Terrible Road Accident Rate in the UAE.

[NG_Kaptain]

I guess this is no surprise to those of us living here, maybe they will do something.


Majority of road accident victims Emirati - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/522573-majority-of-road-accident-victims-emirati?ln=en)

Majority of road accident victims Emirati
by Dylan Bowman on Saturday, 21 June 2008

ALARMING FIGURES: The majority of victims of car crashes in the UAE are young Emiratis, the DPE has said.
Most victims of road accidents in the United Arab Emirates are young Emiratis despite the fact that UAE nationals make up just 15 percent of the Gulf state's population, Abu Dhabi's Department of Planning and Economy (DPE) has revealed.

The DPE said on Saturday in its weekly report carried by state news agency WAM that the number of fatal road accidents in the UAE jumped 27 percent to 1,056 in 2007, up from 830 in 2005.

The department said one person dies every eight hours as a result of road accidents, blaming the high number of fatalities on speeding.

It said "most of those victims were young UAE nationals", without being more specific.

The department described the figures as "alarming".

The department said that around 25 out of every 100 people in UAE road accidents die.

The DPE said the fatality ratio was three times higher than in many Western counties.

[Fart Master]

I think 'alarming' should be replaced with 'not surprising'

You give spoilt children shed loads of cash to go out and buy flash cars........

[GlueBall]

Drive a Hummer and be well protected, and be the king of the road.

[145qrh]

I suppose it's good news:eek: , at least not many ex-pats involved.

As said before, young male arabs no nowt about discipline, starts at a young age and , as we read, ends at a young age.

[CAYNINE]

....or a black GMC like the one the moron local in the springs that passed me on the grass and hit my car.....but what to do.

[.Aero]

UAE nationals make up just 15 percent of the Gulf state's population

And that figure is only going to drop further - on the plus side though, it'll mean less fatal car accidents! :ok:

[sispanys ria]

145qrhI suppose it's good news:eek: , at least not many ex-pats involved.

Sure, it's well known that expats lifes are more valuable than others.

[NG_Kaptain]

Its not that expats lives are worth more, its that the young Emeratis have been indulged and spoilt and don't appreciate the consequences of their behavior. The governments own statistics prove it.

[Scottishjockey]

If Sispanys ria ever, ever gets a seat flying anything in the gulf let me know...... after looking at his posts here and on other threads... the thought of engaging brain before typing, talking or walking seems somewhat beyond our friend................... :ugh:

[NG_Kaptain]

Hi thought he worked with you Scottie!!!
And I'm having a Dewars...at home...not driving.

[GAGing in Bahrain]

Ahh, good old Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection at work.:8 Let the idiots kill themselves off.

[Roster Change]

I asked a young local lad I work with several months ago "why do you drive like you do"...reply...."we are invincible" !!!!!!!!

[yoyonow]

...."we are invincible" !!!!!!!!

Actually, so was I at their age. However, I could only afford a Beetle........

[Lord Flashhart]

It is when these "invincible" idiots take out innocents, it becomes more tragic.

[Instant Hooligan]

Or could it be that ex-pats value their own life more...??

[pool]

It's the overrated self-esteem thing. One guy i flew with said that locals should be allowed to drive faster because they think faster and are therfore the better drivers. Not surprisingly he didn't demonstrate that skill at controls. Not to say he was worse, but quite average, as we all are, only human.
The problem is, as was said before, that at a certain stage we men all feel supernatural. There the parents, teachers and the society, but especially fathers, have to step in and give most of us a reality check. Actually this fades out in western societies, with divorces single parents or ill fated patchwork families, thus the rising problems with our youth. But in a society where women count less and any authority but the fathers of the tribe belonging to a certain religion is disrespected, such reality checks don't happen at all. Especially as the fathers excell more in chasing money and blondes than beeing at home.
But i agree, it's natural selection which ultimately leaves the more reasonable who survive.

[GAGing in Bahrain]

That and most ex-pats understand the term "free-will" and know that actions have consequences. While most locals understand that it's "Allah's will" and I can do what I want because I'm not responsible for my actions.

[BlueSkye]

There the parents, teachers and the society, but especially fathers, have to step in and give most of us a reality check.


While Neil and Buzz were bouncing around on the moon, this lot you refer to was still on the back of a camel. Fat chance of that happening.

The mind can only develop as far as the society it lives in allows. Autobahn vis a vis SZR. Couple of other examples I can think of, but will probably get banned from this site.

[sispanys ria]

Same problems existed in all western countries some years ago, it's a question of social education. The GCCs developement pace doesn't mean the local society is able to evolve at the same speed. You always learn from your mistakes, and like in any other country, things will change due to experience and not thanks to your comments on this forum.
Each society has its own characteristics (cultural, religious etc...) and I find very cheap to pretend being able to compare with others. The most worring thing is when we export our "mistakes" into developing countries. While tobacco is being drastically controlled in Europe, it is still promoted in the rest of the world, as Mc Donalds' junk food.

I'm still amused to see how many people are here only to complain. Probably that those who are not have better things to do... Too bad to be here and unhappy... life is short and time shouldn't be wasted.

[Thridle Op Des]

Life is especially short when wrapped around a lamp post on the Al Ain road aged 19 and three quarters.

[pool]

Sensible post, syspa.
What year does this region write? 1428 or 1429? Where was Europe, or for that matter the Americas, at that time of their count?
You are absolutely right that each society evolves sooner or later. With the recent globalisation, that is by the way warmly embraced by the developping world, it would just demonstrate a tiny little brin of intelligence if such societies would learn faster and not make the same mistakes. Back in time there was no example at hand to show which road not to take.
I am not complaining, as you insinuate, but merely wondering why on earth some societies refuse to learn from others mistakes and continue to evoque that it needs much more time to evolve. It didn't take much time to buy the Lambo and run after the blondes, did it? Furthermore it buggers my mind to see that the same societies, when settling as expats up north, have nothing better to do than try to impose their values there. Only mentioned that because you said something about exporting "mistakes"...;)

I don't want to enter into any value debate. I think however that the demonstrated behaviour on local roads is simply savagery and is beyond ANY cultural values. It should be exhonoured in the strongest terms from the local authorities AND society.

[troff]

"A!"
You know, a guy, e' try to pass me on da sidewalk on da right! 'E come up a ramp an' 'e try to go down da sidewalk an' jump da curb... an den 'dere was da 10 or so speed bump along da route going aroun' da American School. What wit dat guy? Der' was a line up to get on Al Wasl about 10 car long and 'e got pinch 'dere anyway.
So, da situation, it can be understood. It is documented: I saw dis' in da paper (not da 7 day rag ting) da odder day:
"According to Dr. Dennis Pearne, a. American psychologist who consults people on matters related to extreme wealth says: "People from all walks break the law, of course. But, for the rich, wrapped in a cocoon of immense comfort, it can be easy to yield to temptation. A sense of entitlement sets in. "I deserve anything I want, I can have anything I want, and I can afford it""
I suppos' dat if e' want to be in front of me dat bad... so be hit. Jus' don' go killing da pedestrians in da meantime...
But den dere was da ex-pat psyco crazy soccer mom 'o did dat too, not so long ago dis summer... pass me on da shoulder in a residential neighbourhood, eh? Actually it was a flat sidewalk-parking ting. I say F*&% it! and I go over da speed bump wit my foot to da floor... she get pinch on da sidewalk... den latter I hexplain to 'er in my very bes' Hinglish dat she was driving like an imbusile an' odder stuff, eh, when latter stuck in traffic at da red light wit me beside 'er... Not a smart move on 'er par' wen I having a bad day, eh?

T

[Oblaaspop]

Troff, I'm sure your post would have been very funny had I been bothered to read past the first sentence............... but frankly I couldn't be arsed!

:hmm:

[BITE System]

On a serious note….I think the authorities need to realise that when someone is behind the wheel of a LANDCRUISER with 90% blacked out windows (or any other big 4x4 ) and they decide to drive with absolutely no regard for the safety of others, they are in effect in charge of a dangerous weapon. It might as well be a gun. No one should be above the law!!! Is it not time that the authorities start enforcing a fair system where by all nationals are accountable for there actions?

[sispanys ria]

I just wonder how many deadly accidents are caused by drunk drivers in UAE... just to compare to what we have in Europe.

I understand it looks stupid not to be able to learn from others, but like for any kids, learning comes from experience, despite warnings. You wont learn that fire burns until you play with it. I guess this will sadly apply to UAE. At least it didn't take as long as us in Europe to get lots of speed radars, which is a good beginning. It's absolutely easy today to have cars fitted with speed limiters, but of course no manufacturer will take the risk to market cars unable to break the speed limits. Many of us (expats) are driving sport cars which is quite curious considering speed limits, radars and traffic... I feel terrible when I see young people dying on the road but I don't see any smartness when all the ladies are driving huge 4x4 to go in the Mall of the Emirates. They just burn 3 times more fuel than other people to reach the place at the same speed... but of course, nobody cares about the environment since it is so cool to be able to burn cheap fuel !

[troff]

"A!"
An 'den der was da one 'habout da guy behin' me on da SZR... Firs' day in da new car an e' set off my, as you say, "parking proximity sensor", in hinglish, at 140 km/hr because e' tailgate! Flailing dishdash an' all da trapping of a classic local driver I 'ear habout... I pull hover... jus as 'e jut into da lane dat I am trying to get hinto to get hout of 'IS way! Psycopat' in a Range Rover, dat.
Decarie got nuttin' on SZR... Dat's a cake walk in YUL. At leas' de're good driver dere.
An anodder tings... Obsplatt, or o ever you are, dis is not for your entertainmen'... Dis is true stuff, eh? Hi don' make it hup, tabernac!
What dat mean, "coulden't be arsed"? I dunno. Hafter all, dis a very serious forum an' heveryting. Better people say wors' ting habout me.
Henyway, I woulden't let dat "arsed" ting get haroun', hif you no wat I mean... 'an hi understan' dat more dan tree period in a row to indicate a pause or "trailing off at da en' hov a idea or sentence" is, 'ow you say, "superflous" or "supernumerary". It's super sumpting, but not correct hinglish punctuation so get it straight. After all, it's your language, level 6 guy.
T

[sispanys ria]

It's super sumpting, but not correct hinglish punctuation so get it straight. After all, it's your language, level 6 guy.

:ok: Great ! Level 6 doesn't mean you are the most understandable (which would be the logic of aviation communication), it just means you are a native speaker (!) no matter you come from Kingston, Texas or Louisiana.

Just to reply to Mullah who seems to be a great poster, the first automated radars were introduced in France around 2005, while, as far as I can remember, those radars were already installed in Switzerland in the early 80's...and I'm sure in Europe people also understood there is money to make about it. I'm glad you can at least enjoy the naked Russian girls, that should make your stay less boring.

[Gp Capt Bhanerjee]

Let's celebrate Darwinism at work.

[TangoUniform]

When one of these idiots comes two cms from my back bumper (and I'm not in the left death lane) I ususally find that my windscreen needs a good washing. That usually backs them off for a few moments. I always get a good chuckle out of watching them put on their windshield wipers and sometimes it even brings a little sanity to them, if only for 30 seconds.

And I always just shake my head at the stupidity, if you will, watching parents drive (no matter what the speed) with children in their laps. In many western "civilizations" one would be ticketed for such actions. But then again, ticketing here seems to happen once a year when registrations come due. Ah, but they say," it's god's will". Well perhaps God had a hand in helping develop child seats and restraints, to prevent the innocent from their savage parents (from whatever nation, east or west their parents are from).:ugh:

[pzu]

Lived/Worked there back when a Dirham was a Riyal!!!

Had 3 small kids girl 5, boy and girl 2 - ALL Blond, locals were fascinated and great with the kids;

However as I worked Offshore, wife found the little darlings a handful down the Souk - so one day she resurrected the 'reins'!!!

Fortunately I was with her and as we wandered through the Gold Souk I noticed the Tension - at first I thought it was due to the 'Political Situation', the Shah had been flexing his muscles - F-4's over the Tombs etc

Stopped in one of the shops where we we were known, and in the course of the conversation the subject of 'Cruelty to Children' came up - yes Our Cruelty!!!

Needless to say the 'reins' came off, but these were/are the sme people who drive like lunatics with kids at the wheel!! (OK no seat belts in those days)

PZU - Out of Africa

Visited the place in the last few years, and after the last time will only travel in Large vehicle - coach etc

[Wiley]

Some will recall the large, graphic photograph and the accompanying sympathetic article in 'Gulf News' a year or two ago telling the tale of woe about a local youth who was killed on his (18th?) birthday - the very day his driver's licence was issued.

He was killed driving his brand new Porsche, a gift from his father. Needless to say, he crashed after losing control of the vehicle at very high speed, (as I suspect any one of us would have done driving such a car the day our licence was issued).

Nowhere in the article was there even a hint that the writer or editor thought this might be an inappropriate first car for a teenager. And anyone who has lived in the Sandpit for any length of time would not find this at all surprising.


In the interest of fair play, I have to say the the so-called 'Soccer Moms/Mums' - 30-something pink-skinned Western female expatriates - (although in a different league to the local lads who tailgate you at 30 centimetres spacing at 120kph), are some of the worst drivers I have ever encountered on Dubai's roads. I particularly "love" the ones who drive like they're the only ones on the road with their "Baby on Board" sticker in the rear windscreen. Driving anywhere near a Dubai school at drop off or pick up times can be a particularly harrowing experience where you should expect the unexpected as "Mom" drops off or picks up Junior.

The local lads have the excuse, however poor, that they don't know better. These female expatriates DO know better but still drive the way they do - because they can.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Warlock: The license plates are Omani. A UAE national kid would have killed himself a lot more spectacularly. Explosion, mushroom cloud, screams...

[GoreTex]

a 20 year old local rammed me the other day, I saw his face just before he rammed me, he did it on purpose, even the police officer was shouting at him 30 min later, I still got the pink slip.

love the statistic btw, you can call it ethnic self cleaning

[NG_Kaptain]

love the statistic btw, you can call it ethnic self cleaning

Love that comment.
The ticketing system is only a money earner,why pay on line? If it really was to be used as a deterrent on as punishment they would make you find your a$$ down at traffic court, wait for the judge then pay your fine, a real inconvenience. I learned that in my youth, will admit was was an irresponsible teenager, but loosing my licence for a month, facing the judge and having to go to traffic school taught me a lesson. I learned, never got another ticket.

[TangoUniform]

Very true, Kaptain. I too learned (learnt) my lesson the same way as well. The problem here would be the judge is probably the uncle of said violator or has a daughter married to violator's third cousin. "Boys will be boys. Just be careful out there, son. Next case...."

[Flying Spag Monster]

It is easy and often tempting to blame local parenting or the local's attitude for the road carnage and appalling statistics amongst locals and their victims. (They generally crash into someone). The locals of the UAE have had technology thrust upon them in a very short time frame. As mentioned previously, two generations ago they where on camels and now they are in Ferraris. That is not a lot of time to develop the responsibilty that goes with that technology. Their society didn't start with the Model T Ford.

If you see a child sitting on the lap of a driver doing 160+ (aka 'arabic airbag') it is not that the driver cares less for their child than you do for yours, or that they love theirs any less. They do it because they are ignorant of the dangers. As a young Spag Monster, I remember leaning over the front seat of Dad's car, unsecured, as we drove down the freeway. Did he not care for me? The awareness simply was not there amongst the public that this was stupid. So how did the risks become known....? The authorities (government) took responsibility and started to educate the populace about the risks and punish the offenders. The lesson was soon learnt. There is no excuse for a society now embracing these new technologies, not to take notice of the lessons learnt from those before them.

This is where the real tragedy lies, the UAE, Dubai in particular can make great claims about their abililty to move oceans, create civilizations, break world records, build the biggest and best, concieve underwater hotels and offer ski slopes in the desert. But what they appear incapable of doing, indeed unwilling to commit to, is to stop their youth from killling themselves. With all this wealth and opportunity, they just simply can't do it.

[divingduck]

The police and society will not enforce the road rules to keep the population of under motivated, over confident, easily led youths at controllable numbers.

Discuss.

[chainsaw]

But what they appear incapable of doing, indeed unwilling to commit to, is to stop their youth from killling themselves. With all this wealth and opportunity, they just simply can't do it.

True, Flying Spag Monster. Also true divingduck! The problem isn't confined to the UAE though!

The MAJOR problem is that many GCC youths are totally incapable AND unwilling to exercise any self-restraint, moderation or socially-responsible conduct whatsoever in most things that they do in public, and in particular, whilst driving. It seems to stem from their having been totally over-indulged and brought-up without any discipline whatsoever. Ever seen them out and about in power boats and/or on jet skis?? Same old problem set I'm afraid!

What's obvious is that the present laws and police aren't providing sufficient deterrents to stop the reckless, self-centred and totally irresponsible behaviour of these idiotic youths. If the road laws allowed for AND enforced the imposition of proper and appropriate penalties, which should include confiscation/destruction of repeat-offenders' vehicles, and/or 'naming and shaming' sanctions to deal with the socially unresponsible behaviour such as that exhibitted by many local youths in motor vehicles, then it may be a start to partially solve to the problem.

Fully solving the problem will be harder, because it will involve (amongst other things) a really concerted effort to change the local mindset that prevails in those youths from the 'I, me, myself, personally' self-centred, invincible, bullet-proof approach to everything they do, into a more socially-responsible, considerate, better-mannered and more agreeable way of behaving in public!

PS. Mullah...burqa king :eek: Didn't think the local guys wore those things! :}

[captainsmiffy]

How can you deal with a people that just cannot see the error of their ways? I had a young local girl skid past me (I was on a red, stopped) the other week at a speed that hitherto was where v1 should be called! She went sideways through the junction, struck the kerb, mounted the pavement sideways, took out two embedded metal posts, skidded thirty yards sideways through sand before coming to rest in a fence and embedded in a hut!! I paced her skidmarks (no, the ones on the road!) and they were 500 feet long! The UK highway code says that an emergency stop from 112kph should be accomplished in 315 feet, including reaction time! And that is without sideways drag, kerb and post impacts and 30 yards of send, not to mention the fence and hut retardation as well!! One can only surmise at the true speed at which she was driving when the anchors were applied.....I was somewhat curt with her in the debrief.

Met her the next day, with her father, god bless him. He ended up telling me to get out of his country and that I was not welcome! I reminded him that my family would have been on a slab this morning and all he could respond with was 'good'. Local paper printed my tirade but edited out this last para.....heads in the sand!!!

[Lord Flashhart]

It extends to water too. The under day some friends and I were having dinner and drinks on our boat near the Le meridian, when an overloaded (with local kids) ski boat came roaring past towing a tube. Needless to say the wake was most disturbing to our dining experience. My attempts to tell them to go elsewhere were met with abuse back from the idiots. What is the problem I hear you say, with some louts in a boat skiing and towing past us? Well it was at NIGHT. Yes pitch black no moon. That was the amazing thing. Farking idiots.

[barkingboris]

The last 2 posts on the lunacy and stupidity of these locals are spot on.
The "get out of my country attitude" just shows their real colours.
Let them all die ,just please dont kill innocent people.Hey thats a thought ,this place would be kinda nice without them

[alwayzinit]

The solution to local lads killing themselves and others in fast cars is really simple, as with "born again bikers" in the UK the horsepower of the machines they are allowed to drive is physically limited by a shunt in the exhaust system.

That way you can ride or drive any flash motor you want but it has the perfrormance of a shopping trolley!:E

Only trouble is that it will not be applied or enforced.:ugh:

Alwayz

[Rule3]

It is obvious that you caused her to crash, because you were in her country :ugh:and you stopped at a red light.:=

[sispanys ria]

You can't blame anybody when some people who never lived out of their village are racists and idiots. This is valid for any nationality. The lack of education, open mind and experience can easily explain this.
What disturbs me is when I read some comments from expatriates, and especially pilots who are supposed to be little bit more educated, open minded and experienced about the "global village".
If some of you are concerned (I understand why) by SOME local driving skills, it can be expressed in an adult and polite way. When it goes to Darwin selection and that some "stupid local morons that deserve to die" expressions are used, it is pure primal racism which shouldn't be tolerated by decent people over this forum. I just stopped wondering why so unhappy people are still working here, but at least try to express yourself in a way that would show your education matches your profession requirements.
Thank you for your understanding.

[Lord Flashhart]

You can't blame anybody when some people who never lived out of their village are racists and idiots. This is valid for any nationality. The lack of education, open mind and experience can easily explain this.
So Ria, you are saying that the locals are racists, but that you can't blame them for being racist.

f some of you are concerned (I understand why) by SOME local driving skills, it can be expressed in an adult and polite way.

When you try that in the field you are met with abuse and threats from the locals.

When it goes to Darwin selection and that some "stupid local morons that deserve to die" expressions are used, it is pure primal racism

More like frustration and fear from the near death experiences at the hand of these local idiots, and the stunning silence from the authorities who are supposed to mitigate these threats. I assure you there are plenty of idiots from our home countries who are worthy of Darwin awards.

Thank you for your understanding.

[goneeast]

I had to laugh yesterday (because noone was hurt), local in 4x4 tank ignores fact that I'm on the roundabout 5 feet from him as he pulls out without a single glance.. ( its why i drive automatics,, foot always hovering by brake). 10 seconds later he is wiped out on other side of roundabout by another local driving a bigger tank, who also didnt bother looking before driving on.. classic.

[fatbus]

I get rear ended and the pink slip ( his fault , but he speaks the language), I call that racism

[fatbus]

LR3 I know exactly how you feel

[OMDB-PiLoT]

One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic. -Joseph Stalin

There are all kinds of drivers here in Dubai. Todays news paper talks about 5 deaths in just one accident involving a van. The other day it was a pedestrian. All these tragedies end up as a statistic, which has no effect on the general public driving here. I simply dont understand the need for speed! I lost a friend in a car accident, and know of a girl who's still learning to walk after 2 years of her horrific accident.

[sispanys ria]

Hey Sispanys,
You are all a bunch of racist, hatefilled lunatics on the road and I now laugh when ever I hear of more local road deaths as it means the road is just that bit safer for the rest of us.First of all your wording is not acceptable to me, and for your information I'm not local. I already witnessed a lot of road accidents involving drunk drivers and there is nothing smarter or less dangerous in this driving attitude that probably exist in your own country. Local drivers are not more or less dangerous just on an origin basis and I'm sure you are not stupid enough to mix these things. Same applies to European drivers. Some of them are dangerous drunk criminals, some not. No matter you smoke shisha or drink beer, stupidity has no nationality, and please don't be so proud to enjoy the death of anybody, that's so mean !

I guess he thought that my life was not worth much as he forced me into the dirt at 130kph.
It was either that or a head on with a truck.How can you be facing a truck if you are on a normal path ? Munsandam is a nice place that has to be reached at a peaceful pace, I don't understand how you could be pushed to choose between dirt and truck if you were not overtaking a car.

By the way there is no road on the way to Munsadam where you can legally drive 130 kph... do you mean you were speeding ?

[Scooby Don't]

sispanys ria - while I don't agree in whole with LR3's wording or opinion, your head is in the sand if you cannot understand how someone can be driven off the road. Can you not see that if someone in the opposite direction overtakes, he can leave you with no place to go except for the ditch or the wrong lane???? Equally someone in your direction could overtake YOU, then brake for no good reason, again leaving you with a choice of hitting the back of him, hitting the ditch, or driving into the wrong lane.

While it would be wrong to say that all locals are bad drivers, it is equally wrong to regard drunk driving as the sole excuse for deaths on the roads here. The vast majority of expats would not dare drive when drunk, even if they would happily drive after 2 pints of beer in their homes countries (where that is usually just under the legal limit).

How about taking a step back and realising that bad driving is a problem here, and powerful cars in the hands of inexperienced drivers makes that problem worse. Some nationalities appear more willing than others to tailgate at speed, turn without looking or signalling, and to drive in an aggressive fashion. However much we may wish to avoid that conclusion and the inevitable stereotyping involved, the evidence is reinforced every day.

[sispanys ria]

Scooby, when I mentioned drunk drivers I was referring to foreign countries where lots of people are also dying on the roads, not because of crazy driving but for alcohol. I just meant there is no point to say that a guy is more dangerous than another just because one is from UAE while the other might be a nasty european boozer.

I am not pretending that LR3 wasn't pushed out of the road, I just asked for more info to understand how he could be pushed to face a truck and exceed speed limits because of this mighty local driver...

[Scooby Don't]

Well, bad as drunk driving is, apparently it's not as bad as bad driving.
This is a copy and paste from Drive and Stay Alive -- Home Page (http://www.driveandstayalive.com)

In 2003, there were 7,397 serious traffic accidents in the UAE, 873 deaths & over 10,000 injuries. Relative to the number of vehicles on the road, UAE has six times more deaths from road traffic accidents per year than the USA & Europe.

If you remove the deaths caused in Europe and the USA by drunk drivers and assume (this is a huge assumption, and frankly I include it more for amusement than anything else...) that NONE of the deaths in the UAE were caused by local drunk drivers, then the UAE fares even worse in this comparison.

[sispanys ria]

If you want to look at the numbers it's also interesting to check the evolution.
The number of registered cars in UAE reached 1 million in 1999 with 9000 crashes and 900 deaths.
End 2007 we had 1,7 millions of registered cars, 6800 crashes and 830 deaths.
In addition, since the 1st of march and the increase of minimum fine in Dubai, the amount of deadly accident decreased by 14% (compared to other Emirates).
It takes time to change bad habits, but I'm not sure western countries did evolve faster.
30 years ago being drunk or not wearing the seat belt wasn't a problem in Europe.

[Jors Troolie]

It ishan indispotable fact that drinken......drunken driversh cause 19.772% of all road accshidents. Shurely thish means you sober buggers should get off our roadsh and leave us in pieces.......peace? We have way less accidentsh than you lot!

P.S. My boss din't know I drank until I shobered up once!

[TangoUniform]

Five dead on SZR. But according to the chief of police or whatever the title here is, it is the fault of company that hired the driver. You see if THE COMPANY had just given proper instruction and education to the driver (rest his soul) all would be ok. No mention by the head gumba of the police that if there were some decent law enforcement on the roads.....Oh well, ain't never goin' to happen. Just shift the blame. But all hell breaks loose if a couple is found to be engaging on the beach in "inappropriate behavior"...front page news, editorials, letters to the newspaper. But carnage on the highways...biz as usual.

Ya'll be careful out there, ya hear.

[mensaboy]

I find it hard to believe anyone is defending the driving practices of many people in Dubai.
Syspa.. you state, ''Local drivers are not more or less dangerous just on an origin basis and I'm sure you are not stupid enough to mix these things.''

I know for a fact that driving skills and attitudes are often a direct result of 'origin basis'

Even the statistics prove it. What was the latest??..... 15% Emirati drivers and 80% involvement in fatal accidents. This is not one of those statistics manipulated to lead to an otherwise contestable opinion. It is irrefutable evidence of what any sane individual who has experienced driving in Dubai, already knows. I would even wager that the TRUE statistics are much more conclusive.

As far as drinking and driving goes in other countries.......... It is not only socially unacceptable (which says alot), it is illegal. In Dubai, it is socially acceptable to drive like a moron.

There are 2 reasons this Dubai attitude must be addressed. And I believe it is ALL about attitude by the way.
1. They are killing innocent people each and every day in Dubai.
2. They are killing themselves and in particular their youth.

I am not talking just about the inability to remain in the center of one's lane, or the lack of use of indicators, or the barging into any space available even if it delays or hinders an entire line of traffic, or the overall lack of courtesy. I am also referring to the erratic lane changes at high speed, the lack of knowledge regarding basic physics of a vehicle and yes I'll say it again, ATTITUDE !

It is true though that expats (sadly usually expat wives) drive in Dubai in a different manner than in their homeland. It is a temptation hard to resist for some. Rudeness and ignorance breeds more rudeness and ignorance. If anyone demonstrated the Dubai driving attitude in my homeland, they would eventually get dragged from their car and taught a lesson. Of course it usually would not get that far as the Police would have done their job already.

The only thing that will change driving in Dubai is if the Police watch for, apprehend and then arrest or charge individuals who are putting themselves and others at risk due to their stupidity. Due to the 'CLASS' system in place, that will never happen.

The problem is ATTITUDE. The answer is ENFORCEMENT. Neither of which will change in the foreseeable future in Dubai.

Syspanis Ria, I truly hope that no one you know or love gets killed by one of these idiots on the road. I know you would be questioning your beliefs when the cops handed YOU or your family the pink slip as the ambulance drove away.

[Flying Spag Monster]

Synapsis, I will give you credit for sticking to your guns but it is defending the indefencible. You can argue that evolution takes time and that other countires took years to solve their traffic deaths and you would be right. But the UAE has the benefit of that evolution but choses to ignore it and do it all again for themselves.

There are three main causes of motor fatalities around the world (ignoring IEDs) Alcohol, Fatigue and Speed. In the UAE the first cause is greatly minimised by the law and the punishment for breaking it, the second is a function of geography, generally speaking drivers don't drive far enough on a regular basis for it to be a factor. That leaves the three main causes in the UAE as Speed, Speed and Speed. If the influence of drinking can be minimised by the law why isn't there the will to slow these jokers down by the same means? Perhaps a fatalistic culture would explain some of it.

[Scooby Don't]

I don't agree that speed is "one of the three main causes" of road deaths. Innappropriate speed is certainly a killer. I would feel a great deal safer though, if the police would deal with unsignalled and unnecessary lanes changes, unsafe pulling out from intersections, barging into spaces that don't exist prior to the barging, slowing down to 40 km/h in the middle lane of SZR/Emirates Road while trying to work out if this is the right exit, etc etc etc, rather than just putting up the odd mobile speed camera.

[Wiley]

I saw the aftermath of the 5 x fatal accident on the Al Gahroud Bridge approach road two days ago quite soon after it occurred. Not to speak ill of the dead - (I'm asuming the driver of the minivan was one of the dead - if he survived, with roof of the van ripped completely off, I'd love to know how) - but I've had some bad scares on more than one occasion by minivan drivers who were driving, with a 8-10 passengers on board, like absolute maniacs. (I could have ended that last sentence totally politically incorrectly, if accurately, by saying "...like locals".)

I may be completely off target here when I say that I suspect so many of these bus drivers drive this way because they're under totally unrealistic "get to destination by xxx" deadlines by their employers and probably get penalised if they are late. Can anyone refute this?

[alwayzinit]

Though LR3's wording may not be sufficiently PC for some his sentiments and emotions are completly understandable.

Having had a local guy leave 35m skid mark on Al Wasl before remodelling the back of our minivan(that we were stopped in at a RED traffic light:ugh:)

After I was given the pink slip :hmm: he had the gall to say how glad he was that we were all ok! How thoughtful and kind.

Had a local FO show me,very proudly, a video of him doing 300kph in his 'Vet..............I know it was 300kph as he was filming the speedo as he was driving the flipping car, Jeez.

He was somewhat surprised by my reaction after I watched it when I told him that he was an F' ing Tw#t and to get something alot slower before he killed someone.

But to be fair to the young lads and lasses who have these super quick motors, if I could have afforded and insured one when I was 19 I would have got one too, thank God I had no money then:E.

[sispanys ria]

LR3 I agree with your right to be pissed off. I'm just trying to prevent confusion since locals can also be very dangerous in Dubai when they are over 60 and drive below 60... Just keep the things at a smart level without making any generalization and avoiding inappropriate offending wording.

The dangerous young local driver's issue is a fact, I was just trying to keep the things reasonable before we blame them for driving cars.

[BYMONEK]

What's with the pink slip crap that everyone's getting. If someone rear ends you, it's their fault, regardless of nationality. It's happened twice with my wife and both occassions the other drivers got the pinkee! ( one a local & the other a Lebanese)

A similar thing happened last year to a friend when he was shafted (literally), but he refused the pink slip and insisted it be dealt down at the station. It was and the slips were changed after a little shouting by the senior station officer. Most police that pitch up are too afraid to cause a stink so side with the local or, in some cases, Arabic speaker.

Unless you're in a hurry, stand your ground. The message might eventually get through!

To be honest, my few dealings with the police have not been a problem. They were courteous and efficient. Maybe I was lucky.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

You outta watch out for those Lebos rear ending your missus Habib.... http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-024.gif

SyB :zzz:

[Wiley]

Young locals driving like madmen is nothing new to Dubai. Long term Ppruners might recall 'The Caravan', which used to be on the Humour Page (when PPrune had one). 'The Caravan' was written a LONG time ago. Here's an excerpt about "phor-wheal-dryves":Phorwealdryves were the swift and sprightly steeds on which the young warriors of Knoteetinghamm jousted daily, often to the death, upon the dunes around their scattered tents. It was usually a timid, almost passive creature. However, the moment a young Knoteetinghammi warrior cast his thighs across its saddle, it became like unto a raging bull, unable to bear the sight of any other phorewealdryve unless that animal be far behind it. To see other phorwealdryves in line upon the desert sands would send it into a slavering, eyeball-rolling frenzy and plunge headlong past them, its two bright eyes flashing, until it found itself at the head of the queue… or smitten against the flank of another phorwealdryve, itself almost certainly racing to the head of yet another oncoming queue.

Where the phorwealdryves were hastening to, no one knew, for they seemed to go nowhere but in endless circles seeking out more queues of phorwealdryves to jump. In the market square, Gull Fnewz, the Cherif’s trusted herald, expounded almost daily upon varying theories passed to him by visitors from many lands who witnessed this strange and fearsome trait. Although still unproven to this day, it is believed by many learned scholars that the phorwealdryves and their young riders were in search of their final resting place, the fabled Doubleparkoutsidetheshwamashoppe.)

The only time you'll find a car driving slowly on Sheikh Zed Rd is when the driver is too deep into his (or all too often her) phone conversation to maintain warp 5 speed, and it would appear to be obligatory to wander from lane to lane as you gesticulate with your free hand - (i.e., the one not holding the phone - the one that should be holding the ****ing steering wheel!). To prove that that is no a new problem either, the ancient scroll that was 'The Caravan' mentioned that as well.To date, little is known of the gods and idols worshipped by the people of ancient Knoteetinghamm – with one notable exception: undoubtedly, there was widespread adoration of the humble conch shell. It is obvious from the scrolls translated to date that the small black palm-sized conch shell was venerated with deep religious fervour by the young and not so young warriors of Knoteetinghamm – and their women folk as well. Mention of it has been found frequently in a number of the other scrolls only partially translated to date. Other names for the conch shell god sometimes appear, like No-kia and Mo-torola, but the favourite by far seems to have been the tongue twisting Majornogoitem. The origins of this last name remain obscure, but it would seem that no warrior dared approach his phorwealdryve without his conch shell god clasped firmly to his right ear.

Other scholars studying these ancient scrolls have opined that the conch shell was not in fact a god, but used only to cover the right ear from a stranger’s gaze. They believe that in the Knoteetinghamm of yore, the display of the male’s right ear in public was the greatest of all social taboos. Some, seeing even less significance in this custom, believe that the warriors of Knoteetinghamm simply liked the rushing sound of the waves filling their ears as they rode their phorewealdryves upon the arid dunes. Whatever the reasons, religious taboo or not, one thing is certain: for any warrior of any age to ride upon the back of his phorwealdryve in public without his conch shell clasped tightly to his right ear was plainly unthinkable and against all custom and good taste.)

[chainsaw]

The Caravan........what a classic! Particularly it's description of FOs:

Yasser Wateverusay smiled his most ingratiating smile. "Sire, the effoh beith the poorest excuse for a man - the lowliest of lowly castes that willst worketh for the scraps and leavings fromst Thy table. However, they beith a necessary evil on every caravan."

"Effohs. We have heardeth not this strange name before. Whence commeth it frometh?"

"Sire, the effoh beith the caravan's effluent orderly."

"Effluent orderly? Dost thou meanest he collecteth the **** from the autocamel?"

"Yea, Sire, but not just from the autocamel. The effoh's lot in life beith to taketh **** from all quarters as he walketh close behind the autocamel in the dust."

:}

[Scooby Don't]

Please, please, somebody either post it in full or give us a url!!!

[goneeast]

That took some translating for me!! How very true though.. some things will never change around these parts eh? :ok:

[Che Guevara]

Wiley :D

Thank you for reminding us of the Caravan once more!
Can we have the rest of it sire?

A welcome break from the subject that rules our lives and indeed has changed that of many. I personally sport a titanium femur courtesy of one of these village idiots loosing control of his car at high speed, wiping out a cyclist and finally ploughing into my car travelling in the opposite direction. No, it has never been to court, even though the unfortunate cyclist is no longer with us...I guess it is the 'class system' another poster alluded to or perhaps simply tribalism, to put it nicely. Incidentally that occured in Bahrain so the UAE is certainly not alone here, everything you all describe here happens over there, it exactly the same by all accounts.

Cheers

[Wiley]

I understand the original is still in the PPrune archives. Perhaps someone a bit more computer literate than I am could find it and post the URL here.

Or better yet, Danny might be convinced to surrender a bit of bandwidth and re-instate the Humour Page.

Re-reading 'The Caravan' today, I'm amazed at its timelessness. Delete Ozmates and insert Seppos and it could have been written two weeks ago (although with McDonald Douglas now gone, 'Parmbeich sur Mer' [Palm Beach by the Sea] might require translation for the young'uns.) Ceeaddlewash and Wun-twoloose are still with us, as are the Parkhir bin Phen tribe.

And of course, Marcel Hard Sell and we cameleers:“Marcelhardcel of Wun-twoloose saith that first the rider must learneth the many devious ways of the beast.”

“But how dost he learneth these ways?”

“There beith men who canst teacheth our young warriors these mysteries. They art knownst as cameleers.”

“Dost thou speaketh of the rabble who leadest the beasts of the foreigners’ caravans?”

“Verily, Sire.”

“But… but to a man, they seemith a rowdy, ill-bred caste who causeth no end of trouble. Whilst their camels resteth, dost they not frequenth only the lowliest sherbet stands and pursueth maidens of the illest repute?”

“That beist so, Sire. It beith widely said that in any city along the far-flung caravan routes, should a stranger follow a cameleer, he willst surely findeth the cheapest sherbet and comely maidens of the lowliest kind.”

“And thou sayest these devilish foreign cameleers be needeth here, to live amongst our people in Knoteetinghamm?”

“Yea, Sire, but only until they have shown our own young warriors the ways of the camel.”

[EGGW]

I have made a sticky of the 1st scroll Wiley. Perhaps we could try and find out there in the sands, a new scroll, with updated details. It needs to be discovered.

Also found this which may amuse :E

:)HANDBOOK FOR DRIVING IN DUBAI:)

1. If your road map is more than a few weeks old, throw it out and get a new one.

2. If you are in Rashidiya and your map is one day old, then it is already obsolete.

3. Forget the traffic rules you learned elsewhere. Dubai has its own version of traffic rules, which can be summarized as "Hold
on and pray!"

4. If it is your priority to cross, forget it and wait.

5. There is no such thing as a dangerous high-speed chase in Dubai . Everyone drives like that.

6. When you plan to get a new car, ask first about its acceleration from 80 to 160 Km/h (recommended: 3 seconds). Very

important if you frequently use the Emirates Road

7. All directions start with Sheikh Zayed Road , which has no beginning and no end.

8. The morning rush hour is from 5:00 AM to 1:00 PM, The evening rush hour is from 1:00 PM to 10:00 PM.

9. Thursday's rush hour starts Wednesday morning.

10. If you slow down at a yellow light, you will be rear-ended and then given a ticket by the Dubai Police.

11. If you are the first one at the intersection, when the light turns green ignore the car honking behind you and count to five to
avoid crashing into one of the cars running the red light in cross-traffic.

12. Construction on all main roads is a way of life and a permanent form of entertainment. (Sorry for the inconvenience)

13. All unfamiliar sights are explained by the phrase, "Oh, we must be in Sharjah!"

14. Car horns are actually toys for big boys.

15. Anyone in a Land Cruiser, Tuned Patrol, or Mercedes with tinted windows has the right of way. Period!

16. If you are driving a Corolla, Sunny, or another small Japanese car, stay on the far right lane. No comment!

17. Most roads mysteriously change names as you cross intersections.

18. To ask directions, you must have good knowledge of Hindi/ Malayalam

19. A trip across town will take a minimum of four hours, although Sheikh Zayed Road has an unposted minimum speed of 150
Km/h.

20. It is sobering to realize that local Arabs are taught how to drive by Pakistanis.

21. 18 wheeler trucks are one of the fastest vehicles in Dubai; they can do 120 Km/h on Hatta-Oman Road when fully loaded.

22. The minimum acceptable speed on the Emirates Road is 160 km/h. Anything less is considered downright sissy.

23. Al Khail Road is Dubai 's daily version of NASCAR RACING.

24. Dubai Autodrome has a new extension: The Emirates Road.

25. WELCOME TO THE UAE!

[woodja51]

He must have been off the gas a tad- I've had mine to 330 and increasing - but got scared after about 15 secs at that speed - but it was out on the open road with no one else around...couldnt do that anywhere else in the world with out going to jail. Been here almost nine years and agree that the roads are deadly - but cant see anyway to fix it really as too much revenue comes from speeding fines to want to take folks off the road permanently for being stoopid. Woodj