Flying Schools and Fuel Prices

[WIKI44]

How is the current fuel price scenario affecting flying schools? I started training in early 2007, and the price for avgas was about $1.15/litre. By the time I finished it was about $1.65/litre. I'm not in Australia anymore, but from what hear, it is close to about $2/litre. I was glad I didn't have to pay a fuel surcharge during my training. However, I know of atleast one big YSBK school that has recently started a charging a fuel surcharge.
Most schools are usually just on the verge of closing anyway. Have things become much worse now?

Just curious to hear from any instructors or students and their experiences with the increasing fuel prices.

wiki

[MCKES]

I think now on top of the increased aircraft hire cost that I am paying another $10 fuel surcharge for a C172. The cost is getting ridiculous :ugh:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Fuel was 0.48 when I started training.

Mind you, back then you would just write "48" and everyone would know you meant cents.

Today you would assume 48 means it's $4.80.

Our dual price for a C152 has gone up $15 in 12 months and the CHTR rate in the Baron up $45 in six months :uhoh:

I noticed last night oil is trading back at $129. Anyone seen the pump price go down as quickly as it went up?

No didn't think so. :ugh:

[always inverted]

Yeah, our pump price for the car has dropped last night but missed how much it went down. I have been watching the price with intrest since last week and the price per barrell went down $12 over 3 days then crept back up and we never herd antthing about that, and that wa nearly 10%.
Last avgas price was for me, $2.08 inc gst, that increased to around 2.23 inc gst last monday...
Herd that jet a1 went up something like 15 cents over here.

[flog]

I paid $1.92 at YLBT last weekend.

[Islander Jock]

well over $2.00/litre in the more remote places now. Latest Shell pricelist has nothing under $1.90 anywhere.

[Bendo]

Perhaps because we go through a tanker load so slowly here, Scone AVGAS is still $1.87 :ok:

[Walrus 7]

Hard to say because I wet hire, but last reimbursement for fuel away was $1.75. I thought that was a bit high because I only paid $1.73 for the fuel I bought. Theoretically, I made money on the deal!

Walrus

[WIKI44]

How are the flying schools coping with all this?
With the influx of foreign students over the last 2 years, a lot of schools expanded quite aggresively. However, with the current downturn in the industry, resulting in fewer students, how are these schools planning on maintaining their large fleet, numerous instructors etc...?

[Ando1Bar]

However, with the current downturn in the industry, resulting in fewer students, how are these schools planning on maintaining their large fleet, numerous instructors etc...?


I don't think there is quite the downturn you speak of just yet. And where are these numerous instructors?

[WIKI44]

I don't know how exactly the Australian industry is facing the problem of rising fuel prices. That was the reason I posted this thread. The industry in India, for example, is suffering badly. Although, I think overly aggresive expansion plans and mismanagement are partly to blame for this. But, I think elsewhere as well, including the US, there have been many closures, and many more operators at the brink of closing down.

The school I trained at in Australia, increased the size of its fleet from 15 planes to about 35 planes, in less than a year. The number of instructors also doubled. A lot of the experienced and knowlegeable instructors found jobs with regional/charter operators. Still a whole bunch of new ones filled the ranks.

I saw a similar pattern at other schools in the airport. Many of these schools, including mine, were, almost exclusively, catering to students from south-east asia. Surely, the flow of new foreign students, and the large amounts of advance course payments, must have decreased substancially in recent months. How are these schools planning on maintaining such large fleets?

I know the industry in Australia was facing a revival just before I left. I'm interested to know if this upsurge has persisted, despite the cost of fuel, and what measures are being taken by operators to minimise the damage caused by the rising cost of gas.

From previous posts it seems that rental/training prices have increased substancially, and it is one way to mitigate rising costs for operators. However, every price increase brings with it a decrease in the number of people willing to pay for that service. Australia is a pretty expensive place in which to train, in the first place. Not only are hire charges quite expensive, but the cost of living is also pretty high. Of course, compared to the UK things aren't as bad, but in comparison, the US is way cheaper (especially now with the depreciation of the dollar). How are Australian flight schools planning on remaining competitive?

A previous poster mentioned that rates for a baron charter had increased by $45! Moreover, most of the planes in GA are old and fuel inefficient. Surely having to pay almost twice as much for fuel now, as compared to a year ago, must have a huge impact, no?

[Cap'n Arrr]

From previous posts it seems that rental/training prices have increased substanciallyNot as much as you'd think. The average hire rate for a 4 seat single goes up about 15$-20$ per financial year. It does add up, but many schools use last years rates if you pre-buy the hours. It's happened every year where I'm at, and at about every other school on the airport.

How are these schools planning on maintaining such large fleets?If they're smart, the cost of maintenance per flying hour will be included in the hire cost. If the aircraft don't fly due to the price of fuel going up, they don't need maintenance as often (takes longer to get to the 100 hrly, landing lights not being used don't get burnt out), so this one should sort itself out, provided the school has (or has access to) the facilities to keep the aircraft flying as often as possible (no 4 week backups for a nav light replacement)

I'm interested to know if this upsurge has persisted, despite the cost of fuel, and what measures are being taken by operators to minimise the damage caused by the rising cost of gas.For most smaller GA companies, the price is simply going up to match the cost of operation. Some less reputable ones are simply trying to keep employees wages (or other costs e.g. maintenance) at a minimum.

Not only are hire charges quite expensive, but the cost of living is also pretty high. Of course, compared to the UK things aren't as bad, but in comparison, the US is way cheaper (especially now with the depreciation of the dollar). How are Australian flight schools planning on remaining competitive?I've met (and taught) international students for whom it was cheaper to move to Australia, live here for a year and a bit, and pay for the flying and living, than it was for them to live at home with mum and dad for nothing, and go flying at the school down the road. It is much cheaper than most places in EU/Asia (as far as I can gather anyway).

And please, don't get me started on US schools. The situation in the US is terrible, there is what seems to be a fixed career path, where the new CPL does 500-1000hrs instructing, then goes to a regional (and gets paid significantly less for it than most Aus regionals).

The fact that most of the instructors are simply doing it because it is the easiest way to build hours DEFINITELY shows in the quality of their graduates. NOT ALL OF THEM ARE THAT BAD! But many students go there because of cheap rates and get quality corresponding to the cost. I know of at least one student who had a US PPL and was placed at a level in Australia corresponding to about the "Turning" lesson of GFPT training.:ugh:

Having said that, not all schools here are that great, and some schools in the US are pretty good, so looking back its a pretty big generalisation on my part, and I apologise if others think it's wrong, it's just my experience. Most international students I've asked say they come here because it is either cheaper than their home country, or because their country has a higher opinion of a CASA licence than it does of another one, or both.

Most of the planes in GA are old and fuel inefficient.Fly a Twin Comanche and tell me then if you think all old planes are inefficient:ok:

(and I know, you said most of them:O)

Hope that helps in some way, I'm open to criticism!