Another Flying Lancaster?

[ZH875]

That journal of all things fact or fiction, the Lincolnshire Echo (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156130&command=displayContent&sourceNode=242285&home=yes&more_nodeId1=156139&contentPK=21061640), is saying:


08:00 - 11 July 2008

The world's third airworthy Lancaster bomber could be up and flying within 15 months.

Brothers Fred and Harold Panton, of Spilsby, own an Avro Lancaster bomber NX611 and are planning to get it flying again after 37 years on the ground.

Called 'Just Jane', the Second World War bomber is kept at the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre in East Kirkby.

It will become the third airworthy Lancaster in the world and the second in Lincolnshire.

Out of 7,377 Lancasters built in the 1940s, PA474 - which makes up part of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight at RAF Coningsby and another in Canada are the only remaining airworthy Lancasters.

Fred Panton (77) said that after acquiring Just Jane in 1983 and painstakingly restoring her so that she can taxi around the East Kirkby airfield, getting her into the air again is their next challenge.

Mr Panton said that after further consultations with engineers, they would make a decision next month whether to go ahead with the plan.

"It will then take us 12 to 14 months to go through getting all the systems checked," he said.

Just Jane still has all four working Merlin engines but does not have a flight safety certificate.

For more on getting the Lancaster bomber airworthy, plus reaction from a veteran bomber navigator, see Friday's Lincolnshire Echo.

Could this be true?

[treadigraph]

Well, let's hope so!

[Agaricus bisporus]

While we're on the subject, what happened to the Lanc that had a hangar roof collapse on it some years ago? Is there any news of that one resurfacing?

[Lancasterman]

That would be the Ex Charles Church Lancaster KB976. Kermit weeks in Florida has most of KB976 and KB994 to one day restore it for dislpay. It is currently outside in containers.

[nacluv]

Is that the one in Florida? I know Kermit Weeks has a 1:1 scale Airfix kit to assemble when he gets a couple of hours to spare.

Well done to the Panton brothers if this gets the green light. Very interesting...

:D

Damn - beaten to it...

[ZH875]

That would be the Ex Charles Church Lancaster KB976. Kermit weeks in Florida has most of KB976 and KB994 to one day restore it for dislpay. It is currently outside in containers.


See Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/aviation-history-nostalgia/331567-lancaster-questions.html#post4186763) They are in Australia.

[Lancasterman]

Not all of it went to florida, the best parts went to florida with the remains going to australia with some parts going to Doncaster

[forget]

with lots of money and a lot of hard work she might be.

Lots of money, and the right sort of work, has already gone into the aircraft. The Pantons and their crews are no fools. I've always thought (hoped) that this was their ultimate goal -- with some very quiet 'assistance' from the BBMF. Good on 'em. :ok:

Just Jane will fly!

[Tiger_mate]

Their PR to date was that they would only consider flying her if the BBMF Lanc was grounded for fear of losing 'an' airworthy one.

I wish them the very best of British if they have changed their opinion. The cynic in me wonders if an up and coming film may be contributing to the airworthy restoration.

This of course raises the potential of seeing 3 airborne should the Canadian one cross the atlantic and that would be fantastic.

I am sure I saw Avro Lincoln remains at the Kermit Weeks airfield a few years ago.

[ZH875]

I am sure I saw Avro Lincoln remains at the Kermit Weeks airfield a few years ago.

The only remaining four Avro Lincoln B2's are:

RF398 at RAF Cosford
B-004 (Painted as B-010) in Argentina
B-016 at Villa Reynolds Military Air Base in Argentina
RF342 at Australian National Aviation Museum, Melbourne.

RF342 was G-APRJ, which has been owned by:

RAF
D NAPIER & SONS LTD LUTON 12-58;
COLLADGE OF AERONAUTICS, CRANFIELD 11-62/9-5-67;
SOUTHEND AIRPORT FLEW IN FOR MUSEUM 9-5-67;
S-H-A-M 72-83;
DOUG ARNOLD W-O-G-B BLACKBUSHE, HAMPSHIRE 10-5-83/10-9-86;
ACES HIGH NORTH WEALD 10-9-86/6-12-88;
CHARLES CHURCH MANCHESTER 10-9-88/8-90;
DOUG ARNOLD W-O-G-B BIGGIN HILL 8-90/15-2-91;
ACES HIGH NORTH WEALD 15-2-91/-;
STORED DISMANTALED OUT SIDE UP FOR SALE 95.
IMPERIAL AVIATION GROUP, NORTH COATES LINCOLNSHIRE 15-1-98
IMPERIAL AVIATION GROUP, SANDOFT, LINCOLNSHIRE 10-99/-
Was reported in a private yard in Doncaster, and is now in Melbourne.

[ZFT]

In the summer of 1967/8 (can’t recall which) I had the pleasure of being shown around a Lancaster at Blackpool Airport. I seem to recall it was all black.

Any idea which one this could have been?

[treadigraph]

ZFT, Just Jane was at Blackpool around that time.

[forget]

And scrutinised by the CAA right from the start I hope!

Why - is that a necessity?

[forget]

I see. And just how much involvement did the CAA have with these aircraft?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/bbmfsat800.jpg
(sunshine band)

[JEM60]

Probably none, seeing as how the BBMF are on the strength of the RAF and are therefore military, where'as the Panton Bros. aircraft is very much civilian, and subject therefore to CAA rules etc.

[forget]

Quite. :hmm:

[EGCA]

Is NX611, the East Kirkby Lanc, the one that was gate guardian at Scampton, or was it the one that I saw on its return to the UK when I was at the Biggin Hill Airshow in 1965. I recall a Lanc flew in after a marathon repatriation journey. It was in all-over white, and from memory was an ex French Navy maritime patrol aircraft that had been in use in the Far East.

Regards

EGCA

[SFCC]

Forget....you appear to be argueing against yourself old son.:ugh:

[treadigraph]

EGCA, same aeroplane as both Biggin in '65 and Scampton!

[forget]

....you appear to be argueing against yourself old son.

SFCC, Are you a politician by any chance? The assumptions from Mig15,and others, are that the Panton Lancaster is a civilian aircraft which would come under the CAA. Now, if the Panton Lanc were to be made 'flyable', rather than CAA legally 'airworthy', it doesn't take a huge imagination to conclude that the most sensible 'legal' operator would be the BBMF, with the Pantons.

[EGCA]

treadigraph:
Thanks, I must get some print from the colour slides I took at Biggin Hill in 1965 and let the East Kirkby people have copies.
Was a bit surprised that this is the same aircraft as the Scampton gate guardian, because I have a "family posed in front of" shot at Scampton gate with the Lancaster, and these photographs are dated 23rd August 1960. I accept of course that there could have been more than one gate guardian Lancaster at Scampton over time.

Regards

EGCA

[treadigraph]

EGCA, sorry, only time I have ever seen Just Jane she was on the gate at Scampton - that would have been in the 1980s.

Quick bit of belated research: Scampton + 1960 = R5868, now in the RAF Museum at Hendon.

Cheers

Treadders

[ZFT]

treadigraph,

Thanks. (I'd forgotten all about Blackpool until this thread reminded me)

[nacluv]

Slight thread drift possibly.

When I was a young space cadet in the 80's, we visited Scampton fairly frequently to go gliding in the old Sedbergh barges. I have 2 abiding memories of those trips, none of which involve Sedberghs. :p

Firstly, I recall our troop being driven over to the far hard standings to have a good look around a series of Vulcans (4 or 5) which were awaiting their fate with the scrap man. I well remember how heavy the crew door was when I 'accidentally' released the door catch...

Secondly, we had a look round the gate guard, which was of course the Lancaster. I recall it had red spinners? Also, I seem to recall that the crew entry door had a Yale lock on it, but the guardroom staff couldn't find the key for it, so we didn't get a look inside. Dammit.

Can anyone confirm whether these recollections of the Lancaster are accurate?

[EGCA]

treadigraph:

Cheers. I can now just make out an "8" at the end of the registration on the photo, so that checks out.

Good that it is under cover and well cared for now.

EGCA

[mystic_meg]

There is a booklet available that details the whole story of the Lanc's trip back to the UK, including spells at Blackpool, and ultimately ending up at Scampton. It is titled 'Story of a Lanc' and has been reprinted at least once. I will try and find an ISBN number later today. :ok:

[Captain Airclues]

Last year I went for a taxi ride in NX611. It was an amazing experience. As the engines were brought up to 2000rpm you where able to feel what it must have been like for those young airmen many years ago.
The museum at East Kirkby is one of the finest in the country. They have recreated a WW11 bomber airfield, with 'Just Jane' as the main attraction. Some of the museum staff had concerns about getting her flying as any serious incident could mean the closure of the museum if 'Just jane' was written off. This view was stated by one of the Panton brothers in the video that I bought at the museum.
Hundeds of people a year have the unique opportunity to ride inside a Lancaster and experience the emotion that four Merlins at close quaters brings. Would it not be better to keep it that way? I would feel differently if there were no airworthy Lancs, but it seems to me that we have the best of both worlds at the moment.
What do you think?

Dave

PS. Off for another NX611 taxi ride on 23/7 thanks to Mrs A's generous birthday present.

[rolling20]

I was luck enough to have a 'TAXI RIDE' a few years back. Chatting to the Brothers then , they ( as has already been stated here) were not going to put it back into the air. If it was 'lost' then it would be irreplacable.
I thoroughly agreed with that then! However if they are going to put it back 'in the air', I for one would support that decision.
I hope that it would be possible for 'fare paying passengers' to be able to get airborne in her. Should be able to get round the latest daft EU rules as its
not a passenger aircraft!

Lets hope...

[EGCA]

mystic meg:

The booklet title is "Story of a Lanc (NX611)" by Goulding B and others, first published in 1974, 32 pages card covers. Looks as though it does not have an ISBN.
Available in the secondhand market.

EGCA

[yakker]

A few years back when chatting to the Brothers, they told me they would need one million pounds to get the aircraft airworthy and they did not have the money.

A brilliant museum, a must visit for everyone.

[Pete T]

nacluv

Secondly, we had a look round the gate guard, which was of course the Lancaster. I recall it had red spinners? Also, I seem to recall that the crew entry door had a Yale lock on it, but the guardroom staff couldn't find the key for it, so we didn't get a look inside. Dammit.

Can anyone confirm whether these recollections of the Lancaster are accurate?

I was at Scampton in the '80s and your recollections are spot on, the crew door did have a yale lock on it, but the guard room staff didn't keep the key to it, that was kept safely locked away in SHQ

[nacluv]

Thanks Pete T for the confirmation - much appreciated.

The old synapses still have the correct firing order then! :ok:

[4mastacker]

Pete T wrote:


nacluv

Quote:
Secondly, we had a look round the gate guard, which was of course the Lancaster. I recall it had red spinners? Also, I seem to recall that the crew entry door had a Yale lock on it, but the guardroom staff couldn't find the key for it, so we didn't get a look inside. Dammit.

Can anyone confirm whether these recollections of the Lancaster are accurate?
I was at Scampton in the '80s and your recollections are spot on, the crew door did have a yale lock on it, but the guard room staff didn't keep the key to it, that was kept safely locked away in SHQ



You beat me to it. In fact, visitors could have a look round if they pre-booked with the station - but only at weekends IIRC. The key, with the names of the visitors was given to the Orderly Sgt. On one of my weekends when I was the "custodian", I had to escort some visitors - who all seemed to be TV personalities of one sort or another - who were visiting their "friends" in the Red Arrows(that's another story - NOTW stuff!). During a quiet moment, I took the opportunity to have a look round Just Jayne, and yes, she did have red spinners.

nacluv, I hope you didn't aquire any "souvenirs" off those Vulcans. They were a good source of spares (especially the air-to-air refuelling probes) for our colleagues over at Waddo during that little business down in the Falklands.

[tembo01]

It would be brilliant if there was another Lanc flying, but how are they going to cope with the insurance problem? That nearly grounded Sally B.
I suppose it is a question of money, if the Vulcan project succeeded I don't see why the Kirby Lanc couldn't. Incidentaly last year I visited an annex of the le Bourget Museum, they have a Lanc project there but unfortunately the project is advancing at a snails pace.

[mystic_meg]

mystic meg:

The booklet title is "Story of a Lanc (NX611)" by Goulding B and others, first published in 1974, 32 pages card covers. Looks as though it does not have an ISBN.
Available in the secondhand market.
Written by Brian Goulding, Mike Garbett and Sqn Ldr John Partridge RAF. No ISBN reference, :sad: but the latest(?) copy was produced by Melton Printers of Lincoln In 1991. Somewhere I also have an original copy (1974) that was available by mail order from one of the UK papers.
To quote from the inside back cover of the 1991 booklet:
Whilst it would (or should the word be WILL) cost a hefty sum, well into six figures, to get NX611 up and running again, this remains the underlying hope of all concerned. :ooh:

[henry crun]

All this talk of Lancasters stirred the memory of a Air Training Corp camp at Upwood in 1949.

This is the aircraft that I and another cadet had a ride in to Heligoland, we we only allowed to stay in the rear and mid-upper turrets.
My lasting memory ? very cold and noisy. :)



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/crun9/upwood491.jpg

[Lancasterman]

Apparently the brthers are looking into permission to extend the runway by 1000 feet. Hmm wouldnt it be great to see PA474 land there and one day they both do a stream take off?

[nacluv]

nacluv, I hope you didn't aquire any "souvenirs" off those Vulcans. They were a good source of spares (especially the air-to-air refuelling probes) for our colleagues over at Waddo during that little business down in the Falklands.

Being a stupid teenager at the time, I can't say hand on heart that the thought never cross my mind, however please rest assured that I did no such thing. I was sh1tt1ng myself enough as it was, having got the bloody door open and trying to get it pushed back shut again before our WO spotted me! I can't believe how heavy it was...

[4mastacker]

The possibility of NX611 returning to the air even made the local TV news last night. The young Mr Panton seemed very up-beat and optomistic that it could be achieved in about a year. I look forward to the day she flies again.

[goldhanger]

Here is the link to the TV interview
Central - Home - Welcome To ITV Local for the Midlands (http://www.itvlocal.com/central/?player=CEN_HomePage_15&void=212506)

[sisemen]

The original gate guardian at Scampton was, as has been pointed out, R5868 which was dismantled and trucked out to eventually be placed in the RAF museum. That aircraft was then replaced by NX611.

I was posted from Scampton in Feb 1974 so the changeover must have happened a couple of years previous to that.

[TigerTim99]

Is NX611, the East Kirkby Lanc, the one that was gate guardian at Scampton, or was it the one that I saw on its return to the UK when I was at the Biggin Hill Airshow in 1965. I recall a Lanc flew in after a marathon repatriation journey. It was in all-over white, and from memory was an ex French Navy maritime patrol aircraft that had been in use in the Far East.



Thanks for that recollection! I was learning to fly at Biggin in '65 when the Lanc was there, and I've often wondered which one it was. The Management one day required it to be moved, so we students had to help push it across the apron! Anybody got a pic of it there?

[andrewmcharlton]

I've got a Haynes Manual for the Lanc if that will help them get started....:ok:

[Fournierf5]

Great shot here from Flight magazine historic archive

FA_F65 26~02 (http://www.flightglobal.com/imagearchive/Image.aspx?GalleryName=Photo%20Archive/Post%20War&Image=FA_F65+26%7e02)

[India Four Two]

Story of a Lanc (NX611)

One used copy at abebooks.com

[irc1804]

Looks more like the photo was taken at Biggin, In front of the T2 hangar now used by Jet Aviation. not Lakenheath as stated at the foot of the photo

Anyone more knowledgeable than me, able to confirm the location ????

[Fournierf5]

it is Biggin Hill just in front of Surrey & Kent Flying club office and Dillows?? cafe just out picture. Flight will be changing the caption!!!

[forget]

The Just Jane guys are asking for opinions - from their web site.

Should we fly NX611?
Send us your opinion to- [email protected]

[Captain Airclues]

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/Airclues/DSC02147.jpg

[forget]

Capatin Airclues, I'll trump you with yesterday - the 30th. :)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/3.jpg

[Proplinerman]

As it's a double Bank Holiday weekend and as my wife is away until Sunday, I've spent most of today and yesterday finally scanning in my last remaining aircraft photos from the 1970s and 1980s. I knew I had it somewhere and today I found it-the negative of a photo I took of "Just Jane" in 1973 at Blackpool:

ScanImage 2e | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5671082968/in/photostream)

[PFR]

Proves she flew once - lets just hope she can fly again:ok:

[exgroundcrew]

Heard a familiar noise about 11:00hrs this morning (4 May) and looking up it looked like a black Lancaster heading towards Biggin Hill, no mention of flight on BBMF so was I mistaken or can anyone tell me what I saw?

[deltapapa]

According to the BBMF schedule she did Hyde Park then off to Holland

You can download the Excel spread sheet of the BBMF flying programme for the season here

Welcome to the BBMF - May 2011 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bbmf/displayinfo/may2011.cfm)

Edit just realised her flypast over London could well have been for the laying of the foundation stone for the BoB memorial

[Farns744]

Found a few images of G-ASXX at Biggin Hill 1965. Sorry about quality but Box Brownie was never that sharp.
http://img4014.photobox.co.uk/26988991f2e81155aabc8fc0b11dc2e135afbcd322c267f296950e71ed56 8cb5ac8f7ba6.jpg
View from cockpit. Remember climbing over mainspar to get there. Don't think the general public would be allowed to climb inside these days.
http://img4014.photobox.co.uk/662315092ea943edf597558a58ea7b7343ce7adbb79342d83a1ca3ac088c eff71e520d4c.jpg
Bomb aimer's view through the rain to IL18.
http://img4014.photobox.co.uk/36777542425c0bf618d39fb8a2587a9021f30f79cf04a4e642200f4f4a25 baaf57e1fa65.jpg
http://img4014.photobox.co.uk/22984150cc22a1eb8b0b2c895c3bb8dd885e8816d3c7673fe08be973ebb8 2e1bfeafd136.jpg

http://img4014.photobox.co.uk/07276885ee5519167692fe8a8bb34843dd8bb85042806340df469d7a0e97 725664eeed4f.jpg

http://img4014.photobox.co.uk/1330319526889df2bdb0830c0c802863b9e4dbb1ec7733b1e84550e817d3 b8f1407104c4.jpg
Hope they are of some interest.
Keith

[Proplinerman]

They certainly are of interest! Thanks for posting.

[Proplinerman]

Forgive me if I've posted links to these photos before, but here are two Lancasters other than NX611 and PA474 and the one in the RAF musuem, that I have photographed over the years.

Firstly, the one in Sir William Robertson's one time collection at Strathallan, in 1976:


JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-BCOH (CN: 277) Private Avro Lancaster by Michael Blank (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6089283&nseq=2)

And secondly, one at the Calgary Aerospace Museum:

646 Calgary 17-9-05 Lancaster FM136 (i) | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4488649511/)

When I showed the Calgary photo to an Air Britain audience some time ago, I said I thought the colour scheme might be some kind of maritime reconaissance one, but several people thought it was just some kind of primer. Can anyone here say for sure?

[Rollingthunder]

Dunno, but I do know this......ugly.

[forget]

Lancaster B X FM136
Manufactured in 1945 by Victory Aircraft Ltd., assigned to No. 20th and 30th Maintenance Units in England, never issued to active Squadron. Returned to Canada and converted to Maritime Reconnaissance. Taken on strength by No.404 ‘Buffalo’ (MP) Squadron (Greenwood, Nova Scotia) as RX-136. Transferred to No.407 ‘Demon’ (MP) Squadron (Comox, BC). Struck off strength April 1961. Lancaster FM136 was purchased from Crown Assets Disposal Corporation by Lynn Garrison, in 1961. He created The Lancaster Memorial Fund to see the aircraft displayed, in 1962, on a pedestal at McCall Field, Calgary, as a memorial to those who trained under the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan. It was subsequently moved to Aerospace Museum of Calgary in 1992.

Lancaster B X FM136 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77601153@N00/2897891449/)

Dunno, but I do know this......ugly. :confused::rolleyes:

[wayned]

Aero Space Museum of Calgary - Collection Details (http://www.asmac.ab.ca/aerospace/main_collection_details.asp?list_id=3)

Here's some info on the Calgary Lanc.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I also believed it was Biggin, and further posters agreed.

Looked at the Lanc on FI today, and it is still wrong caption.

glf many years parked in same spot on that grass.....

[goofer3]

Nearly there..... this was in 2006 with Mike Chatterton

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae294/goofer33/JustJane.jpg?t=1304676546

[forget]

Let's just hope that 'Vic***Pilot' isn't inclined to head into Bomber County. :hmm:

[Speedbird48]

Proplinerman,

The Grey paint on the Calgary machine was indeed a primer to help cover the thing up before too much corrosion set in.

I was there about a month ago and there was a guy and a girl sanding the thing down in the big plasit hangar, and they had unearthed two sets of fusleage codes on a Black scheme which was the same as WW2.

Speedbird48

[TheSpasticFlyer]

G-ASXX Flew into Blackpool in 1971:), I was in a Cherokee six G-AWCY that landed at Hullavington to pick up the Navigator. We trundled down south to deliver said Nav, and then SXX got airborn with Neil Williams at the controls. En route she did a Bomb run across Lake Bala in Wales, rear turret reported two sailing boats blown over on this pass! The aircraft belonged to Reflectair/Histoic Air Preservation Society. We ran the engines regularly at Blackpool, It was then purchased by Lord Roberts, it was dismantled, found it's way to Scampton, I remember the RAF "Chiefy" air tech saying that SXX was in better nick that their flying Lanc. The RAF one had been butchered several times in the Centre Fuse to house all kinds of experimental gear. I also remember SXX being in its White French Marine color, there are patches on the bomb doors where she took "incoming" when at Dien Ben Phu!.
Not a lot of people know that!;).