Finance, what would you do?

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Hi guys,

I am one of many people(wannabes) who havent got rich parents, and will have to seek dosh from else where.

So my question being, is that out of all you guys and gals out there where did you and have gone to, to get the finances to support your training, being 0 to aptl or what ever?

Any answers, would be very helpful.(NO SARKY ONES PLS) lol. :hmm:


Many thanks


TWW. :ok:

[Farrell]

Before you start.....read this

http://www.pprune.org/forums/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/332706-same-when-you-were-having-your-flight-training.html

[Whirlygig]

There are scores of threads on funding training; please search. Everyone's circumstances are different, so what works for one may not work for another.

Your choices are:- a) work hard and save or, b) borrow the money. It's as simple as that!

Cheers

Whirls

[rons22]

you can put parents house as a guarantee and borrow descent sum of money

[ford cortina]

Dead easy, Take out a bloody big Life Assurance policy and then go canoing.
Make sure the Canoe is found without your body and live happily ever after.
Just don't go to Panama and get your photo taken with a estate agent!
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[bjkeates]

you can put parents house as a guarantee and borrow descent sum of moneyYou could, although to do that in the current economic climate you'd have to be mad.

[HomerJay]

In the next couple of weeks Im going to the bank looking for 35k euros secured against my parents house.

I have been working full time for 6 years to try pay for flying and its a lot harder than people make out. I have the PPL, some hour building and the atpl exams nearly finished, and I'm still in debt. I am not prepared to work into my thirties to pay for the rest, living at home with parents and being broke constantly year in year out.

I know the consequences of a big loan in the current market could be far greater but I'm going ahead with it. Thats if I can get the loan of course.

[scott5988]

Hi Welishie,I have approached HSBC for my loan and im waiting for an interveiw to be arranged. I will lt you know the verdict of the chat with them. Also, i have been working my balls off trying to get a lump of money behind me so the bank have more of a chance of lending me the money. I am an elecrtcian and have been woking 13 hour shifts!!! Hopefully im still standing when the bank give me an interveiw lolbest wishes and good luck!

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Thanks Scott, send me a pm with the results if you like.

tnx

TWW :ok:

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

I will try to re-phase.

What banks and b/s did you all use to get the £kk, if thats what you did.


Thanks for the all the serious replys guys.

TWW :)

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Talk about a dampner on it. bloody hell lol

Tnx any way :\



TWW :)

[Vortex Thing]

bjkeates
Quote:
you can put parents house as a guarantee and borrow descent sum of money
You could, although to do that in the current economic climate you'd have to be mad.

So why would you have to be mad to do that then? The inherent value of property is only important at the time of sale.

Nominally if your parents have an average 3 bed semi (in the south east before the arguments starts) then that is a circa £400,000 house). Lets say you have a £250k mortgage on the house this is about a £1500pcm effort.

So if you borrow £100k from them you can pay for zero to hero including type rating, line training, food, accom the works and even include loss of earnings over say 18-24 months. (let's not get thread creep to discuss the morals of this route)

So to the balance sheet your parents (or your own) the house has 100k secured on it. This doesnt affect your resale value and the money has been borrowed at 6 or 7% which you would never get from a bank you need to repay £500-700 per month when you are working which from a £2k pcm salary is easy and from a £3k salary is almost hardly noticeable.

You have only one creditor and they are family, interest rate is set and regardless of market conditions when it picks up you are ready with everything done. Maybe you get a job straight away maybe you take 5 years to get one. That's just down to right time, right place, right people stuff.

This works if you are 18 or 48 why on earth would you not use available equity!!!!!!!!!!!!It would be mad NOT to.

P.S. For those who go what about if the house prices fall, well unless you sell why would it matter, you just wait until they go up again!! Let's be honest since 1922 house prices have doubled every 7 years ON AVERAGE so whilst your £400k house with 250k +100k of security may fall in value to 200k at some point in this slump or any other slump as long as you do not sell it your mortgage doesn't change and you do not loose anything. In fact you save as there is no way that you can borrow money any cheaper than that.

Before you ask. I borrowed money for training against my own property in exactly this fashion and have reaped the rewards.

VT

[HappyFran]

Only tiny titchy possible problem: Were is this £2-3k/pm going to come from after 18 months unemployment. :ooh::ooh:

[ix_touring]

Also bare in mind that with a second charge (ie 2nd mortgage, "putting your parent's house up" etc) that his is a SECOND charge over the property. This means they get second dibs on the proceeds of the sale, after the 1st charge holder.

A quick Google suggests that a 2nd charge holder cannot force the sale of or repossession of said security... (though they could still make life awkward!

iX

[preduk]

I get all of my money from University and a 24hour part time job then I work over 48hours a week during the summer to save up for the rest of the year, not easy but I'm debt free.

[Nearly There]

I know a chap who can help with finance but its really only for FIC or a T/R, and you would require a fall back career to build into a business plan.

I also know a chap who can drasticaly reduce any credit card/unsecured loan debts you might have accrued during flight training, without effecting your credit profile.

PM if you want anymore details or putting in touch.

PS its all above board and legal!:ok:

[mcbenny]

Hi there from Italy! :)

It's more than a year since I started my career as a truck driver here in Italy. Currently driving across Europe, mainly Germany, Belgium, France, Austria, The Netherlands... Getting veeeeery envious everytime I drive close to an airfield (today I was loading my truck near Graz airport when a Lauda 737-800 took off...:))
It's a long road to save all that money for fATPL + Type Rating and it's tough life also, I sleep on the truck 6 out of 7 days a week. I have a daily budget for food, I'm not going to buy a car to drive to work on the weekends, I prefer to use the bus+train combination which, although often uncomfortable, makes me save money.
Spending 1 day a week at home only, I'm not required to leave my parents any money so most of my pay goes to my deposit account.
Very little time to have fun at the end of the week :{:{
I haven't got my own family, not currently engaged so I'm free to handle my life as I want.
3 more years and I should reach my target budget, but I can tell you that I'd have no problems in driving my truck for additional months, better be well covered financially than rushing the beginning of the ATPL.
I'm of course opting for the modular route, but I'm gonna do it full-time so when I decide to start the fATPL I'll quit my driver job.
I passed my Class 1 at Gatwick a couple of years ago, I haven't renewed it so far, it was just to see if I was medical fit for Commercial flying.

In case something goes wrong (you never knows) I always have my driving license in my pocket :ok: but of course I'm heading to that beloved RHS!!!!

Just my opinion and the way I've decided to solve the financial problems, my parents too can't help me even though they've spent a fortune on their new house :mad::mad::mad::mad:
Whichever you decide to do...

GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND TO ALL OF US WANNABES, NEVER GIVE UP!!!

[A and C]

One of the few things that myself and the profit of doom WWW agree on is that now is not the time for credit.

Get your self another job (I had three) and work all the hours that god sends, in three years you will have the money for the ATPL and a hoilday.

Take two weeks out on holiday to recover from the work and then get your head down for the ATPL.

It all may seen hard at the time but in the long run you will win, having no bank looking for the interest each month.

[Bombs Away]

Following the same route as mcbenny. Been quietly saving away for the past two years and by this time next year should have over a hundred thousand in the kitty. More than enough to go intergrated and come out the other side debt free. Can't wait. There was no way in hell I was gonna ask the parents to put up their house as security on a loan. They've done enough for me all ready.

Work hard and with a little patience which a lot of people on here don't seem to have, you can get through the training without owing anyone anything.

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Thanks for that one benny.

Keep on trucking dude!:ok:


Regards

TWW:)

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Thanks nt, i will think about it.

Cheers again.

Regards

TWW :)

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Thanks for that mate, iam working hard at the moment, i am just looking at different options thats all.

Thanks for the reply.

Good advise, at the present time really.:)

TWW

[RMarvin86]

What you can do, is to take the modular way and fly according to what you can efford. I think this is not a bad idea as you will not make debits, you fly once or twice a week taking a longer time into the training with maybe better results as you can take your own time to absorb the theory and practice. But whatever will be your decision I suggest you to start as early as possible with the theory books as they will require the greatest time of your training.

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Thanks for that rm86. I think i will most proberly go down that route.

TWW:)

[JohnRayner]

What I'm going to try to do is end up in as little debt over this as possible. I believe debt makes you inflexible in terms of what you need to earn to pay it off, and I'd rather have fun at the end of my fatpl instructing or turbo-propping, or cargo hauling, or whatever I can get, instead of getting annoyed and moody because I'm not getting the 40k pa I need to start paying off my loans.

I dunno if this bit is true, but I also can't help but think that if you can demonstrate a bit of basic financial management and some commitment to the long-ish haul (saving, budgeting etc.) rather than diving in feet first using someone else's money, would this not be of use in those all-important interviews? In a sober planning vs. puppy dog frenetic engagement kind of way?

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Your best bet mr wizard would be to have a look at either HSBC or Natwest. Hsbc are linked with oxford but at the moment are starting to become reluctant to hand out large amounts of dosh, you don't have to put your parents house on the market neither, you can obtain an unsecured loan from hsbc for upto 25,000 pounds. obviously you have to show you have a bit of money incase it all goes pe tong. They will expect you to write a rarther large buisness plan, but as i said they are being rarther tight with the old mular! Natwest are a bit similar but are quite happy to give away upto 35,000 pound unsecured. They are not tight with the money and also very quick in producing it unlike Hsbc, but they were busy at the time! I started with hsbc then when i heard about natwest i changed paid off my hsbc loan and the rest of the natwest loan helped pay the next installment. If you give me a pm i can give you the details of contacts etc.
Good Luck:ok:

[THE WELSH WIZARD]

Thanks for that mate, i will send you a pm next week if ok. iam off to farnbrough this weekend.

Talk soon
Regards

TWW:ok:

[preduk]

I would try and avoid a loan as much as possible. 25k loan plus interest is a lot of money especially when you start setteling down and need a house/car etc.

[docash1983]

Hi guys I would like your opinion on the following. I have compiled the following on Flybe's payment schedule for repayment of the loan for FTE at £82,700.00. The following has been compiled using the data from the BBVA bank for repayments along with a base rate of 6.75%. I am particularly interested to see how those who have been through a similar process have survived along with meeting the repayments.

Cheers docash1983

LOAN Repayments On: £82,700.00



Monthly repayment £1,180.49 @ 12 months = 14165.88 leaves £68534.12 plus interest = £74116.37 (example)

Year : 1
Annual Salary:£25068
Monthly Repayment: £1180.49
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £5582.25
Amount paid off over the Year: £14165.88
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £74116.37

Year : 2
Annual Salary: £27950
Monthly Repayment: £1180.49
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £5002.85
Amount paid off over the Year: £14165.88
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £64953.35

Year : 3
Annual Salary: £29677
Monthly Repayment: £1180.49
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £4384.35
Amount paid off over the Year: £14165.88
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £55171.82

Year : 4
Annual Salary: £31405
Monthly Repayment: £1300.50
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £3724.09
Amount paid off over the Year: £15606.00
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £43290.01

Year : 5
Annual Salary: £31977
Monthly Repayment: £1300.50
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £2705.62
Amount paid off over the Year: £15606.00
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £30389.63

Year : 6
Annual Salary: £32549
Monthly Repayment: £1300.50
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £2051.30
Amount paid off over the Year: £15606.00
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £16834.94

Year : 7
Annual Salary: £33121
Monthly Repayment: £1300.50
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £1136.35
Amount paid off over the Year: £15606.00
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £2365.00

Year : 8
Annual Salary: £33693
Monthly Repayment: £1300.50
Interest per year at 6.75 ([email protected]) %: £159.63
Amount paid off over the Year: £15606.00
Amount Outstanding Including Interest : £0 REPAYMENTS MET

[flyboy1818]

Sorry but the above is an absolute joke, have you typed that salary into a take home pay calculator to find out how much you take home after tax? I year one around £1600 per month, with a £1100 repayment to make!!

Living off £500 per month? Thats impossible! Even if you live with your parents!

[docash1983]

Yes thats why i put it up. I recently attended a seminar with some new Flybe pilots there and they told me that they could just about to afford to live. However, I am less optomistic which is why I wanted peoples views.

[preduk]

Sorry.. but I think you would have to be bonkers to have a loan like that...

You are 24, a good age to startsettling down soon (if you haven't already) so where are you going to get the money for a car, a social life, a house, a possible child etc when you have an 8 year payment plan to pay off.

It may be a dream, but that sort of plan is an unbelievably high risk.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

This is the reality that I have been seeing for many years now flying with people who have paid out these sort of sums.

It kind of works on £40k a year propert FO salary OR with a loan repayment suplement that avoids tax as per some of the CTC schemes.

It all falls apart though at normal TP FO salary with type rating costs. You'd be better off claiming a bad back on the dole and watching endless episodes of Airline all day on Freeview...

The willingness to get into MASSIVE debt by the twentysomethings scares me and is a huge behaviour change within a decade.

WWW

[G SXTY]

docash1983

I am intimately familiar with that payscale. As new FO you'll be taking home anywhere between £1600 & £1900 per month, depending on duty hours.

You could probably service that level of debt, but only if you managed without luxuries such as food and accommodation. (The crew food isn't bad though - and there's always plenty of spare All Day Breakfast sandwiches . . .) :yuk:

[AdamLT]

docash1983

you haven't included the flying pay Flybe pilots get. from what Capt. David Given was saying at the seminar, a F/O with Flybe gets around £29,000 for turboprops, and about £33,000 on jets.

now recalculate what you have above with these new figures.

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[G SXTY]

Take home pay is as I have stated.