US puts 3 KC-135Rs forward to the UK for SIGINT

[Razor61]

Following on the thread some months ago regarding the RC135s that the UK were looking at to replace the Nimrod R1.
I got an email just now from AIN written by Chris Pocock stating that the US have "apparently" put forward 3 KC135R airframes to be converted to "British specs" for the SIGINT role. L3 are said to be doing the conversion with their Project Helix being installed into the airframes but stated that their Project Helix could be installed into most airframes and hinted at the Nimrod MRA4 also.

If we do buy these KC135R airframes the Helix is installed will they modify them in the same way as the RC-135s with the Bottle nose radome or keep them as standard airframes only distinguishable from normal KC135s from the masses of antennas and a few bumps on the airframe?

[Guzlin Adnams]

:ok:Second hand A340's from Qatar.....bags of space and power.
Common type rating with 330-200's too.

[Jackonicko]

Chris has got hold of the wrong end of this stick. These will be bog standard RC-135s - but converted from KC-135Rs.

[Razor61]

Jackonicko
So where are these RC-135s coming from, Storage at Davis Monthan? Assume they won't be from the current inventory.

[Red Snow]

To be fair, the article in question doesn't actually say that the 'RAF RC-135s' will be fitted with the Helix kit.

L-3 handles the RJ fleet as well as the Helix contract - who's to say that the two aren't quite similar anyway?

[Flight Detent]

"A340"....."power"...all in the same sentence!!

In my Boeing saturated world, the A340 was always referred to as the one that required the curvature of the earth to takeoff!!! :E

[VinRouge]

:E Bit like a 'K' then?

[Pontious]

Flight Detent

I think he was meaning the A340-500/600 series. They do have stacks of power compared to the A340-200/300 series.
:ok:

[rolandpull]

Its got to be worth doing the 340's for the leather settee's and walnut finished bar just behind the crew/MAMS rest area - oops, 1st class layflats.

[VARIABLE_KNIFE]

When this proceeds, will we see 51 Sqn move to Mildenhall for colocation of type? If i were a betting man i say that you might well indeed. :=

Damn it! Corrected by an ALM, a fixed wing one at that :} Thanks!

[c130 alm]

A better man........ or a betting man?

[ZH875]

From that wonderful local newspaper The Lincolnshire Echo (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156130&command=displayContent&sourceNode=242285&home=yes&more_nodeId1=156139&contentPK=21176445&bustcache=&1217325054116#views)

Nimrod spy planes that fly over the skies of Lincolnshire may be scrapped, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

The MoD is considering axing three Nimrod spy planes based at RAF Waddington and replacing them with American RC-135 Rivet Joints.

The spy planes, operated by 52 Squadron, are due for an upgrade as part of a £3bn programme to refurbish the entire Nimrod fleet.

But the upgrades are now well behind schedule and millions over budget.

An MoD spokesman said: "We are considering a range of options to continue the capability currently provided by the Nimrod R1 until around 2025 - namely airborne electronic surveillance.

"As part of this work we are currently considering acquisition of the Rivet Joint system as an option to meet the capability requirement."

The decision to look at the future of all Nimrods follows an inquest where its aged design was blamed for a crash in Afghanistan which claimed the lives of 14 servicemen.

Craig Hoyle of Flight International said: "There have certainly been quite a lot of rumours about getting the Rivet Joints and the fact that the MoD has confirmed it is under consideration is significant."

The BBC must get their reporters from the local newspapers.

[Razor61]

When this proceeds, will we see 51 Sqn move to Mildenhall for colocation of type? If i were a betting man i say that you might well indeed

Surely, although the Rivet Joints are not similar in respects to the tactical end and in some cases the engines, i assume the RAF operated RJ's will stay at Waddington as they already have a similar type there being the E-3D Sentry.
I don't think the UK will operate the old RJ's with noisy smokey engines and go more towards the larger turbofan powered RJ's so even more commonality with the E-3D surely?

[Navy_Adversary]

It all sounds a bit Squeaky Beaky to me:cool:

[In Tor Wot]

It's no wonder that there are a pile of spare RJs:

Global Hawk RQ-4B (http://www.defense-update.com/products/g/globalhawk_rq4b.htm)

"Another payload scheduled to be installed on the Global Hawk is the Airborne Signals Intelligence Program (ASIP) SIGINT payload, capable of monitoring electronic signals up to 500 km away. ASIP will augment the sensor suite used on previous aircraft. The US Air Force plans to field 26 Block 30 aircraft which will share the same platform of Block 20 and 40 but will be equipped with the ASIP systems instead of the standard EO/SAR payload. These aircraft will become operational by 2012 augmenting the units currently operating by the 9th Recce wing at BealE AFB."

So why don't we take a leaf out of their book and leapfrog the next airframe straight to a UAV platform that has longer endurance, greater range, less risk (to the highly qualified and experienced operators/analysts) and is available now?

[speeddial]

ASIP won't replace RJs, but the U-2's Senior Glass kit when the U-2 retires, although the U-2 will also carry ASIP for a few years.

[knowitall]

Razor61

your correct

kc135r's are fitted with CFM 56's.


JTO

707 - carries the AWACS kit with ease, yep

707 - carries the RJ kit with ease, its not a 707

707 - carries the ASTOR kit with ease... ive been told it doesn't carry it a high as a GX, which is a limitation, on the other hand no need to ship a ground based trailer about the place

[Razor61]

There has been a RJ endlessly circling AARA12 out west of St Mawgan for hours on end the past week and up nearly everyday on test flights.
Does anyone know if this is to do with the familiarisation programme for the UK's RJ force? If so, they are not hanging about.

[brickhistory]

707 - carries the ASTOR kit with ease... ive been told it doesn't carry it a high as a GX, which is a limitation, on the other hand no need to ship a ground based trailer about the place

With ease? Maybe better said 'with wheeze.'

The E-8C is a phenomenal bit of wizardry right up until they put it on used 707s with JT8Ds. Gas guzzling, underpowered, endlessly leaking pieces of sh1t. But other than that......

Still, the crap engines made for nice TDYs in my day since we couldn't stay at places close the fight.

Not so much anymore.....(sorry guys/gals)

[knowitall]

"The E-8C is a phenomenal bit of wizardry right up until they put it on used 707s with JT8Ds."

i have to admit i'm confused that in the grand scheme of the USAF's budget they've not not found the cash to fit them with CFM's if there is one thing you'd want the extra endurance/height on it'd be that?

[XV277]

The E-8C is a phenomenal bit of wizardry right up until they put it on used 707s with JT8Ds. Gas guzzling, underpowered, endlessly leaking pieces of sh1t. But other than that......


Was the original plan to to fit it on new build aircraft, until Boeing closed the 707 line (after building ZH107)? Or was the cancellation of new build the reason the line closed?

[brickhistory]

My understanding was the decision to put the system on used 707s was the cost was supposed to be significantly less than buying new. Thus the USAF would get the system it wanted in something like the numbers it wanted.

In the end, buying 'well used' didn't save either money or get the numbers it really wanted. Think of it as the proud prototype model for the F-22 procurement. (Remember the one guy who argued endlessly about buying 'used' DC-10s instead of whatever new tanker does get eventually built? All I could think of was this example during that torment.)

At the timel, the US Congress wanted to kill it due to costs. "Why do we need it with the Cold War over?"

I do not know the relationship or timeline regarding the 707 manufacturing line and the E-8C, sorry.

There is a program underway (open source) to re-engine the E-8C. I don't believe it will be with CFMs, but I've been away for too long to be in the know anymore (if ever). The program was wanted much earlier, but other priorities kept taking the money. Sound familiar?


Apologies for the thread creep. Would it be the slightest bit cheaper to have only a few -R models refitted than to finish the original contract?