Armed forces 'get free education'

[LFFC]

"Service personnel are to be given university education free of charge after they end their duty with the armed forces, it has been reported."

BBC News report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7503807.stm) - 12 Jul 08

Now, I wonder what the catch will be with this? If this is a new scheme and we loose nothing else in return, then it will be excellent.

However, call me Mr Cynical, but I wonder if this will replace the Enhanced Learning Credits (ELC) scheme (http://www.enhancedlearningcredits.com/mssql/index.html) that already allows most of us up to £6000 worth of training spread over 3 years, for up to 10 years after we have left the Service?

The really good thing about the ELC scheme is that it allows training by providers such as flying training schools, so you can use it to help get civilian licences etc. I certainly wouldn't like to see us loose that opportunity and have it replaced by a university course.

BBC News report:-

"According to the News of the World, personnel who complete six years service in the Army, Royal Navy or RAF will qualify for the scheme."
.
.
"Currently those serving in the armed forces can have tuition fees fully or partially paid for certain courses, but the incentives are based around retaining personnel. This new package can be taken even after they have left the service."

Big deal!! The ELC scheme can be used for up to 10 years after you've left the service and by people who have only served for 4 years! Do I detect the spin machine already at work to justify the loss of the ELC scheme?

[Biggus]

No doubt the devil will be in the detail, which we have yet to see. But in terms of the 'headline statement', i.e. university education - what about pre university educational qualifications, e.g A levels. Will the ex-military get a bye on that, so making a two tier situation and causing resentment from other students who have fully qualified, or if you are ex-military and don't have the pre-quals don't you get a slot - making it not actually a scheme open to all?

As someone who already has a degree, do I get funded for a second by the MOD when I leave the military?

Is this going to be a meaningful package, or, seeing that the RAF alone needs to recruit 4,500 odd this year, a recruitment incentive, on the basis of 'join the military now, put off your degree till later, you can do it when you leave and the MOD will pay the fees......'!!!

And of course it means the minister can stand up in the house and say how much they are looking after the troops - then again maybe they are, but at £9,000 a person, with an almost certain ultimate take up of well less than 100% (how many people leaving after 6-40 odd years in the military, with families to support, bills to pay, will be able to afford to take 3 years off to do a degree - even if the tuition fees are apaid for) its peanuts!

I do hope it is actually a good scheme - as I say, we will know when we see all the details........

[Bugs to forty]

I see your negative views on this but given the number of 6th form students who automatically feel they should go to university - combined with the need for the miltary to recruit similarly capable people at a younger age - isn't the appeal of getting them straight into service in everyones interest?

[minigundiplomat]

The Nu Labour guvment has broken it's track record this time. This is brilliant timing....just as evryone is thinking of leaving, they will pay for a degree!

Vote for Gordo.

[LFFC]

We need to put this into perspective. IIRC, the ELC scheme was introduced in Apr 04 and provided personnel who had served for 4 years with £1000 in each of 3 financial years whilst serving, or for up to 10 years after leaving. In those days, university tuition fees were £1000 a year.

So when it was introduced, the ELC scheme provided what the headlines are today proclaiming as a new initiative!

Of course, the ELC credits haven't been adjusted for inflation over the years and certainly weren't increased when the government raised university tuition fees from £1000 to £3000 a year! So this new announcement may be designed to keep up with the times!

But rather than spin this as something new, maybe the news headlines should actually read:

"MOD finally increases funding for the ELC scheme to compensate for the rise in university tuition fees - but increases the qualifying period from 4 years to 6 years!"

Sadly, it's precisely this kind of spin that is hacking so many servicemen off! I'm just waiting to see what savings will be made in order for the MOD budget to afford this, because sure-as-s**t there won't be any new money from government to fund it!!

[Yamagata ken]

Will the ex-military get a bye on that, so making a two tier situation and causing resentment from other students who have fully qualified, or if you are ex-military and don't have the pre-quals don't you get a slot - making it not actually a scheme open to all?Resentment from other students? Get a life. I was 29 with 3 "O" levels when I started uni. No-one expressed any resentment. The kiddies took their first year as a paid holiday while I worked up to "A" level standard. After that I creamed them. Anyone expressing resentment would have been twatted. No-one did, and no-one was.

[Biggus]

So where was it Ken - Oxford or Cambridge?

[N Joe]

I think the rationale behind the post-service degree idea was as an alternative to the current bursary system. You recruit aircrew straight from school, rather than after university, and get them into productive service at a younger age. The trade-off is that you still offer them the opportunity to go to university after their service.

Other than the timing, the end result for the individual is the same, 6 years service and a degree. The benefit for the military is that we get younger aircrew, when they are keen to travel and have fewer domestic ties and responsibilities; hence, they may be happier with more regular deployments. Also, if the individual goes "career", I suppose the military never has to pay for the degree.

N Joe

[Yamagata ken]

University of East Anglia, thankee very much

[Ali Barber]

Would that make us eligible for the student loan when we leave at 55?

[davejb]

Do the Open Uni while you are in -
it takes a bit of effort, but the courses are first class and your gratuity on exit becomes a nice buffer that covers any transition you might need into the econd career. On the other hand a couple of grand a year, after you've (hopefully) been earning a decent living in the RAF, just won't be that much of an attraction....

[airborne_artist]

The Fleet Air Arm have been doing this for a year:

New Degree guaranteed a flying start! (http://www3.open.ac.uk/media/fullstory.aspx?id=11498)

"The Open University has approved the new Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm Military Aviation Academy (RNFAAMAA) to deliver an OU-validated Foundation Degree Programme in Military Aviation Studies.

The students enjoy free tuition fees, earnings of up to £25k per year paid by the Royal Navy and a guaranteed career in the Royal Navy as a Pilot or Observer of very sophisticated helicopters or fast jets. In the latter case, RAF students who train alongside their Royal Navy colleagues will also be able to take advantage of the foundation degree scheme.
After graduating from the academy with their aircrew 'Wings' and a Foundation Degree, the graduates will be appointed to front line squadrons."


I know that Commander Ivor Milne, who is running the project, is now aiming for accreditation to Honours level, which he expects soon.

[Wader2]

As someone who already has a degree, do I get funded for a second by the MOD when I leave the military?

It will probably depend.

The Government has said it will (or has) stopped funding study at an equivalent standard. In other words if you have a BA you (or the university) will not be funded for a BSc. If you wnat to be fnded for a Masters then you would get funding.

For a service leaver I would imaging the same rules apply. You have a Masters so you can apply for a PhD etc.

[dogstar2]

A government funded smoke screen. In the press it looks like we are getting something. In fact most people will not take this up as it will come at an inconvenient time for most following a 6 year(or more) career. Result: the government has joe public thinking we are getting a great deal when in fact they will be spending very little. In essence they get away with something as they are not having to fund increased salaries or improvements in allowances, accommodation - the things which really need improving.

[mckelvey]

"Service personnel are to be given university education free of charge after they end their duty with the armed forces, it has been reported."

BBC News report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7503807.stm) - 12 Jul 08

Now, I wonder what the catch will be with this? If this is a new scheme and we loose nothing else in return, then it will be excellent.

However, call me Mr Cynical, but I wonder if this will replace the Enhanced Learning Credits (ELC) scheme (http://www.enhancedlearningcredits.com/mssql/index.html) that already allows most of us up to £6000 worth of training spread over 3 years, for up to 10 years after we have left the Service?

The really good thing about the ELC scheme is that it allows training by providers such as flying training schools, so you can use it to help get civilian licences etc. I certainly wouldn't like to see us loose that opportunity and have it replaced by a university course.


Quote:
BBC News report:-

"According to the News of the World, personnel who complete six years service in the Army, Royal Navy or RAF will qualify for the scheme."
.
.
"Currently those serving in the armed forces can have tuition fees fully or partially paid for certain courses, but the incentives are based around retaining personnel. This new package can be taken even after they have left the service."
Big deal!! The ELC scheme can be used for up to 10 years after you've left the service and by people who have only served for 4 years! Do I detect the spin machine already at work to justify the loss of the ELC scheme?

LFFC,

You might want to consider the offer and start with "English Language" (ie: spelling).

Sorry, couldn't resist it.


McK

[LFFC]

Sorry Mckelvey, but I'll worry about my English when staff officers start worrying about their analysis!

Besides, I'm using my ELCs for far more useful things. I submitted this year's ELC today because I don't like these rumours of funding being stopped for training of an equivalent or lower standard. As I already have a degree, I don't want to miss out on funding for my bridging course!

[etviking]

wouldn't it be better if you could do the degree while you are working and then get out and therefore set yourself up for civilian life better. who can afford a 3 year break while the cost of everything is rising.

[sussex2]

No govenment anywhere has properly looked after its ex military, or indeed military, when it isn't in their own interests.
Elizabeth 1st left her sailors rotting on the dockside in Wapping once they had served their purpose.
The armed forces have always been political and that is something you have to come to terms with if you join one.

[glad rag]

So it's not meant for your SAC then?

[spheroid]

Why don't you? Many people study for a degree whilst serving. Or, as previously mentioned, if you complete flying training then you get a degree from that