So what was your first ever IMC solo trip like??

[helimutt]

For the pro's out there who now fly fancy IFR kit, what was your first ever IFR/IMC trip like. How did it make you feel when you first punched into the cloud on your own and what did you learn from it?:uhoh:

[ShyTorque]

I learned that it was time the RAF spent out for some decent IFR kit.

Puma: One VOR box (no Y channels, mind). One DME. One ATC radio. No mode C. No ILS. And a bloody boat nav - Decca, with turret switches in it, a "clockwork" navaid, like something out of a Jules Verne film! Oh yes - and a compass card with no heading bug on it but a redundant ADF needle, not connected to anything at all.

Bulldog: No IFR navaids whatsoever. However, we were often required to instruct VMC on top after a back bearing departure to keep us out of CAS. We would then obtain true bearings from local RAF stations to keep us over the correct county. For us the "Trent beacon" was plumes from the power stations along the river Trent bubbling through the cloud, sometimes visible, sometimes not. We then did QGH airfield letdowns back into base. Barking mad, really, especially when we did close formation letdowns in solid IMC.

[Shawn Coyle]

It was a terrifying, but mercifully short trip in a Scout. Which had two comms radios, no navaids, a transponder and the worst intercom / radio controller I've ever seen.
Going from Boscombe Down to Lee-on-Solent - perfect day for an IFR trip I thought. Checked the weather, checked the NOTAMS, checked the enroute supplement - everything in order. Maps etc. all sorted out. Launched into the goo and promptly discovered that a) the Scout was bloody squirrelly and b) that the black on black attitude indicator was worthless. Partly terrified at this stage, I continued, and managed to make the radio change to Southampton without going out of control. Asked how I wanted to get into Lee-on-Solent, I replied - "Radar approach". The response of 'The Radar's off the air for planned maintenance' was a bit unnerving - I'd checked the enroute supplement and knew that it was normally scheduled to be off on that weekday, but assumed that this would be like it was nearly everywhere else - off only if the weather was VFR. I mean, why turn it off if the weather was IFR and you needed it? This didn't help my stability, as I tried to figure out what I was going to do - radar to radar doesn't give you a good 'air picture' of where you are. Flying accuracy definitely suffered, and there were long pauses between communications while I struggled to keep the machine upright.
Eventually got a radar approach from Southampton and became a blurr of trying to unfold VFR maps at the end of the approach and motored on to Lee-on-solent. But I never, ever went IFR alone in the Scout after that.

[heliski22]

Compared to Shawn and Shy T, mine was a comparatively straightforward affair. En route solid IMC at 5000ft from departure to an ILS an hour away but I was spoiled by being fully coupled in a SPIFR 109C the day after I got the Rating on my licence. It was several months later before I summoned enough courage to do it manually, self-positioning from Initial Approach to establish on the LOC at about 10 miles, then got the lights at 250ft - felt about 7 foot tall after that!

As I said, compared to the others, all very straighforward in a properly equipped IFR twin. However, the first time you get the lights, all on your own, is a particular thrill!!

22

[ShyTorque]

However, the first time you get the lights, all on your own, is a particular thrill!!


And the first time you DON'T, is also a particular "thrill"......... :eek:

[RVDT]

SPIFR in a Helicopter - WHY?

[whatsarunway]

Im still amazed when i see the lights, fully coupled or not. the fact i pressed the buttons in the right sequence amazes me, i cant even button my shirt properly.

First IMC flight, was dark, lonely and long.
Left the landing light on didnt notice until i flew into a rain shower and saw a million little white dots coming at me out of the dark. scared the bejeebus out of me!

Just remember what you were taught and youll be fine. :)

[Mitch Vernon]

There was nobody more amazed that I that I actually found it a bit easier.

I didn't have an engine failure half way down the ILS, the auto pilot didn't fail and all the instruments seemed to work as advertised.

But then again it was only a short flight over a couple of aids and down the ILS.

Cheers,

[toppingcheque]

It was nearly imc on that long ferry through the South Pacific, especially that long over water leg, couldn't tell the sea from the sky. However, at 5000ft or so the only thing we could bump into was ourselves. Hope your plastic recovered Mitch.

Agree with that Scout story, terrible thing to fly IF.

[mikelimapapa]

Inadvertant IMC in an R22 at night.....popped in the cloud at 2000ft, popped out at about 900ft and 90 degrees off my original heading.:eek: Longest 20 seconds of my life!

[gulliBell]

My first IMC solo was in a VFR Longranger at 10,000'. Needless to say the next 20 minutes until I broke out of cloud at 500' were very interesting. The landing was quite uneventful. I stayed on the ground for the next 3 days waiting for the weather to clear before returning.

[griffothefog]

Bet there's a certain old timer, not far from the sea, who could enlighten us on some wobbly S58T IMC stories!!

As for me, not my first IMC flight but certainly one of the more interesting.. BO105, no SAS, no ILS, full IMC for over an hour and a half from Wales to Cornwall with a SRA at the bottom (foggy bottom!!) NOT RECOMMENDED :eek:

Safe flying all.

[helimutt]

...beginning to realise how easy I have it really, having someone in that right seat to make the final decisions! :ok:

Hate it when they do that 'pilot incapacitation' thing on me though. Why do I still read the checklist out loud I wonder?

Single pilot IFR for us? we're not even allowed to taxi the a/c to the hangar solo!! Bit of a waste of the £20k they spent on my type rating.

[Bravo73]

SPIFR in a Helicopter - WHY?

Er, because there isn't another crewmember on board...? :confused:

[ShyTorque]

SPIFR in a Helicopter - WHY?

If the boss wants to go, cloud is not a reasonable excuse (certainly wasn't, yesterday). It can be done quite safely with the right equipment, training and attitude. Single pilot is better because I need the left seat to lay out charts, plates, PLOG etc. And the co-pilot's weight is better spent on an extra 85 kgs of fuel.... :p

[helimutt]

85kgs? Hey...watch it! :)

[JimL]

Helimutt,

In accordance with JAR-OPS 3.615(a)(2).

Jim

[BJC]

My first "solo" IMC was a training trip as a brand new captain with a brand new copilot. On departure we had the wrong NDB tuned in (256 instead of 266 which where two miles apart, hard to tell when they were on the same rough bearing). After ATC kindly informed us we were two miles north of track, we had a radio failure right where we'd flight planned an altitude change. Copilot changed altitudes while I was heads down sorting out the comms issue. Just as I got terminal up on a backup radio they politely informed me we had descended without clearance. Later as we are breaking out from the enroute ILS at 400' it occurs to me that this is substantially lower then the 1000' or so forecast and our destination (NDB only) requires 600'. We amend our route to try to get into the home base (which is at minimums now despite the VFR forecast) with enough gas to divert if necessary. During the approach at MDA in heavy rain my wipers fail (thank you Bell for those wonderful things) and the NDB goes intermittent. Just as I am about to overshoot we become visual with the pad and land.
The only system that didn't fail me that flight were the engines and I am forever grateful to have learned all those lessons, the hard way, early in my career. Now I never trust the weather or rely on Bell wipers and always confirm the copilot's navaid settings.

[eurocopter beans]

SPIFR in an adequately equipped aircraft...why not?

[darrenphughes]

Inadvertant IMC in an R22 at night.....popped in the cloud at 2000ft, popped out at about 900ft and 90 degrees off my original heading.:eek: Longest 20 seconds of my life!Jesus, I just got chills up my spine thinking about that 1.

[ShyTorque]

BJC, apart from that, did you enjoy the flight? ;)

[BJC]

BJC, apart from that, did you enjoy the flight?

I enjoyed the landing...

I forgot to mention what happens to your SA when on departure you are told to "call established on the airway" and when you do the terminal control responds with "no you're not" :eek:

First time hard IMC in a helo and I am lost before leveling off. That left a good taste in my mouth. That guy had us pegged right from the start of the trip and I'm sure his opinion only got better as the trip progressed.

[RVDT]

eurocopterbeans,

Read the thread - what was the big deal about going solo IMC? Lack of confidence?

The other comments about "adequately equipped" aircraft. That probably infers that the aircraft is doing most of it on it's own with someone watching. What happens when the aircraft "fails", which is more often than gets admitted, then the watcher has to do it, who actually hasn't done it in a while.

SPIFR in helicopters - it has knobs on it.

[eurocopter beans]

Ok, i will ammend...

sufficientlly equipped aircraft + sufficiently equipped pilot = No Problem:ok:

[eurocopter beans]

Sorry, to clarify, we are talking about your first solo IMC flight and not inadvertant IMC entry? If you are embarking on your first, planned IMC solo flight you should have
1. The required IF rating on type.
2. An aircraft certified to operate SPIFR.
3. The requisite currency required to maintain your SPIFR rating.
4. The required confidence in your own IF experience to embark on a solo IMC Flight.

If we are talking about inadvertant IMC entry in a machine or in WAT conditions unsuitable to IF flight, well that is a different kettle of monkeys.

[heliski22]

Oh, for heaven's sake RVDT, what are you on about? Do you want your coffee poured for you as well? Maybe you should try bizjets or some such where the trolley dolly can serve you breakfast? And don't forget, your coffee should be served by reaching it behind your back and across your left shoulder (assuming you're the CAPTAIN in the left seat) in case, God forbid, it might spill on the centre console - or your pants!!

At the end of the day, formal IFR ops require require two pilots, no matter what the circumstances - in some cases, it's two people, on others it's one person and a computer.

If, in a two-crew cockpit, one is incapacitated, there's only one left to do it all - that's an emergency and will be declared as such. Moreover, if the aircraft is required to be operated two crew, one pilot flying is illegal - unless it's it's a declared emergency. And if, as is often the case, the junior co-jo is the one left holding the controls, he or she may not have even taxied the aircraft recently..........

If, in a SPIFR cockpit, the autopilot/FD fails, that's an emergency and foolish the pilot who doesn't, at the very least, alert ATC and request minimum manoeuvring and straight in to whatever is available. Even more foolish is the pilot who doesn't keep him or herself in current practice for flight under the IFRs.

If you don't want to share your cockpit with an autopilot or a Flight Director, that'a a matter for yourself but I'm not buying the idea.

And if you want two crew AND the FD, I'm not sure what the two of you are going to be doing? Both of you watching it in case it quits.......?

Or do you need all that time and spare capacity to make sure it finds its own way from waypoint to waypoint, eh? After all, you're the one putting in those waypoints and YOU couldn't be wrong, could you?

SPIFR is part of the job from time to time. A bit like powerline patrols or flying cameras - if you don't like it, don't bloody do it!!

[eurocopter beans]

yeah, what he said. so there.

[Hippolite]

I was lucky with mine. Having done similar trips many times before in both IMC and VMC 2 crew. Once I completed my Single Pilot Line Check and was cleared to line on the S76A (Hamilton Standard Phase II) IMC /SPIFR flights to rigs were quite routine.

I believe my first one was actually night IMC from North Denes to a diving support vessel in the Esmond field called the Bar Protector. I carried out what used to be called a rig radar NDB approach and found the vessel without too much difficulty. It was raining and windy.

The most difficult part was the cross cockpit landing on a moving deck in the dark. At least I had power in hand with the wind. I think that the 9 guys in the back were quite relieved to be on the ship! After that, it was off the Newcastle to drop the inbound pax then back to Denes.

We used to do night Amoco shuttles with a crewman almost daily in winter and it was not uncommon to plan IFR on those flights, especially after a few days of fog when the client wanted to get the trip done, even with a poor payload. Then there were the night Rowan Crew changes once a month.

While it was busy and one had to concentrate hard, the Bristow training in those days was excellent. We did so much night flying in both IMC and VMC that it was kind of routine. I think that there is a lot of value in training but also in being practiced at what you have to do.

Would I do it now?? No, probably not, too old and, quite properly, risk management would dictate otherwise nowadays.

[RVDT]

heliski,

Touch a nerve did I?

Add up the people who DON'T/WON'T or NO LONGER do it.

Oil companies,
VIP,
Helicopter Airlines (granted there are few).

[helimutt]

People, my intention, I started this thread for some light hearted replies. The reason being, recently, there seems to have been a whole load of IR training going on and a lot of low time people completing IR's. In the UK you can do minimum time in a twin eng IFR equipped a/c and do the IR course and suddenly, have 500hrsTT and a fresh IR. Ok, so not many people are going to let you launch with PAX with such low time, but all of the training undertaken to that point will have been dual or in a sim. Ok, so you can fly. Sure you're good enough to pass the IRT. The first time you go IMC SP then I imagine it does have some sort of mental effect. The tension/stress levels are bound to rise but again, proper training, maintaining a level head and using the FD/AP etc, should have the trip turn out great. Afterwards, I could imagine the euphoria from proving you can atually do it, must be quite a rush.

Personally, I can't get into IMC often enough because I love it, but i'm not likely to experience SPIFR for some time yet, if ever, but if I ever do in the future, i'm making the most of all of the experience I can get as a co-jo offshore.

[heliski22]

No, RVDT - I just like to throw a stone in the pond now and then.

Anybody can see the splash but I find it's much more interesting to watch where the ripples go.........;)

[eurocopter beans]

helimutt,

you seem to have a reasoned and fair concept of spifr. It is not easy and should never be approached flippantly, it is demanding and asks a lot of the pilot however neither it aint rocket science if all the boxes are ticked and the pilot is sufficiently trained and experienced. My first SPIFR flight was excellent in that it meant i had to be alert and active and when first entering cloud it meant remembering the basics. Other than that its down to system and time management. It always helps if your first flight are in benign conditions... weather not at minima at destination etc. I would much prefer to cruise back at 4000 and shoot an ILS than hedge hop in crappy wx at a couple of hunder feet!

[zlocko2002]

My first solo IMC was in my first solo cross country in helicopter (bell 206) visibility 0,5 NM, haze sunny day. :uhoh:
My usual IMC is in Mi-8/17: one/two COM. 1 ADF and RMI + doppler navigation (if it works), clouds, 2000-4500m no oxygen, usually light to moderate icing :ouch:

[bast0n]

Helimutt - great idea!

"People, my intention, I started this thread for some light hearted replies"

It was a long time ago, but some buttock clenching trips you never forget!

The aircraft, a Whirlwind 7, no stick trim, no throttle govenor, no stabalisation, a basic panel, an even more basic radio, no power and a critical dislike for anything less than 220 rrpm.

The weather, gales and low cloud.

The place Portland.

The mission to get back to Culdrose for the weekend!

I had just achieved the basic instrument rating but had never done it solo - I was that inexperienced. I took off and in the Jungly tradition intended to low level it along the coast. Unfortunately the Lyme Bay ranges were active so I had to go inland for the first bit. Approaching Hardys monument at about 100ft, WHAM into fog. Fog in front and fog behind. No option but to pull full power watch the revs and remember where the artificial horizon was.
I shall never forget the first 2000ft of that climb! Trying to get an instrument scan going, control the rpm, keep straightish and make a radio call asking for radar assistance and incidentally talking to my maintainer down below who was asking stupid questions. I think I got round to getting the ball in the middle about half way up!

Eventually I got it going in the right direction, passed out of radar cover and DR navigated down to where Culdrose approach could pick me up and bring me in for a GCA approach.

I felt quite proud of having achieved that flight but the consequences of not achieving it...........................

Did I learn anything from the trip? Yes - plan ahead if you are going into cloud, and secondly avoid it at all costs if you can. Frightening chickens is so much more fun.:):):)

PS what is SPIFR??

[Paul Cantrell]

I would much prefer to cruise back at 4000 and shoot an ILS than hedge hop in crappy wx at a couple of hunder feet!

For me, it depends on a couple things. In the local area (City of Boston) I'm comfortable flying low because I know where all the wires and towers are along the highways (did a few years flying the traffic helicopter). Outside the local area, I'd rather file, except when it's winter here and the freezing level is to the surface, then I don't go IFR. Too many stories about what happens when you take on a load of ice.

I was lucky in that I already had some IFR experience in airplanes before the first time I flew SPIFR in a helicopter, but there was still that moment just before I punched into the clouds where I thought "I can't believe I'm doing this!".

Too many years of flogging VFR R22s around where I've always figured IMC==death.

[verticalhold]

RVDT;

I was offshore when the oil companies stopped SPIFR, but on corporate/VIP the choice lies with the customer. If its a particularly difficult job, or a very high profile customer we may ask to go two crew, but its up to the man who pays the bills.

All of our pilots are rated for SPIFR, sometimes when we are lucky they send two of us. Oddly I never feel the workload halves, It actually feels that it goes down by about two thirds.

On our renewals we are never told where we will be doing the approaches until the visual section is over. At that point the examiner says "Take me to ******** and fly the following approaches." He has everything booked with the airfield concerned we just have to get it right. It stops the complacency of knowing the plates off the top of your head if it is home base.


VH