New DII(F) IT System

[Uncle Ginsters]

Our stn -a large Oxonian AT hub - is currently migrating to DII(F). On the face of it, it would appear to hinder productivity rather than assist it.
Does anyone already using it have any feedback on what it's like when the dust has settled?

Not the most exciting topic, I know, but one that has more than a few here a little flustered:confused:

[CounterSunk]

Also at the said AT Hub. Lots of rumour, not a lot of info on what is actually happening. Current IT network is adequate a best, routinely very flakey.

I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about the next few months.

[Beatriz Fontana]

CounterSunk,

You're in for a rocky ride, my friend. DII has not been the sweet bed of roses it promised (then again, anything was better than what we had). Most of the features presume that you have a terminal to yourself. As soon as you're sharing, as a lot of folks I know do, then the most basic applications go to rats. And F ain't gonna change that.

[Brown Job]

Being a long time DII/F user ....... please give me back my DII/C! We have had more downtime (sometimes litterally whole days) since we have had F than all those put before it. Plus since you now need it for entry to everything else; personal files, emails and JPA, when it goes down all my staff do is sit and play solitaire!

DII/F is :mad:

[spheroid]

Another excuse to go flying then....Hurrah for DII(F) then...

[Cpt_Pugwash]

UG & CS,
Beatriz and BJ have it right, expect a bumpy ride. Whatever you do, don't let the installation team (floorwalkers) go until you are completely happy with your workstation and it's configuration. If the same migration process is used as here at the 'Wood, your Business Unit Point of Contact (BUPOC) needs to be on the ball and keep chasing up all the identified defects.

I never thought I would say this, but come back DAWN, all is forgiven. My group migrated from DAWN onto DII(F) some 18 months ago and we are still waiting for some of our key software applications to be delivered via DII(F). After some 12 years, the DAWN system at the 'Wood was actually quite stable and all our specialist applications ran quite well. Then along came DII(F)! Just wait until you find out how much each call to the SPOC costs, never mind any Change Requests.

Oh, BTW, the intranet is still down "with technical problems", for the second day.

[Gnd]

One unit got DII(F) and through idleness, some were put on servers from their old job (other countries in some cases). It is over 3 weeks now and 1 person has the job of sorting it - the HELP!!! centre can't do it. Not efficient or useful.

On the plus side, they have had 3 weeks without e-mails and probably 3 more until people realise they are back?

[Pontius Navigator]

And you will have to learn a whole new raft of acronyms. At £7.3Bn they obviously had a whole office full of wanabee designers.

No longer do you have a CPU and VDU. Now you have a UAD!

I migrated but it took 4 weeks (they lost the application) to transfer me from DII/c to DII/f. In fact they didn't transfer me at all. I did the transfer by saving all my Dii/c emails and address book etc and documents and emailing them to my new account. When they did the 'transfer' they stated that information on Dii/c would not be transfered and that despite assurances last year that it would.

Then getting access is another WHOLE new ball game. I was lucky. I did an ISyO course 18 years ago so I was qualified. I was then able to get a password for my IMO but he has yet to do the security course. As for the rest of the guys - no chance. They have done the course to use Dii/f but they now await an AD to authorise their accounts - at a cost.

The AD is an Authorised Demander and, as of last week, Air Command had not decided who was going to be the AD.

Ah, love it when a plan comes to gether. One final thing, Dii/f guys (Atlas) come in pairs. Dii/c made do with one technician.

[CounterSunk]

Thankyou for the kind words and reassurance. I'm staggered that such a busy MOB is being subjected to sweeping change with next to no interaction with IT end users. Where are these 'floorwalkers' mentioned earlier in the thread? First user is apparently scheduled for October, do we all cutover together? :eek: Note to self: Ask for leave in October.

[Beatriz Fontana]

Will we still get Pinball in the games package on F? That's the only thing that got me through the DII C training!

[Uncle Ginsters]

Thanks the notes gents.
Had the Atlas guys on the Sqn today. They still seem to think that we have a full-time IT manager hiding on the Sqn somewhere, and don't seem to understand that 40+ pilots will all be using one of 2 or 3 terminals...sorry...UADs:ok:

Not to mention how the data is actually managed - that seems a confusing mess at the moment - has anyone used the new file registry structure yet?

It just smacks of a project pushed from above by an office-bound 'specialist' with little or no regard for how the end-users work.

And there was me thinking that IT should enable our productivity....:sad:

[George211]

DII(F) is no where near as bad as they say, it is in fact far far worse. It took them 14 weeks to set up my account and then they had set up the wrong role based email address. It then took a further 4 weeks to get the email address corrected. NB if you haven't previously had a DII(C) account you don't get a personal email address as that bit of F doesn't work.
And don't ask what is going to happen if they try to deploy FD.
:{

[dessert_flyer]

As someone who spends as little time as possible in front of a 'uad', im assuming this is some new kind of computer network. If this is the case, how is it going to manage alongside the changes currently being implemented, and of course i mean the well loved bocs package. And if this is as bad as all seem to suggest, how are we now going to access the all singing and dancing jpa??? is it that the RAF is just going to fall to bits???

[Wader2]

Uncle Ginster, don't worry about 40 pilots and only 2-3 UAD. You won't get 40 accounts :}

Beatriz, no worries, games are there.

pprune users will be partially fcuked. Under Dii/c you could log in to your IGS account every 6 months. With Dii/f you have to log in every time. progress.

George, I had both accounts on Dii/c now my personal account seems rather hidden. Better, when you open outlook the personal folders are collapsed and new mail is not notified. Great excuse to the boss "sorry Boss, didn't see it."

[Cpt_Pugwash]

One other thing... forget about seeing most of the pics on the PPRUNE threads whilst at work, as the DII funpolice block photo-sharing sites such as Photobucket, Flikr etc.

[Rossian]

Forgive a cynical old fart for intruding - but is this what the oficer B^**$dge meant when he brought up "network-enabled, agile, adaptable.........Blah " a year or so ago? I weep for you, I really do. Thank the Lord I'm no longer in.
The Ancient Mariner

[SaddamsLoveChild]

If my wife went down on me as much as DII has I would probably still be with her. It is a recognised as a threat to productivity and to Defence as a whole - but we've got it and its up to us to make it work like JPA.

[Wessex Boy]

I use to work for the IT supplier whose technology underpinned the DII(C) core nodes and from my side of the fence the roll-out seemed to go relatively smoothly.
Unfortunately we worked with the wrong Prime Bidder for DII(F).
I spent a lot of time with that bidder making sure that the fundamental principles of rollout, migration and info management were covered, I even put one of my best guys imbedded in their team full-time for a year...but we weren't selected.....

[Milarity]

The NAO report on DII says that current cost for 150,000 terminals is £7.1 billion. Thats £47,000 per pc.

[Gnd]

I am now convinced it is an expensive cr*p system but every cloud has a silver lining. I cant find my work and my boss can't find me on the system (nor can I). The extra time saved in not doing my work is spent logging on and trying to find the sticket on my desk for the IGS.

i can get onto JPA so have spent many happy hours putting in my quals and hours, ready to do it all again on Monday when the system hasn't saved them.

Oh how happy I am with the MoD!!!:bored:

[dallas]

It just smacks of a project pushed from above by an office-bound 'specialist' with little or no regard for how the end-users work.
There's a recurrent theme here - people who don't actually contribute directly towards aircraft operations are often oblivious to the difficulties they cause those who do. The list is long and distinguished, as ProjOs for everything ranging from IT 'upgrades' to additional fitness tests, to stat-obsessed bosses press on with their pet projects, often with little regard for - or increasingly to the detriment of - the Service's primary purpose: generating aircraft. Thereafter the primary task suffers as staff struggle to cope with disruption caused by premature 'upgrades', are blamed for not adapting to changes they're not briefed or trained on, and are forced to take on additional responsibilities as the burden increases. So people become more stressed as they're disabled by unstoppable and uncompromising, contract-driven change, mistakes are made and bosses concentrate on apportioning blame.

It's rubbish and I'm off. :bored:

[Green Flash]

Just wait until a certain defence agency is told to move - allegedly - it's bandwith eating data stream to DIIF:eek:

[CounterSunk]

Alarm bells are certainly ringing here now. Rumour has it that BOCS will not migrate to DII, although how we then access it is unknown (can we have STARS back please, it worked ;) ).

Do they also take all the old IT away and replace it with ATLAS stuff? Again rumour has it that all the decent large monitors which CIS gave us to view the BOCS planner will be replaced with a standard 'made in Hong Kong' Aldi special.

Lastly, again all rumour, we will be denied the Image Runners as printer/scanners and USB access won't be granted until Increment 3 (whatever that is).

Is there anyone out there who has a clear understanding of these things? (and yes, I've asked the on site 'experts', CIS Eng appear to be as much in the dark as the rest of us). :{

[Gnd]

I would guess that all you have heard is true - everything else bad has happened!!

[Green Flash]

everything else bad has happened!!

Oh yeh? Are there any plans to deploy DIIF to hot and sandy places .....:uhoh:

[Yeller_Gait]

(can we have STARS back please, it worked ;) ).

Things must be really bad!

Only a recent (forced) convert to Stars at Waddington this year, but it did nothing to help the worker, indeed it added numerous man hours to those chosen to manage the system.

Ok it might have been good for giving the bosses oversight of who was doing what, but if the bosses could not even be bothered to populate the system ... No, it really did not make things better at Waddington. (so far anyway)

As to DII, it might just about be a workable system by the time its replacement arrives, but it will have consumed, and wasted, far too many hours that could have been spent on something productive.

But don't worry, I am sure that there are a lot worse things than DII that the UK armed forces are having to put up with.

Y_G

[Milarity]

The way it was briefed to us:
- legacy equipment now belongs to Atlas to do as they see fit.
- legacy equipment will be replaced by DII, but not one-for-one, we only have funding for 75% of what we already have!
- We pay an annual rent for the new gear of £200-£400 per pc depending on usefulness; printers and IGS access are extra on top of that.
- Scanners are incompatable with DII.
- Atlas can give us anything we want - at a cost
- There are no funds left, so the answer is no.
- Its a ten year contract, so my £47,000 pc will cost another £4000 in rent plus an unknown amount for printing and IGS.
- We don't get the programmes we already own, we only get what is in the DII portfolio if we pay again, and there is no cash to pay, and we won't get them for 12 - 18 months anyway.
Did I miss anything?

[Uncle Ginsters]

We don't get the programmes we already own

Not so sure about this Milarity? You are right - we only get what applications are in the DII(F) portfolio. If an application isn't in the portfolio, it's because nobody (your IMs) told Atlas what was needed, or funding to it was denied.
In addition to that, users will only get what their respective IMs have told Atlas that they should have in their account setup. So all users don't get all applications.

I'm almost :bored: 100% sure that BOCS has been migrated, as has PFPS (for those that use it).

Unless anyone knows any different?

Caveat: the above is based on nothing more than what i've been told will happen...and most of that appears to be total bolleaux so far :ugh:

[Milarity]

You may well be right.
There seems to be 2 common themes coming to the fore:
1. We cannot provide you with any information at this time.
2. We needed to know that information 6 months ago and you should have realised that we needed it and provided it.

[Pontius Navigator]

Uncle, I am an IM. I was told I would get JPA, HRMS, MFMIS and of course Microsoft. I was not asked what I wanted. I didn't want JPA and of course we don't get MFMIS and EAMS is not compatible. Besides EAMS needs a 2Gb pipe and I have 256k. I did ask for a floppy drive and got one of those.

At least it boots faster than Dii/c.

Latest news, you can keep Dii/c as well but is will cost £500 per month.

One bit of kit was only bought and fitted for Dii/c a year ago. We are swapping out old CRT VDU for LCDs on our other kit and will give Atlas the old crap.

Why do I need a floppy drive? Well we had some pre-Dii/c kit but it was never cleared for Dii. This means I can do virtually what I like with it including running some bespoke software that is also incompatible with Dii/f. However I need to swap docs between the 2.

[C130 Techie]

Was told last week by one of the Atlas people that if the application you need is not in the Atlas portfolio then it will take around 9 months to get it. Until then you get to keep a legacy machine to run your application.

In addition to get a new user account or change existing details will take 25 working days from application.

[Uncle Ginsters]

Pontious, as you say, the recurring theme here to me seems to be the additional cost of any additions to the system - one of the reasons for my starting of this thread is to hear from those already migrated just how true this is? And whose budget does it come from when things are missed? It's not just the DII/C that's changing, but also all Intranet functions upon which, dare i say it, most of our productivity relies. Have you seen the file protocol as dictated from high up in A6? How did we ever end up with that mess???

Also, as the Sqn IM, i am acutely aware of what's being 'sold' to us. I was hoping that some/anything posted might save us dropping a proverbial and costing the Sqn at some point down the line...here's hoping!

One other thing that strikes me is the level of responsibility being devolved to Sqn-level IM/BUPOCs. I'm lucky(?); I have some academic background in IT and computing.:8 Several others, it seems, have nothing more than signed a set of TORs and now on their head rest the sqn's succesful migration...correct me if i'm wrong, but that's how it appears at the moment:*

Thanks for your posts - keep 'em coming.:ok:

[Baskitt Kase]

BOCS has been listed in the DIIF portfolio for about 18-24 months. STARS did not meet the requirements necessary for inclusion on DII. This is one of the reasons that BOCS was rushed out ahead of really being ready - it had to be ahead of the original DIIF rollout date for the Secret Oxon Airbase or there would have been nothing and, even with all its faults, BOCS is better than nothing.

[Pontius Navigator]

And whose budget does it come from when things are missed?

Indeed. I have just been appointed as an AD but I have 2 UIN so it could be interesting if I make an authorised demand but the budgetteer say wrong UIN. Now I am minded too . . . :}

Agree what you say about experience. I did my course at Newton in 1991!

[CounterSunk]

BOCS has been listed in the DIIF portfolio for about 18-24 months.


Yes, but as the application is still being developed it won't get a DII green light until it is steady state, hence it's unlikely to be 'adopted' by DII.

I'm not sure how BOCS will be presented post-migration, or supported, nor does anyone else it seems (including the BOCS wizard in the ITOC).

[Spurlash2]

BK

You say that: STARS did not meet the requirements necessary for inclusion on DII.

I thought that it was an Access database. A universal sort of application.

Do you know why DII doesn't like it? Just interested.

S2

PS. BOCS is not better than nothing

[Cpt_Pugwash]

Spurlash2,
DII(F) doesn't do Access, at least only the runtime version if you're lucky and your case has been successful. No reason AFAIK, just policy.

And another thing, ... the video codecs are out of date and won't even play the video links on the MoD Intranet or the external MOD internet site. Doh!

[Wader2]

Cpt Pugwash, that one is easy. Call the SPOC and call it in as a fault. When I went live it would not open Adobe PDF. Nor would it run Java Script - at least not the version that HRMS demanded.

I called them both in and they sorted the problems out straight away - like a month for PDF although there was a messy workaround.

There is also a glitch in Google. Several links from Google will come up with the dreaded BT blocker BUT is you copy the url rather than use the google link it will work.

[Uncle Ginsters]

DII(F) doesn't do Access, at least only the runtime version if you're lucky and your case has been successful.

Is this true? We've been lead to believe here that the runtime version of Access is part of the basic software list that all users will get? The runtime version only cuts out files without a 'front-end' or page of buttons to work with the database...so if your files have been well written, there should be no snags (it says here!)

[C130 Techie]

Uncle G.

I went to the Database 'surgery' held fairly close to your location on Monday. What you have been led to believe is true. The only database I tested that did not work on a DII(F) machine was one without a front end. The others worked fine.

[TMJ]

Spurlash2,
DII(F) doesn't do Access, at least only the runtime version if you're lucky and your case has been successful. No reason AFAIK, just policy.


Access is deprecated because there are too many cases where people are relying on a database written by someone who was posted or retired a few years ago without leaving any documentation or passing on the arcane kludges that were put into it to make it work. This isn't too much of a problem for a relatively simple database, even something as important as the gen for running a flt, allocating duties etc - people can revert to pen, paper and complaining. However, where it's running important, operationally or financially critical stuff and will be broken by amove to a new computer it can cause all sorts of pain.

[OKOC]

Why does a company the size of the RAF need so many different computer systems? Toyota plc UK is much bigger with far more employees. JPA was the final nail for my PVR--it is no wonder everyone is pissed off and thinking of leaving. PS It's a real shame cos the RAF in general is good place to be/was ruined by wanabe IT promotion seekers at everyone elses cost.

Just ask-" what is the benefit of this new system?" Sorry, my mistake, consultation at the worker level seems to be old fashioned-the managers know best.

[dallas]

...consultation at the worker level seems to be old fashioned-the managers know best.
Certainly in my top 3 failings of the RAF - perhaps even the No1. There are so many people on the shop floor with very useful ideas, but the Service never taps into this resource - the result is poorly thought out 'improvements', conceived by bosses who don't actually perform the task they oversee, but for whom any change is desperately sought so as to make their mark in a limited timeframe. I'm convinced ill-conceived change has cost us millions over the years and would cite this as a major contributor to the stretch placed on the defence budget. :*

[CounterSunk]

Sorry to bring this up again, but our esteemed CIS guru's are now rejecting all requests for new networked capability (new post stood up, need a 'puter for him) as the network layout is now 'mapped' for DII.

What's that all about?

[Pontius Navigator]

Countersunk,

Also time.

Atlas is contracted to 'roll out' Dii/f in 'Increments'. Increment 'n' will have been mapped and either already installed or sub-contracted for installation. Increment n+1 is already mapped and 'extra' capability planned against 'previous' requirements. Anyway it is not a new 'puter that you want, you need a UAD.

You have a new requirement so that will not have been foreseen in increment n+1. I guess it may be added idc to increment n+n OR you pay mega bucks for a special installation.

Given a budget or cost of £7.3bn you can see it will not be cheap. We were given a costing of £18k to move a cabinet 15 feet.

To get you new computer you must convince your AD and LCC of your need. I think your AD will be your CIS Eng guru and your LCC is the man with the cash. Even the new post, without a UAD will cost for his account.


AD = authorised demander
LCC = Local change coordinator
Increment = tranche etc
UAD = User Access Device = 'puter etc

PS

You can now demand a Netbook for a highly mobile post.
You can demand a 27 inch monitor.
You can demand a tracker ball.
You can demand a headset and microphone for voice access.

[Pontius Navigator]

Yesterday, switched on, logged in, checked email - zip - nada.

Tried internet - nada.

Rebooted - unable to log in.

Checked colleague - nada.

Rang SPOC.

Is it Outlook?

No, no connectivity.

Is it the intranet or IGS?

No, nothing, no connectivity, its as if there are no wires to the outside world.

Can you see the wires? Are they plugged into the machine?

I suppose the question is not entirely stupid but it should have been obvious that I had checked the obvious. We had already established it had worked the day before.

Anyway, I was right, it was the wires somewhere "Thanks BT for a quiet day in the office."

[GasFitter]

DII(F) = £Ms of investment = reduction in storage capability = £Ms of future requirements for any sensible upgrade. "Well Done" that man who said that this was a really good idea.

[Pontius Navigator]

Gasfitter,

Wrong

£Bs

[GasFitter]

Pontius Navigator

Touche

[Data-Lynx]

Oh Uncle. It get-ith worse.
Dear Mr DII. Can I have the same thingy on my computer in the western spiral arm of outer London that I could use in KAB to watch all those lovely dancing dots on the screen please.
The man from Thames Valley Park said: Yes and ICC was downloaded; it even switched on OK.
Dear Mr DII. Thank you and can I connect to something useful like a database.
The man from Thames Valley Park said: your request does not compute. There is nothing in the catalogue about a database.
Bother. Is there anyone I can string up by the NEC?

[Pontius Navigator]

Data-Lynx, you are lucky. Our unit, amongst several others, is not in the database so we cannot even get passwords and that 6 months after we went live.

You need to find a J6 wallah in your CoC and use some bare electrical wires ensuring they are not connected to an RCD.

[CounterSunk]

Well, so much for Atlas "Joining Forces" here in the Cotswolds. The first lucky few users now have DII and can't even email across base. The next few months should be very interesting indeed.

[Pontius Navigator]

Countersunk, bet I know the reason why :)

Above my pay grade to fix it though LOL

[CounterSunk]

PN, couldn't you at least give our CIS Eng chappies a few pointers? ;)

[SammySu]

Particularly liked the latest DARS Head Up about the significant changes to ATC services from next March:


An interactive CD .......available for training.....sqns should receive copies early in the New Year.....Note, the CD will not run on DII(C) or DII(F) and alternative systems need to be utilised at units with DII


Progress then.

[Mobile Muppet]

Hats off to DII,

My working day is now 35 mins shorter, as thats the amount of time it takes just to boot the bloody thing up !

Feet up and cup of tea first thing then.

MM

[Pontius Navigator]

Sammy, indeed, no sound cards, no audio output. I tried to run a training video - no dice, it froze.

It does however boot faster than Dii/c but still there is monumental waste. We had Dii/c in for less than 2 years. The Dii/c was wired using fibres and these were not used for f, it had a whole new set of wires.

At one point we had pairs of contractors turning up at the same time. One to take the system down to replace boxes and the second to test the system was up and running. They had not coordinated at all!

[CounterSunk]

Talk about stepping backward. We have lots of top quality, high volume printer/scanners/copiers networked across the existing LAN. Ideal, users have a mailbox with a pin number. They send work to the machine, key in their pin (when they want to collect the work, great for privacy marked stuff), hey presto. Ideal for busy, open plan areas (ie Ops), great bits of kit.

What is the DIIF equivalent? Nothing. Back to the odd A4 mono printer here and there.

Lots of 19 inch (and bigger) TFTs around the place. Good for planners working BOCS. Guess what, DIIF will swap them for a 17 inch.

Had a quick browse through the catalogue. How on earth can they jusify the prices they quote? Even if that is including 3 years on site support, compared with high street prices they are really taking the michael.

Well done to whoever signed up for this..................... :ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Countersunk - swap is the operative word. They are contracted to remove all the legacy stuff. No one seemed very interested when I asked about the HDDs or what happened to the legacy stuff. As far as I know they will be free to dispose of it as surplus with the money coming back to MOD, after expenses of course.

You can see why units will not provide new kit that is not from Atlas as Atlas will take it off your hands for free.

Any idea of keeping the old 19 inch monitors - forget it. Atlas will be contracted to remove X old monitors. If you retain some then you pay.

Swap the old 19 inch for the 17? Forget that too. Your old monitor will have a VGA socket the new ones have some special gucci connector.

Who signed off? Well the Scottish Gp Capt would seem to have had a hand in it or so I learnt here in pprune.

[Wader2]

The cost for every serviceman and MOD civilian to have a Dii/f account is about £10.5 million per month £126 million per year.

[cornish-stormrider]

Gent's it sounds like a monumental turd has been polished to a high sheen and sold to the muppets in the ivory towers. Unfortunately now you all have to get it to work while the prime contractor creams in a huge amount in money. Be advised all his chimps will be the lowest paid in IT having just retrained at their own cost on the basis of an advert they saw on sky.

My advice to you is buy a whole load of gen books and pens, don't use the UAD at all and when the midden hits the windmill, blame it. keep a paper chart for everything important and make sure you avoid getting stitched with any IT related secondary dutys or extra tasks allocated for you to take the blame.

If it all goes wrong say there was an EM surge or summat and the damn thing is fried.

[Epimetheus]

I recall a clever flt lt at HW proving that it was cheaper to keep our CIS Eng techs and continue to administer our own LANs on RAF units, than it was to buy into DII. But don't fight the pink ......... :ugh:

[dallas]

Alongside an ill-advised invasion/attack on Iran, the introduction of DII(F) was reasonably high on my Phew List - events that I truly hope occur after my last day in uniform. That I should be fearful of the new system, and not curious as to how it's going to help me do my job, is indicative of many military IT systems that tend to follow the pattern of:

1. Ill-conceived idea from senior officer or politician.
2. Cheapest bidder wins vague contract. Bidder's track record ignored.
3. Project team consult person in item 1, again applying the consistently flawed rule that says rank equates to subject matter knowledge.
4. Midway through contract cheapest bidder introduces unanticipated extra costs, essentially making them more expensive than competent bidder who was rejected.
5. Contract for old, working, system terminated asap, by faceless adminner, because new system coming. Postponement not negotiable.
6. Cheapest bidder announces further technical difficulties and delay to switch-on day. More money needed for project - of course they get it - but only to get system up and running, not improvements (the former is political - the latter doesn't matter).
7. Users get trained on demo system and realise:
It doesn't do what they want it to do.
The cheapest bidder wasn't asked to make it do what users want it to.
The training they're receiving will be irrelevant in 12 months because:
(i) The system won't look anything like the demo.
(ii) The system is running 2 years late.
(iii) 80% of the people in the room will be posted by switch-on dayWhereupon users experience a sense of relief at being posted and start agreeing with everything to curtail the training course as much as possible.

8. Switch-on of new, and plug pulled on old, system now to happen within a few hrs of each other. Motivational e-mail circulates from a senior officer who won't have to do the job with the new system.
9. Staff concerns repelled with accusations of negativity from management.
10. Plug pulled on old system. Pens & paper cover office.
11. Majority of project team start work for contractor.
12. Expensive, but vague, glossy brochure released to inform all of benefits of new system (widely unread), but no sign of a user guide.
13. New system turned on, crashes causing chaos, but RAF News hails 22nd century technology a popular success. Hoorah!
14. The primary task suffers - the shop floor gets bollocked.
15. New CEO at cheapest bidder HQ - see 1.

[Pontius Navigator]

Dallas, you're wrong.









oh how I would like to say that but I can't:{

7. Users get trained on demo system and realise:
It doesn't do what they want it to do.

Actually we had the manadatory training just before we all went live about 8 months ago. The training was identical with the procedures for Dii/c and told us nothing new. Firthermore it told us nothing relevant. And the majority of the users are still waiting to get on to the system.

12. Expensive, but vague, glossy brochure released to inform all of benefits of new system (widely unread), but no sign of a user guide.

There is a user guide. It's online. :}

13. New system turned on, crashes causing chaos, but RAF News hails 22nd century technology a popular success.

Sorry there is a techinical fault. Technicians are looking at the problem.

[Data-Lynx]

While struggling to find out if this Defence Information Infrastructure (DII)/Future was due to connect to something useful, like any of the Air Mission Planning Aids, this FT.com article (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1d2f790c-a621-11dd-9d26-000077b07658.html) was waved at me today.
The Ministry of Defence is taking on average nearly four years to procure each large project under the Private Finance Initiative (PFI), potentially incurring additional expense for the taxpayer, according to the government's spending watchdog. The National Audit Office examined eight PFI case studies and found they took an average of 37 months to procure, compared with the PFI average across government of 34 months. Larger PFI projects took the MoD an average of 45 months to procure.
If the first DII contract was placed in May/Jun 2005, it looks like this monolith will pass the NAO average next March and my Home Base is expecting it to arrive in May 09. Oh well!

[spheroid]

Has anyone had any experience of writing an SJAR yet? I've got 9 maintainers who need an SJAR writing on them and to be honest I haven't got a clue where to start......wish we could have some sort of training on this stuff.... sigh

[proplover]

As part of one of the companies involved with installing the basic cabing infrastructure I can only agree with so many of the comments especially Post 30 which did bring a smile to my face as it appears to be so true (Points 2, 4 & 6). Ive been involved with Dii for many years especially DiiC which whilst it may not of been perfect but in comparrison to F ran like a well oiled machine.
Some of the main differences Ive noticed;
1) From Design survey to actual start on site - DiiF between 12 and 18months - DiiC between 8 and 12 weeks
2) Our pre start meetings - DiiF, 18 people in attendance for a job of 38 TAPs and fibre links to 9 buildings - DiiC, 6 people (Bare in mind that a number of these 'representatives' are on between £250-£400 a day so quite an expensive meeting - one meeting I went to the job was worth in total to us a quarter of the cost of all the people who turned up to look at it!!!).
3) The DiiF idea of using one company to do the design and then asking a totally seperate company to do the installation (some 18 months later!) has proved to me to be a foolhardy one and one that untill only very recently has one of the main companies attempted to correct as a trial on one site. The delays and additional costs attached to this novel way of working has been very expensive to say the least. Note that the terminals, screens, printers etc are delivered and installed by a third group. DiiC one company co-ordinated all three aspects of the deliverables.
4) In the early days of F I attended pre-site starts where the Design Company was trying to convince us that it made sense (Value for Money!) to install a new pit and duct system to run in parrallel with one that we installed in DiiC 2 years earlier as 'it wasnt good enough for F'. As the money has run out these bizzare comments have almost disappeared.

I wont bore you people out there with other novel ideas that have sprung up with F but if you think your getting less for you ££££'s take it from me - you are. Dont think that the installers are raking it in either, so many have dropped out as they cannot make any money - I would look at the main managing company. Based on the performance of F should they have been awarded the contract over the managing company of C hmmm???

[Data-Lynx]

proplover.

I can only agree wholeheartedly. At least there are some far-seeing people who are asking Fj what they propose to do while we wait for Atlas to deliver.

Meanwhile, if Atlas was supposed to be: a Titan compelled to support the heavens on his shoulders,
how come it feels like we are the titan and it is their system, management, costs and decisions that seem to be bearing down heavily?

[Pontius Navigator]

Bill for a 12mm hole in an internal wall 150mm thick - £120. Two men, two days, £960. Both plus VAT.

An account at £35 per account plus VAT per month. To get a user an account requires an entry in a spreadsheet. One line per user. There is no way to copy data down from one box to a whole column - only one box at a time. No surprise that the optional entries are omitted. If you make a mistake the entry is rejected and you have to start again.

There are plenty of instuction docs and even a mandatory course before you can have an account. The mandatory course was identical to the mandatory course before Dii/c and bore no relation to what was actually needed.

Same of the instruction docs. What you want to do is frequently not there and you have to ring the help desk.

Incident logs numbers are running at about 4000 per day. When you ring the help desk they meander through a call centre checklist asking the answers to totally irrelevant questions - what is your BU number when the question has nthing to do with your computer. What is you PUID? ditto. Is your address xxx at yyy, zzz? When are you available?

If you say I am available 9-5 are they expecting seriously that you will be sitting by the phone for the next 8 hours?

It eats time.

[cornish-stormrider]

Gents, I said it before and I shall say it again, IT costs time and money. It has no effective increase in output at the front end. It is the fuel is Satan's Beauracracy (sp) and all in MOD and the mil machine have to play.

Pour a coffee in base station, ring up and say it was knackered at the start of shift and then do it by paper. You get bonus points if the Boss's powerpoint presentation gets destroyed too:E:E

[Brown Job]

Spheroid,

1. Ensure that the reportees have completed their Posting Preferences and Personal Objectives (which needs to be approved by their Line Manager).

2. Then make sure that your UEO has completed their Post objectives.

3. Then get your Appraisal Administrator to initiate the SJAR by giving him/her the pids of the 1RO and 2RO.

4. The SJAR will then arrive in your JPA workflow for you to complete (if you are 1RO).

easy eh?:cool:

[themightyimp]

What really gets me is that we pay for a service and then use military manpower to bail it out (recent survey for DII(F) at HW used some poor guys from TCW to do the work). When will we stop bailing out these contractors and make them do what they were :mad: paid to do? Stop citing :mad: like "we have to maintain operational output" and show what :mad: :mad: this really is.

That made me feel better :ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Apart from the general bind, because it makes me feel better, I would be grateful for all/any help and guidance please.

Friday, last week, I was "upgraded" to DII(F)from Navynet. Here's a funny thing; I can get into Arrse (hardly ever go there), can't get into RumRation (same outfit who runs Arrse) at all (get error message "Error Code: 502 Proxy Error") but, thankfully, can get into PPRuNe. Since my first log in, though, when I log in and get the "greetings" screen, it logs me immediately back out and, consequently, I can't Post. I gashed the PPRuNe cookie and it made no difference.

I then had the bright (well I thought it was) idea of registering a new account for use on the Firm's computer. I received the "verification code in PPRuNe Forums" message and logged in through it. It told me that I'm already registered as this Ident, even though the e-mail address I used for the new registration didn't exist before last Friday! Although I am now in via that route, what do I need to do in future to stop the auto log off happening?

Yours, GBZ

[Wader2]

GBZ, can't help as it works OK here.

Just a thought though, try pressing F5 next time you are on pprune, log out, log in. There was a different problem a while back when the BB format was changed and we had to clear the cache.

If you try the F5 route that may renew the cache.

As for the RumRat issue, try asking on ARRSE or RumRat, if they can get into RumRat at work.

[Data-Lynx]

cornish-stormrider had a point about cost. In the Crown copyright MoD Annual Report and Accounts Volume I 2007-08 (For the year ended 31 March 2008) (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/31D096E9-3F41-4633-BEA2-AE62CF97C3AE/0/annrptvol1_200708.pdf), try page 102, para 169 (if you are very brave and do not have to do this for a living) for some spinning at an RPM that could launch a old Wasp/Scout.

DII is furthermore a critical enabler of wider benefits, and cost reductions, in the delivery of many Defence Change Programmes and a key enabler of Network Enabled Capability. By the end of financial year 2007-08, just over 26,000 User Access Devices (UADs) and over 76,000 user accounts had been delivered at approximately 420 sites. Significant milestones during the year included:
● DII Future rollout to Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) Headquarters at Abbey Wood, began in July 2007. This was the biggest and most complex single implementation within the programme to date, covering more than 8,000 terminals in 19 buildings across two sites;
● The DII(F) Deployed Increment 2b contract was signed in September 2007 for the development and deployment of UADs supporting Deployed (and Fixed) MoD operations and commitments. Increment 2b will provide 3,300 UADs to support the Front Line. The approved programme cost of Increment 2b is £384M benefits (instead of DII(FDR)); and
● At 31 March 2008, the overall programme had achieved or enabled benefits of £920M; this includes financial year 2007-08 efficiencies of £125.8M.

It is assumed that 76K accounts includes the entire TA and that 'most complex' means v difficult at ABW. I think I preferred the picture alongside of the Typhoon dropping a bomb which appears to be aimed at DII.

The following heath warning about 'misleading context' has to be added: The text in this document (excluding the Royal Arms and other departmental or agency logos) may be reproduced free of charge in any format or medium providing it is reproduced accurately and not used in a misleading context. The material must be acknowledged as Crown copyright and the title of the document specified.

[Pontius Navigator]

Just an idle thought.

What could you buy instead of Dii(f)?

Two aircraft carriers?

44 Cruise ships?

What else?

Network Enabled Capability - no network ever killed anybody unless they were strangled in red tape.

No sonofabitch every won a war pounding at his laptop. He won the war by killing the other sonofabitch that had his head in his computer (with apologies to George S P)

We managed to win a war in the Far East with about 100,000 personnel (I think it was that many) with very few casualties on either side and with b*gger all comms - the occasional telephone call over 300 miles and signals as the usual media. UK newspapers were 5 days late and there was no TV. If we had radio we didn't get the world service, but we didn't have radios anyway.

One of our allies has been down the technology route but you can't win wars without feet on the ground. I say feet as some enemy do not have boots. Let's pull the plug and save the money.

[Self Loading Freight]

I have watched something very similar going on at two other large, quasi-governmental three-letter-named national organisations (one begins with N, one with B). The process is exactly as described - plus, as I expect happens with the RAF, the exasperated users who actually have to do the work end up buying at their own expense and maintaining through informal support networks unofficial systems that actually work. Usually in the face of people doing their best to outlaw such things: "data security" is a good excuse to actively prosecute anyone who tries to find a work-around.

In one case with which I am particularly familiar, the combination of getting an incompetent outside agency to completely replace existing systems, sacking all those with actual expertise in running the organisation's IT, and passing all support over to incompetent helplines and on-site consultants who can't see that they're not working with a bog standard enterprise with bog standard needs, has led to regular and spectacular failures and near-open warfare in the trenches.

If everyone across the country who had to spend their lives picking up the pieces from this sort of malarky actually got together and realised how widespread this is, something might actually happen...

R

[CounterSunk]

Its a lark here in rural Oxfordshire. There seem to be mobs of contractors working to get buildings electrically compliant (why are they non-compliant?) to allow the DII gang in to install the network. Alongside this, another bunch of navvies are digging up the place replacing the Stn power grid. Not much coordination it seems, as buildings are dis-connected then re-connected, both electrically and on the IT network.

The migration seems to have slowed with only a handful of users actually getting the new system. Progress? Not seen any yet. :bored:

[Pontius Navigator]

CS, if in your office you have a computer, with a monitor, scanner and speakers - 4 sockets - and you are to get Dii/f then they will instal extra sockets for the UAD and VDU.

The following week, figuratively speaking, they will remove the computer, with monitor, scanner and speakers. You now have 4 spare sockets.

Yup, true.

But, in the process of adding the two new sockets they may have determined that the power supply needs to be upgraded because they are increasing the available sockets by 50%.

Yup, true too.

[CounterSunk]

Pontius. I'm not convincinced that the Stn is properly coordinating much of what is happening, or rather having input into the programme. It seems that OC CIS Eng is copping for much of the incoming, quite unfairly it seems. A huge undertaking, yet Stn is represented by a JO?

Recently a migration element was delared 'live' amid much backslapping all round. However, the cluster of buildings with the new kit is empty, having recently been vacated by TCW. I wonder if Harry Staish is aware that he is funding computers (billed monthly I understand) without getting any beneficial use?

The Ops building will be a nightmare to work in once migration begins. Planning to take leave, if only they could tell us when it may happen. It slips further and further to the right and the rumour (I stress rumour, to protect the guilty :oh: ) doing the rounds is that massive financial penalties are being presented to the Stn for defaulting on the ATLAS installation contract. You couldn't *:mad:* make it up.

[Pontius Navigator]

CS, PM please

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

if in your office you have a computer, with a monitor, scanner and speakers

Speakers? Speakers? Aunty Betty provides speakers? I demand a re-count; this is blatant discrimination against the Navy. This Silent Sevice thing can be taken too far, you know.

Incidentally, I can now get on here via the Firm's set up.

[spheroid]

Speakers and a scanner..... Behave. The MOD doesn't issue speakers and scanners to the Armed Forces.... (do they?)......

....... You'll be telling me that DII comes with a colour printer as well.... ?

[Pontius Navigator]

Well actually yes to both.

We were 'given' (no signing) 3 x Dell, plus speakers, plus scanners, plus printers plus bells and whistles for Dii/c but eventually Dii/c rolled up with 3 more but no scanners or sound cards.

When Dii/f rolled up, no scanner but you you should see the colour printer. Size of a beer cooler. Best bit is the consumables cost. Makes the monthly accounts bill look lik epocket money. On the net you can buy cartridges at about £150 or so each but through the catalogue you would see no change of £1000 for a set of 4.

I haven't done that much printing yet but I will be putting in a little test purchase to make sure I don't run out of toner :}

[spheroid]

Well at least DII is good for a couple of things if it comes with Colour printers and scanners and speakers (not sure why we need speakers but hey)

[Pontius Navigator]

Sorry, you miss read that. Scanners and speakers are not part of the Dii/F package but you might be able to get them from the catalogue.

Given the increasing use of CBT and other material that needs sound and colour printing then you could argue that you need it. You have Powerpoint but no means of getting imagery into it.

Is it right that you have to use your home computer and then email it to work?

As for colour printing, it is not one each. Plebs get the b&w laser and have to use the colour on a network basis. If you are lucky it is in the same building. For RAF CCIS we got one for the whole station. Naturally I had it installed near my desk. Very handy for colour posters :)

[bit-twiddler]

One of the other things to mention about the colour printers is that they are set to 2 pages per sheet, double sided as default - apparently as a cost saving measure.

To change it you need to alter the settings under the "printers and fax machines" option otherwise it resets between prints. ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

bit-twidler,

There was no paper economy with mine. It would burst in to life and throw out an inch of so of paper at a time, except it would only print a proper sheet per minute.

Every time they tried to configure it as a proper network printer it would issue more scrap paper. Finally they admitted the printer was not capable of being installed on the network and they had to get the manufacturer to write new drivers.

Don't know if it is fixed yet.

[c-bert]

One of the other things to mention about the colour printers is that they are set to 2 pages per sheet, double sided as default - apparently as a cost saving measure.



Haha, terribly sad to admit but I actually know the chap that implemented that, and yes, he is a chisler.

[Pontius Navigator]

Haha, terribly sad to admit but I actually know the chap that implemented that, and yes, he is a chisler.

Of course, under the DDA95, if I get anything printed in A5 rather than A4 that is too small to read then it is with file 13 or return to sender. No way am I straining my eyes. I demand big print.

The Annual report booklet came with a one or two page layout in minute grey scale script. They were unable to provide a readable copy so I filed it :}

[cornish-stormrider]

Oh how I can see this one going on.........
My crystal ball ( ok it's a whisky glass) is a) empty and b) tells me that you are all royally screwed.

DO you remember how the RAF used to operate before this insidious coup by bad computing??

Guess what is coming over the hill.....

hey - blame it all on the computer system, they will never be able to prove you didn't do it (if you should have done it) and vise versa.

[Wader2]

Oh how I can see this one going on.........

hey - blame it all on the computer system, they will never be able to prove you didn't do it (if you should have done it) and vise versa.

What email? I didn't get your email.

[CounterSunk]

The madness continues. The new date for completion is now March next year, with more slippage expected. Gangs of contractors roam the camp turning off power and 'messing' with the network without any apparent direction or planning. Empty buildings get IT fitted, sections expecting at least a 'like for like' swap out are told not to hold their breath. Personnel posted in since the 'site freeze' are told they won't get accounts until the budget people order them in.

BOCS won't go DII, so we will have to cram the new machines in alongside the old. And to cap it all the CIS support section seems to have vanished.

And this is progress?

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

I've progressed. I've left.

Dare I say I saw this coming?

[spheroid]

What is BOCS ?

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

Boeing Operational Control Suite. It's the air transport fleet tasking system. Introduced politically early, but not as disastrously as JPA, promised lots but it's been more of a live test than a saleable product. It creaked under Brize's existing network, but I guess that won't be a problem now...

[proplover]

Funny you should of mentioned printers Pontius, one of the more recent "whoops we didnt see that comming" moments. Many army and RAF establishments have discovered just how much their stationary budgets are being clobberd by the "agreed pricing" of tonner replacemnts for the F printers. One Sqd Ldr I met was looking at a potential 3 to 4 fold increase in his costs and Ive heard similar stories eleswhere, may not sound much on one base but believe me when you multiply the number of printers and toner cartriges accross all MOD sites in UK, Germany and else where.......well with that money MOD could pay more compensation to wounded servicmen, or bought more\better equipment etc etc. Remember its an on going cost every year!

God if I hear another Atlas bloke say "lessons have been learnt" ..... The lessons were learnt in DiiA (Pilot scheme) and C its just that EDS and Atlas thought they knew better and have taken best part of two and half years to re-invent the Dii wheel to get us roughly back where we were at the end of C.

[Pontius Navigator]

Proplove, yes, I told you so. I have been watching the printer consumables issue for many years. Our ALFENS ink-jet used to eat £1000 of cartridges per year - yup, in B&W.

Before Dii/f we had 8 or 9 inkjets on the unit and only 2 pairs the same. stock holding was IRO £500. We now added a B&W laser and a colour laser and Atlas removed our one economical B&W laser, Stock holding is now £1700.

[cornish-stormrider]

go to PC world and by a cheap one, lie on JPA about the expenses and get a good deal on toner etc from cartridge world. Submit a GEMS and get promoted.
If you just get a generic usb printer and find a helpful fairy, leckie or computer nerd on sqn (there is always one) and get them to patch it in if the atlas have hidden the usb ports.......

Then send me 15 thousand pounds as a consultancy fee....

jobsa good un

[proplover]

Ahhhhh if only! Think you'll find the adding of "non approved" printers may be more difficult than before.

You wouldnt belive how many inner pit lids and padlocks have had to be replaced due to a) existiting metal rings being cut through due to key missing for the padlock, b) lock being hot cut through so we could get into the pit and c) missing inner lids. These are not cheap relacements either especially as the new Approved Class 2 lock list came out! Hey guess what, someone has approved lock types with the hasp now being 14-15mm thick - many of the older pits only have 8-10mm holes!!! Also the body of the lock is of such a size now that often you cant physically position them between the two lids on older pits!! The cost of these locks is something else as well, by the time MOD get the bill I wouldnt be surprised at the figure being £160 a go.

Has anyone had an instance or heard of one where a person of dubious intent (outside of IT people :E) has tried to get into a pit to do no good?

[Pontius Navigator]

Has anyone had an instance or heard of one where a person of dubious intent (outside of IT people :E) has tried to get into a pit to do no good?

No, but then we have the keys.

The real p1sser is that they take way your super 19 inch TFT VGA socket monitor and replace it with a 17 inch monitor with a different plug.

[lancs]

We keep hearing mention of this 'different' connector for the monitor... could someone describe it please? It must be carrying the same signal, such that a pin swapping device could be pretty easily knocked-up to sort it back to VGA (XGA if you want to be fussy)?

[dallas]

We keep hearing mention of this 'different' connector for the monitor... could someone describe it please? It must be carrying the same signal, such that a pin swapping device could be pretty easily knocked-up to sort it back to VGA (XGA if you want to be fussy)?
Unless there's a compelling reason to have unique monitor connections, that nobody else in the world has apparently needed until now, the person who agreed to - or overlooked - that aspect of the contract should be hauled over the coals. Non-standard parts are the sort of thing an O Level business studies student could spot from 100 miles away as being a trap for a lucrative support contract monopoly, where 'specialist spares' just happen to cost 10x the market rate and need an approved technician to fit them...who happens to be from the original company. It's bordering on organised crime.

Personally, I would write into the contract of the contracts officer that they will be held financially responsible for any contract traps they lead the MoD into, where it would have been reasonable to expect them to have avoided them. That would concentrate the mind.

[Pontius Navigator]

I haven't looked recently but the male, VDU, connector has blades not pins. It might be a new industry standard, but when has Government IT been at the leading edge of technology?

[lancs]

If it has blades and pins, then this would be the answer... if not, who knows!
DVI to VGA Gender Changers > Maplin (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97442)

[Pontius Navigator]

Lancs

Could be but I would need to check the plug/socket.

So DVI is new standard? After we have had VGA for, ooh, 20 years or more. Clearly time to force peopel to change their long life monitors.

[lancs]

Just realised I inadvertently brought up gender benders... sorry!

[CounterSunk]

So DVI is new standard? After we have had VGA for, ooh, 20 years or more. Clearly time to force peopel to change their long life monitors.

Oooh, you old cynic , you! :E

I'll try to get a peep at the 'new' connector layout through the week and report back.

[bit-twiddler]

The graphics cards in the Optiplexes are Dell specials designed for CAD work IIRC - Quadro FXs - they have dual outputs from a single socket.

This cable then has two outputs from it (for the dual display) and then both these are DVI style connectors.

edit: Almost forgot, here's a top tip for the DII computers. Don't have the left hand shift key pressed down on switch on ;)

[The Masked Geek]

DVI is the new standard.

[Pontius Navigator]

edit: Almost forgot, here's a top tip for the DII computers. Don't have the left hand shift key pressed down on switch on ;)

I guess what the Major really meant to say was:

"press the left hand shift key as you switch on."

If you ever switch off that is :}

[HaveQuick2]

"DVI is the new standard."

Not quite true. DVI may be a newer standard than VGA, but the new standard is actually DisplayPort.

I suppose pretty typical of the MoD though, to be upgrading to an already superceded standard.

[Pontius Navigator]

"DVI is the new standard."

Not quite true. DVI may be a newer standard than VGA, but the new standard is actually DisplayPort.

I suppose pretty typical of the MoD though, to be upgrading to an already superceded standard.

Ah, that explains it. The very idea that the MOD would be at the bleedin
edge.

The system is truely wonderful. It throws up obscure warning messages telling you to do something but omits to tell you how. Installing a piece of new software was a revelation, not just to me but to the help desk too.

[8-15fromOdium]

This is making me weep, DVI is not a new standard. It has been about for nearly 10 years now. I know there is a lot wrong with DII but having a monck on about the video connectors is a moan to far.

[Pontius Navigator]

Odium, no it isn't. Atlas are removing perfectly good 19 inch and larger VGA VDU and replacing them with 17 inch DVI VDU. Then, if you want a 19 inch you have to make a business case to buy a new 19 inch display.

You can bet your bottom dollar that there will be no refund for the 17 inch DVI that they remove.

As for DVI being around for 10 years, is it not odd that every computer provided in the last 8 years has been VGA? That commercial computers have VGA and rarely DVI?

I know one is digital and the other is analogue but what is the technical advantage of change as there appears to be no economical advantage?

[proplover]

Your being "standardised" - then at a later date a certain company can then make more money by up-grading you to where you started off from!
I beleive that the 'Discovery' survey was supposed to identify larger screen users, the question was then asked if it was a requirement for you to have them, if nothing was forthcomming or it was deemed that you were not an essential user you were "standardised".
Watch out for a large number of 19" flat screens appearing on eBay!

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

...what is the technical advantage of change as there appears to be no economical advantage?
You didn't finish your sentence:

...to the MoD.

[spheroid]

The graphics cards in the Optiplexes are Dell specials designed for CAD work IIRC - Quadro FXs - they have dual outputs from a single socket

Dear God what are you talking about...? Complete and utter gobbletheduke....

Why does DII need video cards and graphics cards and quadro FX's....? All it needs to provide is an function that will allow you to send Emails and some sort of Spreadsheet / Word programme....

[lancs]

If the digital analogue change was correct, the adaptor I pointed out would not work.... (DVI + gender bender = VGA or XGA etc.). It does.

[Pontius Navigator]

Spheroid, we actually Dii/f is intended to 'deliver network enabled capabilty' in the words of those in Starship Enterprise and now selling ground heat pumps or double glazing.

I think the secret of all this goobledegook is that the stars don't understand what they are told. Rather than ask or try and re-write in plain English, thus proving they don't know, they simply reiterate what they have been told.

Emperor's clothes and all that.

As someone said earlier, the mistake is to equate seniority with the ability to understand detail. Remember Tony Blair and George Bush couldn't use computers.

[dallas]

I think the secret of all this goobledegook is that the stars don't understand what they are told. Rather than ask or try and re-write in plain English, thus proving they don't know, they simply reiterate what they have been told.
A recurrent theme, from what I've observed.

Apparent lack of knowledge = weakness. Instead transmit, up until you get to very high level, whereupon you just go on visits.

[8-15fromOdium]

PN I agree with you on this:

Odium, no it isn't. Atlas are removing perfectly good 19 inch and larger VGA VDU and replacing them with 17 inch DVI VDU. Then, if you want a 19 inch you have to make a business case to buy a new 19 inch display.



The connector isn't the problem, the contract spec is. You can get 17" and 19" VDU's with DVI &/or VGA connectors. On a technical note the VGA connectors mean that the PC video card will have a Digital to Analogue convertor, the signal will be transported to the monitor as analogue, and the monitor will then be converting the Analogue back to Digital so the image can be displayed, DVI just cuts out the need for the two conversions (the idea being to help maintain signal quality and system reliability-less to go wrong). VGA was great when we were using CRT monitors, but now the vast majority are LCD, DVI is a more sensible choice. However most monitor manufacturers still ship with both VGA and DVI inputs.

It seems to me that people are (quite rightly) hacked off because they are losing 19" screens in favour of 17" ones. This is a loss in capability, screen estate is a major factor in efficient working for those who spend all day in front of a PC.

Finally Dallas and PN I must violently agree with you concerning the 'knowledge' of some of our seniors, it seems the words of Trenchard have long been forgotten:

“Technical knowledge will, inter alia, qualify an officer for selection for high command”

[Pontius Navigator]

the words of Trenchard have long been forgotten:

“Technical knowledge will, inter alia, qualify an officer for selection for high command”

The corollary is 'broadbrush' or as our pongo friends would say, big hands, small map.

[CounterSunk]

Christmas looms and the earlier flurry of DII activity seems to have stalled. I gather that (from snippets gleaned in the mess) the future home of military air transport was never anywhere near ready to accept the new system. A series of compromises have been agreed by both sides to avoid contractual penalties. It seems the installation of IT into empty buildings was a 'quick win' for both sides; ie, no delay penalty for the MoD and a huge payment triggered for ATLAS.

Absolute madness. At the sharp end, we seem no nearer to getting what we actually need. The Sqns have been warned to expect to have to down (IT) tools for 48 hours to facilitate the installation of the system. BOCS is still a concern and it seems the whole shooting match may decant to Wiltshire (how will that work?) to avoid the legacy payments ATLAS demand. I may also have to sell a kidney to fund a DII laptop, (possibly both if I wish to use it whilst 'mobile'). How on earth can these costs be justified?

On the support side, already the CIS staff seem to have been thinned out, smacks of another short sighted knee jerk reaction to change, pretty much like the JPA TG17 situation.

Are ATLAS providing for the A400 and FSTA projects when they start to mature? God forbid.

[8-15fromOdium]

Public Accounts Committee have reported on DII, BBC report here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7830222.stm). Full PAC report here (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmpubacc/100/100.pdf). It doesn't make good reading - I was amused by para 16 on page 15:

The Department monitors the performance of DII using indicators measured by ATLAS. At the time of the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report, ATLAS was not measuring all of indicators as specified in the contract. The Department can abate its monthly payment charge to ATLAS if indicators are not measured according to the contract, and if users experience poor availability or performance of DII. It has not exercised its right to penalise ATLAS where indicators have not been measured or have been measured manually. It has also not recorded where it has foregone abatements to use in commercial negotiations with ATLAS. The Department confirmed that all performance indicators are now being measured although some continue to be measured manually rather than electronically, and said that the results show the DII system was performing well.


So, in short, ATLAS are marking their own homework. :ugh:

[Wader2]

PIs are listed within the process statement. IIRC, to create a new account should be done within hours, to create up to 20 accounts within 24 hrs and so on.

Early on these PI were not know to either the customer or the worker. When it was pointed out they moved the goal posts and said the clock started when they opened up the work stream (ie saw the task).

When it was pointed out that the task had been acknowledged in minutes and was now 2-3 weeks over due they had another get-out-of-jail card. the work said "Awaiting user input" but they never told the user that an input was required :(

Once we got to know where the jokers were and started to hold them to account - at first we had not in-house POC for complaints either - things improved dramatically.

I remain to be convinced yet that they have a firm grasp of the size of the task - 300 000 plus users of whom possibly a third will change roles every year, 10% will leave and 10% will be recruited you have a basic churn of about 750 account changes per day!

[TMJ]

I read this article today and thought it was jolly familiar...

A shared IT system: what could possibly go wrong? | Technology | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jan/15/politics-dvla-michael-cross)

[Lyneham Lad]

...but according to the MOD, everything is fine and dandy!

DEFENCE NEWS: 15 JANUARY 2009

Several national newspapers have reported that the Ministry of Defence has spent almost £1 billion attempting to upgrade the computer system used across the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII). The House of Commons' Public Accounts Committee (PAC) claims that the MOD conducted 'inadequate research' prior to installing the system and that a 'major miscalculation' has led to months of delays. The DII programme is on track to enable benefits of £1.5 billion over 10 years and has already delivered improvements to the operation of existing MOD systems, two early new capabilities to forces in Afghanistan and 'Single Point Of Contact' help desk facilities, providing an improved service to MOD users. MOD Permanent Secretary, Sir Bill Jeffrey, said: "The DII programme is one of the largest in Government. It has taken longer to deliver then we had intended, but it is being rolled out across the Department and is already delivering benefits. We are confident that remaining problems will be overcome, with the help of our commercial partners in the Atlas consortium. We have already overcome some complex challenges, and have learned the lessons of the early stages of the project. As the PAC report notes, the commercial structure of the programme is robust, and costs have been kept within 3% of the original budget."

[Mighty Quercus]

Forget DII I would like to be able to use the normal pc system. By all accounts most units have been infected with a virus. My work PC now has a nice poster on it " Infected do not use" No forecast as to when this virus will be fixed. 90su have been mobilised to go to infected units to sort this mess out.

Anyway makes for a stress free day in the office, looks like an early stack tomorrow.

I wonder how far this virus has spread!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

A static purple unit in East Anglia was out last week.

Interesting that I heard that by chance on Monday and only in writing in pprune tonight.

Do we know what the virus was? I had a couple about 10 days ago on my home machine. One where you could not opened a drive in My Computer. There was an autorun.inf file that refered to resycle.exe. It infeceted all drives but was easy to delete.

[Lurking123]

Maybe they should have bought some Apple Macs instead. :}

[CounterSunk]

It is a worm, not a virus, whatever the difference may be. This snippet came from our IT support chap as he yawned and moaned (they had to work 12 hours yesterday, dontcha know?) his way around the section looking at PC's. Lots of chin scratching and phone calls back to the mothership seeking advice. Even impending meltdown can't instill any urgency into SERCO................................:ugh:

[TMJ]

I would hope no-one who knows will mention what the infection is. Sy, dirty words, etc etc.

The fact of the infection is in the public domain and acknowledged though.
Public Service - Virus hits the Royal Navy and RAF (http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=8257)

[Data-Lynx]

Out of a bunker not that far from Watford, grumpy aircrew who came in over the weekend to prepare for DII/F were heard to say:If DII is the effin' future, where do I get a life?
This reader has proof that it is easier to emigrate to Australia than it is to get your Migration File back from ATLAS.

[vecvechookattack]

This reader has proof that it is easier to emigrate to Australia than it is to get your Migration File back from ATLAS

My unit were a bit clever and decided that we couldn't trust Atlas to save our migration folders and so we saved them all onto discs and then reloaded them. Dii came and by lunchtime we were up and running with all the group folders in the correct place and available to all. I have to say though that Dii is a heap better than NOA was....... colour printers.... scanners.... internet access..... I wouldn't give up my Dii laptop for all the tea...etc

[The B Word]

My unit were a bit clever and decided that we couldn't trust Atlas to save our migration folders and so we saved them all onto discs and then reloaded them

Great for the RESTRICTED system but no so easy for the dark-side...

I lost loads of data never to be seen again :sad:

[CounterSunk]

The rumour mill is working overtime at the moment. Seems that, due to a lack of funding (or rather a lack of control of funding) that ATLAS may not now complete the planned pan-MOD roll-out. Where does that leave us?

[Data-Lynx]

For a bitter view on Govt IT waste, try yesterday's The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/06/gov_it_waste/). While it leans towards the geek and considers more than just Defence, there is one rant:
And I don't mean the sham of a 'citizen centric' soundbite which actually entails the producer second-guessing what a citizen might want. The public sector needs an information architecture where appropriate information is centralised but fulfilment is localised.
An attempt to decode this for aviators might say: The military sector needs professionals outside the squadron to provide, in a timely manner, all the latest trusted electronic information on sufficent PCs (sorry - User Access Devices) for the crews to plan their missions locally.

What do we potentially lose if DII applies the '80% is sufficient' rule of business and does a runner? We lose a solution to all the deployed user requirements, which we already know will not be delivered in what is left of this decade.

So What? There is so much electronic stuff out there: planning with task & control orders, battlespace management, orders, Int, maps, charts, weather & environment, threat with likely enemy intent, significant activity, own callsigns - locations - movement, freqs and comms stuff. Your fixers also place increasing relience on engineering and asset management stuff for modern aircraft. Isn't this what we need to fulfil our tasks?

How well would DII/F would do this? We are still waiting to see the proposals but there is no alternative.

[CounterSunk]

Oh dear. I heard today that the contract for the delivery of DII to all remaining MOD sites has been signed off. If this is true (I have my doubts), how on earth can the cost be justified? God help us if this electronic pestilance has been endorsed and is really on the way..................

[Mr C Hinecap]

C_S - in August you were concerned that it wouldn't get rolled out. Now you are concerned that it will get rolled out.

Would anything make you happy?

[Pontius Navigator]

The concern should not be that the MOD has an integrated system but the sheer expense and worse, the waste of money, as perfectly usable old systems are junked. Not only that but there was no clear migration route from old to new.

At one point I was told that migration was part of the deal. In the event I did my own migration and later they expressly stated that they would not do migration.

[SirToppamHat]

I heard today that the contract for the delivery of DII to all remaining MOD sites has been signed off.

I don't have the source of your information CounterSunk, but I was led to understand that the decision on whether or not to fund Tranche 3a would be made by the Treasury in Mar 10. A different decision, on whether to employ Atlas to commence work on the 'preparations' for this next monster, was expected prior to Christmas - it seems this may now have happened.

Trebles All Round.

STH

[vecvechookattack]

Having been working with DII(F) for the best part of a year now I have to say it is a first class system. Everything works, the internet is fast, even the wireless stuff works very well. Its a bit of a shame that we still have the old MS word programme but apart from that its good. The help staff are very helpful and in general most queries are sorted quickly. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to NOA.

[Pontius Navigator]

But it is very expensive for an Office and email application. An account costs, IIRC, £39 per month. Old equipment is removed by Atlas regardless of how new it is and they do not use existing infrastructure.

The colour laser uses 4 cartridges at a knock down price of £250 each and they found they could not install it as a network printer.

The installation was mind numbingly expensive - the cost of a hole in a single skin breeze block wall was £120. That is JUST for the hole.

[vecvechookattack]

The colour laser uses 4 cartridges at a knock down price of £250 each

The B&W ones are cheap and in plentiful supply... A colour printer would be very nice but I'm not sure the RN's budget would stretch to that

[SirToppamHat]

And herein lies the rub. The MOD is being ripped-off left right and centre - 19" monitors recently supplied where I work were sourced on the basis of the DII(F) spec (and are actually exactly the same monitors as those in the catalogue), but will need to be replaced by 17" versions. New business/ DSE cases will need to be written to justify their replacement to AIR (not our command, but the lead for the tranche) at a cost of £500 - £600 EACH!

"Ah but that includes through-life support!". For a monitor?

That said, some things are inexpensive (MS Project for example), but I honestly don't believe this project is set to deliver the value for money we need, and I will be amazed if the Treasury doesn't see through the only partially-clothed emporer that is DII(F).

The problem many units will face is that the money has already been taken away from local managers to assist in the transfer, but my spies tell me that the project itself is already broke, like some monstrous pyramid scheme. We have little money left to support our own systems, yet DII(F) keeps getting put further and further back.

STH

[Widger]

The real sadness is when an IT project can make or break the future of far more important projects (Estates?), just because of the cost of installing the infrastructure outweighs any benefits. Tail wagging the dog, it is happening already.

[Pontius Navigator]

The B&W ones are cheap and in plentiful supply... A colour printer would be very nice but I'm not sure the RN's budget would stretch to that

VV, you don't really have a choice. Your unit, maybe the HQ, will get at least one colour to be shared. Then as Sir TH says, cheap and cheerful is not in the lexicon.

I had a lot of floppy disks that we used for sneaker net. I made the point and they were hapy to proivde a USB floppy just for me :)

However we lost 3 Dii/c and only got 2 Dii/f in replacement. We also got a hideous, fridge sized, SDP, hung high on a wall in the wrong place. The bill to move it to the right place was a cool £18k.

There is also the farce of getting a new account opened. As the AD I have to ask the LSO to confirm that the new person is properly cleared. The catch is that this is an off-line process and I simply say 'yes he is'. I am also supposed to ask the budget manager for financial approval.

Good game.

They also produce a 'business continuity plan' that is supposed to cover everything including loss of a building or even a site. That we have been practising and improvising contingency plans for the last 40 years or so in Tacevals seems to have escaped them. Now they expect me to help write the manual, study it each year, reapprove etc etc - then it sits on a shelf gathering dust.

We had a training course that taught us the bleedin obvious (part of tha package) but no training in how to actually administer the system.

[14greens]

What is this strange DII I hear of?

Went in to get my envelope with my log in datails eg user name and password, to find i do not have 1, and yes i have completed the required paperwork, apparently the problem is that I have only been back on the sqn for 18 months!!! so the system does not know where i am!!! HOW SCARY is that

So will happily come in to work, do my tasking and go home!! cant log on so hey, only downer is how to do my HTD? Ahh I remember now, that has been screwed up as well in the apparent improvement to the system
oh well

[BEagle]

If there was one utter PITA during my lst few years in the RAF, it was wanquerres with wires installing some promised 'network' system or other every few months, or so it seemed....

None of which added anything to our efficiency. Just more and more screens cluttering up the Ops desks of the squadrons.

Bosses stopped being bosses who fired files down to lesser folk - they became Wg Cdr Typists. Always gazing at screens full of junk e-mails instead of leading their squadrons.

It started with that slow, unwieldy thing called ASMA, then we had the abysmal STARS which occupied hours of peoples' time. Oh, and SAMA...:sad: None of which systems actually achieved much which a phone, fax or chinagraph board couldn't achieve more simply, cheaply and flexibly. But Our Great Leaders were seduced by this crap, even though anything useful was banned by the leaden-footed CIS-pigs with their paranoia.

Has any of this $hIT-system been specified by the end user - or anyone familiar with the end users' requirements? Or is it, as usual, a question of "Here it is, now make it work"....:(

[proplover]

Well well, I wondered how long it would be before this thread was back!!

My personel view from being involved on the infrastructure side since the start (DiiA) - DiiF, Ive never seen such a flagrant waste of money. The award of the contract to EDS and then to Atlas has to go down as one of the biggest mismanagements of a contract that Ive seen in many years!! DiiC wasnt perfect but the management was far more cost effective.
For example: The idiot idea of employing one company to survey and do a design, spend in most cases 12 months (!!!) discussing it and going through various stages of sign off only to employ a totally different company to carry out the work. Problems, a) its become obvious to the installer that the design company often never visited the site or all the buildings and did the design off usually out of date drawings which didnt show any existing infrastructure so that 2nd company cant actually install to 12 month old and multi signed off design or b)the units that occupied said buildings 12months earlier have long gone and said design is now totally useless to new units (this happend many times particulary with Army barracks - dont you know theres a war on was the oft received comment! DiiC with an intagrated management\design\installation team from survey through sign off to start - max 12 weeks.

I have been stunned at some of the pre-start meetings. DiiC had an average of 8 (relavent)people - DiiF, well the first I attended had 18, the worst was an unbelievable 22 - mainly contractors all on between £150 - £400 a day and most of them couldnt make a decision to save their lives - it always had to be 'refered' - never mind it'll be another meeting - ie more dosh. I went to one site way up north, the job was worth say £x to my company to install it. To comply with the Atlas methodology of meetings and sign offs etc etc the cost of all the attendee's I worked out to be £x times 6.25!!!
I went to one army site where 2 years earlier a new DiiC duct system around the site was installed. The 'brilliant' Atlas design company gave me a design (signed off!!) that replicated 75% of the total existing route all for 2 cables!! When I queeried it I was told that I should mind my own business and that this was DiiF mate, as much new as possible!! In this case someone saw sense and stopped it, the 2 cables went in the DiiC duct BUT I know of many installation companies that would simply just put in duplicate duct systems, or new containment etc. Eventually MOD realised they were going to run out of money long before the Increment 2 work was to be complete. ALL TO LATE.
I could go on but I find it so depressing - in a nutshell, MOD had been taken for a ride by EDS and 'we' all paid a heavy price (we = military and taxpayer). A much earlier comment about how the contract was awarded was exactly right.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tories today will issue a paper saying they will cap Government IT projects at £100,000,000 (£100m). How will this sit against the Dii/F cost of £7,300,000,000 (£7,300m). Even spread over 25 years that is rather more than £100m.

There is another fiasco due to hit the streets in 2013. Landmarc has the contract to run the Defence Training Estate until 2013. If they lose the contract then a huge number of user accounts will need to be readdressed as they as all @landmarc.mod.uk :(

[tmmorris]

Lots of us in insignificant corners of the MOD empire (cadets in my case) don't have access to Dii because they can't economically connect us and they don't want traffic over the internet (they don't trust encryption). So - the solution? Put all the restricted stuff on CD and pop it in the post.

:ugh:

T

[cornish-stormrider]

I suppose its a little too late for Yakkety Sax and spinning bow ties??

IT, the bane of our lives.

Fly Safe and don't get distracted.

[vecvechookattack]

Went in to get my envelope with my log in datails eg user name and password, to find i do not have 1, and yes i have completed the required paperwork, apparently the problem is that I have only been back on the sqn for 18 months!!! so the system does not know where i am!!! HOW SCARY is that

Thats not a problem with Dii. Thats a problem with your Squadron not telling Dii that you were on the Sqdn. You Squadron IT Officer needs a good kick.

[Pontius Navigator]

Thats not a problem with Dii. Thats a problem with your Squadron not telling Dii that you were on the Sqdn. You Squadron IT Officer needs a good kick.

Were it that simple. Your sqn Ad must complete the ASR with the users PUID.

Get my drift?

The system does not actually need to know that the user is on the sqn or anything as the login is universal and personal. Essential what the AD does regarding the sqn is to ensure that the personal login is associated with a role ID and with group share ID.

Now I was never able to get a group share set up nor was I able to get a new account set up as the system came up with some 'invalid data' type message. The help desk couldn't and it was kicked up the line to the software team. Two months later I retired. I bet my ID is still functional because as the AD I was unable to cancel my account nor get a new AD to replace me.

I have used the abbreviations as they form the new language that users must learn when the use their UAD to log on with the new details from the LSO.

PS The AD is UAD is different from AD :}

[Mr C Hinecap]

Has any of this $hIT-system been specified by the end user - or anyone familiar with the end users' requirements? Or is it, as usual, a question of "Here it is, now make it work"....

Yes - the RAF Logistics IT system that was USAS, now MJDI. A magnificent success that was driven and (until recently) maintained largely by Stackers. Make any smart-aerse comments about 'computer says no' etc, but it has been superlative for over 20 years in various guises and forms the basis for the future Tri Service system.

[BEagle]

When some aspect of the Stackers' empire went purple, most of the clothing was looked after by the Pongoes near Bicester, or so we were told.

Into Clothing Stores I went one happy day, at long last having been promoted. "May I have some Sqn Ldr rank braid please?".

"Sorry Sir, nil stock - and the Army can't locate it. It seems there's no demand!" said the civvy.

"Well, it doesn't surprise me that the Army has little demand for Sqn Ldr rank braid, but I do. Can you 'escalate the demand' or whatever you need to do?"

"Certainly, sir - I'll do whatever I can"

Soon after, someone in somewhere like Harrogate waved a magic wand and our friendly local Stackers soon received miles and miles of Sqn Ldr rank braid. The Army computer might have said 'No', but some human knew how to sort it out...:ok:

Computers are marvellous when they are used as an assistant, b£oody awful when allowed to become a master.

[Pontius Navigator]

How many of the previous systems will be available through Dii? HRMS and JPA are available as are applications such as OJAR and SJAR but there is a cost attached to getting a system acredited to Dii - EAMS for one is not acredited.

[dkh51250]

The Stackers "success" story goes back to the AEI 1010 purchased from Manchester University in 1964.

What a shame the Army never took up the generous offer of utilising USAS in the early 90s because it would have meant fewer boots on the ground.

It has taken the rebranding of USAS into MJDI to make the system acceptable to the Army. All we have to do now is teach them to use it, best of luck on that one Russ.

DKH

[vecvechookattack]

Were it that simple. Your sqn Ad must complete the ASR with the users PUID.

Which takes about 30 seconds. Then you send the new ASR to Atlas and they will add you to the new unit. The problem with the way you are doing it is expecting the AD to sort it out. One of the Squadron aircrew must be the IT security Officer...or the LSO....they can do it very quickly. On my last Squadron the Ops Officer was the LSO / ITSO and he did it all for the entire Squadron.

[CounterSunk]

C_S - in August you were concerned that it wouldn't get rolled out. Now you are concerned that it will get rolled out.

Would anything make you happy?


Mr C. Back in August I was concerned that a stalled roll-out would effectively isolate some units/HQ's due to a lack of synch between DII and legacy networks. Having tasted DII, albeit very briefly, I am certainly not a fan.

Now we are (apparently) getting the remainder of the common platform (however flawed it may be) at least we will all be on a joined-up 'grid'.....if this is true though; how will the beancounters justify the jaw dropping cost of delivery when the media focus is most definately on the lack of funding/equipment/support to current Ops in Afghanistan?

[vecvechookattack]

TheMinistry of Defence(MoD) has awarded the Atlas Consortium, led by HP, an $890m contract as part of the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) programme.

The contract work will aim to "improve global collaboration and communication between MoD and its allies".

The contract, called Increment 3a, is the next phase of the DII.

It will see Atlas providing 42,000 computer terminals, which will operate in the "restricted and secret" domains. The new equipment will apparently replace "outdated and expensive legacy systems".

The terminals will support 60,000 employees in the Royal Air Force, Joint Helicopter Command and other MoD locations.

The Atlas consortium also includes Fujitsu, EADS Defence and Security Systems, General Dynamics and Logica.


Huw Owen, chief executive officer, ATLAS Consortium and vice president, HP Enterprise Services Defence and Security in the UK, said: "It is critical to national defence that the MoD and its allies have highly secure and real-time global access to the information they need."

DII is the largest defence IT programme of its type in the world. When delivered in full, IT implemented under the project will provide services to around 300,000 users at some 2,000 locations worldwide.



The terminals will support 60,000 employees in the Royal Air Force, Joint Helicopter Command and other MoD locations.


Crikey....that surely must be one PC each...!!!!

[oldgrubber]

You're not joking about expensive legacy machines. The trouble is we're stuck with having to pay a truly mind boggling amount for every legacy machine that is retained after DII rollout. So the RN and RAF introduce an aircraft management system for their Merlin fleets that's not supported (at the same time as DII rollout), and the system now requires NOA machines to function.
Cracking!
The shame is DII actually does seem to work!
(Vecvechookattack will know how much per legacy machine it costs, I'm sure)

[Pontius Navigator]

at a cost of two CVS

[VitaminGee]

The Survey and results were independently assessed and reflected that overall performance of the DII(F) service is typical for a programme of its size, complexity and maturity, at this point in its life-cycle.
:rolleyes:

Methinks the words in italics could be condensed into a single word, any suggestions..............?

[Gainesy]

Size, Complexity And Maturity

[newbiep]

On the recieving end of DII at the moment and I agree it does seem to work, but having been in the commercial sector too, IT is something that you have to throw money at to make work, unless you have some intelligent and hard working professionals on hand happy to take ownership and see the project through. Happily those people exist, but get posted around and don't get the opportunity to see systems through to the end. All new implementations need people who understand the locale and the customer and who can identify users that effectively test the system to distruction through normal usage to iron out bugs. It would be really helpful if this implementation team was centralised and moved around en masse or left in their current posting to see the project through from start to finish. Equally a good system would be for a floating team(s) to move from base to base to start and finish the project. Would make life so much easier for the user!

[vecvechookattack]

Id totally agree....having been with Dii(f) for over 12 months now it really is loads better than Navystar ..... Dii(f) works....its fast....the Broadband speed is reasonable....the wifi capability is OK (adequate).....


Its not the best IT network available BUT its the best we could afford

[Pontius Navigator]

Vec, the best we could afford? You must be joking. The price of two CVS?

Security is so tight it throttles the process. To close down a Dii/c account took 20 minutes. To restart the Dii/f account took a week. To add new accounts should take a day for up to 5 and longer for more. You need to jump through hoops to get anything done. You need to be on top of the game to follow things through. The bigger the organisation the more you need one person to keep on to Atlas.

If you ever get hold of a trouble shooters email address or telephone number, guard it with your life.

[vecvechookattack]

I'm just saying that it is a heap better than the last thing.... who wants to go back to snailband, no Colour Printer....No Laptop....No Wifi....No scanners....the IT we have now is loads better than it was....

A new bloke joined our Office last week (unannounced - a sort of pierhead jump) . He joined at 08:00....he contacted the I-Hub at 08:15 and by 9am he was logged on. That efficiency wouldn't have happened with Navystar

[proplover]

Lost sight of this thread for a quite a while and interested to see the latest comments.
Believe me in 'F' your paying a lot for what your getting. Also believe me that the companies actually doing the work are not the ones getting the big ££££'s either.