RIAT - Sunday cancelled.

[TOPBUNKER]

Err, that's it.
Shame...

[Alber Ratman]

Are they still having the Hangar party?

[Grimweasel]

Well, what an unmitigated disaster. The met is supposed to be fine tomorrow as well. Have they not got contingency car parks on hardstandings on site and in the local area??
There will be a lot of hacked off punters that may not ever buy a ticket again. It takes years to wipe this sort of thing from the memory; they may suffer to come back from this??

[batman3]

They really should consider letting people on foot/campers into the show - just making clear the carparks are shut. Just seems a shame for the Brazilians and the raptors who have travelled along way to be the stars of the show!
I bet DBH are gutted right now....

from an email they sent me (includes monday departure day details)

The organisers of the Royal International Air Tattoo have announced that
the airshow on Sunday, 13 July will not go ahead.

Despite a huge effort by everyone involved to improve conditions of the
waterlogged car parks, it became clear by mid afternoon today (July 12)
that significant areas of the fields remained unusable.

Air Tattoo staff and volunteers have been working around the clock to
try and improve the conditions on the airfield and in the car parks but
have unfortunately run out of time.

Please do not travel to RAF Fairford tomorrow. For those seeking a
refund please see the details below. These cannot be obtained from the
base itself.

We appreciate that many people will be desperately disappointed but rest
assured we have done our utmost to try and ensure the show continued but
the safety of the public is paramount.

We would like to take the opportunity to thank those who had been
planning to attend the airshow, for the cooperation and understanding.

Questions and Answers:

What is the refund policy?
Please view our website Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises (http://www.airtattoo.com) for details of our refund
policy. Those with Saturday tickets will be refunded but this will
take at least eight weeks due to the volume involved. Enquiries should
be directed to [email protected] (http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected])

To obtain your refund please send the actual tickets with attached
stubs, together with your name, address, phone number, email address and
a note of where they were purchased to:

RIAT Refunds
The Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises
Douglas Bader House
Horcott Hill
Fairford
Gloucestershire
GL7 4RB
UK

Will there be any refunds for additional costs incurred?
Unfortunately we are unable to cover any additional costs you have
incurred. A full refund will only be given for the cost of the tickets
and handling fee if applicable.

Will Park and View be open on Monday?
This will be reviewed tomorrow (Sunday 13 July) and is dependant on a
significant improvement to the designated car park. Please see
Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises (http://www.airtattoo.com) for details.

[canard68]

Shame it was flyable today but obviously the carpark problem was not fixable,this means that RIAT needs a dry week for the show to take place in future or find a car park with a hard surface,Little Rissington?

[Stratofreighter]

Now that both showdays have been called off, is it still possible to attend departure day next Monday?? http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/images/smilies/confused.gif
No word on this in the press release...

[Vulcan 903]

XH558 is now at Farnborough. She is due to display Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday of Farnborough week.

[TOPBUNKER]

Let's hope that the organizers look after those who now have to wade through the mud taking it all down for bugger-all reward.

I'm particularly referring to the youngsters who all too frequently have missed being fed and watered in the past - while the 'grown-ups' in (and sometimes out of!) 'grow-bags'are in the p!$$ up!!!

[rafmatt]

A bit of a kick in the balls really.
got free tickets for tommorow and now the only thing im going to see is two weeks of tent and marquee dismantling in the mud hoorah.

I hate the good old british summer!!!!!

[CHINOOKER]

Just spoke on the phone with a friend who was supposed to run his aviation bookstall at Riat on both days....He's pretty pi##ed off right now...had travelled down from Manchester with a van load of stuff....has sold absolutely zilch and now getting ready to go home!! He mentioned that it was not so much a question of car parking being a problem in canx sunday,but more of a problem with the events "insurers",(or those involved in such matters),who thought the risk to spectators from "slip and fall" related accidents too risky!!
As for monday departures,he has said that several crews he has spoken to today,are now requesting sunday departures for home,so there may not be too much to see on monday if they get the go ahead.

[FJJP]

It's a crying shame that the w/e has been washed out, especially for the hundreds of volunteers who have given up so much of their free time to make it happen. And then there are the funds for the RAFBF charitable works...

Sounds like an order for PSP might be a great idea for the future.

[Guzlin Adnams]

Me thinks I might be leaving earlier than usual for Duxford tommorow....

[goneeast]

What shame, I am ex BBMF and know how much some people look forward to these shows. Im sure the decision wasnt taken lightly.

[Stratofreighter]

Just managed to get through to RIAT by phone. Park and View for departure day next Monday has NOT been called off (yet)... :rolleyes:

[splitbrain]

"Slip and fall related injuries" :*

Well done everyone who has been tempted into make pathetic, fatuous claims for personal injury when you really should just have taken more care yourself. (Exasperated statement addressed to the wider audience).
Well done AmbulanceChasers4U for creating a greedy, quick buck compensation culture.
Well done all the insurers and courts who don't have the spine to tell claimants making claims that are largely a result of their own stupidity or inattention to :mad: off.

[CHINOOKER]

Just as an aside to this weekends RIAT "fiasco"...i wonder how long it will be before the climate change brigade come out with a "you reap what you sow" type statement......You know it's all you people flying in aeroplanes kicking out tons of carbon gasses thats caused this unseasonal weather!!!!
Any bets on such an article in tomorrows papers??

[goudie]

Not wishing to be wise after the event but............. knowing that the parking area is susceptible to heavy rainfall (not unknown during the British Summer) Pressed Steel Planking aka PSP might have saved the day.

[Rafair7643]

Apparently (according to radio) the tried PSP, but the vehicles carrying it could not get into the fields, due to the conditions.

Stew

[Alber Ratman]

Car parks are not on the base due to security of a USAF airbase (post 9/11) that is lent to RIAT =

Car parks have to use surrounding fields as loaned / supplied by local farmers / Landowners (Who may charge for the use??) and happens to be on the same flood plain as the Thames =

Unpaved land that with the addition of "ONE MONTHS RAIN IN 72 HOURS" + the churning action of wheels / feet = Quagmire!!:ok:

So thats the reason. Simple really!!:ugh::ugh:

PSP.. From who and who was going to lay the amount required to support 25,000+ cars in a day??

[goudie]

I based my question re. PSP on the fact that RIAT, having held this show for some 38 years, would have come up with a solution by now. Relying on farmers fields to park 1000s of vehicles is a bit chancy and so it has proved.

[RAF_Techie101]

Unpaved land that with the addition of "ONE MONTHS RAIN IN 72 HOURS" + the churning action of wheels / feet = Quagmire!!

Giggedy giggedy...

[forget]

Pressed Steel Planking aka PSP :bored:

Don't call stores with your order - I keep telling you - it's Pierced Steel Plank (PSP)

[Alber Ratman]

Noticed that UKAR (AKA Spotters central) has crashed as well!!

[goudie]

[QUOTE]
it's Pierced Steel Plank
[/QUOTE
Of course you're right Forget, most remiss of me

[SilsoeSid]

:{

Royal International Air Tattoo

Another National Disgrace?
Put yourself on a pedestal and what do you expect. :D

I'm sure that last year there was loads of tarmac we we able to walk on and stands on which to sit. Must have gone green :rolleyes:


Well, at least we havethe Olympics to look forward to and be proud of! :eek:

[Rafair7643]

Are some of you folks for real???????????

It's an outdoor event in the United Kingdom for gawds sake.

What do you expect????????

Oh yes, I see, you expect the entire might of the United States and Royal Air Forces, to drop everything they're doing, ship in tons of psp and the necessary personnel to lay it.

Just so you can enjoy an airshow?

Get a grip!

Edit: One more thing for all those talking about "disgrace" and RIAT F*ck-ups..................count yourselves lucky that RIAT has played the fair card and is willing to refund your money. They do not have to!

This from RIAT "terms and conditions";

"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"

"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"

Stew

[SRENNAPS]

Rafair 7643 Well said.

Some of the comments here have just astounded me.


“Contingency car parks”

are you having a laugh, this is not a small village fete with parking for a few dozen vehicles.



“having held this show for some 38 years, would have come up with a solution by now”

It has never been cancelled before, why would they have a solution to a massive problem that has never occurred before.

What planet are some of you people on. If some of you are so called intelligent offices you embarrass the Royal Air Force.


Just feel sorry for all the people that have put their hearts and soles into trying to organise an event the size of this only to see it washed away by nature.

[Alber Ratman]

Spot on RAFAIR!:ok:

A lot of people that use this forum are not military!!

[taxydual]

My only hope is that the loss of income to the Service Charities doesn't curtail the excellent service that they provide.

I better buy some more Raffle Tickets I suppose.

[goudie]

Also from RAFAIR .


Apparently (according to radio) they tried PSP, but the vehicles carrying it could not get into the fields, due to the conditions.


So, PSP was in the contingency plan!

why would they have a solution to a massive problem that has never occurred before

Because sh*t happens

[gayford]

I just feel so sorry for all the Organisers, Participants, Volunteers etc, all their hard work for nothing and THEN to have to put up with all the hassle that is being hurled their way. The only guilty party is the British Weather!!!

[serf]

There is no such thing as bad weather, only wrong clothing.

[tonyosborne]

Tell that to the residents of New Orleans, or even Gloucestershire and Worcestershire last year...

[CHINOOKER]

Having looked at the long range forecast for next week,it looks like it is going to be reasonably fine and dry in the south!. Sods law then that the bigger and more important of the two shows had to suffer so badly!. Having been a long term Riat attendee i,ve got used to being "cooked to a cinder" on previous occassions and yet somehow always expected rain at Farnborough,especially when it used to be in Sept. Perhaps now having the two shows planned for consecutive weeks is not the best idea!

[Rafair7643]

So, PSP was in the contingency plan!

I think it was more a reaction to the events rather than a contingency. In any case there is no way they could PSP each and every field.

Cheers

Stew

[Grimweasel]

SRENNAPS

Contingency car parks are not that far fetched. How about using hardstandings in the area and having shuttle buses. Knowing far well how bad the UK Met is (Bocastle/Glasto/Floods) you would have thought that there may have been a plan 'c'?? Such a shame that so much effort will result in a huge loss of money for all invloved. I suppose u could call this RIAT's ' Black Swan' event??

[Al R]

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, isn't the whole point of contingency planning er, anticipating the worse happening? Were there measures in place and were they inadequate or were no measures in place at all? Taken in context, these arrangements and timely announcements (or, lack of them) and the handling of the decision not to allow tickets on Saturday will only increase the perception that the organisers have got lazy and are out of touch.

The campers and traders anticipate bad weather, and so too, will arrangements for the corporate bigwigs have catered for the possibility of rain. But if something as obvious as car parking for the masses was not even considered, or considered and catered for badly, then its a big shame. Kemble is 20 minutes away, could that not have been considered and a shuttle service used? And look at Silverstone - do organisers not watch the news?

The Fairford farmers get a great deal out this event, year after year. But if they're to continue making a decent turn, they need to be able to play their part too and offer psp or some similar contingency (which might present a cost implication). Dispersing car parking would prevent fouling as would using local hard standings. Its a pity that something as glittering as this fell foul to something as obvious as the British weather, but hey ho - roll on 2009.

[November4]

1987 was a tad wet as well but that still went ahead. Flying display was curtailed IIRC but as I couldn't get out of the tent that our Sqn display was in due to the crush of people sheltering from the rain.....

But suppose that was when parking was allowed in site

[AIDU]

had travelled down from Manchester with a van load of stuff....has sold absolutely zilch and now getting ready to go home!!

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/drunk-irish-048.gif

Oh Al if only the RIAT organisers had listened to an ex rockape then all of this could have been avoided.:rolleyes:

[Rafair7643]

The problem, as I said on another thread (I think) is that whether you PSP or not, you will still have mud being transferred onto the public road.

Not sure about English Law, but in Scotland that can lead to a charge under the Roads (Scotland) Act against the organisers (in the event of an accident).

Now I have never been down to Fairford, however from what I hear, the road infrastructure is pretty much swamped by RIAT crowds, even in good weather.

Many folks look at RIAT involving staff etc in or on the boundary of the venue. Unfortunately, Policing such an event extends some distance from the venue. With this years deluge (again whether using PSP or not) the delays in exiting from car parks would be compounded.

Such delays are, to the spectator, an embuggerance to say the least. From a Policing standpoint, it becomes a nightmare, and an expensive one. You've suddenly got officers on extended duty and the costs of that will eventually be bourne by the organisers, or if you like, the Charity.

Another point worth considering. At the moment the spectators roll up and park in fields, and I'm sure that they're are plenty of signs advising that they do so "at their own risk". However, the minute you PSP the entire field or part thereof, you can no longer dump the responsibility on the spectator. You (as an organiser) have provided a surface for them to drive/park on and you are liable for any damage which results from the surface you have provided.

Folks, I can understand the frustration you feel..............been there, seen it and bought the T Shirt. There is however, little point in lambasting RIAT or asking for hardstandings etc. Fairford is first and foremost an active base, the surrounding area is not built to cater for 100,000.......but by luck they somehow manage. You can have in place all contingency plans you can think of, and still be caught out.

As I said before, just be thankful that RIAT are not holding you all to the conditions of sale..............they're giving you all a refund, rather than sitting back and pointing at the small print.

Cheers

Stew

btw I'm not military - ex RAF/VR and as you might have guessed a retired cop, who spent a lot of time standing in the p*ssing rain at such events! :)

[PaperTiger]

the handling of the decision not to allow tickets on SaturdayThe last-minute change about Sat. gate tickets was likely made because that day's cancellation was looking ever more probable.

[Al R]

Rafair,

Speaking as a biker, would it be too much then, to expect plod to get a grip of the local farmers round these 'ere parts 24/7? The mud that they leave lying around is a shocker and I see nothing wrong in a RIAT service provider being held legally responsible for the hardened surface he is contractually obliged to lay if the original one isn't acceptable (to do otherwise smacks of gashness - I'm sure there's a better word, but its early). I know its the done thing to cite 'safety' as the 'explain nothing, justify nothing' all transcending reason behind everything these days, but if that means that the organisers have to ensure that cars being transferred back to the roads are in a roadworthy state, then so be it - whats wrong with that? Get some power washes or whatever in, thats not my job and I expect it to have been catered for. Its one thing being laudable enough to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity, but its another thing doing it with an origami business model that is as robust and soluble as the parking arrangements.

The other event this weekend has been the Festival of Greed, down at Goodwood. I've done about 10 now and thought I would give it a miss this year and do RIAT but just compare the PPruNe Fairford experience with the Pistonheads Goodwood one, below. As a former trader there, and a committed attendee, I know that 'the bloody weather' underpins everything and if a landed toff can get his life sorted out, and swing into action a plan as far back as Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, why can't RIAT which one presumes, bristles with ex military types anyway?

I know its not the end of the world - I haven't lost a great deal and you've got to put 'disasters' like this into context when considering that its a military based event anyway and what the airmen it represents are doing 24/7 on our's and the troops behalf (and other horrendous happenings going on about the world at the moment). I simply lucked out and went for the wrong option (you can't crack me, I'm a rubber duck), sh#t happens and I did save myself a fortune in fat boy burgers. But the public expects and deserves better these days though, and certainly from a blue chip event such as this. Thats what annoys me - that we are catered for so badly by those in whom we place faith.. we get let down by politicians, utility companies, banks.. you name it. Hang on, I'll have a grumpy old man coffee and the world won't seem so bad. http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/biglaugh.gif

Pistonheads and BBC video stuff:

Bit worried about the state of the Ground (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=557272&nmt=Bit%20worried%20about%20the%20state%20of%20the%20Ground)

BBC NEWS | UK | Fairford air show a washout (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7503772.stm)

PS: I wonder if those who were responsible for the initial move into Ploče might have anything to add..? ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Besides the possibily insured losses on entrance tickets the probably uninsured losses will include those who travelled from overseas, the punters who arrived the day before and stayed in hotel or b&b

The hangers on who run all the trade stores.

The corporations in the hospitality tents, unless they were insured too.

[andy-g.johnson]

Some thoughts:

(a) RIAT does not appear to have a contingency plan for rain affecting car parks.
(b) A decent contingency plan would have seen 3 or 4 remote park & ride sites (other replies have suggested Kemble as one ....)
(c) Last year in July it rained so much that many towns in the area flooded - see BBC NEWS | In Pictures | Your pictures: Gloucestershire flooding (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6909754.stm)
(d) Last Wednesday there was a months rain in one day
(e) There is a trend in July UK weather !
(f) I imagine that the Queen thing on Friday and its 5000 visitors created a lot of the mud
(g) The RIAT organisers therefore appear to have missed out a major risk to the event, appear to have no contingency for this risk and appear to have done too little since the heavy rain of Wednesday
(h) Its Sunday morning now and sunny in Bristol ...

[StopStart]

I can't believe people are still chuntering about this.

Whilst I'm quite sure all you armchair logisticians could happily organise one of the world's biggest airshows please spare a thought for those clearly less gifted souls that actually thought they'd have a crack at it. Comparisons with the Festival of Speed or another show, fete or fair are irrelevant. Put the FoS at Fairford, rain on it as per last week and then let your "landed toff" sort it out :rolleyes:

Uninsured losses? Tough. The traders all went with a view to make a pile of cash. Hospitality? Do me a favour. People need to accept that sh*t happens - someone else isn't always to blame and sometimes you just need to take these things on the chin and get on with it.

:zzz:

[Mr C Hinecap]

StopStart. Have you no compassion? No heart? No soul? It is obvious - The Daily Mail isn't published today, so all the moaning armchair experts have to be 'disgusted' and 'ashamed' somewhere - the miserable gets have just chosen here. :{

[Al R]

Stopstart,

After 38 years, if there are less gifted souls still doing it, they perhaps should either move over or stop delivering promises they can't keep? The "..aw, bless - its just a bunch of enthusiasts having a crack" won't wash (ahem) anymore if you want your product to be known as 'Royal' and the premier event. This isn't rocket science, this is simply a matter of caring for your customers and conducting business effectively in a midern age.

My point about FoS is that the rain contingency was catered for as far back as a week ago today, and measures were taken to mitigate matters. Sure, I'm dissapointed but I have put it in context and if this was my event, then yes.. I would have done things differently. Hey, I have the benefit of a soapbox from which to be holier than thou, but I have been involved with organising some top end automotive events which have the default setting of assuming that its going to pour down, and they extract back from that basis.

I have worked with companies which communicate with a show's ticket buyers via something as simple as SMS in the weeks preceding events and almost daily in the run up, highlighting snags, tips and confirming for instance, routes in. Something as simple as that via SMS makes life so much easier on the day and is dirt cheap to achieve. Not only is it a great marketing tool but it makes things better, and you get the sense of being a part of a great event, and not being there just as a one man revenue stream is enhanced. This is easy to do - this has nothing to do with being so uncouth as to snipe at glorious failing English amatuers and hell, what should we expect for our £130 anyway?!

So yes.. although I know that sh#t happens, and work these days doesn't allow it, I am as moist as the carparks at the prospect of having a crack at this one.

Still smiling. :ok:

[BEagle]

The availability of hard surfaced car parks at Fairford is virtually zero now that Uncle Spam treats everyone as a potential terrorist.

However, even if there had been sufficient hard surfaced car parks, the aerodrome grass areas would have become swamp-like in a very short time indeed by the little aluminium stepladder folk trudging hither and thither.

And anyone proposing that 'they' should have used PSP (or PAP) in the grass car parks obviously has no idea of the level of metal theft rife in this area.... You would have needed every car park to have been guarded 24/7 to prevent any such theft.

[SilsoeSid]

Rafair7643 One more thing for all those talking about "disgrace" and RIAT F*ck-ups..................count yourselves lucky that RIAT has played the fair card and is willing to refund your money. They do not have to!

This from RIAT "terms and conditions";

"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"

"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"

Stew

With the forecast good and a late call, I would like to see the defence against a claim when the weather is;

EGVA 130750Z 09002KT 9999 FEW025 SCT050 15/09 Q1015 BLU NOSIG
EGVA 130800Z 130918 27006KT 9999 FEW030

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/silsoesid/215sunday13Jul08.gif

....and to think other events go ahead and made good publicity about the mud, without having loads of tarmac for punters to walk on once they get in.

As for mud on the road, aren't there any road sweepers down those parts, or perhaps a drive through wheel wash could be set up, like back in the days not too distant past of foot and mouth etc!!


All cancelled because of a muddy car park M'Lawd :hmm:

[BEagle]

Be careful!

Not only does that image has a Crown Copyright, but the Met Office Aviation website states:

The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.

:=

[Al R]

Beagle,

Objectively, there's no point in generating hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity if you don't want to spend an extra 30k on security for wriggly tin. Every show has massive sy budgets, it has to be built in, and I am sure it is with RIAT too. If people did have to walk in mud (I am sure it could be mitigated), then so be it - the campers were happy enough and I'm sure the hardcore people who attend a show like this on a daily basis would understand.. 1940/Glastonbury anyone?

Trying to be positive, it could simply be that Fairford is not suitable?

[MrBernoulli]

And there was me thinking that a huge chunk of the proceeds of RIAT were reserved for the 'chosen few' of the RAF Benevolent Fund to swan about Fairford in big, air-conditioned cars ................... :rolleyes:

[Mr C Hinecap]

This thread further emphasises the utter ignorance many people have of the issues that support flying away from the cockpit. It isn't a 'muddy car park' or 'put some PSP down'. You are just displaying attitude that comes from you thinking the Exercises always started at D+21 when the aircraft landed - ie when you pitched up. Get over yourselves.

[Al R]

Mr Hinecap makes a good point - contingency planning starts months before. :ok:

[robin]

Be careful!

Not only does that image has a Crown Copyright, but the Met Office Aviation website states:

The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.



Interesting - tell that to my club who printed off a Form 215 yesterdayfor my trip......:)

[petermcleland]

I borrowed someone elses pictures but I post them here in the hope that it will discourage complaining posts:-

http://www.petermcleland.com/misc/riat1.jpg

http://www.petermcleland.com/misc/riat2.jpg

http://www.petermcleland.com/misc/riat3.jpg

[Gainesy]

FFS its only an airshow, get over it.

[Dan Gerous]

One more thing for all those talking about "disgrace" and RIAT F*ck-ups..................count yourselves lucky that RIAT has played the fair card and is willing to refund your money. They do not have to!

This from RIAT "terms and conditions";

"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"

"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"

Stew

They wouldn't dare invoke that clause.

[Al R]

Peter,

Instead of protecting these stout hearted chaps who give up so much of their free time doing this show, your shots would only infuriate me more. Why on earth were things allowed to get like that?

To Gainesy.. 'Its only an airshow' fine. Yes it is only an airshow, and as I said, I put it into context earlier and its not the B all and end all. But I assume you're not speaking for the 170,000 who paid for tickets or who travelled hundreds of miles or from overseas to get there? I'll assume too, that you're not one of the hundreds of traders who rely on the event to generate the lion's share of annual revenue? Whilst I'm on the subject, I'll also assume that you're not in business and subject to the commercial grind of having to provide ever better levels of service to the punter in order to keep their business, year in and year out? Tell me - did you ever work for BL in the 1970s, responsible for washer motors in Morris Marinas? It sounds as if you have the right approach. :ok:

Out of sad curiosity, I looked at the books. The whole shooting match generates £7 million a year and made a post tax profit that was up by 50% or so year on year, AND after donating 320k to the RAF CT. The important thing that you have forgotten Gainsey, when you say 'its just an airshow' is that its much more than that. There will be a significant impact on the work that they are tasked with doing. Forget my £x hundred - I won't even be bothering with getting a refund, instead - think about thise who will be relying on grants that now won't be forthcoming, and all for the sake of a decent wet weather plan? Again, why wasn't Kemble used as hard standing car parking? For instance. It would be easy to have that padded into things.. Action of fields being unsuitable: Contact Kemble, use hard standing there and arrange for buses to provide fleeting transportation. I remmeber in the 1970's, the Motor Show at the NEC used the as yet uncompleted M42 because its car parking was knackered. There's always a Plan B.

I am not interested in having a go at the organisers - my interest and bemusement is professional. This might be as much as anything, a case of missmanaging expectation and the circumstances might have been beyond their control, and how that was communicated. No, not God providing the rain, but slipping into a habit of 'If it ain't broken, don't fix it' and using the 'same old same old' fields which have surfaces which can no longer absorb the intensity of attention, whether it be through farming or lack of drainage or simply someone looking at the checklist and thinking 'Righto - car parking, same as last year - yyyup, skies clear, field still there - tick'. But the pathology of examining 'why' and doing something that they have never had to do before will improve things for them. The business of changing Saturday to ticket only at short notice will only compound their malaise.

I genuinely, find this failure interesting from an organisational and opetrational view and even though I lost out, I'm not that annoyed to be perfectly honest - my heart goes out to the team who will be feeling absolutely gutted. I hope they realise that they were blindsided, but now what are they going to do, to prevent this happening again? It will be interesting to see what they come up with, and why it wasn't done this year. But I think too, that unless the constructive incentive from the public is there to address why this happened, its going to occur again. And I hope that I do not come across as baying for blood. Because I know that the event is top notch - RIAT has taken a bloody nose and one of those every once in a while isn't a bad thing.

http://www.airtattoo.com/Assets/Files/Trust/RAFCT%20R&As%202007.pdf

[SilsoeSid]

These photographs that show the muddy car park and flooded areas. All well and good but there are people there. :confused: Why wasn't that day called off, especially when it was forecast to be exceedingly bad weather?...Unlike today. H & S ...yea right! :suspect:


As for the Met Office copyright for the 215, that will mess up a few briefs in the mornings then!! Anyone been prosecuted yet?

The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.

All round the world, Met Men, Duty Crews, Flying Schools etc pass on the information from the Met Office Website. Walk into any club/flying set up and there it all is pinned up on the wall, or displayed on a computer monitor.

["Taylor"]

Park and view is still on for monday with tickets available on the gate. I'd guess that knowing the disappointment this weekend, the a/c leaving will put on a bit of a show, weather permitting. I gather a few a/c might have left today, but the F22's should still be there as their displaying at Farnborough tomorrow. Think i'll be taking a drive up. :cool:
Anyone any idea what time things will be kicking off?

[Rafair7643]

By Dan Gerous

They wouldn't dare invoke that clause.

And why ever not? You bought your tickets and that clause is clearly printed.............therefore in buying you agreed to that...........contract!

And before anyone starts talking about County Courts etc., just remember;

1) This is a Military Establishment, not a public venue.
2) Fairford is technically American soil

To be honest, having seen several forums where folks have been whining and moaning, and having a pop at RIAT, my view would be................."read the conditions of sale TSB (Tough sh*t baby)"

Cheers

Stew

[dallas]

Good post Al R, as usual. I especially agree with your suggestion of complacency from the organisers, while still sympathising with the incredibly awkward position they found themselves in as the week went on. And, as I posted earlier, still think pulling the 'on the day' tickets for Saturday was a short-sighted thing to do. I dare say RIAT is an incredibly big project to work on, but it's not that complicated at its basic level - especially stuff like the plan for ticket sales. Perhaps next year they'll ask themselves more 'what ifs' and a degree of humility won't do any harm.

Rafair7643, while the organisers might well be within their rights to refuse a refund, doing so would spell the end of RIAT, so I think they're wise to take a hit this year for the longer term good. You're right that a buyer would be subject to the printed terms and conditions, but seriously pissing off your entire customer base is suicidal. As for your argument that RIAT is a military establishment, correct so far, but by opening the base to the general public (as opposed to Friday's invitees), it becomes a public event. Moreover, while Fairford is on lease to the US, I understand it does not have embassy type status, and remains British soil, hence the RAF Fairford title. And even if that bit is wrong, RIAT Ltd (or whatever they call themselves) is a British company and therefore subject to British trading law, which would include being able to be taken to court.

[OmegaV6]

The organisers should have expected a month's rain in 72 hours ??? and planned for it ???... are you guys for real ???

Please folks .. look out of the window occassionally - and not the one Bill Gates invented - .. there's a REAL WORLD out there, with real problems and sometimes no sensible solutions. Fairford is part of the Cotswold Water Park area ... note the word WATER ... the water table is very high, and there was ABNORMAL rainfall... hence it flooded.. is that concept so difficult ??? I'll repeat it ..

Abnormal rain = flooded ground

A contingency plan can only cover a foreseen event ... 31 days rain in 3 was not foreseen ... ok .. make a plan in case it happens again .. but these folks are NOT clairvoyent ... apparently many of the writers here suffer with/are capable of 20/20 hindsight .......so easy that way isn't it ??

Having seen some of the work that was done to try and keep it going, I would like to say THANK YOU to those folks who worked long and hard, and still ended up with nothing to show for all their efforts... there were many of you .. and every single one deserves praise.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I dare say RIAT is an incredibly big project to work on, but it's not that complicated at its basic level - especially stuff like the plan for ticket sales. Perhaps next year they'll ask themselves more 'what ifs' and a degree of humility won't do any harm.

Strewth! You are obviously a logistical and contingency planning god and can produce the most detailed and far-reaching plans for every event from the top of your head. I am always humbled by such great thinkers who believe they can do better. In fact - why don't you jot down a few cheeky answers for them and we'll make sure it works in the event of a nuclear war? Have you even heard of '1 in 50 storms' or know how much effort it takes to lay something like matting/PSP?

[dallas]

I didn't say have a plan in place for everything, but at very least have considered the top 10 things that could stop the show. After 'major terrorist attack the day/week before', 'UK weather' should not have been much higher up the list, especially in view of the floods last year which had a major impact on local areas. Volcanos, locust swarms and alien invasion would have been really unforeseen - crap UK weather isn't gobsmacking.

I'll reiterate, I feel very sorry for the organisers and am certainly sat here with the benefit of hindsight, but to be perfectly frank, I would have considered all sorts of options if I was organising, just as I have done at lesser events that I've chaired. I'm not saying I could have done better, or that necessarily anything practical could have been done, but I'd have looked at it before last week.

[HalloweenJack]

Maybe its time to move the event to another, British, location? thats if , as im gleaming from posters in this thread , the USAF are no longer being as co-operative as they once were.

[SilsoeSid]

And why ever not? You bought your tickets and that clause is clearly printed.............therefore in buying you agreed to that...........contract!


No!...You don't get to read that bit until after the tickets are in your hand.

i.e. After you have handed over your money, you then find out that if it is cancelled you may lose it! :sad:

That, mon ami, is not right. :=

[speeddial]

RAFAir, RAF Fairford is not American soil, far from it, very far from it, hence MDPA not USAF perform perimeter security, hence protestors who break in have to be served with tea and biscuits and every aircraft which lands at RAF Fairford must have MOD approval.

[Norma Stitz]

Has anyone asked the question that with:

1. Ticket refunds (unless the legal eagles decide a clause on the back of the ticket can be invoked after all)

2. Presumed refund for exhibitiors who pay four figure sums for their pitches (I am guessing, so by all means enlighten us anyone who knows)

3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)

4. No show DVD to sell come autumn

...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?

[Rafair7643]

Speeddial:

RAFAir, RAF Fairford is not American soil, far from it, very far from it, hence MDPA not USAF perform perimeter security, hence protestors who break in have to be served with tea and biscuits and every aircraft which lands at RAF Fairford must have MOD approval

Aha, you missed out the word "technically" which I used when relating to RAF Fairford being US territory. (standard cop out :O)

Howsoever, I bow to your better knowledge regarding the status of the base.

Off to thrash myself for the error.

Stew

[Rafair7643]

SilsoeSid:

No!...You don't get to read that bit until after the tickets are in your hand.

i.e. After you have handed over your money, you then find out that if it is cancelled you may lose it!

Caveat Emptor dear boy, Caveat Emptor.

The onus is upon you, the purchaser, to be aware of the conditions (which are on their website) before you enter into the contract.

Cheers

Stew

[DON T]

Spoke to chap today who had tickets for yesterday purchased on the internet through Ticketmaster. He received an e mail yesterday from Ticketmaster syaing that he would receive a refund as the show was cancelled. The refund was made into his bank account last night.

[SilsoeSid]

The onus is upon you, the purchaser, to be aware of the conditions (which are on their website) before you enter into the contract.

So how does that work for those who don't go to the website, and buy from approved outlets?

Bit of a poor one that. Opens the doors for any seller of anything to open an obscure website of terms and conditions. When product is faulty, the purchaser is at fault for not reading the unknown and possibly inaccessible website t&c's. :ugh:

I don't think so!

Buyer beware may be quoted, (Caveat Emptor is posh talk for I have just ripped off the punter), but surely sales of goods must apply somewhere.

Something like the product not being fit for purpose!
Bit like buying a phonecard one evening and the next day BT deactivating all the cardphones.

[Rafair7643]

But being "fit for purpose" doesn't come into RIAT does it?

If they charged you money, let you in and then there were only static displays, perhaps you could make a case for it not being fit for purpose as an Air Display.

You mention "the product was faulty", but again that does not apply. There was nothing wrong with the product, just the weather, which no-one could have "reasonably" predicted.

If RIAT had decided to invoke their conditions of sale, yes they would have hacked off a lot of the punters, but they would have been well within their rights to do so.

Cheers

Stew

[dead_pan]

2. Presumed refund for exhibitiors who pay four figure sums for their pitches (I am guessing, so by all means enlighten us anyone who knows)

3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)

4. No show DVD to sell come autumn

...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?


2. Traders & exhibitors pay upwards of a couple of grand for their pitch depending on its size and location (RIAT is one of the more expensive shows to exhibit at in the UK on the basis that traders can mint it on a good day). T&Cs typically state that the organisers have no liability to refund pitch fees in the event of cancellation.

4. Was involved in the filming last year - found out they only sell a few thousand DVDs & RAFBFT's take is minimal.

The organisers certainly won't be able to afford any c*ck-ups or acts-of-God next year.

[suebob]

I was there on Fri and the ground was not just boggy. The 1-2 inches of surface water was flowing downhill in a mini river. IMHO the suggestion of having alternate car parks was only half the story. The stands, stalls and food outlets on the grass would also have been inaccessible to the vast majority of normal people (obviously Glastonbury diehards would have been in their element). As most of the stands have some kind of tented/vehicle based coverage to prevent damage by rain it would not have been practical to move them onto the handstandings (always assuming there wa room).

Even if there had been alternate car parking, i think there would still have been complaints about the lack of stalls etc; in short, the organisers were caught between a rock and a hard place by exceptional weather.

[MReyn24050]

Forgive me if this has been posted before:-
YouTube - RIAT floods 11/7/08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjuY5w1b8Yo)

[The Equivocator]

Instead of protecting these stout hearted chaps who give up so much of their free time doing this show, your shots would only infuriate me more. Why on earth were things allowed to get like that?

Big chap with a white beard, called for a hosing last week. Not much people can do about it. If you know anyone who can, you'd be very wealthy in Bangladesh.

Cretin.

And the other moron talking about ticket conditions needs to read ANY other ticket he buys to see what criteria are written on the back. That 'mon ami' is just not bright...:8