SMS and CASA

[kimwestt]

Hi all.
Anyone got any idea of the likelihood of CASA using an SMS (Safety Management System) report, completed and forwarded in good faith, believing that the right thing had been done, and the correct actions completed, to use as evidence for prosecutions and fines?
Rumour has it that this is the case!!
Or am I being naive, and trust and believe that CASA is really there to help, assist, and generally work with industry to further and improve aviation?:ugh::confused::rolleyes:

[Bendo]

WHY would you send CASA an admission that a rule had been breached?

IF the incident/accident/potential hazard actually caused or otherwise resulted in an Immediately Reportable Matter or a Routine Reportable matter, you are legally obliged to lodge a report as per the AIPs.

A decent SMS should otherwise leave intrernal matters for internal review.

We have a "Safety and Compliance Management System" - not a "Let's dob ourselves in and get ass-raped" system...

The very desirable ideals of the perfect "no-blame" safety reporting system have to exist alongside the political realities of CASA, unfortunately. :ugh:

[Mach E Avelli]

Depends I s'pose. Let's say a pilot submitted a report that indicated serious deficiencies in the organisation. Let's further say that the organisation did not take steps within a reasonable time to fix the problem. Absolute grounds for prosecution. Not against the pilot, but certainly against the organisation. For CASA to do anything less would be remiss.
However the first time they shoot the messenger will be the last time anyone volunteers a report.

[kimwestt]

Exactly !!!

[R555C]

I wouldn't worry to much about it. CASA can go through SMS records when they audit an operator so they will find out eventually. Only report what you are legally obliged to and all should be okay.(Someone might be able to correct me)

Ideally an SMS should be an integral part of a companies operation and not a stand alone item. It needs to functional and show continuous review and improvement process for all aspects of the operation.

[flying-spike]

I know in the present climate it is pretty hard not to be cynical but you will find that in a sound SMS there is no such thing as a no-blame policy but a balance between a sound reporting culture and personal responsibiity. Even CASA would know that to shoot the messenger is completely counter productive to have a good reporting culture however using a report as a shield against action in very serious violations would probably not be tolerated and be seen through. (i.e. transparent)

I suggest a thorough study of ICAO SMS elements and the Transport Canada SMS attributes would would give you an idea of what will come when 119 comes out.

[sox6]

Flying spike

I agree there needs to be a pragmatic balance between holding people accountable for their actions and welcoming reporting of mistakes as postive.

You mind this less than complementary thread on the canadian situation of interest:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/rumours-news/325797-sweeping-condemnation-transport-canadas-approach-aviation-safety.html

Or this one on the Concorde prosecution:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/rumours-news/333608-five-people-face-concorde-crash-trial.html
Though a failure worthy of prosecution does suggest the reguloator has failed too.

There is a very persuasive arguement that an SMS will only work if there is the right culture of safety:
http://www.flightsafety.org/asw/may08/asw_may08_p12-17.pdf

[flying-spike]

Well said, however I would also say that a good SMS goes beyond the reporting of the legal minimum but encourages the reporting of incidents and events that may otherwise have resulted in a serious (reportable) incident, and of course the company actively pursuing root cause and putting in corrective action.

[flying-spike]

You are exactly right. I am not saying the TC approach is perfect and if anybody reads those reports they will see remarkable and tragic similarities with recent Australian history. I just hopE that our industry not only learns from our mistakes but also those of TC and just as recently the FAA