Belvedere......

[Guzlin Adnams]

Interesting article in Janes. Doesn't look anything new though.
Jane's Defence News (http://defence.janes.com/)

Didn't think that the MoD owned Odiham so what would be recouped from that?:confused:

[pr00ne]

Guzlin Adnams,

"Didn't think that the MoD owned Odiham so what would be recouped from that?"

Oh dear! How about the saving that could be made by NOT owning or running it?

Benson and Odiham will be FAR more saleable as development land than Lyneham or Yeovilton.

[High_lander]

Yeovilton floods all the time, so that's pretty much useless!


What about Puma? Do they not come under the umbrella of JHC?

[green granite]

I thought this thread was going to be about a twin rotor helicopter, perhaps I'm showing my age. :{

[diginagain]

Yeovilton floods all the time....................


Must come as a bit of a surprise to the incumbents.

[Guzlin Adnams]

Thanks PrOOne, very interesting.
I've been led to believe that Lyneham needs a considerable ammount of money spent on it as the the place has been somewhat run down in recent years. I've seen it mentioned on this forum before and have certainly heard it mentioned in my profesional life.
Not as bad as Scampton obviously but not that good either. When you use facilities such as this continually over many years maintenance is required and as is usual for most of the MoD's estate not enough maintenance has been carried out. Result, a run down facility which would cost a massive amount of money to refurbish, more to convert and of course there's the little matter of moving a large fleet of helicopters and running them at the new facility. It all sounds like a lot capital expenditure to me. In the long term I suppose the bean counters would be happy however.
I'd love to see Lyneham stay open however as it's 494 Hectares offers more opportunity than Odiham's 263, but in terms of saving cost, forget it, for at least 20 years! Also surely you don't believe that the MoD would capture a reasonable price for Odiham and Benson and keep hold of the money as well. :\
Take the hook out before you thro me in the keep net will you....:ok:

[FantomZorbin]

green granite

Me too ... wasn't it the mil. version of the Bristol 180? My first helo flight was in a Belvedere from South Cerney ... KOS Flight Check In! :sad:

[Farfrompuken]

Since the move to BZN from LYE will cost WAY more than planned and the date that we actually start saving money is well into next century, I doubt if there will be more moves planned.

CATARA, I suggest, is no longer financially motivated, rather an unwillingness from way up to admit that it was a flawed plan from the outset.

[spheroid]

Yeovilton floods all the time, so that's pretty much useless

The last time Yeovilton flooded was 1981.

[green granite]

FantomZorbin According to this site it was a type 192, which may just had it's designator chaged as it was the mil version. restoration project here.

Restoring the Bristol Belvedere XG452 (http://www.hmfriends.org.uk/restorbelv.htm)

[VinRouge]

Since the move to BZN from LYE will cost WAY more than planned and the date that we actually start saving money is well into next century, I doubt if there will be more moves planned.

Perhaps a change of government will inspire a U-turn, without facing the political fallout that would occur currently?

It would make sense for LYE to remain open, for no other reason than to maintain an alternate for when the weather clags in at BZN. No use having an AT centre of excellence when half the transport fleet has divved all round the UK...

[mstjbrown]

Green granite

We had Belvederes in Aden during the Radfan troubles. They had,I think, an avpin starting system which was prone to cause fires when they were being wound up. The word on my squadron was, if you were near a Belvedere being started to watch closely, then you could be a witness at the subsequent enquiry rather than a member of the Board.

[green granite]

Perhaps that might have something to do with their relatively short time in service? 9 years doesn't seem very long does it?

[Green Flash]

No use having an AT centre of excellence when half the transport fleet has divved all round the UK...

Wonder what the cost would be to divert aircraft compared to keeping EGDL open? Just a thought. Remember, it's all driven by accountants, so just count the costs in cold hard cash. Forget the massive embuggeration factor for the humans, the accountants will only count the extra fuel/landing charges/bus hire/whatever etc etc. The fact that Tommy Atkins is home from the 'stan late means naff all to them.:(

[Dundiggin']

I had my first helicopter trip as a 'spacey' :suspect: in a Belvedere at Odiham. It was great! I then joined the 'real' Air Force as a Clerk and my first posting was to...Flying Wing HQ at Odiham. At that time we had WCU - Wessex Conversion Unit, TPCU - Twin Pioneer Conversion Unit and BCU - Belvedere Conversion Unit. The Coventry Cathedral spire was lifted by a Sqn Ldr who susbsequently became a 'wheel' at the Air Historic Branch (can't remember his name). In later years I served on Pumas (at Odiham again!) with a pilot (Short Fat Stan!) who used to fly Belvederes and he reckoned the Avpin start cartridges were bloody dangerous! So much so that he said he would climb into the cockpit to prime the switches/levers for the start and then press the 'tit' whilst standing outside the cockpit! :eek: I believe the early demise of the Belvedere was because the bloody engines used to blow up! This caused a few disasters in Kuching/Singapore over the jungle and hence the early exit of the 'flying longhouse'. The urgent requirement to replace it brought the Boeing sales team and the first Chinook to Odiham in about '64. Boeings were hopeful of a sale and despite the Chinook being well impressive the financial choice in those days was for the Chinook or Harrier.........so SH lost out for a few more years.

[Archimedes]

John Dowling is the chap you're thinking of, Dundiggin'

Sadly no longer with us, but his Telegraph Obituary is here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1350613/Wing-Commander-John-Dowling.html)

[Dundiggin']

Very many thanks for the 'nudge'. That's the chap. I read the 'obit' - brilliant! Accurate - cos he could be a miserable bugger on occasions. Sad that he's no longer with us but many thanks once again.

[mstjbrown]

Green Granit

To continue with this double thread:-

We lost one Belvedere in the Radfan - but not as a result of a start-up fire.
Also in those less organised days the Belvedere people used to shop around for door gunners. The Shackleton people with experience of the 20 mills in the front turret were particularly popular because they also dealt well with the intercom and stoppages.

Soon after the Belvedere crash the remainder were shipped out to the Far East on one of the carriers.

Never a great success I think

[Wader2]

Nine years was not that bad at the time. The Mark 1 Vulcans only lasted about 9 years before they were superceded. Look at all the Marks of hunter, Javelin and even Lightning.

Many aircraft of that period were almost prototypes as we were at the bleeding edge of technology.