
From: ASA CEO
Re: MYASS

This memo is to announce the development of a new ATC Staff Number Counting Software System. We are currently building a new Canberra based data center that will contain all ATC Staff Numbers data since the Year 2000. The program is referred to as the "Millennia Year Application Software System" (MYASS).

Next Monday at 9:00 there will be a meeting in which I will show MYASS to everyone. We will continue to hold demonstrations throughout the month so that all employees will have an opportunity to get a good look at MYASS.

As for the status of the implementation of the program, I have not addressed the networking aspects so currently only one person at a time can use MYASS. This restriction will be removed after MYASS expands.

Several recently promoted managers are using the program already and have come to depend on it. Just this morning I walked into a subordinate's office and was not surprised to find that he had his nose buried in MYASS. I've noticed that some of the less technical personnel and ATC's are somewhat afraid of MYASS.

Just last week, when asked to enter some information into the program, I had the GM ATC say "I'm a little nervous, I've never put anything in MYASS before." I volunteered to help him through his first time and when we were through he admitted that it was relatively painless and he was actually looking forward to doing it again. He went so far as to say that after using SAP and Oracle, he was ready to kiss MYASS.

I know there are concerns over the virus that was found in MYASS at the beginning of 2008, but I am pleased to say the virus has been eliminated and we were able to save MYASS. In the future, however, protection will be required prior to entering MYASS.

We planned this database to encompass all information associated with the business. So as you begin using the program, feel free to put anything you want into MYASS. As MYASS grows larger, we envision a time when it will be commonplace to walk by an office and see a manager hand a paper to an employee and say "Here, stick this in MYASS."

This program has already demonstrated great benefit to ASA during recent CASA and ICAO audits. After requesting certain historical data the agency representatives were amazed at how quickly we provided the information. When asked how the numbers could be retrieved so rapidly our CASA Relationship Manager proudly stated "Simple, I just pulled them out of MYASS."

[Tarq57]

:D:D:D:D:D

Is the interface software or hardware-based?

[BeGoneTFN]

I wish one of you MEDIA types would ask TFN exactly how long he has been trying to address the staffing crisis (this is the one question he seems to dodge wonderfuly well).

Despite the fact he actually created the current disaster, he has been in the job for nearly four years and yet he is still shifting the blame to others, claiming that Mr B S left the place in a state (give me a break).

After the 7.30 report one would have thought he has just arrived and is striving to save the situation OMG what a laugh!

TFN is engaged in a cover up to save his own arse. I believe it will only be a matter of time before PC and his like get the bullet the final act of cowardice to save his bonus.

Thats another question, how on earth did he get his massive bonus if when he arrived he had identified a lack of staff planning yet we are still in the sh*thouse.

Given TSIT when fully cranked up with the masses of resources thrown at it could pump out a max of 50-70 trainees a year the current academy stands a snowflakes chance in hell of achieving 500 in 5 years.

Sorry, I forgot that the staff situation will be solved next month. I guess the TGO's featured in the TWR simulator footage on the 7.30 report are progressing extremely well.

BgTFN :ok:

[Chu Mai Huang]

Wasn't just TGO's shown in the new tower sim...... lots of others shown there in the other sim I'm told. No 'real' air traffic controllers there to film? Guess not......:(

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

Elmer Fudd .. and co .. :rolleyes: ... yup, the college pinnacle :hmm:
.
.
... hey old Disney pig a.k.a da guru (in yer own lunch box) ... be careful what you say about real controllers mate ;) .. she would run rings around you all day, every day, 365 days a year ... every year! :D
.
... ya fool!! :suspect:

[wolf_wolf]

For the record journalist types - Mr Russell was repeatedly told in 4 separate "no BS" meetings with Brisbane ATC staff in 2005, that a "lack of ATC staffing" was the most critical issue to the business. Up to 40 staff members attended each of these meetings that were held over several days in the Brisbane ATSC. They were specifically requested by the CEO himself to address "staff concerns". He cannot now say on the 1930 Report that he was not aware of how serious the problem was. HE WAS CLEARLY TOLD !! HE WAS CLEARLY WARNED !! He has had three years to fix the problem. No result. :ugh:

A vote of no confidence please... :=

[hoggsnortrupert]

The use of Common Sense and his close friend Logic is banned in the Pacific.
They are too confusing....

An Obituary printed in the London Times........ interesting and sadly
rather true.

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who
has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was,
since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.He
will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
* Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
* Why the early bird gets the worm;
* Life isn't always fair;
* and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend
more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children,
are in charge).
His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy
charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens
suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher
fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the
job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children. It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student;
but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted
to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses;
and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a
burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in
her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust
his wife, Discretion his daughter, Responsibility his son, Reason.
He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers;
* I Know My Rights
* I Want It Now
* Someone Else Is To Blame
* I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If
you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do
nothing.

Recieved from an OLD friend & retired Aviator/pilot, rather fitting I think!

Chr's
H/Snort.

[undervaluedATC]

MEDIA TYPES: this ongoing excuse of "not having a staffing plan" when TFN arrived 3 years ago is wearing thin.

How much time would it take to look at employee records and just graph the age profile? 3 years ago, there were 1000 ATC'ers - give or take - any clerk could have gotten a rough outline of just the age profile in less than a week.

Then all they had to do was remember that in 2005:
i) most aged late 40's are allowed to access their superannuation at 50,
ii) late 30's/early 40's are allowed to access their super at 55
etc.

without even having to ask individual intentions/personal circumstance, a rough outline of staffing requirements due retirement could have been formed quickly and with little effort. It's not a black art - it's basic maths.

being aware/reminded that the recruitment and selection process typically takes 12 months, and training at the college another 12 months [with pass rates ranging from 50% to 75% or original intake], then a further 6 months to initial endorsment, and up to 5 years to become a full performance controller should have helped them realise they were potentially already behind the eight ball.

and we told them they were at the staff meetings in 2005.

Obviously our concerns were not taken seriously. But to take 107 controllers away from separating traffic at the end of 2007, with no surge in recruitment...... well, by then, TFN had 2 years in the organisation to realise it really does take 2 to 2+1/2 years to get replacements....

there is just no way TFN could have been ignorant of this potential situation. And not to fix in 3 years - well there's a word for that, starting with N, but I don't want to get done for libel.

but I guess it's sooooo much easier to try and blame (or create) "renegade controllers" for the current "service interruptions"

[BN_centre]

I can no longer find the current certified agreement on the wagenet.gov.au site. Can anyone else see it?

[Super G]

As a qualified and experienced controller now residing and controlling overseas I have watched with great sadness the situation unfolding in my homeland where good men and women are having their lives and those of their families unnecessarily disrupted by the lack of foresight and downright mismanagement from those who call themselves 'leaders' of AsA.

You see I have had my application on the AsA web site to return to Australia for nearly 4 years, updated only recently, yet the silence from AsA has been deafening.
Without going into too much detail regarding my experience and qualifications lest I be identified by the 'thought police', I have been controlling for the last 11 years in four different countries, trained in Australia by her military, have radar and procedural ratings and experience in tower, approach and area and even moonlight as a commercial pilot with ATPL subjects. Maybe when years ago I politely declined to accept a training position in Melbourne Centre, when I was quite happy in my then position a long way overseas, I may have been black balled?

I'm not the only Aussie expat controller who would like the chance to return to her shores. I know of at least 3 very experienced controllers who are still getting the cold shoulder from AsA. Surely these experienced people could be brought into the AsA training system in very short order in attempt to address the chronic shortages? But I guess when you've got a chief executive who claims 'there is no shortage' then I've probably answered my own question.

Does anybody here either have a desire to return to Australia (and would work for AsA) or know of anyone who would? Might give us all an idea of how many potential experienced bodies are out there who could help alleviate the chronic problems now facing the guys and girls in Oz. Keep your chin up guys. This can't go on forever.

G

[flightfocus]

Super G,

Right now that cold shoulder is a blessing in disguise - things ARE that bad. You would be soon wondering what the hell you were doing here.

The lunatics have taken over (and have been running!) the asylum for some time now... :{

[Nautilus Blue]

TFN did know about the staffing problems, he just had more important things to do ;

'When I came into this business two and a half years ago I was immediately confronted with a whole range of issues and you can’t always do everything at the same time. What we did in the first instance was to restructure the business and to work on our fundamental systems – our HR systems, our finance systems – which were in need of a great deal of work. At the same time though, I was very mindful of the fact that our air traffic controllers were telling me that there were shortages of staff.'

Azimuth 'Candid CEO Interview' Jan 2008

[SM4 Pirate]

At the same time though, I was very mindful of the fact that our air traffic controllers were telling me that there were shortages of staff.'And what did he do, ignored it, hoped it went away, thought to himself they are full of sh!t? Cut training and reduced abinitio intakes. Now he's caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Surely he must hand back those massive bonuses he got, funded essentially by budget cuts; the same cuts that have 'crippled' the continuity of business a short 2 years after he made them.

Greg Russell should do the honourable thing and resign; of course he won't.

[KittyKatKaper]

What we did in the first instance was to restructure the business and to work on our fundamental systems – our HR systems, our finance systems – which were in need of a great deal of workOh,that quote from Azimuth is priceless !
It implies (to me), that an ATC service (the stuff that the customers actually have to pay for) is not 'fundamental' to ASA.

[aussiegal]

Super G, not sure where you're located but i had heard a couple of ex-ml tcu controllers are coming back later this year, i think they'd relocated to honkers several years ago. It would appear very short sighted to overlook people such as yourself and the others you mention but as i think someone mentioned ..... asylums ..... etc

[ferris]

I was immediately confronted with a whole range of issues and you can’t always do everything at the same time

This guy is the CEO?

ooohhhhh baby!

If he was earning 35k a year, and in charge of the tea trolley, you might accept such a statement.

edit; I retract that last statement. Most tea trolley operators could do several things/everything at once. In particular, they could make tea (their core business).

[max1]

Super G, get your arse back here pronto!!!!!!

[LapSap]

i had heard a couple of ex-ml tcu controllers are coming back later this year, i think they'd relocated to honkers several years ago.

Only a couple? :E:E:}:ok:

[undervaluedATC]

from www.civilair.asn.au (http://www.civilair.asn.au)


Monday, 04 August 2008 Press Release Air Traffic Control and Airspace Closures

Allegations that “renegade” controllers are deliberately masterminding Australian airspace closures by way of unjustified sick leave spike are without substance. In Airservices’ annual “Waypoint” presentation to industry in June, General Manager ATC Jason Harfield observed that “Like all workplaces we are affected by illness and other personnel issues.”

Recently Airservices circulated information internally indicating that sick leave has remained substantially unchanged across the past 3 years but that overtime take up to cover staff absences and systemic staffing shortfalls has decreased. Critically, the number of staff willing to undertake overtime appears to be reducing as Airservices places more and more reliance upon it. Recent figures indicate expected seasonal sick leave patterns. Airservices has acknowledged as recently as this week in several forums that this is not a union coordinated activity preferring to blame a small number of “renegade” employees. Sick leave figures continue to sit at around 11.5 days lost per controller. This figure is above the national average but consistent with other 24 hour 365 day per year occupations.

Airservices seems bent on shifting the blame to those that have been holding a failing system together, rather than accepting the consequences of its own mismanagement of human resources across an extended period of time. Airservices fails to acknowledge the severe effect of long term reliance on overtime upon staff morale, health and welfare. Australian Air Traffic Controllers have supported the system for years during staff shortages whilst various management and operational restructures have reduced staff availability and flexibility. The simple truth is that the system has been unsustainable for some time and shortfalls were dramatically exacerbated by redeployment of a significant number of operational controllers into management and supervisory roles commencing March 2007.

Airservices erroneously quotes a current shortage of 17 controllers but internally estimates that this minimum staffing figure is unsustainable. Further, the proposal to train 100 controllers a year is currently unattainable with the ATC Academy only able to deliver 60 trainees per annum as currently resourced. Constant restructuring in pursuit of apparently unattainable corporate efficiencies is preventing successful recovery from the trouble torn environment we face each and every day. With yet another ATC reform project commencing, we hold grave fears for the future.

Air Traffic Controllers are part of the solution, not the problem.

[BeGoneTFN]

I do believe that the above mentioned press release SAYS IT ALL!

Well done Civil Air, the approach taken to the assault by ASA has been calm, mature and well managed. Let them look like d*ckheads!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[max1]

The latest from ASA in EBA negotiations

"Overtime – they propose a new additional hours provision that an employee has an obligation to work a reasonable amount of additional hours and your ability to refuse to work for reasons associated with health or family etc will be assessed for reasonableness by your manager. Their expectation of what is reasonable is up to one additional shift per fortnight."

This means that on MY ROSTERED DAY OFF, no reserve or standby payments, that if they ring they will assess if my kids footy game, birthday, dance concert, my rest, is important enough to continue with my UNPAID day off or whether they will direct me to come to work. Which way does anyone think they will go when 'assessing'?

What a fantastic employer, "Our People-Our Committment".

ASA have neglected staffing so badly, that they want the power to decide what you now do on your UNPAID day-off. Its one day a fortnight, but they will give you only a couple of hours notice of what day they decide it will be, and expect you to cancel any plans and be obligated to attend.

This is their committment to work/life balance. If I wanted to be a 'beck-and-call boy' I would have taken up the worlds oldest profession. Mind you sometimes I feel like I'm getting the same result.

[BN APP 125.6]

If they think a big stick like that is going to be the approach needed, it just goes to show how delusional and out of touch the millions of managers are.

Maybe it is bathing in that ever deepr bathtub of money coming from airline passengers each day each day.

Perhaps it is a competition amongst the extra 100 (airline funded) managers we now have to see who can be the stupidest.

We must be getting close to a 1:1 Manager:Money Earner ratio surely?

Just imagine if they (still) had ATC licences - we might even be able to keep the airspace open most of the time.

Good idea - get rid of controllers, make them managers and then force the remaining controllers to do more overtime to cover the new shortfall of controllers.

How about.... No. How about you take your stupid ideas and shove them fair and square up your ever fattening bottom line. Come up with something resembling reality if you are serious as you claim about negotiating in good faith. So far all we have seen is a fanciful policy approaching human rights violations that must have been drafted by Peter Reith, Tony Abbott, Heather Ridout, Peter Hendy, John Howard, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, Robert Mugabe, Joseph Goebbels, Lucifer & The Solid Gold Dancers whilst they were freebasing some serious combinations of pharmacalogical product.

[Quokka]

How about this for a proposal...

1. Maximum number of shifts in a row that can be rostered or worked, including Standby, excluding Mutual Change of Shift, shall be six shifts. No less than two days off shall be rostered following a shift cycle. No less than four days off shall be rostered following a night shift. No controller shall attend for work following a night shift, including Standby, for a period of four days. No controller shall attend for more than six shifts in any ten day period. No controller shall be called to attend for duty during rostered days off.

2. One Standby Shift (Grey Day or Grey Evening) shall be rostered per month and shall be included in the normal rostered shift cycle.

3. Rosters shall be published three months in advance and shall include a period of twelve months of rostered shifts and Recreation Leave.

4. 48 days Annual Recreation Leave each year. No leave to be carried forward to subsequent years.

Pick a salary that is commensurate to what you are earning now with overtime and Market Forces determine. That is the salary that every controller, regardless of years-of-service, or position in the ATC management-determined social pecking order, will be paid. No management-discretion progression through increments.

Nothing left to interpretation and manipulation will result in no dispute, no harassment, no adversarial relationship... no morale problem. The service gets provided and everyone is happy.

Keep It Simple.

[ferris]

The only further suggestion I can offer is the introduction of an ATC allowence. ie. if you are in a traffic separating position, you get an allowence of say, $50k per year. Then they could have a 'salary' component of say, $130k per year plus the allowence for those who actually have sep responsibilities. That way, managers can earn more than their underlings, say $140k per year, and everyone would be happy.
Govt happy- can announce salary reductions across the organisation
Controllers happy- more money at the end of the day
Managers happy- their salary is higher than their subordinates, and they wont feel guilty about collecting huge salaries when their actual responsibilities dont' warrant it (not separating traffic, not working shiftwork etc. Basically at the level of a call centre team leader- except paid more for some reason).

[Jungmeister]

Ferris,

As a "former ATCO" presumably in OZ you will no doubt remember that is how it always used to be. Do you also remember the quality of people who were inclined to be "managers"? Do you remember when the ATC system was managed by Engineers? Do you remember the mutterings from all the talented people in the field?
The workers are never likely to be happy - no matter what the system.
J

[Quokka]

The workers are never likely to be happy - no matter what the system.

I agree... but it's the difference between watching them walk out the door... or staying and plugging in at the console, bitter and twisted or not. Which scenario do we need now?

[ferris]

J.

I agree that if being a manager will get you a pay reduction, then there are not going to be a lot of people interested. But where has paying managers more got the organisation? I really can't see the justification in having SO MANY people, not holding ratings, and getting paid SO MUCH. If AsA is truly a business, where does it get off paying people who are effectively doing the job of a call-centre team leader, getting paid close to 200k? It is my understanding that people who are not ATCs are now ALMs, so having a license isn't important. What justifies the salary? The organisation is screaming out for controllers- closing airpsace etc in INTERNATIONALLY EMBARRASSING FASHION, so there has to be something seriously wrong when they haven't got every man, woman and child capable of holding a rating, doing so.

But everyone who works there knows that. What will it take for the board or the minister to act? Instead, AsA pretends to enter EBA negotiations by telling the controllers what AsA wants to remove in the way of T&C? Unf***ing believable! Maybe some managers could go on a fact-finding trip around the world to see how actual businesses attract and retain talent? This stuff is brain-surgery, for sure.

The REALLY, REALLY sad thing is it could be a great place to work.

[Baileys]

August 11, 2008

THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority will restrict the number of passenger jets flying through uncontrolled skies, contradicting the Government's claims that the practice is perfectly safe.

The move is the first tacit admission by authorities that the risk of a mid-air collision in uncontrolled airspace in unacceptably high and that something needs to be done.

CASA has called on the air traffic control manager of Airservices Australia to place new restrictions on airspace when there is no air traffic controller available to monitor that portion of sky.

The move follows a series of articles in The Australian that have disclosed the dangers of uncontrolled airspace, highlighting safety warnings from pilots, air traffic controllers and aviation experts.

A shortage of air traffic controllers has increasingly left large parts of Australian skies uncontrolled, forcing pilots to rely on other pilots to avoid mid-air collisions.

The government-owned ASA has said repeatedly that the practice of flying in uncontrolled airspace, using only radio and visual sightings, is safe. But CASA now wants ASA to declare all uncontrolled airspace a "temporary restricted area" -- meaning no plane can fly in or out of this airspace without approval. This gives authorities a way to limit the number of planes that enter uncontrolled airspace and separate them more precisely before they enter the uncontrolled zone.

It means pilots will still be flying blind but with fewer other aircraft in the vicinity and better spacing, reducing the chances of a mid-air collision.

However, the new system could cause delays to those aircraft which are not approved to fly through the uncontrolled zone, adding to costs and inconvenience to passengers.

"We have asked (ASA) to look at TRA as an alternative to (uncontrolled airspace) because it gives a greater ability to be aware of all the traffic in that airspace," said CASA spokesman Peter Gibson.

A spokesman for ASA, Richard Dudley, said the service agreed late last week to CASA's request for uncontrolled airspace in Australia to be designated as TRA.

CASA has been increasingly frustrated by the air safety implications arising from a shortage of air traffic controllers.

The shortage has come about through mismanagement by ASA, which has failed to recruit enough controllers to offset large numbers of retirements and poaching from overseas.

ASA accuses air traffic controllers of contributing to the problem by calling in sick and refusing to work extra shifts in an effort to highlight the shortage and help their forthcoming wage claim.

Last Friday, a massive area of airspace between Brisbane and Cairns was left uncontrolled between midnight and 5.30am after a controller called in sick.

According to an ASA "service interruption" report on the incident, six other controllers declined to cover the sick man's shift while four others were uncontactable.

ASA head Greg Russell has accused a small group of "renegade" controllers of leaving the skies uncontrolled to boost their industrial clout in looming wage negotiations.

But the air traffic control union, Civil Air, says ASA is looking to deflect blame for its own failings. "Airservices seems bent on shifting the blame to those who have been holding a failing system together, rather than accepting the consequences of its own mismanagement of human resources across an extended period of time," Civil Air president Robert Mason said.

The Sydney tower alone has lost four controllers through resignation or retirement in the past two weeks.

[Super G]

mmmmmmm..........on second thoughts, I think I'll just stay here and sail, dive and fish on my days off. How do I withdraw that application...........??

Great article. At least someone in the press has finally used the words 'AsA' and 'mismanagement' in the same sentence.

Good luck to you guys.........would the last one to leave please turn off the runway lights..............

G

[Showa Cho]

Super G: Regards your post on the previous page, AsA have recruited a few foreign controllers (half of whom have left - now there's another story) of late using the 457 Visa method. If they now start hiring Aussies, I think the whole argument about not having enough Aussies to do the job would go out the window. Their use of the 457 Visa would then come under scrutiny. Maybe that is why you haven't had the 'call-up'?

SC.

[west atc]

Super G: Regards your post on the previous page, AsA have recruited a few foreign controllers (half of whom have left - now there's another story) of late using the 457 Visa method. If they now start hiring Aussies, I think the whole argument about not having enough Aussies to do the job would go out the window. Their use of the 457 Visa would then come under scrutiny. Maybe that is why you haven't had the 'call-up'?

SC.

Huh? :confused:

ASA didn't get as many applications for the OS recruiting scheme as they originally thought and have now shelved the idea because they weren't prepared to pay enough to attract quality people.

They thought that there would be enough willing to sacrifice decent wages to come and work for "The world's leading ANSP" :ugh:

The Sydney tower alone has lost four controllers through resignation or retirement in the past two weeks.

Melbourne Centre is about to lose at least three controllers in the next 7 weeks, possibly more as the Irish are now offering jobs and they have a lot of Aussies in their sights.

Me included! :}

West ATC is about to become Irish ATC but not in the West of Ireland. :D

[SM4 Pirate]

I think the whole argument about not having enough Aussies to do the job would go out the window. Their use of the 457 Visa would then come under scrutiny. They are not 'sponsoring' people anymore; because rumour has it, Australians rejected from the recruitment processes, made themselves aware to the politicians who asked the right questions.

Why are Australians (with ATC licences) being rejected whilst we are simultaneously recruiting non Australians.

[max1]

In the days when we had to put in hour sheets in the 80s (the old form 1964), good people still went 'out the back' and took a paycut because they were committed. If they didn't do the shiftwork they didn't get the penalties.
It wasn't 'fair' to them and a composite salary was brought in, so those who were doing procedures,etc weren't financially disadvantaged.
This led to the rise of some people empire building away from traffic.
There are still good people not working traffic and doing office work.

What has happened was that the back office pay was aligned with operational, shiftworking ATC wages. They have now gone from the point where people doing back office work got less, to where they got parity, to now they are getting a 30-100% premium to those working traffic on a 24/7 roster.

It is these people who will be the arbiters of what is reasonable when you are asked to attend for work on your ROSTERED DAY OFF. I think a $165-200thousand package to not work 24/7 and to not move traffic is an exorbitant pay package to foist on the airlines, especially when we now don't have enough warm bodies to keep airspace open.

[Super G]

mmmmmmm...........interesting theory about that 457 visa business SC!

As I have permanent residency in two foreign (ie non Australian) countries maybe I should have applied under the 457 conditions! :ugh::confused:

[ferris]

Oops. Dont want too many facts getting out, do we?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day Max1,

Ref the 'Composite Salary'...I think you might find that, as I recall, the composite salary was introduced by the then spin doctors as being the panacea for those who were sick on weekends to not have to attend work just to receive the then penalty rates, which MAY in some cases compromise safety, and also to avoid passing on their flu or whatever to the rest of the crew....

AsA would introduce the composite salary so that the 'penalties' would be included in your 'ordinary salary', so that the above would not occur at no cost to the employee.......So Good So Far...we all thought...but what was the catch?? ('They' don't do nuthin without a benefit to 'them'...)

So the 'Composite' 30% or so was introduced, and accepted by the staff, and, the catch was....

AsA got rid of all of the Regional Pay Staff clerks!!

Nobody saw THAT coming!:=

Some 16 or so staff in WA Region Pay Office got the chop!

Similarly, other regions ditto, I would imagine.

All pay calculations were subsequently transferred to the ONE Pay Office in ML, whose computors could quite easily handle the same composite salary being paid to all staff across OZ, with the late inclusion of O/T and E/D, being entered into the system by your own local 'Staff Clerk' - usually your CA3 in the front office.

Huge staff savings, and the beginning of the 'Big Redundo Program'....which continues to this day.........

The 'Spin Offs' that you mention, were I believe, just that! As far as I am aware, there was no 'intent' to make the 'manager's pay' better - although I have little doubt that this MAY have been stated to the managers to get their votes....

The Big 'Downside' to AsA? They seem to have failed to realise at the time, that the offshoot was that there was only ONE SALARY figure for each 'grade' of staff, and THAT salary now became the "Salary For Super" purposes. But, it was now too late to change.

This meant that the redundo packages were now calculated on the new salary rate, i.e. we all got an immediate increase of around 30% on our 'Final Salaries'....multiplied by the various factors of years of service etc...

"THANKYOU VERY MUCH" was all most of us could say!!!:D:D

Anyhow, sorry for the slight thread drift - but I did think that the 'Composite' concept needed to be 'sorted'.......

Cheers:ok::ok:

[max1]

Griffo,
Thanks for the implications on a personal level, going back a wee bit further I believe it was ATC (rightly or wrongly) that brought in the 17% leave loading whilst on holidays.
That is when we went on leave we lost the shift penalties because we weren't working shifts. It was argued that we actually took a paycut when we had holidays and our pay was less than when we were actually at work. The IRC of the time agreed and gave us a 17% leave loading, in the days of rabid unionism others dived on board, and it ended up that most ended up with it, even if they didn't work shift work. Go figure?

As far as I was concerned it had nothing to do with sick leave, but all to do with looking after experienced, committed people who were taking a paycut to do what people who are now getting grossly inflated wages are doing.

[40years]

Max 1,

From my recollection 90% of your 'experienced, committed people' were not such.
Some of the reasons that they were in the off-line jobs were

(a) They wanted to get off shift work
(b) They wanted to get off control duties
(c) They were interested in 'techo' or procedural stuff
(d) They wanted to 'manage' and wield power
(e) They were drafted
(f) They were marginal, if not dangerous, in the field.
(g) They were medically unfit to exercise a licence.

Note that I said 90% - there were a few good ones

The composite salary was introduced to widen the pool and hopefully entice some of the 'experienced, committed' and competent people out of the field and into the office.

[max1]

40 years,
Jeez your harsh, but I'm not going to quibble.I've only got 25 years.

Cheers Max1

[undervaluedATC]

little thread dift there folks

from www.crikey.com.au (http://www.crikey.com.au/)

Rationing the skies

Ben Sandilands writes:
Source: Crikey.com.au (11 August 2008)
So much for "renegade" air traffic controllers causing chaos in the skies.

On Friday at its Melbourne centre AirServices Australia offered ATC officers three hours extra pay per shift at "additional duty" rates just to be rostered in advance as on-call replacements for anyone who reports absent for work, mainly during evenings or over weekends.

In recent days the chief executive officer of AirServices Australia, Greg Russell, has been blaming ‘renegades’ for calling in sick to add pressure to pay negotiations.

Civil Air, the union, has maintained the real problem is Russell’s incompetence in recruiting and training staff during a period of high attrition due to retirements or better job opportunities abroad.

An official summary of that collective negotiation meeting is here for those who want to study a management trying to buy its way out of a human resources crisis of its own making.

At the same time AirServices was forced to agree to CASA demands for a rationing of controlled air space by a procedure for declaring "temporarily restricted areas" when there are insufficient controllers available to man the radar consoles responsible for the safe separation of aircraft between or near major Australian cities.

Under the current stop gap measures both AirServices and CASA had tried to maintain the fiction that international, domestic and private aircraft could be safely left to control their own ‘separation’ in a free-for-all situation that led to angry protests from the airlines.

That fiction is now over, after CASA officers saw first hand how risky the process was, and Qantas, Virgin Blue and the International Civil Aviation Organisation went public with their concerns.

If some tricky details can be ironed out airliners approaching zones where AirServices can’t provide service will have to apply for permission to enter, meaning rationing can be enforced to keep jets very far apart.

The "tricky" part is international air space. Australia has the responsibility to control large areas of Oceanic airspace. Jets that are mid way along very long flights to Australia cannot be denied access to "temporarily" restricted zones without compromising the compulsory fuel reserves they carry for bad weather diversions at their arrival point.

A spokesman for CASA said a starting time for the new ‘temporary’ arrangements cannot be announced unless this problem is overcome.
These two developments should be a wake up call to Treasury if not Infrastructure. AirServices is a substantial profit centre for government.
Now it is proposing money for nothing for staff just to be available for duty, and being compelled to further reduce its air traffic revenues by diverting, or denying access to, the airliners that are its customers.

And in case you missed the embedded link to the official summary (or the crikey site is slow) it contains this little proposal in relation to "reasonable overtime":

1. There is an obligation on air traffic controllers to perform reasonable overtime where operational requirements make it necessary.

2. That obligation entails an expectation that ATCs will be contactable by telephone and if calls are missed, to call back promptly after the call from Airservices has been received. An ATC should only remain uncontactable or unable to respond promptly where there are special reasons for this being so.

3. Subject to paragraphs 4 and 5, ATCs will agree to work an additional shift or hours when requested to do so.

4. If the ATC has already worked an average of one or more additional hours shift per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request or no less than an average of 7 additional hours per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request, they shall be entitled to decline the request.

5. Further, Airservices will not require an ATC to perform an additional shift or additional hours if Airservices is satisfied that there are substantial and compelling reasons which make it reasonable for them not to be required to do so.

6. If an ATC does not agree to a request to work an additional shift and neither of the conditions mentioned in paragraphs 4 or 5 exist, Airservices shall be entitled to take appropriate disciplinary action in relation to their conduct.


So effectively, they want me to be on call, always contactable, and presumably not travel too great a distance away from work on my supposed days off.

And if I have the temerity to refuse to do an overtime shift, and they don't like my reason for not doing so (eg: " I just want a day off") , they want to be able to PUNISH ME.

how's that for work/life balance?http://www.civilair.asn.au/smf/Smileys/default/huh.gifhttp://www.civilair.asn.au/smf/Smileys/default/huh.gif
http://www.civilair.asn.au/smf/Themes/default/images/icons/modify_inline.gif

[Quokka]

Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948


Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

[undervaluedATC]

How can this be legal?

Beats me.

But apparently, AsA would like us to "sign off" on this proposed "memorandum of understanding" BEFORE the EBA expires in December.

If we are "only 17 controllers short" as per TFN, why do we need a policy of forced overtime?

[Howabout]

I have read this thread with some interest and have only one question to ask - is anybody accountable?

[Baileys]

Only an insane person or group of people would 'sign off' on anything at all when currently within a period of negotiating pay and conditions. Everything comes at a price - this proposal should come at an extremely high price for Airservices, not an insulting 3 hours of overtime.

The accountability question is spot on. It is just layer after layer after layer of buck passing, lying, denial and outright incompetence within Airservices management.

As a 'company', Airservices international reputation is rapidly being destroyed by their own stupidity. I think it is called unconscious incompetence - correct me if I'm wrong.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey controllers, good luck in your upcoming battle.

This O/T clause amazes me and for your own sake do not agree to it. More importantly do not under any circumstance sign away your ability to withdraw your additional time in a MOU just prior to your agreement expiring.

The LAME dispute with Qantas was successful because of our withdrawal of labour in the name of overtime. ASA relies on it and you own it.

good luck

[Quokka]

Nope, they try it on and in the process, coerce and intimidate staff into signing documents that absolve (or attempt to absolve) them from responsibility... if you sign, they get what they want but the staff member has no recourse to legal action because they have been forced to sign a document that removes any liability from management.

In the 80's, in my first year of employment with the organisation, as a Flight Data Officer, the Industrial Officer (company, not Union) for the region drafted a letter in which I would agree to the removal all of my individual rights to Union representation. I was ordered to attend the unit Manager's office in which the Acting Manager, seeking to force an amendment to my conditions of work, presented the letter to me and told me to sign it (later denied in a higher Manager's office). I refused and was then told "right, your suspended until we decide what we're going to do with you."

I sought assistance from the controllers, who immediately contacted the Civilair President, who contacted the GM, who removed the Acting Manager. I was then ordered to attend the Regional Manager's office who stated "I don't like being told by Canberra how to run my Region".

Ahhh... the good old days... except, almost two decades later, in my last year of employment, an Air Traffic Control Line Manager, attempted to coerce a controller into signing a document by threatening to suspend his license if he didn't agree... then removed the second page of a three page document that he had signed and replaced it with an amended page which was then represented to a third party as a true and correct document as signed by the controller.

Nothing has changed. :=

[Howabout]

So, who's accountable (I've asked this before) for the situation you are now in?

To me it's fairly bloody obvious - suits.

[Vampire 91]

40 Years.

I think you are right on the reasons but perhaps a little harsh on the percentages. There were some very good and highly capable people in that group who, through circumstances often beyond their control, may have otherwise been forced out of a job but were looked after by the management and they continued to make a significant contribution to the organisation. In more recent years that sort of charity on the part of management disappeared and the staff ceased to be people and became just numbers which had to be reduced.

I shake my head when I read some of the postings on the recent happenings in AsA. It's a bit sad really. There was a time it was a great place to work. When I talk to former colleagues they all refer to working in ATC in the 70's as 'fun'. The fun seems to have gone out of it.

[40years]

V91, max1,

OK, perhaps I was a bit harsh, but I was trying to dispel the aura that all the off-line people in the past were knights.

I agree that the Airservices and its predecessors of the past and their culture are gone, and I trace this directly to the arrival of TFN.

It used to be said that, if you were in trouble then AsA was the employer to have. There are many examples of ... (I will use the word 'cripples' but not in the literal sense - perhaps people who had been wounded in one way or another) who were given great (and expensive) support to remain usefully working, and who were given a sense of being valued.

Sadly, no more!

[Binoculars]

V91, max1,

OK, perhaps I was a bit harsh, but I was trying to dispel the aura that all the off-line people in the past were knights.

I agree that the Airservices and its predecessors of the past and their culture are gone, and I trace this directly to the arrival of TFN.



Gee, that's a bit harsh. To tell the truth, I don't even know what TFN means, though it appears to apply to Mr Russell. I haven't been in an active position since March 2007, and Russell seemed to me a couple of steps above his predecessor, but in hindsight the staffing position has been pathetically ignored and he has to take responsibility.

His positon looks untenable, but I question whether there is anybody else who can do better, given the underlying tenet that the bottom line is the only line.

Let's face it, the golden days of aviation are gone, the bean counters now run the show.

[Baileys]

Two First Names

[ferris]

the bean counters now run the show Then play their game! To my mind, if they have stupidly painted themselves into a corner by trying to save money in moronic ways (such as slashing training during a period when sustained training was required), then make them pay. Signing away your days off? Just bizarre. How about AsA RAISE THE OVERTIME RATE to the point where people volunteer? That is market forces. That is how any other industry operates. Tradesmen dont earn 300k p.a. by accident. THEY QUOTE JOBS, AND PEOPLE PAY THEM. My brother (tradey) often worked 6 days a week during the last financial year- BUT HE CHARGED LIKE A WOUNDED BULL. If the customer didn't like his rates, he didnt get the job.

This mess is AsA's making. It followed on from their slash and burn. If people no longer count, and it's just a business now- then MAKE THEM PAY. Don't be shy. If it takes charging $5000 per overtime shift to help AsA find enough staff to enable you to have your days off, as ENTITLED, then so be it. Speak to them in their language.

[wolf_wolf]

Hear hear Ferris ! :D

Keep it purely mathematical, not emotional. Then read Sun Tzu's Art of War...

[bekolblockage]

There was a time it was a great place to work. When I talk to former colleagues they all refer to working in ATC in the 70's as 'fun'. The fun seems to have gone out of it.

Which is why many of us left more than a decade ago.

I can't find the quote but someone earlier said that a large number of AsA staff were "poached" by overseas ANSPs.
That is simply not true. No organization, to my knowledge, actively pursued AsA staff - some of us simply saw the chance for a change and a broadening of our experience and had the intestinal fortitude to sign that resignation letter.
Whether or not I return to AsA one day, one thing is for certain - the experience I have gained is immeasurable compared to that sitting doing the same thing I was more than a decade ago.
To anyone contemplating doing the same - do it now. Life is too short to sit wondering what if.

P.S. If they ring you up and insist on you attending on your day off, feel free to use a well worn phrase from possibly the best Flow controller in history (yes, you RD) - "Go F:mad:k your hat!"

[slackie]

"Go F:mad:k your hat!"
Brilliant...just spat coffee all over the place!

[fl610]

I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder.
They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes.
They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.

I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on-time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn".
I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they'll find the write-up when they look in the book.
I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up.
I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.

I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort.
I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do.
I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold.
I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money….but this too may change.
I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now I collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.

I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference and disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One. My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.

When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar - I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FOs again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity - I will make them pay.
When they recall F/As for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers - I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract - a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.

My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me. Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter? I'm not looking for clauses in a contract, I'm looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again. Until then, I am an Army of One…And I'm not alone!

[No Further Requirements]

....or just remain drunk for the duration of your days off....now there's an idea!

Cheers,

NFR.

[C-change]

NFR, don't give away our secret mate. All the other bastards will come around to join us and then a new centre will suddenly be built in your shed.


To the rest of you shattered an unhappy people in ASA, leave. I did and it was simply the best thing that I ever did in my working career. It doesn't matter what you do in life, if your not valued or wanted by your employer, go elsewhere or do something else. Life is too short.

You will be much happier with your life once you make the break from ASA. trust me. :ok: