Yet Another RIAT F**k Up! [Archive]

Mr C Hinecap

10th Jul 2008, 15:46

From their website:

NO ON THE DAY SATURDAY TICKETS
Anyone planning to attend the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire on Saturday, July 12, must buy their tickets in advance.

Organisers announced today that tickets will not be on sale at the Fairford gates on Saturday, July 12.

However, tickets are still available for both Saturday and Sunday from Ticketmaster as well as from selected branches of Barclays Bank, Robert Dyas and a number of Tourist Information Centres.

Air Tattoo spokesman Richard Arquati said buoyant ticket sales prompted the decision.

“We want to make sure that everyone who plans to come on Saturday has the chance to buy a ticket, but it is important to make sure we are ready and able to cope with the traffic.

We introduced day-specific tickets this year for the first time in order that we could monitor ticket sales. It is as a result of this monitoring that the decision not to sell on-the-day tickets on Saturday has been taken.”

“Our advice is: if you want to come to the Air Tattoo, buy now or come on Sunday when tickets should also be on sale at the gate.”

NutLoose

10th Jul 2008, 16:02

Well they can always hot foot it over to Duxford for FLYING LEGENDS.

Better Aircraft, better show and a better day out............ Tickets are still available for both days and ONLY AT THE GATE........... additionally they will get to see 3 flying B17's together, one having flown over from the USA for the show.......... Now that's what I call an Airshow....

What's On at IWM Duxford? Full listing of air shows and events : Flying Legends Air Show (http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/server/show/conEvent.2128)

None of this climb in through the window and set fire to the arse end to get it off the ground rubbish:ok:........

Real aircraft with real engines and whirly bits on the front :D

Says it all really

List of Participating Aircraft (subject to change)
North American P-51 Mustangs
P-51D-20 Mustang 44-72216 – The Aerial Museum
P-51D-25 Mustang 44-72917 – Rob Davies
P-51D-25 Mustang 44-73149 – Old Flying Machine Company
P-51D-25 Mustang 44-73877 – Scandinavian Historic Flight
P-51D-30 Mustang 44-74427 – Christian Amara
TF-51D-25 Mustang 44-84847 – The Fighter Collection
Vickers-Supermarine Spitfires
Spitfire IA AR213 – Sheringham Aviation
Spitfire F VB BM597 – Historic Aircraft Collection
Spitfire F VB EP120 – The Fighter Collection
Spitfire F VIII MV154 – The Aerial Museum
Spitfire F IX MH434 – The Old Flying Machine Company
Spitfire F IXE PL344 – Historic Flying Ltd
Spitfire FR XIVE MV293 – The Fighter Collection
Spitfire F XIVE SM832 – Christophe Jacquard
Spitfire LF XVIE TD248 – Spitfire Ltd
Spitfire FR XVIII SM845 – Historic Flying Ltd
Spitfire F XVIII SM969 – The Fighter Collection
Seafire F XVII SX336 – Kennet Aviation
Hawker Hurricanes
Hurricane XII RCAF 5711 – Historic Aircraft Collection
Sea Hurricane IB Z7105 – The Shuttleworth Trust
Gloster Gladiators
Gladiator I L8032 – The Shuttleworth Trust
Gladiator II N5903 – The Fighter Collection
Grumman Cats
FM 2 Wildcat BuNo 86711 – The Fighter Collection
F6F-5K Hellcat BuNo 80141 – The Fighter Collection
F8F-2P Bearcat BuNo 121714 – The Fighter Collection
Curtiss Hawks
Hawk 75 No 82 – The Fighter Collection
P-40B Warhawk 41-13297 – The Fighter Collection
P-40N Warhawk 42-105915 – Christian Amara
Yak Fighters
Yak-3UA 0470107 – Chris Vogelgesang
Yak-9UM 0470406 – R Boschung
Hawker Nimrods
Nimrod I S1581 – The Fighter Collection
Nimrod II K3661 – Historic Aircraft Collection
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses
B-17G-85 Flying Fortress 44-8846 – Association Fortresse Toujours Volant en France
B-17G-105 Flying Fortress 44-85734 – The Liberty Foundation
B-17G-105 Flying Fortress 44-85784 – B-17 Preservation
Piper L-4 Grasshopper/Cub
L-4A Grasshopper 42-36375 – Frazerblades
J-3C-65 Cub G-RRSR – R Roberts
Douglas C-47/C-53 Skytrain/Dakota
C-53D 42-68823 (11750/LN-WND) – Foundation Dakota Norway
C-47A Dakota ZA947 – Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Other Participants
DH 84 Dragon I G-ECAN – Norman Aeroplane Trust
DH 89A Dragon Rapide G-AJGS – de Havilland Support
DH 90A Dragonfly G-AEDU – Norman Aeroplane Trust
Ju 52/3mg2e Wk-Nr 5489 – Lufthansa Traditionsflug
Bf 108 D-EBEI – Lufthansa Traditionsflug
FG-1D Corsair BuNo 88297 – The Fighter Collection
P-39Q Airacobra 42-19993 – The Fighter Collection
UC-43 Traveller BuNo 23689 – The Fighter Collection
B-25J-20 Mitchell 44-29507 – Duke of Brabant Air Force
Hind ‘K5414’ – The Shuttleworth Trust
Swordfish I W5856 – Royal Navy Historic Flight
A-26B Invader 44-34602 – Scandinavian Historic Flight
HA-1112-M1L Buchón C.4K-102 – Spitfire Ltd
FW 190 (static) – Spitfire Ltd
AD-4NA Skyraider BuNo 126933 – Kennet Aviation
Stearman Kaydet x 5 – Team Guinot
1-131E Jungman G-BSAJ – Pete Kynsey
Lockheed 12A Electra Junior 1287/F-AZLL – Bernard Chabbert
Thulin A/Blériot XI – Mikael Carlson

The Swinging Monkey

10th Jul 2008, 16:34

The crazy thing is this.....you can still buy tickets now! today, tonight, so it's NOT because they are full at all. They have just taken the decision to make the Saturday event Ticket Only for no good reason at all, as fare as I can see. Its an absolute bl$$dy farce.

How on earth can they possibly justify that?

On Saturday, there will be tens of thousands of people, who will have driven for hours who are going to pitch up for the show, unaware that they cannot purchase a ticket on the gate, and they are going to be turned away. Bizarre? Shamefull or what?

Come on RIAT - tell us why you have done this, the day before the show??

Chicken Leg

10th Jul 2008, 16:53

Seems perfectly sensible to me. If they hadn't done this and 10,000 extra people and thier cars turned up, what would you have then posted on here on Monday? How inept the organisation was or something........

dallas

10th Jul 2008, 16:59

It would have been sensible to plan this from the start, not withdraw 'on the day sales' at the 11th hour - I agree with other posters that this is a poorly thought out decision, irrespective of the rationale behind it.

ShyTorque

10th Jul 2008, 17:10

If they are concerned about road chaos, won't scores of cars having to drive away again, against the flow, make this into more of a problem? Especially as these cars will be driven by very disgruntled and pre-occupied would-have-been punters? :eek:

minigundiplomat

10th Jul 2008, 17:13

This is purely and simply a revenue management issue. This follows the same principles that lo cost airlines follow.

Ever tried to pick up a £19 Ryan Air seat on the day? It would be £300 or so(if possible at all).

Online booking costs the organisers nothing and even using a call centre is far cheaper than having large numbers of staff selling tickets on the day. Lower overheads, greater revenue.

To them, it is just a revenue stream with some planes.

barnstormer1968

10th Jul 2008, 17:17

Picked up my tickets at lunchtime today.
Although It seems sensible to not have unknown numbers on the day (to avoid me sitting in my car for ages in the approach roads, unable to see the display, whilst stuck in a traffic jam) It also strikes me that there may be a last minute surge to get a chance to see the Vulcan fly. Thus there will be DOUBLE the jams, with folks turning up, and then unable to get in, thus blocking the roads further trying to leave again!

Barnstormer1968

PS. It seems unlikely it's down to security, especially after my visit to Yeovilton air day last weekend, where there was none at all:}

Mine and ShyTorques posts seem to have crossed in the ether

The Swinging Monkey

10th Jul 2008, 17:26

ChickenLeg

The thing I don't get is that you can still go to the show on Saturday, all you have to do is purchase a ticket in advance! I wouldn't have a problem if they said no more attendees at all, but they aren't. They are just saying 'advance tickets only' What about those who do not have access to the internet? What about all those folk who will drive for hours to get to the show, only to be turned away? And as ShyTorque points out, what chaos is going to be caused when the police/organisers try to turn them away? Especially as they turn all of the local roads into a giant 'one-way' system.
It's going to be a disaster frankly.

Capt Pit Bull

10th Jul 2008, 17:30

Saturday forecast to be showery, Sunday forcast to be clear of rain.

Go figure.

Icare9

10th Jul 2008, 17:40

For what it's worth, the Notice states that tickets are available from TicketMaster, SELECTED branches of Barclays Bank (No clues as to which branches) and Robert Dyas.
The Store Locator for Robert Dyas shows they hav branches as below:-
NameStreetTownPostcodeTelephoneDistance1More details for SWINDON (http://www.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?client=rdyas&lon=-1.782730&lat=51.559960&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&rt=browse2&reclimit=1) 34 Regent StreetSwindonSN1 1JL017-9349-503610.19 miles2More details for WITNEY (http://www.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?client=rdyas&lon=-1.484720&lat=51.783680&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&rt=browse2&reclimit=1) 21-27 Market SquareWitneyOX28 6AD019-9377-813813.51 miles3More details for CHELTENHAM (http://www.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?client=rdyas&lon=-2.076720&lat=51.901910&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&rt=browse2&reclimit=1) Unit 2 206 High StreetCheltenhamGL50 3HF012-4257-025418.65 miles4More details for OXFORD (http://www.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?client=rdyas&lon=-1.259470&lat=51.752180&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&rt=browse2&reclimit=1) St. Michael's Hall Shoe LaneOxfordOX1 2DP018-6524-324322.31 miles5More details for CHIPPENHAM (http://www.multimap.com/clients/browse.cgi?client=rdyas&lon=-2.116890&lat=51.458450&scale=10000&width=500&height=300&rt=browse2&reclimit=1) 30 Borough Parade Shopping CentreChippenhamSN15 3WL012-4944-637622.63 miles

Now, there is no guarantee that these branches will have tickets, but perhaps there is a chance that people turning up on the day might be able to get to these stores (hopefully en route) or after arrival they may not need to drive all the way home....
Just a thought, it might save some kids day being ruined....

TEEEJ

10th Jul 2008, 17:40

It will cause havoc. I feel especially sorry for those families travelling hundreds of miles thinking that they can buy a ticket on the day. Really sad.

They usually have those large electronic road signs on the approaches to Fairford. Hopefully they will use some common sense and put up a running message ref the ticket situation?!

TJ

LookingNorth

10th Jul 2008, 17:57

Postman Plod

10th Jul 2008, 18:14

Nothing sensible about this at all, irrespective of the reasons (whatever they really are). Its too late now to start saying on a website that its now a ticket only event - not every prospective punter is going to be looking on the website this late in the day. Maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago may have allowed them to inform their audience!

So as has been said, those 10000 people who would have bought a ticket on the gate will probably still make an attempt at turning up, not knowing that they won't get in. Its not going to reduce any of the traffic, and will just alienate a whole group of people for any future air shows, who are probably already seriously disgruntled at the price of tickets.

Cock up of "Spirit of Adventure" proportions I'd suggest.

barnstormer1968

10th Jul 2008, 18:49

I've been thinking about this, and maybe there is another way to look at the situation

The air show can only hold a given amount of visitors.
So If 10,000 will be turned away, and if (as it now seems) many of you fellow Ppruner's will not attend through disgust, then I get to go to a fairly empty air show, with few traffic queues. The traders will be desperate to sell their food and goods cheap, as I will be the only one there.

Also, many of the aircraft will be open to visitors, so I will plonk myself in one of the Seakings and the raising flood waters won't be a problem either:E

All in all a good day out.

PS I have to see it like this as I already have the tickets, and they are non transferable.:mad:

Barnstormer1968

Dan Gerous

10th Jul 2008, 19:42

They may turn away people without tickets, but I believe that all the parking is off base now, and with one way traffic plans in operation, not only will you not get in, but you will most likely spend the best part of the day in an off base carpark (muddy field), until they reverse the traffic flow. Stopped going to Riat after the two shows at Cottesmore, I know it generates income for the RAFBF, but to me it seems like it is now a great big money grabbing exercise.

Seaking93

10th Jul 2008, 19:49

I hope no one goes to Duxford hoping to see the Swordfish as listed, it has not flown for several years, the current flyer LS326 made an emergency landing at Yeovilton today sounding very rough, I hope all is well and it makes it to Duxford for the show.

SRENNAPS

10th Jul 2008, 21:17

TSM or anyone else with a bold opinion

The thread starts with:

Yet Another RIAT F**k Up!

Could you tell me about previous “F**k Ups".

I have been to loads over the years and they have always been a total success.

I also know several volunteers that work their bollocks off to make it a total success. I am pretty sure that they would be quite offended by your comment.

As an aside:
I agree that this decision may go down pretty badly with anybody travelling 100’s miles to find they can’t get in, but I have no doubt that it is being made in the best interest of all. Apart from that if I was travelling I would check that all was ok before I set off.....especially in this day and age.

Pontius Navigator

10th Jul 2008, 21:38

Heard from a mate the airfield is one huge mud bath anyway with big areas of surface water still standing 24 hours after the rain stopped, and some areas getting worse by the minute as people walk or drive over them. Doesn't sound like a fun day out any more, will try Flying Legends at Duxford instead I think.

And I heard today that almost all the scheduled arrivals yesterday had to divert and that this was causing a huge headache trying to recover the flypro.

Now if you could just get punters to stump up in advance . . .

November4

10th Jul 2008, 22:02

In previous years....Got up on the day

Wet weather....gone back to bed - not out of pocket
Fine weather - wake family up and go to Fairford - RIAT gets my money

Now.....

Chucking it down on Sat - either drag MrsNov and the kids round getting soaked or loose money but that's OK because RIAT are better off..

Sod that money staying in my pocket this year

Wycombe

10th Jul 2008, 22:57

Whilst this does seem a dubious/late-in-the-day decision, some perspective is also required.

My recollection of entering the site last year was that nearly everyone (90% for sure) entering at the time I did had prepaid.

I clearly remember seeing a small half-size portacabin to the side of the main entrance, which was the place to buy "on the day" tickets, looking very quiet.

My strong suspicion is that accurate records are being kept of advance Saturday sales - and it is getting full (or as much as car parks that aren't under water can take).

I say this because when I bought my tickets in Barclays the other day, the cashier showed me the record she was having to fill out and submit to RIAT of tickets sold for each day.

Despite my observations from last year, I can see there might be some trouble over this :\ - good job there will no doubt be lots of heavily armed plod around.

Alber Ratman

10th Jul 2008, 23:43

And the reason for all of this??? I would think its six letters.

V U L C A N;)

Winco

11th Jul 2008, 06:38

SRENNAPS

Have you ever been to RIAT other than as a punter?
I can recall quite a few incidents of c**k ups at RIAT - most, if not all of them avoidable.
This decision is shameful, and will come back and bite them in years to come I fear. I suspect there will be a great many irrate and very upset people at the gates tomorrow - I hope there are plenty of police on hand!

scarecrow450

11th Jul 2008, 07:45

I've seen various ccok ups both as a punter and as worker from 90-95. Just too many to list like no accomodation for workers- oh we forgot about your lot and having the gate people accomdated off camp so one year they were stuck in traffic jams so could'nt get the gate opened !-doh !:ugh::ugh::ugh:

dallas

11th Jul 2008, 07:48

I suspect there will be a great many irrate and very upset people at the gates tomorrow - I hope there are plenty of police on hand!
The last thing you want is hardened spotters rioting - it won't be pretty...

Terry K Rumble

11th Jul 2008, 09:13

I'm sticking my neck out here but what the heck! Those of you that know me from Terrane, will know that I obviously have a vested interest in this thread, and I make no apologies for stating that when I was informed about this yesterday morning by one of my customers in Belgium, I immediately contacted RIAT to ask what was going on.

They refered me to the web site, stating that becuase there had been 'healthy' sales of advanced tickets for the Saturday, they had chosen to make it a ticket only affair. They were at pains to assure me that people could still come on the saturday; all they had to do was to buy a ticket in advance! I tried to explain that that just didn't make sense, but was told that they would NOT change their minds. They also said that as the word had gotten to a customer in Belgium, then the message was obviously getting round, which may well be true, however there are a great many people from overseas who will be coming either by ferry or flying in to the UK and will be unaware of the decision, possibly not finding out until Saturday morning, when they arrive at the gate. What do they do then?
Their parting shot was 'well, if you don't like it Mr rumble.......' Yes, OK, and thanks for being so understanding.

The whole affair seems to be completelty without logic to me. Either they are full, in which case I can understand the decision, Or, they are NOT full, which is why you can still purchase advance tickets I assume. If that is the case, why not let people come along and purchase their tickets on the day at the gate?

It is, without doubt, an unmitigated PR disaster for RIAT, and I suspect many traders will be just as irate as the punters over the matter.

Come on RIAT Organisers. You have published this event, arguably the biggest airshow in the world, for the past 12 months. Don't you feel a little ashamed at changing the goal posts at such a late stage, when a great many people will already be en-route to Fairford? It is an outrageous way to treat the public, the very life-blood that keeps you going and who give so much to the RAFBF. Please revert it back to how it was, and let everyone in on Saturday as well as Sunday. Thank you.

TKR

scarecrow450

11th Jul 2008, 10:06

Just goes to show they don't care about the punters or traders as long as they get the money to pay for big cars to ferry the bigwigs about.

There's a lot of people I know that are'nt going this year, I know that won't make a dent in the takings but its the principle. :mad::mad:

Thud_and_Blunder

11th Jul 2008, 11:05

SRENNAPS:

(R)IAT 'uck ups?

How about G-HUEY's shameful treatment?

airborne_artist

11th Jul 2008, 11:31

Wader2

11th Jul 2008, 11:48

Of course the simple solution would be to set up a phone-booking system that Saturday's punters could call en-route. The whole thing could be done on the keypad and then give them a ticket by SMS, which is linked to their car reg. Gate staff simply enter the car reg for authorisation.

In this day and age there really is no need for a physical ticket, and I predict that mass events like RIAT will go this way before long.

Good idea.

Prior planning prevents p1ss poor performance.

This is noting like prior planning so performance remains to be rated.

As Terry says, just because SOME people found out does not mean many people won't.

I would concede that if I was travelling a long distance then I would certainly have bought my tickets in advance. If I was local I would tend to suck it and see and only go if the weather was OK. It does seem like a 'push' to get advance sales in anticipation of poor weather. On Sunday, fair weather or not, it is the last day so punters who held off on Saturday, hoping for better weather, would have no choice but to brave the elements.

It looks like it will be the relative locals who have put up with the traffic, noise etc and who have waited to see about the weather who will be affected. As local radio will, inevitably, be broadcasting on Saturday that it is ticket only (they have arranged that , I hope) there should not be too many non-ticket holders turning up.

I would also guess that they WILL sell tickets at the gate but don't bank on it.:}

Toddington Ted

11th Jul 2008, 12:38

:ok: I'm definitely going to Duxford anyway! The aircraft are more my style (I know; old, slow and noisy before anyone gets there first!).

airborne_artist

11th Jul 2008, 12:45

I know; old, slow and noisy before anyone gets there first!

Trouble is TT, that you've been the last two since at least Feb 1978, perhaps longer....

Memories of the survival course in Feb 79, when the skinny Welshman got a bit hypothermic, but your "reserves" kept you going quite happily until endex :E

malreeves

11th Jul 2008, 12:46

I agree with Gainsey...I've still not forgiven the oranisation, that is - Bowen and Prince, for the fracas of selling off G-HUEY

LOTA

11th Jul 2008, 13:56

This could well be the latest in a fairly long list of cock-ups, but just as a matter of information, RIAT is now run by RAF Charitable Trust Enterprises, not the RAF Benevolent Fund. Quite separate and different organisations these days.....

noisy

11th Jul 2008, 19:07

Word just now on BBC radio Gloucestershire is suggesting that RIAT may be cancelled tomorrow!!

This is *completely unconfirmed* at this time.

noisy

11th Jul 2008, 19:27

AIR TATTOO CANCELLED ON SATURDAY
Due to the unusually heavy rainfall during the past 72 hours, a decision has been made by the organisers of the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire to cancel the airshow on Saturday, July 12.

The cancellation of the airshow on Saturday follows a sustained period of heavy rainfall that has resulted in waterlogged conditions not only in the public car parks but also on the airfield itself. The decision was taken following consultation with the police and other safety services.

Air Tattoo Director Tim Prince said it was the first time the Air Tattoo had ever had to cancel one of its days in its 38-year history.

“It is with great regret that we had to take the decision to cancel the airshow on the Saturday but the safety of the public is paramount.

“When it became clear that we could not guarantee the safety of the many thousands of people who had bought tickets for Saturday, the decision to cancel was straightforward.

“We are aware of the inconvenience our decision will have on the many thousands of people who have bought tickets for the Saturday but the potential risk of there being significant difficulties on the roads, in our car parks on the airbase itself were too high.”

It is anticipated that the show will be held on Sunday but it will be only for holders of tickets valid for Sunday. A decision in respect of this will be announced by 4pm on Saturday.

Please note that Saturday tickets will not be valid for Sunday.

Refund details for tickets bought for Saturday, July 12, can be found on the Royal International Air Tattoo website at Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises (http://www.airtattoo.com) . For further enquiries contact [email protected]

****

dead_pan

11th Jul 2008, 19:37

Nice touch that Saturday tickets won't be valid on Sunday - what a complete and utter f**K up. I doubt if RIAT will ever recover from this debacle. Tim Prince et al, hang your head in shame.

Sentry Agitator

11th Jul 2008, 19:46

Oh dear this sounds very similar to an event in '07 does it not?

At least the org managed to cancel day 1 in advance of the punters turning up and then having to turf them out after only an hour or 2.

However, if the ground is as waterlogged as suggested, can anyone see the potential for Sunday being another swamp disaster? I can't see it drying tomorrow with the current forecast.

I guess that is what happens when you try and have an airshow in the summer!

SA

gareth herts

11th Jul 2008, 19:53

Forecast is showing little to no rain for the next two days so they've got a chance I reckon.

Artie Fufkin

11th Jul 2008, 20:16

How can they cancel with such little notice????????

No matter how dissappointing it is, if it needs to be cancelled then it needs to be cancelled but surely a decision should have been taken earlier? I was just off to bed for an early night for the long drive requiring an early start and I have 2 friends already camping near the site.

Lots of VERY angry people will arrive tomorrow.

:{:{:{:{

Wycombe

11th Jul 2008, 20:34

Details now up on site - full refunds available for those with Sat only tickets.

That's an improvement on what the back of my ticket says.

Probably the right decision, having seen some of the photos posted elsewhere (UK Airshows Review forum, for example)

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=SF;f=22

Never mind, there's always Farnborough next week to see XH558 for me.

Alber Ratman

11th Jul 2008, 20:48

Well, Good call to do it now, instead of at 0830 in the morning like Waddo did last year!
To all the disapointed spotters, never mind. XH558 will be next displayed on Sunday(?) or at Farnborough....

Artie Fufkin

11th Jul 2008, 21:17

Sorry, have to post a second time as I still feel angry at this.

I've been flying over Faiford all week and seen what the weather radar was painting. Every captain I have flown with this week has been bored by me saying "it must be soaked by now, I do hope they don't canel, I really want to see the Raptor, Vulcan...." etc.

I've been to Glastonbury and understand how an RAF base can never be reduced to such a sight, but it shouldn't come as a shock to the organisers with around 12 hours to go. Aviation is the third profession I have been in and all three have screamed "communicate, as early as possible". How many Fairford punters are already in bed, ready for an early start, who could have been saved hundreds of miles in the car tomorrow if the organisers had put out a "decision pending" notice this afternoon?

Not good.:(

AllTrimDoubt

11th Jul 2008, 21:57

Serves em right. It's about time the organisers got a kick up the backside. RIAT treats the aircrew, engineers and volunteer helpers that make the show like s**t. Transport, accomm, timings, organisation...I could go on

Instead they concentrate on grabbing the money. Well, it now looks as though the people that pay the money are also going to find out the truth.

A big hangar party (to which getting guests in is like popping into the Big Bruvva house for a random cup of cofee - impossible!) is not enough this time to convince aircrew that it must have been a good weekend and if not it'll be better next year!

(Edited due to vitriol!)

GeeRam

11th Jul 2008, 22:18

Alber Ratman

11th Jul 2008, 23:36

I thought that the USAF looked after Fairford? :ugh:

Its only an RAF base (Station is not the word I would use) in the loosest sense of the term.

And the RIAT team (not RAF) take the place over..

Rafair7643

12th Jul 2008, 00:11

I don't think the "operator" of the station is really relevant.

The fact is that most if not all the car parks are of a temporary nature (ie fields). If they are saturated, then you're going to end up with a hell of a lot of stuck vehicles. These will no doubt be towed out, but there will probably be some damage to cars. Next thing the organisers will face claims from numerous Insurance Companies etc.

On top of that, once exiting the fields, you then have the problems of muck being dragged onto the public roads, which causes road safety problems.

Folks just have to accept that airfields, stations or bases (take your pick) are by their nature not "set-up" for 100,000 spectators and their vehicles.

Better to cancel today rather than wait until most folks are in queues outside the gates.

Cheers

Stew

paulmbe

12th Jul 2008, 00:19

Just got home to Merseyside after leaving Friday morning with my Saturday only ticket. :(
Big delays on the M5/6 going, torrential rain + Friday traffic and an accident, took hours to get to my hotel in Gloucester. Came back to the car from dinner and heard on the news at 9 that it was cancelled. Talked to some ground crew from 41 Squadron and some Danish Air Force guys and they were amazed the show hadn't been cancelled Friday morning. Packed bags, checked out of hotel I'd spent about 10 minutes in and got back in my car.
2 and a half hours later, home. May have driven a tad faster than I maybe should have :=
Oh well, my brother has already asked me the date for next year

Pilot Pacifier

12th Jul 2008, 01:04

Well they can always hot foot it over to Duxford for FLYING LEGENDS.

Will the Chinook HC Mk3 be there then? :}

KeepItTidy

12th Jul 2008, 01:54

AIDU go ******* ramm it and get a bite elsewhere , you really are not contributing to this discussion you are there to wind up people , good on ya well donwe . ***** heheheheheheh :ok:

RJC

12th Jul 2008, 09:46

Well, I was there yesterday. The grass areas on site were pools of water.

Heading out at around 1630, the car park areas and some camp sites were akin to small lakes. Some of the parking looked OK, but the entrace was under standing water.

The rain was in very heavy bursts, on and off all day. Hats off the people in the air Friday, well done given the conditions. We did wonder how they would cope on Saturday, when we got home and heard the news it did seem like the best decision.

I do know the Queen managed to escape all the rain, she departed the parade ground for lunch and the heavens opened - people were soaked through in a couple of minutes. The RAF people still marched off as if nothing was going on.

Still saw some pretty good practice flights though, and the fly past was great.

side salad

12th Jul 2008, 10:08

From RIAT themselves - Tickets will not be sold on the gate tomorrow.

Questions and Answers:

When was the decision made?
The decision to cancel the Air Tattoo was made at the earliest opportunity on Friday evening when it became clear that we could not guarantee public safety. RIAT staff have been working throughout this week to try and ensure that the car parks and showground were accessible
following the heavy rain.

Are tickets available for Sunday?
No tickets will be on sale at the gates on Sunday. A limited number of tickets may still be available at our usual retail outlets.

Bob on the Ground

12th Jul 2008, 10:16

Excellent!!

Just got back home after my 6 hour round trip to Glos. At virtually the same instant as I put the key in the front door I get a text from ticketmaster stating that the show has been cancelled. Why couldn't this have been sent yesterday?

Fair enough, if public safety couldn't be assured, then they were right to cancel. But as others have said here, some sort of warning on the web site that it was in the balance would have been useful during Friday.

:ugh:

biddedout

12th Jul 2008, 10:16

I guess I must have saved £80 in petrol, hog roast, coffee and beer costs. It's no one's fault, so I think I will donate a good proportion of that cash that I wouldn't have had by Sunday to the Vulcan XH558 fund.:)

Probably a wise decision to canx, but I do hope all the the stops are being pulled out to get the car parks useable for Sun. Given the amount that the tax payer must have coughed up, for Fridays private event, the powers that be should be doing all they can to prevent yet another national disaster.

Al R

12th Jul 2008, 10:25

The folk I feel sorry for are the traders. I was going down today and have lost a night's rate in digs - c'est la vie. I'll travel down tomorrow anyway because the digs are still there for me for the week, but I won't be getting in by the looks of it. So I'll have to find somewhere to park up and look like a sad git.

I accept that sh#t happens, but in a purely organisational context, it seems strange that such a massive international event has fallen foul to an afternoon's rain.. simply because the car park was buggered. Could not an alt parking areas in the region have been found and zillions of buses chartered? Was there not a fallback option in the plan, given that soft parking anywhere in the UK seems to be such a potentially weak area? No, it wouldn't have been perfect, but the public would understand I'm sure, and it'd have been good to have seen a 'can do' mentality for a change and it would have silenced the negativity from all the careerist whiners.

If Glastonbury can be flooded out and still survive because it has spirit, what was so different here? Fingers crossed for good weather tomorrow anyway.

Exrigger

12th Jul 2008, 11:18

These where taken Friday, borrowed from VTTS Forum and it would appear that the rain continued after these were taken:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff231/blizardthewatcher/07c4d666.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff231/blizardthewatcher/53ebdcea.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff231/blizardthewatcher/4ffc5547.jpg

Hangar_9

12th Jul 2008, 11:29

i feel ever so slightly bitter by the fact that hoards of people charged onto the car parks yesterday to get a glimpse of the flypast!

Why not have stopped this? if, as some people have quoted the decisions being made so far have been "common sense" then how on earth is that not one :ugh:

NURSE

12th Jul 2008, 12:04

looking at all the comments and from my own descisions RIAT should move out of Fairford to a more easily accessible airfield. Living in Yorkshire I'm not going to fork out for tickets then fuel to the other corner of the country Knowing there is a possibility of cancellation.
I'm sure there is venues in the middle of the country that are accessible to those of us who live up north.
Same with alot of other events. If not then an equal ammount of money should be spent by the Mod making aircraft available for local shows and encouraging foreign airforces to attend events like waddington.

tonyosborne

12th Jul 2008, 12:11

This hasn't just been an afternoon's rain, but three days of heavy, at times non-stop water coming from the sky, the car parks are absolutely trashed, and there are no alternatives available to them, flat usable fields are in rather short supply and the farmers in the area inflate their prices for RIAT to use them. There are no large expanses of concrete in the area for quite a few miles around, and I don't see a big storage yard of buses ready at a moment's notice to bring the punters in from a remote site.

Bear in mind that this is the first time an IAT/RIAT has been cancelled but not the first time that heavy rain has dogged the show. The difference was that the organisers could park the cars on the vast expanses of concrete that were available at Fairford but the USAF, now there is even more concrete available, but USAF insists that parking must be off-field, in the name of security, odd when at other events that the USAF participate still allow on-field parking, clearly questions need to be asked of our 'friends' across the pond.

RIAT made the right decision whether the moaners like it or not, fingers crossed for a show on Sunday, not looking likely though when more rain has fallen here today.

Stratofreighter

12th Jul 2008, 15:54

Now that both showdays have been called off, is it still possible to attend departure day next Monday?? http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/images/smilies/confused.gif
No word on this in the press release...

Hangar_9

12th Jul 2008, 16:21

My guess is the crews are going to want to get home asap now the shows completely off. I doubt much will still be at FFD on monday. :uhoh:

Stratofreighter

12th Jul 2008, 17:07

Just managed to get through to RIAT by phone. Park and View for departure day next Monday has NOT been called off (yet)... :rolleyes:

Norma Stitz

13th Jul 2008, 16:54

Has anyone asked the question that with:

1. Ticket refunds (unless the legal eagles decide a clause on the back of the ticket can be invoked after all)

2. Presumed refund for exhibitiors who pay four figure sums for their pitches (I am guessing, so by all means enlighten us anyone who knows)

3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)

4. No show DVD to sell come autumn

...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?

L1A2 discharged

13th Jul 2008, 19:14

Silsoe,

Its operational, not health & safety ..... unable to allow the operation of the car parks etc due to water levels.

Too many people lay the blame for something not happening on 'elf-n-safety'.

:(

NutLoose

13th Jul 2008, 21:14

...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?

One would hope and suspect they have some form of insurance for this.

Rafair7643

13th Jul 2008, 21:43

OK, if its a car park issue, what about those staying locally and going to the actual location by bike or Shanks'?

And just how do you control this? You must have more faith in the UK publics adherance to rules than I have.

You honestly think you'd be able to restrict access to those "staying locally and using bike or foot" :=

Within 30 minutes of the gates being opened, every public road surrounding Fairford would be blocked by Johnny Public just parking their cars on the verge and walking to the gate :ugh:

Cheers

Stew

staplefordheli

13th Jul 2008, 21:54

could also be the final straw for the XH551 project
All that lost revenue from donations and i guess appearance fee reduced? and who wants to get involved as a corporate sponsor with all the uncertanties of this weekend, let alone if the complex aircraft it is goes tech just to add the mix.

Bet no one will underwrite weather insurance next year! or the premiums will tripple thats for sure

Warmtoast

13th Jul 2008, 22:03

...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?

Not quite I think. Latest accounts can be seen here:

http://www.airtattoo.com/Assets/Files/Trust/RAFCT%20R&As%202007.pdf

Rafair7643

13th Jul 2008, 23:49

Ah - so you have a Chelsea Tractor, so to hell with everyone else :D

Whatever the depth of the ruts in those images, is immaterial. Once the traffic had been allowed in on Saturday, they would have been 10 times worse.

With my 4x4, I would be the one towing.

Aye, and I bet your insurance company would know nowt about that, until they started receiving claims for bent bumpers etc. :eek:

Whilst your "I'm alright Jack" attitude may very well work for you, the organisers fortunately, have a tad more consideration for the welfare of the folks attending and also for the term Public Liability.

Cheers

Stew

blue monday

14th Jul 2008, 14:03

Do insurance companies cover for 'off the public highway use'?
An RAF base, or is it American soil, is not the public highway especially if it is not your place of work, so I think you'll find the majority of people wouldn't be insured there anyway. (look at your small print ;) )

3 Years as a claims Handler / manager, i can say you are talking a little bit of poo, if i had a claim from some one who had had an accident sliding in mud leaving an air show i would have no hesitation in authorising the claim. If that car had an accident with another car that was parked at the said airshow i would have to pay the third party claim. There is a misconception that if you have an accident on a private road/private land you forfit cover. This is utter rubish, an unscrupulos insurer / claim management company may try to state that cover forfitted but they would never win in the courts for such an occurance.

If however an accidnet happened Airside that is a different matter, as is a Track day, and the Nurburgring is also a very grey area.

"Taylor"

14th Jul 2008, 18:23

With all the negative comments and opinions flying around about the cancellation of this years RIAT, i just wanted to say thankyou to one of the organisers/supervisors. I only know his first name is Bob and he was driving one of the transits airside. After being asked by a few of the spotters around me on the west viewing area if he could ask the pilot of the Raptor to stay low until the end of the runway, he did exactly that. He then returned to tell us the pilot was more than happy to oblige and would also, on return from displaying at Farnborough, taxi to the end of the runway and do a circuit in front of the crowd allowing me to take these photos. He taxi'd twice approx 30' in front of us and even demonstrated the thrust vectoring nozzles.
Thanks again Bob for making the best of an unfortunate weekend. :D

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n94/trucker-t/24039048.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n94/trucker-t/3d018007.jpg

Vim_Fuego

14th Jul 2008, 18:37

Unfortunately I was mixed up in this weekends RIAT...Struggled to get a jet down to it for it to be cancelled approx 2 hours later...Very disappointing.

I will say this though...From our perspective the organisation was fantasic, the organisers incredibly flexible (giving us later and later arrival slots and messing around with their parking plan several times) and all the staff warm and welcoming...When it cancelled for the Sunday we went in for some hosting and even though the disappointment was obvious from the staff they were helpful to the last. It was the oddest feeling walking around a fully set-up airshow in the brilliant sunshine with no public present and nothing displaying.

Having seen the fields that were to be car parks from the bus to our hotel it came as no surprise that it was cancelled...It was absolutely the correct decision in my mind as with just the show setting up traffic driving up and down the access roads it was already cutting up into a bog...With thousands of cars hammering them it would have become difficult and dangerous in no time at all.

I can't guarantee the accuracy of these figures but it was mentioned that they paid £1.4M for the insurance and they were expecting about £20M back to cover everything and apparently the insurance was £400K more this year due to Waddington losing a day last year so the insurance company up the ante...Makes you wander about the fallout from this weekend...Will insurance be affordable again and if it is available will smaller shows be abled to stump up?

Well done to all the RIAT staff for putting on a brave face...Those of us that turned up last night had a good time.

tonker

14th Jul 2008, 18:39

Off thread and alot in hindsight but seeing that thing, and reading about the results its gets, makes me believe even a small number of those things in our chaps hands supported by a decent F35 fleet would make for a heck of a good RAF fleet.

"Taylor"

14th Jul 2008, 18:49

Definatley a very impressive a/c to say the least, with the Americans still being rather secretive about it, this being demonstrated by the fact they flew an F-15 out with it in very close formation and one behind it so its radar signature couldn't be guaged.
I should also say how great the American aircrews were coming to talk to the crowds and giving away toys to the kids and chatting with them too. A very friendly bunch, welcoming queries about the a/c.

Rocket Chucker

14th Jul 2008, 19:02

A few more photos - trouble with photo editing so not a crystal as Taylors :D but there we go. Not too confident about it working though.

http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/RocketChucker/FAIRFORD/?action=view&current=REVIEW002.jpg
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/RocketChucker/FAIRFORD/?action=view&current=COLOURS001.jpg
http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/RocketChucker/FAIRFORD/?action=view&current=IMGP0691.jpg

Rafair7643

14th Jul 2008, 19:16

Or is it simply a case of...http://vsefoto.com/img/smiles_dark/smileyEnvy.gif

You know you're right. I'm all jealous as hell about your fuel bills and proposed higher tax etc. :)

Actually the point I was making was that you were advocating that the Airshow should have gone ahead, as your 4x4 would have been okay dokey. [hence I'm alright Jack]

As regards Insurance, at the time of the "hypothetical" towing the car park would be classed as an "other public place" and the Road Traffic Act requirement for Insurance would apply. Whether the punter tied the rope or not, you as the "tower" could/would be held responsible for any damage caused.

Cheers

Stew

splitbrain

14th Jul 2008, 19:22

Whatever the depth of the ruts in those images, is immaterial. Once the traffic had been allowed in on Saturday, they would have been 10 times worse.

Absolutely, and you would have thought this was obvious wouldn't you? At the rain sodden V Festival at Weston Park 2 years ago the carparks started out looking better than the ones in the photos; by Sunday evening they were hellish to drive through. Last year was a repeat performance and many cars, including local taxis doing pickups, had to be abandoned overnight.

Mal Drop

16th Jul 2008, 23:00

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday088TFP500.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday181TFP500.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday185TFP500.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday192TFP500.jpg

Got quite close...

Rafair7643

16th Jul 2008, 23:34

Actually old boy, I don't "hate" Chelsea Tractors...............look where I live! I'm a country boy. :ok:

As to the weather...............not a scooby mate. I was a Range Conducting Officer and Civvie Policeman. All I knew about the weather was that most days in Scotland when I was outside............it always tipped down.

Cheers

Stew

Rafair7643

17th Jul 2008, 00:40

Only 114 miles? Man, yer damn near a city dweller :p

Cheers

Stew

Green Flash

17th Jul 2008, 13:38

Then why, if the climate is warming at such a great rate, is it raining so much?

To keep all the Chelsea Tractors washed clean of (airshow carpark) mud!:};)

Regie Mental

17th Jul 2008, 14:25

I suspect the talk of moving away from Fairford has much to do with rumours that the base will go into care & maintenance soon. If that is something which prompts a move then it would also rule out any other disused base so I guess Cottesmore is a prime candidate for a new venue (until it too becomes disused).

"Taylor"

17th Jul 2008, 16:50

Great pictures there Mal, especially love the hanger shot. You must be in a priveledged position to get that access.

Mal Drop

18th Jul 2008, 22:51

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday098TFP500.jpg

The trick is getting the guy who is guarding it to pose for the shot...

Didntdoit

19th Jul 2008, 10:27

Well, an interesting thread. It's interesting how it starts off with vitriol, goes through anger and understanding, frustration and sorrow, cynicism and sympathy. :ugh:

I had a gut feel when I arrived on Monday that the parking would be an issue. And that was before I saw the state of some of the showground areas. To call an event off on the basis of a gut feel, well, that's a hanging offence, no? Then, it appears, so is calling it off at late notice. Add the crime of pressing on regardless, then you have a no win, lose your balls situation. You can never keep everyone happy. But it's clear to me that there are many who regardless of what the RAFCTE does, they will be tainted by individual experience and misinformed opinion :mad:; those will not be converted. There are many more who do not feel that way, and these are the punters that come back year on year. And that number, by the way, includes crews and their support (ok - the Dutch can be a bit barking :rolleyes:).

I've been involved in RIAT for a while now, and thought I'd add a couple of perspectives:

Treatment of Volunteers; it went through a low period, but we get looked after ok thanks. Sure, the accom can be low rent, but hotels is not an option. If treatment is that poor, I wouldn't be having a reunion with a bunch of other 'suckers' year on year.
Alternate Venue; Let's see how well we do in finding a long runway, next to lots of empty concrete, relatively close to ample hotels, etc, with lot's of vacant accomodation, well maintained facilities and infra and acceptable public access. Answers on a postcard to....
Costs; RIAT gets a bill for the extra policing. This is a 6 figure sum. For those that say that RIAT is just about making money or getting Vulcan airborne - go figure...
Costs...2; Anyone seen the price of fuel lately. Sadly, RAFCTE has not been able to get sponsorship with Shell.
Bowen and Prince; Frankly, it's a shame to see folk taking a pop at those that have left this world. As for Mr P, well, it takes balls to make a call so close to the wire, and RAFCTE would be nothing without his drive and leadership.
"Bob"; Well, he works for me, and I'll be having words! But seriously, we all try to make the experience as good as we can, for all we interact with. We don't please everyone, but most are content and understanding.
Letting Spotters in on the Friday; More mis-info. There were 5,000 guests involved in the Colours' Parade. Guess where they had to park? My honest opinion that this gave us the best indication that the car parks would not have held over the weekend.
Tikcets; Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's say that there was no control on ticket sales. Let's say that Sat tickets were made valid for Sunday. Let's say Sunday went ahead. Do the math; it don't work. I cannot think of many public events that do not have a control on access. The decision re day-specific tickets was a change; folk don't 'do' change. It was though an overdue change. :D

This time last week, we should've been surrounded by thousands of people enjoying the best airshow in the world. That we weren't was due to the hardest yet easiest decision. Forget health and safety, public safety, safe sex; it was a no brainer. And it was the most gutting experience I've had in a long time. But..........we'll be back. :cool:

And, as there are some gratuitous Rapter pics going....'av it!

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4305/riat20080715021et1.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6439/riat20080715015fl5.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8192/riat20080715005kz8.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2632/riat20080712007sj6.jpg

It's an awesome jet and the RAF is fortunate to have such a fine ambassador as the first Raptor exchange pilot. :ok: And compared to the last time the USAF bought a new jet to RIAT, the 1st TFW people were good to work with.

And, one more thing....It's been emotional.

Warmtoast

19th Jul 2008, 10:57

With all the speculation re costs relvant to mounting the Tattoo (insurance of £1.4 and £20 million are mentioned above, as is a three figure sum for the extra policing) the latest published accounts:

http://www.airtattoo.com/Assets/Files/Trust/RAFCT%20R&As%202007.pdf

show more sobering figures as below. OK they aren't this year's figures but give an idea as to the finances involved.

How the Money was Raised for the 12 month period ended 28 February 2007

Incoming Resources
Commercial trading operations

Royal International Air Tattoo 5,714,976
Other income 1,324,703

Total Incoming Resources 7,039,679

Resources Expended
Costs of generating funds:

Promotional costs 270,855
Commercial trading operations
Royal International Air Tattoo 4,145,951
Other expenses 2,053,680
Corporation Tax 34,068

Governance costs:
Legal and professional fees 4,552
Audit fees 17,714
Travel and subsistence 76,432

Donation to Royal Air Force Charitable Trust 300,000

Total Resources Expended 6,903,252

Net incoming resources for this period 136,427
Fund balance brought forward 1 March 2006 110,447
Fund balance carried forward 28 February 2007 246,874

Mal Drop

19th Jul 2008, 11:13

The amount of adverse comment made about cancelling the show days is (in my opinion) tiny compared to what would have been levelled against RIAT had they gone ahead. Remember that for the majority of punters it is meant to be a nice day out with the family. The conditions on the grass areas were atrocious even with the relatively light traffic we had on Friday. Having been part of the show for almost 20 years, I truly believe that Tim Prince made the right call.

Here's a picture of the Colours Parade marching off...

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday076TFP.jpg

Oh, and a few more Raptor shots from Friday.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday202TFP.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday209TFP.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/photoboris/RIAT2008Friday220TFP.jpg

Green Flash

19th Jul 2008, 11:22

It may be worth considering that, especially for things outside the wire, the Silver Commander might just have an opinion or two? Not blaming Gloucs coppers who face a big challenge each year and I'm not blowing smoke up TP's fundament either. Mangled car park, punter slips, car slides out of control - you get the picture?

Rafair7643

19th Jul 2008, 22:38

Now I'm no expert, but surely that picture of the Colour Party is just screaming out to be used in the Caption Competition.

Cheers

Stew

Al R

20th Jul 2008, 08:31

To the person who was kind enough to suggest by other means what I used to get up to in my room in the Barrack Block, I would remind them that I was not suggesting that the show should have continued under the circumstances. Rather, I was wondering why there were no contingencies in place in the first place. On local telly last week, 2 of the farmers who owned the fields were ruefully admitting and suggesting that they should have had more hardcore in place - but didn't. So why not? Was the matter simply not considered? Is it not the role of the organising committee to think of these matters - the 'worse case scenario' option?

In the week that saw the first anniversary of floods in Gloucestershire, only someone who was organising a village fete could conceivably fall back on the 'ignorance' defence.. but a world leading event with a 'Royal' suffix? Come on! Especially when you wonder how much of that RIAT statement of expenditure covers salaries anyway. £175,000 or so in hardcore and application could have prevented the cancelling, which as it turns out, has been an even greater financial catastrophe. But as it was, no one even considered planning ahead (compare to Goodwood FoS, which did) and its that RIAT thinking which has to be called into question - not the decision itself to cancel.