RAAF Flight Screening Programme

[Captain Sand Dune]

Use this as an advantage when going to the board - if they question your decision asto becoming a Defence Force Pilot, I'm only 18/19, still young, and becoming a pilot for the defence force is a major decision in life, especially with the 11yr contract, the void, 7month gap was for me to take a step back and reflect on my life-path before going through with these big decisions.
I know you're trying to help here, but I reckon that approach will be taken as being indecisive. "Indecisive" could be interpreted as a lack of motivation.
Believe me when I say you will need 100% motivation for this course.

If you really want it, then there is no decision.

[LtDan]

Hey there lads.

Long time reader, first time poster here. First off I'd like to say thanks for this thread, it has been very helpful in preparation for my upcoming flight screening program on the 14th of March at Tamworth.

I've done a Red Baron flight and have one more scheduled before I go and I think they're going to be invaluable in the way it has prepared me for how a plane handles... and also for the motion! I was airsick the first time (no chucks, just queasy) haha I thought I was done for. But the instructor assured me it was normal, especially because it was very cloudy and we couldn't even see the horizon when doing rolls. I would definitely recommend the experience to anyone in the Sydney area thinking of going for the job.

A quick question I have though. I just had root canal done (about 10 minutes ago) and I'm wondering if this is going to be affected by flying? Has anyone else had dental work within a couple of weeks of the flying I'm to expect at FSP? Hopefully the altitude or G's don't affect it. Should be able to tell on Tuesday when I go for one more quick flight.

Anyway, one more quick thanks and hopefully see some of you in the actual forces.

Cheers,
Dan

[fatmungus]

Hey guys,
This is my first post on here but I have spent a long time reading (about 2 months) and would just like to thank everyone that has contributed. There are too many names to mention, but without you all I am sure my selection process wouldn't be going so well. I think the most important thing is to be more prepared than required as it is a high profile job.

I have just passed the specialist testing stage :O and awaiting assessment day :eek:. So for anyone who needs a leg up on spec testing, I am happy to oblige. Also anyone with any tips on assessment day (other than already stated), drop us a line too.

Hope to see all of you around real soon :ok:

[LtDan]

Just completed my third day of flying. I've got two days of doubles (2 flights a day) coming up so a lot to study! It's been pretty hectic so far but I'm loving it. Can't wait to hit up the Cap10 next week. If you get to go, you'll enjoy yourself but just be pepared to be pushed to your limits both mentally and emotionally. Some instructors are quite firm in their corrections of mistakes while flying haha... ouch my head!

Roller out.

[jonosplace]

Hi guys,

Long time reader, first time poster. This forum is a great resource.

There are a few threads with very useful advice on the Flight Screening Program and OSB - in particular this lengthy one. In all the browsing, however, I haven't come across many answers to one question - what does a typical day's schedule at Flight Screening look like? E.g. wake up times, downtime, amount of classroom theory etc. Is anyone able to advise?

I understand, for example, a typical day at BFTS looks like:
0630 Brekky
0750 Morning brief
0800-1650 Ground school/flying
1650 Stand down
1800 Dinner
1900-2200 Study period

Is FSP quite similar?

Browsing the threads, I've seen just one quote from dmcleod 11/07/08,
"There will be plenty of time to study. You do 1 or 2 flight max a day the rest you have to sit in the common room and wait for everyone to finish. There are also more mass breifs and the Navy do a breif aswell." Any further advice (on this or pertaining to FSP/OSB in general) would be much appreciated.

Lastly, I'm on the FSP/OSB for May 2 - 16, so if anyone wants to get in touch, share ideas or just chat, let me know!

Cheers,
Jonathan

[Mark_1990]

Mate,

I understand where you are coming from, I was in that situation as well at one stage. I recently attended FSP for RAAF pilot selection, found it wasn't for me but his a general idea of what you could expect.

Day 1/2 - Arrive at FSP in Tamworth, walk or catch a taxi to the residential house to get a brief from the owners and they will give to you
your allocated room key and advice you of all rules and regs in regard to your stay. At night or the following day first thing in the morning you will be given an introduction brief (4 hours roughly) up in the FSP buildings and be handed your pretty orange jumpsuit, study notes, headsets, kneeboard and parachute sheep skin. The rest of the day you do what you will or start studying your notes if your that eager. Generally the Sunday though is a day off.

Monday - Friday - you will generally be flying and throughout the week you'll probably get a day or two with two flights on that day, otherwise it's only one flight/day. Breakfast does vary, and I believe during the winter months its a bit later, maybe 6:00 onwards, and regardless if your flight is at 1:00pm that day, you need to be in the common room at 8:00am along with your fellow flight screeners. There you will generally study, browse the web, or be a social butterfly with everyone else (communication is essential, don't want to be your own team). During the flying, a few people do get airsick, and a good proportion of my course did get either airsick or ground sick haha. Even a guy with 150 hours had a bit of a chunder. Instructors are looking for you to overcome it though, even though you might feel like you want to die.

So your in the common room, and your flights coming up in 45 minutes. You'd by this stage be suited up (jumpsuit, sunnies, hat etc) and be making your way into the instructors rooms where you will do a 10 minute or so pre-flight brief. You'll then make your way into the parachute room to get your parachute and armrest if necessary and then make your way into the operations room to get your cushions (if necessary) and wait for your aircraft if it's still out flying. You'd hop in the aircraft and on your first flight the instructor will give you all the nuts and bolts on adjusting seats, seatbelt harnesses and rudder peds. Then you fly for maybe generaly 1 - 1.5 hours (more in the CAP10 Mudry in aerobatics). Come back from your flight, get rid of your equipment, and meet in the instructors room for a de-brief (and if you flown quite **** ..... expect a battering depending on instructor). Then back into the common room where you will wait until all your mates finish flying (unless your told otherwise).

Come home, shower, go to dinner, then the rest of the night is open to whatever you want to do (play football, tennis, swimming etc), but probably the best idea would be to allocate that time to study. Personally i found the experience to be uncomfortable because there was a lot on the line and you just want to be the best you possibly can. That won't happen without a lot of study. On the monday of the first week you do get given a model aircraft to which you need to build with the rest of your group. Throughout this week you'd also have 3 briefs and a brief from a navy/army dude trying to talk you into joining them.

Second week, more CT4 flight, a few CAP ten flights (5 if your in the advanced, 3 if basic) and then 2 simulator rides. Then obviously OSB on thursday/friday. Home on the saturday :)

Cheers,
Mark

[cadetkid]

Hey everyone,

I have my Spec Testing for pilot on monday, and have been studying as much as I can for the maths component of it, which is the part that I am most worried about.

I have had a chat to a few failed applicants, aswell as a guy at ADFA who is currently studying to be a pilot, but none of them seem to remember exactly what type of maths is in the testing?

I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what I should study, as I am hardcore determined to become an ADF Pilot, and would not relish having to wait a year before resitting.

Thanks

[jonosplace]

Mark,

Thankyou very much, you've been immensely helpful. What little I already knew meshes accurately with your description; at the same time you've added much greater depth to my understanding.

Just an aside - do you think having a car up there is useful, particularly for weekends and social activities? I live in Sydney so I think it's a 6 hour drive, but if having a car up there isn't particularly useful, I'm much happier to fly.

Lastly, would you be open to elaborating why you found it wasn't for you, and purely out of interest, what you're thinking of doing now?

[Mark_1990]

Jono,

It's not a problem. It is pretty good to have a car there , generally you won't use it between monday - friday, but on weekends you might choose to go out and not want to pay $30 for a cab ride into town, then back again. There were a few guys on my course that brought their cars, so i didn't have to go out of my way and catch a cab if i wanted to head into town. Really it's up to you, but over my stay down in Tamworth we only went into town a few times.

I just found the training and tempo not so suited to my personality, but push through and go there with the right attitude, if you find it isn't you then that's life, if you love it then your laughing. I'm actually in my second year doing a Bachelor of Aviation and Graduate Diploma in Flight Management up here in Brisbane, hoping to get into the Qantas Pilot cadetship at the end of this year.

Send us a message if you any others questions, i'd be more than happy to help out.

Mark

[jonosplace]

Cheers Mark for your thoughts. I wish you all the best with your Av/FM degree and with getting the QANTAS cadetship later this year! Will let you know how my end goes.

[Roller Merlin]

Guys and Gals....

it is wise to read again Captain Sand Dune's comments above....don't make it too difficult on yourselves.

If you want it, go for it
Be prepared
Be yourself
Go with the flow, and most importantly
HAVE FUN

Basic Military flying training is all about "KISS" (Keep is simple stupid!) - just focus on the basics and apply them in the air. Build on them next time. Having fun keeps head clear - otherwise you clog up with detail and lose the big picture.


RM

[getoutofvegas]

Hi Peoples,

Very interesting and useful information! I am currently awaiting to have my eyes checked and then i'll hopefully be off to Tamworth for FSP.
I was just wondering if anybody knows what is involved with the Paper Board?? I haven't heard much about this stage at all, I was thinking that it may be used to rank everyone against each other or rather is it to check and verify all the information that we have sent in during the selection process. This would be a a pain because of the time and effort (and money) that went into getting copies of this information.
Also for those of you who have sat through a OSB before, what types of maths questions do they throw in throughout your interview?

Thanks, DJ

[Roller Merlin]

I was thinking that it may be used to rank everyone against each other or rather is it to check and verify all the information that we have sent in during the selection process.


It is both. The outcome of the paper board is to select those candidates on paper most likely to succeed, and invite them to FSP.

Candidates are placed in a predictive band which is the result of all the gathered information and their performance and success factors being calculated into a score. That being said, the board is still a human process as the very experienced assessors carefully examine all aspects of the candidates performance. You should not worry about this stage at all. It is a system that puts all acceptable candidates in a pool and "creams" off the top to FSP.

If you get the invite to FSP, great! If not then you have not failed - it simply means there were more high performing candidates in the pool above you.

Just give it your best shot.

For those early in the process, if the paperwork is slow or there is no news for a long time, make sure you chase it up...like any system it is not perfect. Good luck.

[getoutofvegas]

Thanks for your reply and your help roller.

One final thing that i have been thinking about. My situation is that i am 26, i don't have a lot of flying experience, about 6 hours gliding and 10 in a powered fixed wing. I haven't been to uni but I am currently completing my second apprenticeship. Do you think that will set in me in good stead when competing against the other applicants?

[Roller Merlin]

Look mate, if you get a shot at FSP, then the final yes or "thanks for coming" will be determined by how you perform over the two weeks. Don't worry about your age and non-uni background. And you have some flying...to me that displays some motivation. I reckon if you have deep drive, good learning and aptitude in the air, work well with others and express yourself well, all under a bit of pressure...then the FSP will show this off. For those that are not as blessed this will show up too and no amount of pretending will cover it. The selectors are very experienced and the process is robust. So if you get a shot, just go for it and as I said before, be yourself and enjoy the ride.

As for getting to FSP, roughly 250-270 are sent to Tamworth for screening annually to find about 150 BFTS entrants including all three services. So just getting there is pretty competitive. If you miss out on FSP you should seek feedback on how you can be more competitive. Good luck

RM

[CDT D.Brumby]

Cheers for a great thread, eveyone. really helpful stuff.

I myself am a 17y/o Australian Air Force Cadet (Cadet), and I am applying for Pilot(RAAF) as well. I haven't made the selectino for Pilot Testing yet, due to poor Mathematics marks... :ugh:

I would like to know more about the Pilot Specialist Testing, please. As I am sure that will be happening in a short while.:)

Cheers and thank yous. And congratulations to those who made it to where they are.

[MilitaryBound]

Hey fellas,

I'm off to Tamworth for the Flight Screening Process in the coming weeks and was just wondering about the Dress Standard. I've recieved the emails regarding minimum of Long Sleeve and Tie at all times and this is not a problem, the question I have is regarding what we fly in? Do they provide you with some form of flight suit or do we bring our own comfortable clothes? If someone could help me out that would be much appreciated before I go out and buy some more clothes,

Thanks in advance

Luke

[aussiepilot]

Orange flying suits are issued, just make sure you bring some runners - it can be a bit tough to feel the rudder pedals in dress shoes

If you are going to reply you might as well tell him the answer

[cadetkid]

Hey CDT. D.Brumby,

Im an Airforce Cadet aswell, and I just went for my specialist testing last week. In the speciliast testing ou have got some instrument comprehension stuff, some stuff where you need to visualise an aircrafts orientation and then what it looks like after like a 45 degree turn and stuff like that.

There is some mental maths that you wont get a chance to even use your pencil and paper. Alot of .0045 x .78 kinda stuff. Pretty much a guessing game, alot of estimating in that section aswell.

Then there is the maths part where you WILL need to use pencil and paper. My best advice for that part is look at this link.

RNZAF - Step Up Aircrew and Officers (http://www.stepup.mil.nz/jobs-in-the-rnzaf/aptitude-tests/aircrew-officers/default.htm)

Learn how to do all of the Maths Reasoning type questions and you should be fine. Our test is pretty much exactly the same as the RNZAF one in that respect.

After that part, you play with the joysticks and do the tests that involve keeping like a cross on a bigger cross. They will change the controls on you and stuff like that. Its all hand eye cordination stuff, and theres not much you can do to prepare.

After that you will be told pass/fail, and then go home. Also, its normal not to finish the tests. I didnt, and I passed. Its also fairly normal to think you bombed out, because everyone thought that at my spec testing day, and we all passed.

I hope my information helped, because there isnt alot of info out there on the spec testing itself.

[finestkind]

Yep , you are sooo right. I should have told him the answer and I guess I will do his OSB for him and also his flight screening. Effort in equals effort out. If you need help ask but if you cannot be bothered to apply a bit of effort and are just looking for shortcuts, might I suggest a different career option.

[oldpinger]

FK- what made you so bitter and twisted? guess your location kind of gives it away. Give them a break- you of course were a model student and never needed any guidance:rolleyes:

[NicKM91]

Hey,

I'm also hoping to get the call to go up to tamworth sometime soon, having passed the testing stages and the initial interview, i have recently been advised that my file will soon be/is on its way/ is already at Tamworth.

A bit about myself, I'm 17, in year 12 at school in Sydney. I currently am flying GA at bankstown, and recently passed my GFPT, I am now in the process of being endorsed on a warrior and then i'm wanting to begin some aeros and tailwheel training.

My main area of concern is public speaking for the OSB, and also I know that I'll be required to perform an oral presentation without notes. Being 17 and still in school, apart from the odd assessment speech, I have little experience in speaking to an audience, especially under the pressure i'll face at OSB. I get the usual nerves prior to and during speaking but to the point where sometimes it inhibits my ability to effectively deliver the speech. I'm working with my dad (he works in advertising and marketing) and he is helping me to feel confident when talking infront of others and giving me tips and techniques to make it a bit easier for me. Do any of you have any other tips or methods which helped you, and hopefully will help me to build up my confidence, as, being an officer role, speaking effectively to others is one thing I will need to be competent in.

I'm also applying for ACO (3rd preference) and I have the OSB for it in mid to late may (date still to be confirmed). Were i to perform poorly in this OSB, how would it reflect on my chances for the pilot OSB at Tamworth? Of course my aim is to go well at the OSB for ACO, however i'm sure there'll be some areas i need to improve on, and this will help me to prepare for the pilot OSB.

Thanks

Nick

[finestkind]

Nick, any experience is a learning experience, good or bad. Use your ACO OSB as such and if you make it to flight screening it can only help. I don’t think a poor OSB would derail your chances unless the OSB thought you were not suited for the military and that would be unlikely given you made it through the recruiting process.

OP, yeah you’ve got me,:ok: twittered and bistered. Then again you may look at it from a different angle. Here we have a chappie professing a desire to join the winged ranks. If one is truly desirous, read motivated, one would think said individual would find any information, obtain any knowledge available, i.e. stumble across a sight with lotsa info on it would be like giving a blind man sight, and devour it. Not ask for a repeat because ,…. Why it’s easy to get someone else to do the work.

So far nothing personal has been said apart from me being B and T and a model student. Let’s not delve to the lower levels of personal insults.

MB, take this from a non model student who, after exhausting all individual avenues to obtain knowledge, skills etc needed the guidance of a guide dog, you need to apply yourself. Apologise if I ruffled your feathers however this sight has been going for some time, which the number of pages attest to, and I just find it difficult to see how a person off to flight screening has not perused through them all.

OP if one thing is a given then its motivation to get those wings. That is the one thing that will stop you from giving up when it all looks too hard. Yeah maybe I should have said, with a smiley face:), that MB you need to read this post cause there is a lotta of useful info here. However if that type of guidance is needed, than I would suggest motivation, drive and application is questionable, but I have been wrong on more than one occasion:E

[oldpinger]

FK,

Without drifting too far off thread (me that is) I agree with your second para, I get the feeling from some people I see round the bazaars, that if it's not easily accessible on the net, they don't bother following it up.

So a good point for all those aspiring aviators- GET PASSIONATE!!! get reading and learn all about your 'dream' career. It's not something to try if you're only vaguely interested in it.

The bit about 'Guide dogs' I think I nearly wore mine out in training:O

[LtDan]

Nick; the only way you'll improve your public speaking is by experience. Just practice practice practice. If it means writing up a speech to deliver to your oldies before dinner, do it. And learn how to memorise a speech/use palm cards properly. Reading it straight from palm cards or from a sheet of paper doesn't look the best. But don't stress too much about the public speaking, it's there but it's not the be all and end all of the selection process.

Also as a tip future applicants, be wary what you say on these boards. ;)

[JoelRH]

Hey Guys.

I did FSP last yr.

The advice I had been given going into the 2 weeks was something I read on this forum:

"if you can fly the plane/ you're an ace, you'd have to be bloody brainless not to get recommended"

Whilst FSP is about 'flying the plane' I believe it is very much more focused on your leadership and team abilities. You only have to show potential on the plane - ie you can get airsick, you can really struggle at it in the beginning, but show improvement.

So go into tamworth with TEAMWORK, FRIENDSHIP and LEADERSHIP in your mind. Not, how can I fly this plane the best. Work on forming good relationships with your fsp colleagues and work on the board day. Really prepare for it. Have topics to talk about that show insight and that are well thought out.

Don't worry about the flying - worry about your leadership, teamwork and OSB. It's something you can really only do when you're there, but form friendships, work hard on group assignments, put in extra effort where you can, be someone your group relies on and thinks highly of.

I'm saying this because while I flew well, around the top of my group of 8 (7.something out of 9), my leadership and team skills score were low. High enough to get recommended, but not high enough to be competitive when in the 'recommended pool'.

If you're not selected in the yr you are in the pool, you can re apply, your flying scores remain, and if you get through all the initial testing again, you can re do the OSB board day, that is if you havnt accepted an offer of Air Combat Officer which they will may give you at the end of your yr.

Enjoy FSP if you can. Flying the CT4B and the CAP10 and having military training from military flying instructors, and then flying with serving air force pilots who assess you is an AWESOME experience ! I will never forget it.

Memorable moments; performing a loop and looking 'up' toward the ground and watching another ct4b fly under us. Wing overs into stalls into more wingovers into spins and getting it all right. Flying the cap 10 out to the training area trimmed up and right on the base of some rain clouds and watching the droplets peal over the canopy. Flying straight up till 0 Knots, then falling backwards toward the earth and recovery.

[Milt]

For those about to experience aircraft flight controls be prepared for the fact that all aircraft rudders work backwards to your instinctive inclinations already learned by your tricycle, billy cart, bicycle, steering wheel and most other controls of direction.

Most pilots have forgotten their early astonishment for a few hours when they had to adapt. I believe that the Wright Brothers are to blame as they simplified their rudder control wires with straight runs instead of crossing the wires.

[Load Gone...Red On]

Joel, the stuff about how to prepare for the OSB and the teamwork/leadership/friendship side of things is spot on I reckon:ok:. They are all bloody important things to demonstrate to the OSB (and on a personal level).

"Really prepare for it. Have topics to talk about that show insight and that are well thought out." Anything that demonstrates motivation and preparation will impress the OSB no end.

I would however warn those who are yet to do FSP to be wary of the comment "Don't worry about the flying - worry about your leadership, teamwork and OSB." In my experience, the board is interested in all aspects of your performance, the overall picture. However the flying in my opinion is the clincher...the go/no go. When I did flight screening I was way more worried about the flying side of things and whilst I did a fair bit of preparation (reading books, internet searches, visiting RAAF bases etc) for the OSB before I arrived at Tamworth, when I was there I was 100% focused on the the first hurdle...the flying side of things. When board day came around, then that became the priority. You cannot hide in the OSB, if you are pretending to be someone you're not then you will most likely be found out. Be yourself, tell it like it is, impress them with your knowledge and preparation and it will go well. You may be the world's best presented, confident, well spoken, intelligent, friendly person but if you score poorly in the flying then you won't get a look in. They will be more likely to recommend someone that scored well in the flying and not so well in the other activities than the other way around.

Showing motivation is very important throughout the FSP process. Pilot's course is a tough road and you need to demonstrate that you are 100%, dead set, fair dinkum, hold my breath until you let me in committed to getting your wings and convince the OSB of that fact. Not knowing what aircraft type you want to eventually fly, lack of basic service specific knowledge or simply not having a beleivable and honest answer to the big (and inevitable) question "Why do you want to be a RAAF/NAVY/ARMY pilot" will put significant doubt into the OSB's collective minds. If you are borderline on flying scores, your demonstrated motivation throughout the 2 weeks may well be the deciding factor in whether you get recommended or not.

In summary, preparation for the board is important. Flying performance is also important (in my opinion more so). True motivation is the key. The OSB will normally see through thinly veiled attempts to convinve them that you want to be there, when in fact you are putting on an act. If you genuinely want it that badly, then it will be obvious to everyone, including the OSB.

My 2c.

LG...RO

[getoutofvegas]

LtDan - Could you please explain what you meant by 'be wary of what you say on these boards'.

[Captain Sand Dune]

LtDan - Could you please explain what you meant by 'be wary of what you say on these boards'.
Because if necessary it's not too hard to find out who you are.:E
If you don't believe me, I'm speaking from experience. Nothing I've said on this thread though.:ok:
Don't let that stop you asking questions however. What I've seen on this thread so far is little cause for concern.

[Blackbird14]

Hi Guys,

First and foremost; I'd like to thank everyone who has posted on this particular thread. The information listed is an invaluable resource, and I intend on utilising all of it in my quest to becoming a RAAF pilot. I am currently studying for my pilot specific testing (on the 2nd of June), as I have passed the initial YOU session general aptitude test. Nonetheless, my question is not regarding the testing, but rather the height requirements for all aircrew. These are the height requirements listed on www.defencejobs.gov.au; (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au;)

Height Aviation Class 1:Height - minimum 163 and maximum 193cm.
Sitting Height - maximum 100cm.
Buttock to knee length - maximum 67cm.
Buttock to heel length - maximum 122cm.

I have a height of 190cm (just shy of the maximum...), and was wondering what the measuring points are for both the buttock to knee and buttock to heel lengths? What part of the buttock is the starting point for measurement? I would just like to put my mind at ease in regard to my physical suitability. I hope to god that I am within the height requirements...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Blackbird14

[jhurditch]

Goodevening,

I am undergoing my apptitude testing this wednesday 20/5/09. I am slightly confused about the level of maths that is in the test. Should I be studying things like trigonometric identities and logs or is it just your simple s = d/t sort of stuff?

Thanks

[Wader2]

I can't answer for the RAAF but I would be very surprised if it was very different from the RAF.

We dropped Logs from the basic navigation training 20 years ago and even then trigonometry was a closed book to many of the students to the extent that I had to write a simple example of trig so that they could understand it and use a calculator.

On the initial selection it is very much as you suggest, speed, times, and distance. Mental artithmetic and mental agility. Playing darts was often suggested as a means of sharpening up addition, subtraction and simple multiplication. Know you times tables and key square roots like 169, 256 and so on. :)

In other words, all pretty basic stuff but expected to be accurate and quick.

[jhurditch]

Thanks alot,

I am starting to get lessed stressed with the more I am finding out from contacts.

Cheers

[ArthurR]

Jurditch, to me you would have failed already, today Monday is the 18.5.09, Wednesday is the 20th, lets hope that was just a typing error on your part, Best of Luck. :ok:

[LtDan]

You should check out this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/333897-raaf-flight-screening-program-merged.html

It has lots of handy information regarding the journey from your first aptitude test until you complete FSP (even if you're not going for Pilot, it still has plenty of information on the specialist testing).

Good luck :)

[Arm out the window]

You need exceptional maths ability to make it. When I did mine, out of the 10 of us, 3 passed with credit, 4 just scraped through and the other 5 failed dismally.

[tundramd]

Hi to all here,
I am a 25 year old getting ready for third attempt at aircrew specialized test battery in perth Australia. (I am applying to the Australian defense force as a pilot).
I would like to improve on the specialized test battery. The battery includes spatial awareness ( you have to pick the orientation of an aircraft), instrument reading, mental arithmetic and mathematic problems associated with speed, time and distance.
Would anyone have any recommendations for software that I could purchase that contains the kinds of tests that the aircrew test battery contains, so that I can practise them?

Thankyou

[Trojan1981]

Wader is on the money. It is not that hard. When I passed I hadn't completed year 12 and was an Air Dispatcher in the Army.

[jhurditch]

Well I did the test today and it went ok (so I thought) but it turned out that I didn't go so well. I didnt score high enough marks for officer but to whom it concerns the tests where.

One general ability test:
lots of patterns moving around circles and stuff and some tricky word puzzles. Also a large number of mathematical series'. As you get 75 questions to do in 30 minutes I think it is important you work quickly on this test, although it is pretty much impossible to finish.

The second was a mathematics test:
This is not complicated maths, just alot of decimals, percentages, very very easy geometry and trig. It is not hard but just make sure its accurate and you get it all done.

I'll try again in six months.

[Blackbird14]

jhurditch,

Judging by your first post I was led to believe that you where attempting your pilot aptitude test, when in fact it was the YOU session that you were attempting... :O

Nonetheless, if you purchase some puzzle books, such as "Improve your IQ", you will improve your ability to tackle visual patterns and 'abstract reasoning' based questions. It will also sharpen your mind and condition your brain for the type of questions you're likely to encounter.

You seem pretty confident in the mathematical side of things, although I remember quite a few questions based on 'pythagoras theorem' if that helps.

Best of luck for your future attempt!

Blackbird :)

[Blackbird14]

tundramd (http://www.pprune.org/members/300167-tundramd)
As far as I am aware no such software exists. Your best bet is to scour the net for examples of the types of questions your likely to come across in the testing.

Mental arithmetic, raw data, distance, speed and time can all be researched through the internet. As you have sat the test previously, you should have a fair idea as to what you will encounter. I'd also advise that you become comfortable with the very basic instruments in an aeroplane, as there are questions based around quick, accurate reading and interpretation of them.

Hope this helps!!

Blackbird

[Blackbird14]

Just revisiting the thread in order to keep it alive!

Does anyone have an idea in regard to my previous post?

Cheers,

Blackbird

[CDT Fu]

Blackbird: I think the buttock to knee measurement is a requirement if and when you have to eject. You wouldn't want to lose your knees, would you? :=

[Pontius Navigator]

I would just like to put my mind at ease in regard to my physical suitability. I hope to god that I am within the height requirements...


Given your height it is likely that you measurements will be near the upper limit. Given that they will be close to the limit it is unlikely that any DIY attempts to measure from your buttocks will sufficiently accurate to put your mind at ease.

You find it is 1 cm too much - you will panic.

You find it is 1 cm within - you will panic in case you got it wrong.

Relax. Let the experts measure you accurately against their criteria. Only thing that you might consider is whethr you think you are normal yourself. If you are short in the body you will be long in the legs. If you are long in the body you will be short in the legs. What is your inside leg measurement? 31 is average, 33 is tall, and 35 is gangly.

[Blackbird14]

What is your inside leg measurement? 31 is average, 33 is tall, and 35 is gangly.I'm not too sure, my jean size is 34 and I'm assuming that's indicative of the inside leg measurement. My body seems to be proportional to my legs. I think I need to stop worrying about things out of my control. I'll keep you updated with my progress through the pilot selection stages. Thanks for the advice Pontius!

[GMC1989]

Blackbird14,
I understand the predicament you are in having been in a similar situation myself. Although in my case it was a question of being below the minimum height requirements. As I stand as 161.5cm (1.5cm short of the minimum) I was told I was permanently unfit for pilot training. But after undertaking functional testing on a number of aircraft I was cleared and was able to resume my application. I am now waiting for a position at Flight Screening, so fingers crossed, will be heading up to Tamworth in the next couple of months.
So from my experience I understand that if you are just outside the requirements, additional testing is done to measure your suitability. I just wanted to let you know about this procedure as if I had known about it previously I'm sure I would have avoided a lot of undue stress.
Good luck with your application and if you have any further questions please dont hesitate to ask!:)

[Kitchen_bench]

Hi all,

Just wanting to get some recommendation as to how and where i should some flying hours before FSP? I live half-way between Amberly and Brisbane (Closer to Amberly).

I'm thinking about getting 3-5hrs of flying before FSP - is that possible? And from what i've been reading - alot of hrs is taken up in the class-room, not in the air.

[tockuss]

Kitchen_bench,

I did my FSP about a month ago and arrived with about 3 hours of flight experience (and these three were done over a year ago, so it might as well have been no previous experience).

I reckon that you don't need any previous experience, as they really do teach you everything up there anyway. The only reason you'd want to get some hours up would be to show enthusiasm, but even then you can show that through your job research, going to air shows, talking to pilots and stuff like that.

And yeh, most nights (and days in the crew room when you're not up in the air) are spent reading your notes, drawing your ciruits, chair flying etc.

Best of luck

[Blackbird14]

GMC1989,
Thanks for the advice, it has put my mind at ease. I'm in a good mood today nonetheless, because I passed my pilot aptitude testing this afternoon. I have to say it was slightly more difficult then I expected. Anyway, on to assesement day, I'm just waiting for a call from my case manager to set the next date. :)

[Blackbird14]

Hey lads,
I have my assessment day coming up, which includes a psych interview, an interview with a senior officer and a medical.

How should I prepare for the psych interview? And what sort of questions will I be asked with the officer interview?

Thanks in advance

Blackbird

[The_Hat_Guy]

G'day Blackbird,

My psych was pretty straight forward, just asking things like how many close friends you have, how you relax, deal with stress, maybe your emotions at hard times in your life...just pretty much things like that, pretty straight forward, just be ready to answer with the truth,i dont think you really need to run many questions over in your mind.

The other interview though was at a much higher level. You really do have to know everything about the job, because they sit at the other end of the desk with a screen looking at the website, and so its from the defencejobs site that they ask a lot of things. The basics like why you want to be a pilot, what you can offer to the defence force, what leadership is, officer qualities, your leadership experience and such will be there. I pre thought all the question over in my head before going in, but my rehearsed answers weren't what they wanted so i spent a lot of time stumbling around answers and fixing them up :ugh: basically they ask a lot about where your training is, what aircraft you will fly, for how long, pay and benefits. I was given 2 days notice of my assessment day, so just spent an entire day taking notes from defencejobs and the RAAF site, learning current operations and future plans of RAAF, basically everything i could. In the end i thought i had failed the interview big time, but somehow he said he saw too much potential to not let me through so i was recommended, im sure you will do fine. BTW i have little leadership experience so if your like me try an convince them you are still a good leader, and i just remembered try not to fidget around, just stay calm and dont act nervous or talk too fast- basically like any interview.

[MudRat_02]

Ok, Im getting ready to go in for my spec testing. I think I'm about as prepped as I can ever be, except for one thing - the raw data test. This one is driving me nuts, because its obviously a skill you can develop, but the nature of the test eludes me...

So basically, I've heard its like:

3426 x 1234 + 222 or
235,000 / 12 x 9854
46,000 ....25


With multiple choice answers. Can anyone help me out here? Has anyone done it recently and can give me some examples?

[Georgo]

Hey guys, first of all thank you to everyone that has posted on the site. It has been incredibly helpful and has definitely helped me to get where I am so far.

I have received notice that I have been offered a place at FSP on the 8th of August (course 200932). Just wondering if there is anyone else who checks this site who is on the same course? Also if there is anyone who has recently been to FSP and may have some handy hints that they picked up.

Cheers.

[Blackbird14]

"One section I know I failed (the longer problem solving booklet), while things such as fast instrument reading I'm glad to say that I got very close to 100% in, which probably saved me from failing altogether."

Tony360,

Did they tell you the results of your tests? I was not given any scores when I completed the testing recently. I was under the impression that you had to apply for your results via Canberra, or something of the like.

Blackbird

[Joker89]

Enjoy FSP, No checks or RT:ok:

[Blackbird14]

In that case how do you know if you failed a section and got close to 100% in the other? Or is that just an assumption you made after completing the test. From what I gather you cannot fail any section of the testing. If you fail a section you do not get credited with a pass.

To be honest mate, I don't really want to see your test results, I haven't even had a look at my own. I suggest showing your parents....

[Zeddy]

Fellas and chickidees,

Just putting my 2 cents worth in - I had my pilot's spec testing on monday (just gone - july 20th). I really wish I had joined this forum earlier, as my preparations really were quite ordinary, and I had none to blame but myself. Out of the whole battery, I didn't score high enough on the instrument comprehension test. The psychologist did tell me I scored 15/28, which wasn't high enough to meet their minimum standards. By law she wasn't allowed to tell me what those standards were, but it wouldn't be too hard to have a guess at. What I really want to say is - if there is anyone out there that's a bit unsure about what's involved with the spec testing, let me know because I'd be more than happy to share some tips. As for me, it's a 12 month period before I can resit, and that surely is sucky. To everyone else, good luck in your assessment days, flight screenings and officer board selections! If you could keep everyone informed as you progress, that would be wicked!

[Blackbird14]

GMC1989 and Georgo,

What was your waiting periods between Spec Testing and Assessment Day? I passed the Spec Testing on the 2nd of June and still haven't heard anything regarding my Assessment date... :ugh:

Cheers,

Blackbird

[Georgo]

Blackbird - I had a 4 month wait between my Spec Testing and Assessment Day. I live about 8 hours from Townsville (where I had my testing and interviews) so it took a bit longer for me due to travel and work.
It may seem like it is taking a long time, but use the time to research and read as much as possible. The more you know for your Defence interview the better your recommendation may be, and the more motivated you appear to the interviewer.

[LtDan]

Lads,

The best piece of advice you can have when dealing with the recruiters is to call them, email them, call them again, send about 5 more emails and then call just to check they received any of those emails... and one more email wouldn't hurt.

At every step of the journey, whether you're waiting for your assessment day or you've just passed FSP and waiting to hear back whether you got Army or Navy, keep in frequent contact with your case manager. If you don't do this, chances are you will find your paperwork lost in a pile or filed away somewhere out of mind. It took me a while to figure this out but once I did, I was usually getting in contact with someone if I didn't hear anything for a week. Just a suggestion but one I put great emphasis on.

Good luck :)

[FFL]

Just checking if anyone knows next distribution date for Navy Applicants in the distribution pool?

[cloudsurfer1989]

I've been reading posts on here for a few months now. I've got a question for you all.

I'm a British Citizen and I'm looking to join the Austrialian Defence Force, RAAF or Army as Pilot. I want to join the Aus Defence Force as my Family is moving to Aus.

Does anybody know how I go about this??

i.e. Application, Citizenship etc

Regards,

Cloudsurfer

[Aerouk]

You would be better speaking to them mate:

Contact / Locations | Defence Jobs (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentCentre/contact/)

[Cougar]

Mudrat,
You have to do your 'working' for questions like that out loud in the interview - they care about the process, not the correct answer.

So for me, 235000/12 would be:

235000/10 = 23500, so divide by 12 would be about 20000.

OR 240000/12 = 20000, so 235000 must be a bit less than that, say 19500-ish?

Seemed to work for me (long ago!!)

[Blackbird14]

Lads,

The best piece of advice you can have when dealing with the recruiters is to call them, email them, call them again, send about 5 more emails and then call just to check they received any of those emails... and one more email wouldn't hurt.

At every step of the journey, whether you're waiting for your assessment day or you've just passed FSP and waiting to hear back whether you got Army or Navy, keep in frequent contact with your case manager. If you don't do this, chances are you will find your paperwork lost in a pile or filed away somewhere out of mind. It took me a while to figure this out but once I did, I was usually getting in contact with someone if I didn't hear anything for a week. Just a suggestion but one I put great emphasis on.

Good luck http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif


Sound advice Lt Dan. Shortly after reading your message I contacted my case manager, and low and behold they had never received my Medical Questionaire. If I had not contacted them I would probably be sitting at home scratching my head... :uhoh:

[the dos]

I have just passed assessment day about 2 weeks ago in brissy and I am wondering how closely FSP stick to the scheudule that is on the PSA website? because as it stands I believe there is only about 24 places left this year for DEO which makes me quite nervous to say the least. Just curious if any one has been given a place on the october courses???

[Captain Sand Dune]

and I am wondering how closely FSP stick to the scheudule that is on the PSA website? Pretty close!

[guitarwillie]

Thanks ScrumpyJ! I thought it was fine, just wanted to check.

Thanks again

Will

[tommm12]

Hey guys,
I'm an Australian Citizen living over in New Zealand (moved here when I was 16 and am 22 now) and am just putting the finishing touches on my Civil Engineering degree (getting decent grades) but have always seen this as more of a means to an end i.e. to open up some doors. Im really interested in flying for the Australian Army as I have always been interested in the military and especially flying but have lacked the grades at high school to follow it up (had some nasty stuff happen in last year of school). I have a few questions that ive managed to ponder up and havnt been able to find an answer too (my case manager doesnt seem to really have a large amount of info). These questions are:

a) What is the difference between SSO and GSO schemes later in your career? More specifically does the SSO option hold you back later on?

b) What is the army looking for in the applicants? I heard sports is good ( I play squash but had to give up afl when i moved over here http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/a2.gif ) and previous flying experiance which I have none of as have never had the money.

c) I never took 7th form English (equivalent to year 12 English in Australia) as I really dont enjoy it. My case manager said that this will be a significant disadvantage for me even though throughout my degree I have had to write technical reports and deliver presentations, is this true? Or could I get a waiver of some sort? Should I consider taking a tafe course to get it?

d) I know this may sound basic but how often do military pilots get to fly? I read a while ago that one of the reasons the tragic accident that killed a number of SASR soldiers out of Townsville in 1996 was because the pilots had not had enough flight time (correct me if im wrong I just seem to remember reading it somewhere).

e) What do the pilots do when not flying/planning missions? i.e. do they have any other responsibilities?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom

[finestkind]

The Hat Guy,

If you passed the Recruiting bit and your application was sent to PSA why the 12 month wait?

[bxample]

Hi, i'm looking to join the Royal Australian Air Force as a pilot or an Air Combat Officer.
Right now i'm looking at doing a sponsored undergraduate scheme to get in, but apparently you can only get into flying through defence force academy and through direct entry.
Can i get in through a graduate scheme?
any raaf pilots know of the best ways to get in as an aircrew?
thanks

[bxample]

But do you know if I can get pilot from doing the undergrad scheme?

[oldpinger]

Did you try asking recruiting?- I know they're not much help most of the time :rolleyes:, but worth a try.

[bxample]

I dunno, I called them up, but the number doesn't work. but mostly I just want to hear from the experienced guys what I should do to be a pilot or ACO. Recruiting just gives you the diplomatic 'what i've been trained to tell you' answers that don't mean much.

[Throttle747]

Hi all,

I just sat and passed specialist testing this week, only to have my case manager call and tell me my high school results from 12 years ago were not good enough to continue. Although, some top references and a good resume might be enough for them to wave the high school results issue. Has anyone else had this problem and still progressed?

[The_Hat_Guy]

finestkind,

I'm not sure why it was 12 months, I was just told i wouldn't be able to apply until 12 months time...I just figured it was the generic time period for a rejection :\

[finestkind]

THG

Mate I hate to tell you this but unless there is a specifc reason, then there is no reason to wait 12 months. Someone is screwing you around. If you are ADFA and missed the last FSP courses you can stay in the pool until your time is up. The same applies for DEO.

[MudRat_02]

If you don't mind my asking, Throttle747, what about your marks cut you out? Were they below the minimum required grades outlined in the requirements? I'm just curious, because whilst I didn't have the best high school exit scores (all B's and B+'s), I have been averaging on High Distinction / Distinction at University and was just wondering whether that will do the trick. I know it doesnt really come down to marks of course, but if anyone else has any idea, would you consider that competitive (ie. would this be likely to render me at any sort disadvantage in the selection, assuming I did ok at their various tests and interviews)?


Edit: Thanks for the advice Cougar! Good to have some idea of what to expect

[DJBowl]

AP 3393 changed W/E 14th Aug allowing pilots up to 26th Birthday.

[Throttle747]

Hey Mudrat 02. I didn't do advanced maths and only got average marks in everything else, which is below the required entry level. (If i did do it i am sure i wouldn't remember it now anyway) They have asked for all further education documents so hopefully they will have some weight. I guess we will find out soon.

[MudRat_02]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 2U Advanced Maths is the minimum.

ADF Pilot Selection Agency: Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.raaf.gov.au/psa/education.aspx)

Thankfully I knew what I wanted to do back then, and subsequently tailored my subjects toward the goal. Wasn't the most enjoyable subject list, though :8

[The_Hat_Guy]

Well I passed testing again...so hopefully I can get another recommendation at assessment:}

[wolfos3d]

Hi everyone,

I am interested in becoming a RAAF pilot in the future but I am a little concerned about the medical. While I do not have any current medical conditions I still need to complete my VCE and I am a little hesitant to put in another two years of study at TAFE to discover that I may not meet the medical requirements to become a pilot.

Has anyone been faced with any unexpected medical problems after they applied? Would it be an idea to look for a place that will do a similar medical?

Thanks,
Jessica

[Blackbird14]

Jessica,
If you're within the height and weight requirements, and you don't have any major medical issues then the medical should not be a problem. Personally I don't think it's worth worrying about, best to save your thoughts for the things in your control (ie., Interviews and testing).

[wolfos3d]

Thanks Blackbird,

I don't have any major medical issues and I meet the height and weight requirements without a problem. I guess I'm just a little worried about it as it is one of the only things out of my control. I suppose I should just focus on the more important things and just try to stay healthy.

I would like to know if anyone had any problems that they didn't expect in that regards though if anyone is up to sharing. :)

[DBTW]

I would like to know if anyone had any problems that they didn't expect in that regards though if anyone is up to sharing.

Be brave, be positive and go boldy in the direction of your dreams. You are generating anxiety where none should exist.

[wolfos3d]

Thanks DBTW,

I'm going to stop worrying about it and worry about the more important things. It is a rather silly thing to be worrying about considering.

Another question I have is about the instrument reading test that is part of the recruitment process. It appears to be one of the things that a lot of people seem to have a bit of trouble with. Does anyone have any ideas where I can get some practice for it?

Thanks,
Jessica

[wolfos3d]

Thanks Tony,

I'll give that a go. It shouldn't be too hard to find a few images to work with. I wish I could manage 80+ hours myself but unfortunately I don't have that option.

[Andy05]

Just some help would be greatly appreciated.
I have always wanted to join the ADF but for one thing or another it just hasnt happened. I didnt do year 11 and 12 which is my concern,
I did complete a trade when I left school and am a light automotive mechanic and I also have a real interest in aviation, I went and completed my commercial pilots licence with a multi engine instrument rating and a instructor rating and as much as I am enjoying flying where I'm I still would like to join the ADF and fly there. Ideally I would like to fly C-130's or C-17's, is there any ways around the year 11 and 12 requirement or is there any courses the ADF accept as equal to 11 and 12 subjects?

Any help is greatly appreciated

Andy 05

[cj0203]

In response to October FSP, I think it is panelled in the next couple of weeks. I passed my assessment day back in late June but due to a couple of medical hiccups, my file didn't make it to PSA until early August which means I missed the August FSP(SSO).

I got a letter only last week saying my file was recieved. I rang them and was told that the October Course will be panelled in the next 2-3 weeks. So I have my fingers and toes crossed!

Chris

[the dos]

Me too I have been ringing them all the time hoping something has changed or come up.

[finestkind]

Andy 05

There are a lot of smart people around,:ok: some with qual's some without. The ADF uses things like the Edu requirements to filter the mass wanting to be a pilot. I don't think there is any way around it. You need a YR 12 Edu in the right subjects. There maybe course that the ADF accept but I cannot help you there.

[Georgo]

Guys & Gals,

Thought I might leave some information on here that maybe able to help future applicants out just like it has been an enormous help to me.

I started my application last September, and mainly because I don't live near a recruiting center, it took a while for things to progress. I was notified in July that I had been fortunate enough to be offered a spot on the August FSP. The 2 weeks were amazing and very challenging. I had a great time, met some great people and learned a hell of lot about flying and myself.

I wont spoil all the details for all you that are waiting to go down to Tamworth, but I will say that it is what you make of it. You can easily do nothing down there and just float by, but your scores will represent this and your only cheating the people that have not been offered a spot and who would of made the most of the oppurtunity. You are not going to be able to do what they ask of you 'perfectly'. But you need to show that you are capable of learning and able to listen. The more you work your ass off on the ground, the more this will help you in the air.

I was only home 8 days when I got the call from PSA advising that I had again been fortunate enough to be offered a spot in the October intake for the RAAF (as long as my eyes pass this Tuesday).

The flying you will do at Tamworth, you most likely will never get the oppurtunity to do again. So, enjoy it and make the most of it!!!!!
All the best.

Cheers.

[The_Hat_Guy]

Congrats Georgo:ok: ... and good luck with the eyes

[the dos]

Hey guys just letting you know for all of those intrested that Oct FSP is starting to be offered. I got my call this morning. WOOOOOO:):):):)

The Dos

[john07mark]

What is the approximate waiting time between FSP and OTS (if successful)???

[KuneDo]

Hey The Dos.
How's it going? I just received my offer for FSP this morning as well. I'll be attending between the 10th and 24th. How about you?

Take it easy,

KuneDo.

[Georgo]

John,
Depends on when the distribution dates are. I believe there are several OTS courses run a year. I was lucky because my FSP finished right when the distribution date was though you could wait as long as 6 months.

[the dos]

Hey Kunedo

I look foward to meeting you becasue I have been placed on the very same course:ok: I cant wait, I could hardly sleep last night after that phone call yesterday lol.

The Dos

[Captain Sand Dune]

Remember to listen, and learn to read a clock!:ugh:

[KuneDo]

Excellent man. Haha I know, the last couple days have been the happiest I've had in a long time. I first applied back in August 2008. Patience pays off.
That goes for anybody else applying as well. Stick at it. If being a pilot is what you really want to be then don't ever deter even for a nanosecond. If it's meant to be then it'll happen, but that doesn't mean that you won't have to work hard for it. Its been a fairly harrowing 14 months. Keep at it.


The Dos, tell me a bit about yourself mate.
My name is Matt, I'm 21 years old, living in Perth.
As was forementioned, the last 14 months of my life have been spent working towards this moment. I had my assessment day in July and have been clearing up medical issues since then so it felt pretty good to hear back from the PSA so soon.

KD.

[the dos]

Hey Kunedo

my names Hayden, from the gold coast, 20 and applied last November. Have you done any flying before?

Dos

[KuneDo]

Yeah I've done a few flights in my hometown of Albany in a family friend's Cessna 182. I've done about 5 flights since I was 15. They were mainly joy rides but they gave me the taste I needed to spur me to apply. I had always wanted to get my private licence when I was younger but could never afford it. How about you? Have you received any emails or letters from PSA? I was told to expect it within a couple days.

[the dos]

I have done a fair bit of flying I am currently working towards a CPL but since this has been going on I am putting all of my time into the RAAF on prep. Not as yet I haven't got any emails I am waiting for those to with baited breath.

[KuneDo]

Awesome. Well I look forward to meeting you there.
October 10th cannot come soon enough.

Until then...

KD.

[Russs]

Hi there
Could anyone please give me a run down of the written testing (specific's please) at the Y.O.U Session.
Thankyou kindly.

[Dilmah G]

(I'm new here, don't mind me)

This thread is absolute gold, I have no idea what I'd do without the 20+ pages on here. :)

I'm currently in High School over in Perth (10th Grade to be more exact), and like most others here, being a Pilot is the only damn thing in the world I could see myself doing, so like any committed person, I've been trying to do some prep for the YOU session and hopefully Specialist Testing in pursuit of ADFA-Entry Pilot. At the moment I've bought the "Wings Book" from here : Get Your Wings. How to become a Pilot in the Royal Australian Air Force. (RAAF) (http://www.getyourwings.com.au/) And I've downloaded a book called "Military Flight Aptitude Tests" by Solomon Wiener, which looked pretty good, but it's tailored for applicants aspiring for the US Armed Forces (Are their tests *that* different to ours?)

So without getting too long winded

- Are there any other books/materials that would be of use?
- For someone aspiring to ADFA, how badly would only doing double maths in Year 12 affect me? (There's been a major course overhaul for maths over here, so yes, that IS possible)
- In regards to the maths end of Pilot Specialist Testing (assuming I get that far), what are the questions like? Are they "Aviation Maths" focused or more general?

[Foxtrot.Oscar]

BBC - North West Wales Holyhead - RAF Valley (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/sites/holyhead/valley.shtml)

[jimwyze]

Hello all, I'm also new!

Firstly, I'd also like to say a HUGE thank you to all the people who have made contributions to this merged thread over the years. The advice and general discussion in here has been a monumental help, and a lot of inspiration. It's so pleasing to see so many aspirations turn into a reality. Well done to all you guys and girls who have been selected!


A bit about me: I'm 27, and I've just finished my apprenticeship in Aircraft Maintenance Engineering, working in the Deep Maintenance of the C-130H at RAAF Base Richmond (hence waiting till now to submit my application). I stumbled across this thread at the start of this year, and submitted my Direct Entry application at the start of July. I passed the YOU session and the Specialist testing in July and August, and I'm in preparation now for the Assessment session which I have on the 29th - next Tuesday.

I was just wondering, is anyone aware of how early the flight screening courses get booked out? I've looked at the flight screening schedule for the rest of this year, and there's only 4 DEO courses left - starting the 10th, 17th, 24th, and 31st of October. Assuming I do well enough in my interviews on the 29th of this month (fingers crossed!), which courses, if any, would still have positions yet to be allocated? If it's possible for me to receive an offer for the start of next year, I want nothing more than to be there!




Dilmah: I have both of those books.

Wings is OK, but it does seem to contain a lot of information that is available off the RAAF sites, a lot even copy-pasted by the look of it.

The 'Military Flight Aptitude Tests' book is pretty good. There's a few tests/types of questions that are common to our tests (for example the stuff on instrument comprehension/aircraft attitudes), but most of their tests are different. It's still good just getting used to completing tests in the specified time frame.

Another thing I found helpful was a workbook you can download from Flight Aptitude Test Guide for RAF OASC Cranwell FATS (http://www.fatpass.co.uk/) - about $15. Gets you used to the Time Speed Distance questions. They're not particularly difficult questions, it's just useful to speed up your calculations.

Here (http://www.speeddistancetime.info/) is another Time Speed Distance source. Not as good, but free.

Here (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501724) - Another useful thread if you need the practice.


There is some 'general' maths, more so in the YOU session testing, but the Spec testing I'd say is more 'Aviation Maths'.

I hope that's helpful!


Also, good luck KuneDo and the dos. Hopefully I'm right behind you. :OK:

[KuneDo]

Thanks Jimwyze. Best of luck to you also. I'm sure you'll do fine, just keep at it.

[Dilmah G]

Tony360: I've seen the website, lowest form of maths acceptable is Applicable, which is roughly equivalent to what I'll be taking in Year 12 + the equivalent of G+T, which is the subject that leads onto Calculus. And as far as age goes, I'll be 16 and a half in 10 months, so I'll be putting my application in during the next year. I've got about 40 minutes on an introductory flight in a 152, and about 4 hours right-seating on a 172 a few years ago. School grades are hovering around B+ to A- at the moment, so I'd say they were *okay* for the time being. I'm guessing they count a lot for ADFA applicants? On that note, if one were to ace Spec Testing and have B+/A- kind of grades, would it count more than someone who had just passed Spec Testing and had A+'s all round in relation to Flight Screening spots? jimwyze: Thanks a million for those links. :) Yeah, I noticed the copy-pasting going on in the Wings Book (Oh, and Good Luck to you!). I can do the spatial questions with the aircraft and the compass fairly easily that they have in the American Book + The Wings Book, Instrument Reading seems to get a fair few people down though..

[oldpinger]

Tony360

Civilian flying qualifications are not a requirement for ADF selection. An interest in aviation to the best of your economic abilities/personal situation is much more important. I'll expand- if you can't afford to fly, you will not be disadvantaged compared to someone who isn't as passionate but has 500hrs because they can afford it.

Do whatever you can to get into aviation and you won't go far wrong.

[oldpinger]

Well, actually no.

What they assess at FSP is rate of learning, NOT what you know already.

Tony, you seem quite an expert for 17??

[oldpinger]

Experience is used to see if you do the basic or advanced version of the course, ie whether you do less or more sorties in the CAP10. Talk to your contact at PSA for details.

Didn't mean anything ref the expert comment, good effort on the PPL at high school.:D, just be careful with giving definitive advice as there are people on proon who have direct experience in this field, both past and present who do actually know the answers and are willing to help!

Happy Flying:ok:

[Georgo]

I have recently returned from FSP. There were 4 people on our course that had NO flying experience what so ever!! Three of these people received decent stanines and were also recommended. There was also a guy that had an excellent flying scores (average 8) with 200+ hours and a CPL that was not recommended.
They are not assessing how good of pilot you are already but rather assessing how 'trainable' you are, and on top of that and most importantly your officer qualities. Someone with no CT-4 time compared to someone with 20+ hours would be on an even playing field. Sure you may know the aircraft a little better but you don't know the techniques and sequences that they want you to know instinctively.

<br>Dilmah: Your motivation sounds spot on! And by the sounds of it if you keep your school marks up and you go well in your Spec and Assessment testing, you will be placed very well. PSA recognize that not everyone is able to afford flying lessons. There are many other ways to show your enthusiasm and motivation if you can't afford these lessons. Such as going to air shows, talking to pilots and having as much knowledge on the ADF and aviation history as possible.<br><br><br>

[jimwyze]

Hey Georgo, I take it your eyesight test went well?

Congratulations mate. I read posts like yours with much envy, but also much anticipation. :ok:

Might I ask out of interest, why 26 or 27 until you applied?

[Dilmah G]

Tony360: Ah, I see, thanks. Well in regards to Flight Experience, I'm taking a seventh subject, Aviation Studies, for one hour a week in Years 11/12. At the moment I'm taking only the theory component, but I have the opportunity to undergo an accompanying Practical Component, which of course, involves flying. At the moment, I'm debating whether to take the Practical Component, though I've heard that pilots with extensive previous experience find it hard to adjust and have "Bad Habits" in regards to military flying and so on. Georgo: Thanks for that advice, I'm in the process of learning where the RAAF's Squadrons are base/Which aircraft they operate etc.. I'm in two minds whether to pursue flying lessons, would it be *that* much of a plus in the eyes of the OSB, assuming I got that far? The other issuing which is bugging me is my eyesight, I've heard about laser-surgery being accepted, and I think I may have read a bit on it on this thread, but at the moment I'm -3.5 in both eyes. I'm not completely sure how that'll affect me...

[Dilmah G]

Ah yeah, I've read that a few times. Well, if I didn't love every second of being strapped into an aging 152 and a 172, then I wouldn't be putting every fibre in my body behind this. :) The cost as well is what's prevented me from going up recently, the local HJ's laid me off because they were "Overstaffed", and that was a year ago. The part-time job front hasn't been looking very good to me lately, however I think I might be able to get in for work experience at RAAF Pearce about this time next year.

Yeah, I've had an extensive read on Laser Surgery in the past few months, including a Defence Health Article relating directly to the issue. Are there any School-Leavers currently at ADFA now or in the RAAF after having succesfully gone through the process after undertaking LASIK/LASEK? I sent an e-mail to DFR about the issue, they told me eyesight for aircrew positions was assessed on a case-by-case basis. So either way, I'm going to wait until the medical and see what they have to say.

[Pontius Navigator]

Read the thread.

[cj0203]

Got my call yesterday for October FSP! (24th-7th)

Over the moon and relieved to say the least. I have been praying on that call for a while. I had my assessment back in late June. I'm 31 so I was feeling a little old compared to most of the others on the day! Just need to knuckle down now, study big and do the hard yards at FSP, can't wait. :cool:

Chris

[Dilmah G]

Congrats CJ, and good luck! :)

[cj0203]

Cheers Dilmah and right back at ya! :ok:

[camelspyyder]

Waaaaahhhhh!:)

CS

[MudRat_02]

Well, just finished a tiring battery of tests at Spec in Brissy today. Passed - and finished all of the tests with a bit of time to spare! Thanks to everyone on this thread that offered advice, it all worked out ok in the end. Seems like a big hurdle, but then again, theres no doubt that it wont be the most stressful one in the career we're all aiming for, nor the last one where its all on the line. So this can only mean one thing - back to the books, because the toughest part is yet to come! :}

[Blackbird14]

Well done Chris, good luck at flight screening!

Mudrat - I'm in the same position as you mate, having completed spec testing. I like to focus on one hurdle at a time, the dream seems more ascertainable that way... :ok:

[MudRat_02]

Don't suppose you have a good idea of what to expect at assessment day? I've done my homework (and read the rest of this extensive thread!) - theres a psych and defence interview, medical .ect, but what I'd really like to know is whether anyone here has done it recently and can give me any fresh insight into the process?

I happen to know someone that used to do the psych part of this assessment and previously the OSB for the RAF at Cranwell, but all he has to tell me is "What they're assessing in your interviews are: 1. If you've bothered to research the job and 2. whether you're good at interviews!" Another bloke has told me it was all very straightfoward with little questions like "whats that plane in the picture on the wall" and whatnot and was all very easy and streamlined. On the other hand, I've heard some disaster stories!

Rest assured, I've been getting to know the trade through talking to the guys who either currently fly for the air force or those who used to, and reading over all the info I could get my hands on over the last few years, but I think that last ounce of confidence gained through knowing what's to come from those who have been there would be invaluable!

[Avtrician]

Gents,

Dont get too wound up over flying experience or lack there of. I have seen trainees with instructor ratings fail the course, where those with limited prior knowledge have aced the course. Remember, the PC9 is a different kettle of fish to the CT4.

[aviationascent]

MudRat,

Did mine about 6 weeks ago.
When you get there they get you to fill out a behavioural questionnaire, maybe 30 questions. As with all behavioural q's answer honestly. This will be used by the psych tester to confirm that what you say in the interview matches up. Before you have the psych interview, they put you in a room for 15mins and you have to write a short essay. Then they interview you. I think this goes for about 30-45mins. She was madly writing a lot down about what I was saying. Questions like "when was the last time you took an elicit drug?", "never" of course is the right answer. (Note: how that question assumes that you HAVE taken elicit drugs - psych tactics) Bare in mind that all this info is being taken for future reference in OSB etc. So what you say may come back and bite you if you have been telling lies and wind up contradicting yourself later.

Then interview with defence personnel. Mine was from the army. This was suprisingly easy for me but i think i got lucky. This guy asked questions like what is that plane on the wall, nothing obscure just one that the RAAF operate. Then where will your training take you in terms of OTS, BFTS, 2FTS, where ARE these places located ie, on a map. Once this guy could see I had done my research he just told war stories of his time in the ADF and how cruisie his job was and how good the view was from his office window. NOTE, he was asking questions straight off the website on his computer, then would take a sec as he read through it to check that i was right. :rolleyes:

Then the medical. Ishihara test. You can get a hold of this online and memorise the numbers if you really want. Though i wouldn't recommend it. Nothing that special about the medical other than you either are medically fit or your not. Oh, and wear nice undies for the duck waddle they make you do. :O

I got FS on the 17th of Oct. Anyone else out there going down then? I have about 6000 words to write for my last semester of a Bachelor or Aviation and a heap of study to do for the RAAF. Only two weeks to do it. My pants are about to explode!

[Captain Sand Dune]

I trust you lot will show a little more enthusiasm for flying than the course that’s here now. Pulling a sickie because you can’t hack flying more than once a day doesn’t go down well.:hmm:

[MudRat_02]

Cheers for the information aviationascent!

I trust you lot will show a little more enthusiasm for flying than the course that’s here now. Pulling a sickie because you can’t hack flying more than once a day doesn’t go down well.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

Thats very surprising! I suppose some get there and realise its not what they thought an aviation career, let alone one in the defence force, would be like. Do these blokes have much experience? Sounds strange to me, I'm convinced after talking to all the relevant people and getting up and having a fly whenever I can that there's nothing else I'd rather be doing!

Just out of curiosity, are you one of the BAE or ADF blokes based at the facility in Tamworth?

[Captain Sand Dune]

Do these blokes have much experience? No.
Sounds strange to me, I'm convinced after talking to all the relevant people and getting up and having a fly whenever I can that there's nothing else I'd rather be doing! You and me both. However I guess if it isn’t an air conditioned cockpit flying straight and level it isn’t Gen Y’s thing!:hmm:
Just out of curiosity, are you one of the BAE or ADF blokes based at the facility in Tamworth? Nice try. Have a look back through this thread and draw your own conclusions.

[Runaway Gun]

Only once a day? These Instructors sound a bit soft ;)

[Captain Sand Dune]

Bluddy flying - interferes with uckers!

[MudRat_02]

Nice try. Have a look back through this thread and draw your own conclusions.

Its always worth a try! Conclusions already drawn ;)

Looks like I'll be in good stead; all that glass-canopy experience gliding on a blistering mid-summer Queensland day will really play in my favour! Then again, I bet its a different kettle of fish alltogether when its a plastic parrot and you've got an instructor assessing you all the while!

On a more serious note, FSP couldn't come soon enough. Really looking to get into one of those mid January FSP slots for DEO next year. Anyone got an offer for next year, or know if they are even thinking about filling those places at the moment?

Aviationascent - I have a feeling we're both working on the same assignments :ugh:

[alexp3734]

hey guys

I wish i'd joined this forum earlier, I've completed my interviews with Defence recruiting in Brisbane and have a place on the FS Course on the 17th of Oct, so aviationascent looks like I'll be meeting you in Tamworth.

[MudRat_02]

hey guys

I wish i'd joined this forum earlier, I've completed my interviews with Defence recruiting in Brisbane and have a place on the FS Course on the 17th of Oct, so aviationascent looks like I'll be meeting you in Tamworth.

Just out of interest, how long did you have to wait between Assessment day and getting the call for FSP?

[craic1510]

Hi everyone!

I am currently working as a good old air hostie but have been wanting to join the Air Force for years. Family circumstances and life led me in a different direction for a while... needless to say I am back on track again, well 5 years later :) What can I say... I have come to my senses :P

Wel...l I have my YOU day end of this month and I am getting myself into prep mode by studying up as much as possible on the Air Force, the recruitment process and what to expect.

For the girls/guys that have just recently been through the process, could I ask someone, if you have the time, to pm me.. and give me the low down on ACTUALLY what to expect?

The problem with researching on the net is that you never know what is accurate and what isnt. I don't want to stuff this up and I would be very grateful to anyone that could just drop me a line, instead of me having to spend hours reading through thousands of posts on here, distracting me from practising my aptitude tests :)

I would just love a heads up on what to focus on. I barely scrape enough time off work to sleep these days, so fitting in study too is tough. So prioritising is a BIG thing for me... plus it would be nice to make some friends in the process that think alike :P

Anyways, BIG congrats to everyone that has been successful recently and I hope to hear from a buddy soon!

Hannah

[alexp3734]

mudrat, I did my Assessment day on the 17th of Aug so it I had to wait about a little over a month between my Assessment Day and getting the call for the FSP

[MudRat_02]

Cheers Alex!

That timing would work great for me (though I'm well aware that it varies). Pretty much guarantees FSP for me next year if ever, which gives me a great 'holiday' period to spend prepping.

[Georgo]

MudRat: I had to wait about 6 weeks after my assessment day till my dossier was sent to PSA, though I didn't get the call for another 3 - 4 weeks after that. The long wait was due to the ADFA applicants being processed during that time. If you feel you have scored well during your assessment day and feel as though you have proven you have an above sound knowledge of the ADF, then the call from PSA shouldn't be to far away!!

I believe the next recruitment date for RAAF and ARMY is next February (but don't take that as gospel).

[MudRat_02]

Thanks for the great info and advice georgo, can't ever have too much of that! Looks like the odds are stacked in favour of me having a bit of a wait (I'm anticipating one of the mid-Jan courses, but as we all know there could be complications that need to be sorted between now and then that could set me back a few months), but in the meantime I'll be making sure my angles are covered. I haven't yet been locked in for Assessment day (its a few weeks away), but I've been studying all the info I could get my hands on from my school days until now in anticipation for this, so hopefully I can make a good impression there and slot into FSP soon thereafter!

Good luck with OTS, perhaps I'll see you in the RAAF in the coming years

[DanniM]

Hi all,

I also have just completed the YOU session and the aircrew testing and am awaiting a position for the Assessment Day. I am just unsure about my preferences at this stage. Of course I want to be a Pilot, however I am not sure whether to put ADFA or DEO as my first preference. I am 18 years of age so it's possible that I might be viewed as having not enough life experience. If this is the case, would ADFA be a better first preference? If I put DEO as first and did not make it through, would they consider me for ADFA instead?

Any information would be great thanks :)

[shaunmac]

Fella's, good job on keeping this thread active.

Quick question as i have my interview/psyche stage in the not too distant futer. Do the interviewers ask you questions about your first preference? as i know a bit about the RAAF. Or do they expect you to know as much about the 2nd and 3rd preferences too?


Good luck to all in the PSA stage.

Thanks

[Dilmah G]

----edit----

[DanniM]

Thanks Dilmah, I am starting to lean towards that direction now. I will have to contact my recruitment centre and hopefully that can help me with the second part of whether they would offer me ADFA if I have applied for DEO (thats if I get recommended in the first place :))

Thanks again,

Danni

[Bob Viking]

Before this moves into the sticky and to save you some time I will add my bit because I'm feeling benevolent.
Despite the days when you will be immensely p1ssed off with your job and will whinge like a good 'un with the rest of us we would probably all admit (certainly in my part of the world) that we love what we do and wouldn't actually change it for the world. We always point out to each other that even the richest guys in the world don't get to roar around in fast pointy jets on a daily basis (yes I know they have plenty of other perks!).
The general theme is that you will love the flying but you will hate the bullsh1t that comes with the job.
Hope that helps.
BV:ok:

[Runaway Gun]

I agree with Bob. Many would pay millions to do the stuff we do. If you want to fly and become the best pilot you can be, become a military pilot. As you get older, try not to let the BS get you down, just remember that your worst days on the job, are always better than your best days in the Bank/Bakery/Hotel. And the BS is a small price to pay at the end of the day. :)

[wolfos3d]

Hey Everyone,

I'm just curious if anyone knows if you are able to have more then one entry type as your first preference?

I have heard of people putting all three services as equal first preference but I'm wondering if you would be able to do this with the DEO and ADFA preferences.

I've weighed up both of them and have decided that I would be equally happy with either outcome. I would love to be payed to study and earn a degree but I would also love to start flying as soon as I can and take the more hands on and direct approach to a flying career.

Thanks,
Jessica

[alexp3734]

Quick question as i have my interview/psyche stage in the not too distant futer. Do the interviewers ask you questions about your first preference? as i know a bit about the RAAF. Or do they expect you to know as much about the 2nd and 3rd preferences too?

Shaun I was asked questions about my second and third preference as well as my first, just things like what aircraft those services fly and what is involved with training for those specific services. Also a little bit of knowledge about them, but not as much as my first preference.

Hope it helps

[DanniM]

Hey Jessica,

At the end of my testing I was told by my Careers Councillor that you put different entry types as different preferences. So for example, you could have DEO pilot as your first preference and then ADFA pilot as your second. I think I'm in the same position as you with that as I wouldn't mind ADFA or direct entry.

Hope this helps,

Danni

[oneflewnorth]

Hi everyone!

I've been trawling this forum post on and off for years now and have a question for anyone out there.
In 2005 I went to my JOES day and did well however decided to put it on hold and pursue a uni degree. 4 years later and it's finally coming to a close (changed degrees). I'm absolutely pumped by the thought of flying in the RAAF still, and want in! I'd start the interview process again next year. So! It may or may not be a stupid one but my question is this; I'm a little rusty when it comes to maths, what kind of maths would I be facing throughout the process and would any of you recommend/should I do a 6 month TAFE course or something similar to bring me up to standard? I don't want to flunk and have to wait 12 months, i already feel I've waited too long.
Almost forgot! I also have eyesight issues. Does anybody have any official documents on surgery options for RAAF flight crew?
Any info would help :)

Thanks

[ryano]

Hi there guys and girls,

As somebody who has done FSP in August '09 I'd like to offer my opinion. If you read previous posts from Sept '09 onwards, you'd be aware that PPRune member "Georgo" who has posted on this thread was also recently down there and has since taken up a RAAF offer to begin BFTS shortly.

In fact, the pair of us were on the same FSP course and I wish to congratulate him - he's a fine fellow and I wish him well on BFTS! My opinion on and experience at FSP is closely aligned to his, and from other posts on this thread, to many others as well.

Providing you make it through the recruiting process you may be offerred a place on FSP. Please note that simply passing your Assessment Day does not mean you will be going to FSP. Places on FSP are limited and some are assigned to ADFA applicants and others to Direct Entry scheme applicants, and there are always more applicants than spots at FSP. The timetable for when FSP courses run and how many people are on that course can be found on the RAAF website. There is no set answer on when you'll get a spot on FSP, if you do. Simply pass your Assessment Day and wait - best answer.

I cannot stress to you how competitive it is getting a spot on BFTS. Getting onto Flight Screening is one thing, but getting through it and getting a spot on BFTS is another thing entirely. I have seen so many questions about so many things on this thread. Ultimately, to get a shot at Flight Screening you must be competitive in the avenue that you are applying for (there are different qualities that are sought after for ADFA and DE applicants). There are several hundred people who make it through Assessment Days each year, and less than 300 spots on FSP, and less than half that number of places on BFTS.

You will be assessed on three things while at FSP and it is vital to know that they are ALL important. You must demonstrate a required rate of learning. In other words, you must have a degree of raw ability in learning to and being able to fly. This does not require previous flying experience, if you have some, great, if you don't, don't worry. Flight Screening assesses where you started from and where you end and how you did in the middle. I went to FSP with no flying experience, as did others on my course, as have others who have made it onto BFTS.

The remaining two items will be assessed during the two week course and finally in your OSB. Your level of motivation and commitment is critical and can be easily assessed during the two weeks. If you rolled over one morning and decided to become a pilot, you may have made it through your Assessment Day but this will not suffice at FSP and your OSB.

Your level of officer qualities is also equally important to your success at FSP. Your general behaviour, your organisational skills, how you fit in a military environment, your personality etc etc (the list is endless) will ultimately determine whether you receive a recommendation or not. As "georgo" pointed out, two guys got very very good flying scores, one with a shed load of civvy hours and quals, but received "not yet recommended" because they needed to improve certain aspects of their officer qualities.

You will reap what you sow at FSP. If you stay up late, get up early, chair-fly the lounges in the crew room like tomorrow and are as prepared as you can be for each flight, you're off to a good start. You will have an absolute blast down there and you will make good friends who come from around the country. It is as much fun as it is hard work.

There is enough information out there to give you an idea of what you'll encounter down there. My advice is to prepare yourself well and handle yourself well. Be prepared for your OSB, think of every question under the sun you could be asked and have a solid answer. Speak to as many people as you can, show some initiative and find someone if you don't know someone. Be adaptable and always perform at your best.

Otherwise, good luck with it.

[ol-mate]

Hi all,

This the draft Minimum Visual Requirement - 1A for Pilot as of May 2004. Hopefully it will give some insight as to the standard required.

Visual Acuity (each eye separately): Unaided 6/12, Aided 6/6
Near Vision (Corrected): N5 at 30-50cm N14 at 100cm

Refraction Limits with cycloplegia

Hypermetropia: +1.75 dioptres
Hypermetropic astigmatism: +0.75 dioptre
Myopia: -1.00 dioptre
Myopic astigmatism: -0.5 dioptre
Heterophoria, Eso or Exophoria: Must not exceed 6 prism dioptres

Convergence: 10cm or less
Age in years Cm
17-20 10-11
21-25 11-12
26-30 13-14
31-35 14-16

Fields of vision: The fields of vision should be normal to confrontation or, in cases of doubt, to perimetry.

Diseases of the eye or eyelids: Acute conditions to be treated first. Chronic conditions may result in rejection. Seek opthalmological opinion.

Intraocular pressure: Normal range for technique used.

*Please Note: This information is freely available on the internet. If you would like a copy of the document, please PM me with an e-mail address and i will send it to you. It does have details pertaining to LASIK surgery which clearly states that it is not acceptable for aircrew entry, however this document is dated 2004 and is only a draft, their stance may have changed.

I strongly recommend that you contact your DFR Office, if you have any questions about the Minimum Visual Requirements forAircrew entry. If you do not wish to raise any alarms at DFR about your eyesight, I would suggest ringing around your local optometrists/opthalmologists and ask them if they are familiar with the standards required for the ADF. Then go and have a test done to put your mind at ease.

Sorry about the length of the post.

[dmcleod]

In terms of doing a 6 month maths course thats a little over kill, I did a 4 week course with a bloke called Dr. Steven Holding which was well worth it and not too expensive, he also offers a 3 day aptitude course, he however is based in Brisbane, not sure where you are, but he does offer some via correspondance.

www.aerophysics.com.au/ (http://www.aerophysics.com.au/)

That is his website, I recommend him if you are worried, there are other courses out there, known people who have done "PATS" said it was pretty expensive for what they recieved, their opinion not mine I didn't do that course, hope that helps a little.

[oneflewnorth]

Thanks for the info dmcleod. That course sounds really good. So you did the aeronautical mathematics course? Im not sure i can spend 1600 on a 4 week course haha. I'm in Sydney though, maybe there's something similar here. I saw your in the feedback on his website. Hows the course going? Is it how you imagined it would be?

Thanks Tony360. I'm considering just doing a 'bridging' course at uni to brush up, should do the job, need to speak to a few more people...plus it's free :)

Ol-mate, that info's great, thanks for that. The rules have been relaxed a little since 04, surgery is now accepted on a case by case basis as far as I'm aware. May take a bit of a fight to get through though. I've heard some people in the past have elected to do the FSP prior to surgery, then, when accepted, get the surgery and if all's well, go through...something like that anyway. I believe 'HornetBoy' did this. ??

[ryano]

Hi guys and girls again,
I have noticed several questions pertaining to preferences and different avenues of entry (ADFA/DE etc) lately and think I can help. I will not go so far as to say whether you can have an ADFA preference and a Direct Entry preference open simultaneously as my word is not gospel. Your recruiter can tell you or find out for you.
There comes a point when you are "playing the game" and where you are genuinely trying to get in. The people who pick applicants are not silly and they will spot you out in a heartbeat.
If you genuinely want to study and gain a university degree first, then have ADFA down as your preference and work towards that. With programs like BTech with the RAAF and Army Aviation Scholarships, you are reserved a spot on BFTS before you start your studies. If you are not serious about ADFA or Direct Entry, do not put it down - at all.
ADFA and other officer training programs that you complete irrespective of service will have different affects (sometimes quite a difference) on your career as a military officer and pilot. You should be aware of these when you make your decision.
When it comes to Direct Entry, it is generally (and not always) accepted that those with maturity and life experience do better than their younger counterparts. This does not preclude youngsters from Direct Entry, everybody and their circumstances are unique.
If you would rather not complete tertiary studies than Direct Entry is your avenue. You need to be aware though that you can only go to FSP once and Direct Entry is the most competitive avenue to get in through, in terms of number of people who apply and number of positions available. It is not good enough to get through FSP and get your recommendation - that is NOT a spot on BFTS. In order to get that spot, you need the recommendation and to be super competitive. Your age will not stop you getting recommended at FSP and in your OSB, but a lack of maturity and life experience will make it more difficult to get an offer.
If you want to go DE and feel that at the moment you may not be as competitive as you could be, my best advice is to stop now, go and do something else that will improve you as a person, your experiences, your resume etc. A couple of years out of school will make a HUGE difference to you, significantly improve your chances etc. A few years may sound like a long time, but it isn't at all. Your aviation training program could take several years to complete (depending on what you do), not including any officer training. You should know that there are many people who are working towards the same goal as you and have put in the hard yards, who have pursued avenues that they do not particularly like but have done so because it presents them as the person that stands out.
Military aviation will still be there in the future, the big question is whether you are prepared to do what it takes to be a part of it.

[oldpinger]

Ryano

:D:D well said sir!

[cj0203]

Is there any fitness tests done whilst at FSP? :confused:

[ryano]

Yes there is a fitness test done at Flight Screening.

It is usually conducted once the flying phase has been, or is close to, completed.

Regardless of which service you are applying for or have preference for, you will be tested according to the Australian Army fitness requirements. These can be found on the Army's website or at any recruiting office.

The fitness test will not affect your Flight Screening results - it is an independent test. As far as I am aware, should you fail you will be required to pass it before you can be eligible for selection should you be recommended.

A quick note on the beep test: You will be stopped once you have reached the required level. You should be able to do more than this level though, to allow for a degree of exhaustion after an intense fortnight.

[AustralianUser01]

Hey Guys
Thought i would put my 2 cents in. I went through flight screening (direct entry) when i was 18. I was the youngest on my course but i got through with strong reccomendation. Its all about motivation if you can stick it out and put in the hard yards and then some you'll be fine. Apart from the obvious required to get yourself to flight screening, If you can articulate and demonstrate that its what you want to achieve in your life you'll be fine. The best advice i can give is if you cant wake up every morning and find something from the day flying before that makes you smile its probably not for you. There will be times where you want to throw it in but the moments where things just work for you and you nail a circuit or something minor like that make it all worth while when you can get back on the ground and share it with your new mates who are all going through the same thing. Youve just got to get through that because you'll get the reward at the end. Good Luck

[dmcleod]

Try not to scare young people off to much about going for FSP. Whilst you are semi right in saying that you can only do FSP once, that is only the flying component. Many people come back just to do the OSB again if they are deemed not yet suitable for officer and there is no harm in this. Better to give it a shot at 18 and get "not yet 12 months" at OSB then giving it a shot at 20-something and still getting told no.

[Dilmah G]

Wow, I've never heard of anyone around school-leaving age getting through DEO selection. Well done! :) Everything I'd heard was that people around that age lacked life experience, out of curiosity, how do they "test" for life experience? And would a school leaver (So they'll be getting to FSP at 16/17) stand an equal chance at getting through DEO selection?

[james9]

Hey Everyone,

I completed an ADFA FSP course earlier in the year and managed to get a recommendation.

Just wondering if anyone has received an ADFA offer for next year yet? Anyone else do a ADFA FSP course this year?

Reading through this thread a little I do have a few bits of advice for people applying next year..

I would advise to getting around 15 hours in a light aircraft similar to the CT4B. I disagree with people saying that it makes no difference. Looking back I wish I had more experience (basically had none prior to the course).

A guy on my course had around 90 hours experience and received the highest flying score possible.

Cheers!

James

[dmcleod]

Alot of people get through straight after leaving school, the average age is 24 at BFTS or so they say. You will get asked about how being so young might affect you and you have to prove you have life experience ie. living away from home, leadership experience and all of that but there are alot of young people at BFTS many being there first full time job

[Johnny_Chase]

PPRuNe AdvertisingAdvertising Info (http://www.pprune.org/advertise.php)Advertiser Index (http://www.pprune.org/advertiserindex.php)
Go to Page...

[Dilmah G]

Oh okay, thanks for that. :) Websites like these: http://www.westone.wa.gov.au/Documents/T45_Profiles/Pilot_RAAF_.pdf make it seem quite different. :confused: (For those who can't be bothered reading it, a quote from the article: "Direct Entry can be a pretty tough task and being accepted on your first try rarely happens, especially if you’re applying straight out of school.")

[dmcleod]

That seems to just be one persons opinion, to say that is is rare to get selected first time for DEO is a load of crook, although I admit that if you have just left school it would be harder to prove you have life experience and leadership skills.

In regards to anyone getting in first time DEO 4 people and myself off my flight screening course are now in the services training as pilots and that was our first attempt, on my actual pilots course of 18, 1 was an ex NAV, 2 RAAF techos and 1 other guy it was his second attempt at board the other 14 of us were accepted first time DEO, 2 of whom had left school the year before so I think that puts that rumour to bed.

[Luca Brasi]

I have my pilots aptitude testing in a few days. I have been told that there is 28 maths questions and 6 mins to answer them...
I am a bit nervous about how many I can answer in that time, how many have other people answered who got past the testing?
What would you say in the minimum you need to answer (and get right) to pass?

[Joker89]

It seems not long ago i was looking at this thread trying to work out the best way to get thru each step. A few years on and though pilots course and living the dream!!

From what I have seen some people breeze straight in and others have to work a bit harder and wait a bit longer. The main thing is to not let set backs ruin your motivation. Keep attempting the tests, keep calling recruiting and do anything you can to improve yourself. Its a long road (something like 4 years from application to graduation for me) but it is definately achievable. Good luck!!

[Dilmah G]

-edit-----

[Luca Brasi]

From what I have gathered, you can only do undergraduate if the job you want has it as a method of entry. Pilot and ACO do not have it as a method of entry. you can see it for yourself Pilot | Defence Jobs (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/airforce/jobs/Pilot/?availability=fulltime)
the methods of entry are written in blue below 'job details'.
Positions like legal officer do have it. You can see here Legal Officer | Defence Jobs (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/airforce/jobs/LegalOfficer/) that 'undergraduate' is written in blue below 'job details' (although legal officer is the hardest undergraduate position to get, as there was only 2 people who were successful last year across the whole defence force).

Remember that with most undergraduate positions you need to have completed your 1st year before they except you.

If you want to be a pilot or ACO and go to uni, ADFA is your only option (as far as I know). And you can only do a small number of degrees for those positions (like aviation, engineering and science degrees). You can find a list on the ADFA web site.

If you are young or a school leaver, reading threads on this forums I have learned it is easier to be a pilot if you join through ADFA.

You can find a wealth of information (that money can't buy) about tips on joining the RAAF as a pilot on this thread
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/333897-raaf-flight-screening-program-merged-33.html which has been going from 2001 up to today, so you have alot of people who have gone through the whole application proccess and are now pilots in the RAAF giving advice as well as instructors (past and present).

By the way the phone number for DFR is 131902.

[Luca Brasi]

ahh....I see you are 15. My advice to you (from what I have learnt reading many post on this forum) is that you use the next 3 years to do as much aviation and leadership things you can, as you can't join the RAAF untill you are 18. This will show them that you are passionate about aviation and have leadership qualities. Then apply for pilot/ACO as a ADFA candidate, as it is very hard to get in at 18 yrs of age through direct entry. And remember you need maths and physics in your HSC to be a good looking candidate.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[dmcleod]

Yeh dude jump on defencejobs.gov.au. You cant join as a pilot as an undergraduate. If you want to do a degree and join as a pilot it must be through ADFA, or you can try direct entry. Dont listen to everyone who says its to hard to get DEO at 18 just make sure you do lots of leadership at school ie. school captain, sports captain, volunteer your time things like that and you will be fine at 18.

Dont forget that 2 unit maths is the minimum and although physics isnt required it is good and does help.

Also the number is 13 19 01 for Defence Force Recruiting. 13 19 02 is actually the number for the Candidate Resource Management Centre which is who you speak to once you have actually become an applicant.

And another correction to someones previous post you dont need to be 18 to join the ADF as a pilot. The minimum age at day of appointment is 17 and you can apply whilst your still in school at the minimum age of 16 1/2.

[Dilmah G]

------edit------

[Slezy9]

Dilmah G,

I know its good to have goals but before getting to 2OCU I would probably be more worried about passing the following,

Aptitude testing
Flight Screening
OTS
COMSURV
BFTS
2FTS
LIFCC
IFC

Come to think of it passing year 12 would be a good start!

[Dilmah G]

Hey,

Actually I should've rephrased that,

"but I'm willing to do anything and everything that might help me get to (and hopefully pass) Flight Screening"

Yeah, aptitude testing was the part I was preparing for, since to my knowledge, SDT style questions were among those tested during the process (During Assessment Day I think?)

I was assuming doing well in Years 11/12 would serve as adequate preparation for the General Ability and Mathematical Ability test, (though I did the sample questions for both, they don't look *too* difficult.)

I know School and Leadership/Team Oriented Activities should be high on my list (and make no mistake, they are), but I feel I need to do more to get there, and so I fill some more of my spare time reading up about the RAAF and doing things like practicing SDT questions on that website, hoping it'll help me get there.

[mkw_raaf]

hi guys
im thinking this is the best place to ask:ok:

i am trying to become a pilot in the raaf so bad i have just turned 27 so i dont have much time left

i have passed my joes days and the pilot testing the only thing holding me back was the fact i did not do year 12

so i went back to school for the past 2 years to get what i need and im about to do my final exams starting next week , and on top of that i have done any course i can fine to help my chances such as going to SA to do "stealh traning" run by a RAAF pilot also another course which i am now doing "aeronautical mathematics" from the collage of aeronautical science and i also Volunteer at the RAAF museum at pilot cook

also the year 12 subjects im taking are
math methods
physics
english
physicl ed

and can anyone tell me what a C grade average is ?? as this is what the RAAF want i know i should try for all A's but i just would like to know where the cut off line is

can anyone give me advice on what else i can do to make sure i get my chance at tamworth

Thank yous all so much
Matt

[finestkind]

Matt,
I do not wish to rain on your parade; however the best advice I can give you is make certain your English is up to standard. I hope this post is not you normal level of grammar and spelling.:)

[Dilmah G]

----edit-----

[benharris10]

G'day Guys,

I'm also hoping that someone here can help me as well. Has anybody else been in the position of not having the educational requirements necessary to apply as DEO Pilot and successfully completed a bridging course or courses that were recognized by DFR? I've completed the YOU day and Spec testing and passed, however unfortunately I didn't realize the importance of education when I was at high school, and ultimately did as little work as possible.

My Local DFR office has called through to PSA in Tamworth, and been advised that it is up to me to find appropriate courses to meet the educational requirements. I'm willing to do this obviously, however I'm concerned that I will complete a course, and then be told it isn't recognized or up to equivalent standards by DFR.

If anyone has done this previously, can you please let me know what you have completed and where so that I can look into this as well? I've kind of hit a brick wall at the moment.


mkw_raaf

also the year 12 subjects im taking are
math methods
physics
english
physicl ed


Are you doing these through a particular school or a university bridging course?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

[oneflewnorth]

Hi Ben,

I was in a similar situation a few years back. I did testing but ultimately I only did General Maths, not 2-unit (NSW name). I was told the same story and they suggested I go to TAFE and do something at a 2-unit equivalent. I spoke to a few people at TAFE and got the course approved by recruiting. It was a statement of attainment in maths and science. I did the initial maths course and physics, then moved onto the advanced ones. Sorry I don't have the subject names, i've forgotten. I believe the statement is being phased out though and a new course being introduced. I didn't finish the course because I moved out of town for uni. I'm now finishing up this year and need to do a maths course again and was told about Aero Physics (http://www.aerophysics.com.au) in Brisbane. Its a lot more expensive than TAFE ($1600, TAFE is all of about $180 haha) but it is only 4 weeks long whereas TAFE will set you back about 6 months. Speak to Steve, the guy running it. It's apparently ADF approved, however I'd contact recruiting. Basically, search for courses that sound right and seek approval. The issue with the bridging courses is that sometimes there is no mark/certificate given (which ADF usually need) and most don't cover the curriculum necessary. As I said though, just look and ask questions. One thing I will say is that you don't have to go and do the whole HSC course which is a bonus! PM me if you want information on courses I've found.

[Damien1989]

Ben Harris, bridging courses probably vary from state to state. Personally in mine It is done through TAFE. This year I have been doing the course through correspondence as to do it in my own time.

Also just wondering if anyone knows if the WOMBAT test is used for the aptitude tests still.

Damien

[benharris10]

Damien1989

Ben Harris, bridging courses probably vary from state to state. Personally in mine It is done through TAFE. This year I have been doing the course through correspondence as to do it in my own time.

Thanks Damien, Your not by chance based in Queensland are you?


Also just wondering if anyone knows if the WOMBAT test is used for the aptitude tests still.

If by Wombat you mean similar to this (http://www.aero.ca/e_W-Presentation.html), then a month ago when I completed spec testing it was one of the tests. Left and a right joystick which controlled different things on the screen ( eg a horizontal slider and a vertical slider), and when a new test started they would be reversed, or put on an angle of 30 degree's and then rotated a further 30 degrees. From memory I think it went for about 40-50 minutes, possibly a little less.

[Joker89]

Wombat sucks. If you want to do well at pilot specific testing. Get this book

Master the Military Flight Aptitude Test, ISBN 9780768927931 - Emporium Books - EmporiumBooks.com.au (http://www.emporiumbooks.com.au/book/master-the-military-flight-aptitude-test.do)

it helped me. Best money I spent.

[flighthappens]

Was not that hard boys. Show a little initiative, it will be rewarded at things like OSB's.

Education Requirements | Pilot | Defence Jobs (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/airforce/jobs/Pilot/EducationRequirements/?availability=fulltime)

[Dilmah G]

----edit-----

[benharris10]

flighthappens

Was not that hard boys. Show a little initiative, it will be rewarded at things like OSB's.


Thanks for your response, but as Dilmah G said, what I was actually after is courses that are approved or taken into consideration if I don't meet the current education requirements listed on the site you provided. eg in Queensland, Maths B is the minimum, whereas unfortunately I only did Maths A. There are plenty of Maths B bridging courses that I can find, but again I'm not sure if particular ones are approved or recommended, or how it works.

Tony360

Benharris, the best thing to do is ring DFR. Asking here you'll get all sorts of different answers and it'll take time for people to post - on the phone with DFR, they'll give you a definite answer and it's instant. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Unfortunately, it hasn't been that easy. I've tried a couple of times with 131902, and both times the operator hasn't been able to give me any information. My Local DFR was more help, but even they couldn't give specific courses, they said it would be up to me to find courses that fit in with the requirements on the PSA site, which I have done, but I would still like confirmation that the courses chosen will be recognized once completed. I guess I'm just hoping to find someone who has been in the same position and progressed, and to see how they did it.

Thanks again everyone.

[benharris10]

oneflewnorth

Hi Ben,

I was in a similar situation a few years back. I did testing but ultimately I only did General Maths, not 2-unit (NSW name). I was told the same story and they suggested I go to TAFE and do something at a 2-unit equivalent. I spoke to a few people at TAFE and got the course approved by recruiting. It was a statement of attainment in maths and science. I did the initial maths course and physics, then moved onto the advanced ones. Sorry I don't have the subject names, i've forgotten. I believe the statement is being phased out though and a new course being introduced. I didn't finish the course because I moved out of town for uni. I'm now finishing up this year and need to do a maths course again and was told about Dr Steven Holding - Aeronautical Mathematics - Aeronautical Physics - Aptitude Testing Qantas - Pilot Aptitude Test - Cadet Pilot Aptitude Test - Qlink Pilot Aptitude Test - Jetstar Pilot Aptitude Test - V Australia Pilot Aptitude Test - Cathay Pacif in Brisbane. Its a lot more expensive than TAFE ($1600, TAFE is all of about $180 haha) but it is only 4 weeks long whereas TAFE will set you back about 6 months. Speak to Steve, the guy running it. It's apparently ADF approved, however I'd contact recruiting. Basically, search for courses that sound right and seek approval. The issue with the bridging courses is that sometimes there is no mark/certificate given (which ADF usually need) and most don't cover the curriculum necessary. As I said though, just look and ask questions. One thing I will say is that you don't have to go and do the whole HSC course which is a bonus! PM me if you want information on courses I've found.

Sorry! I completely missed your post last night, but thats exactly the kind of information I was after. As for getting it approved by DFR, did you just call 131902 and clarify it with them? or someone else. Did they put something in writing for you?

[oneflewnorth]

I posted that info yesterday morning and for some reason it didn't show up until today. My posts seem to do that :confused:

From what I've read you've done the YOU session etc. Your best bet is to call your recruiter who spoke to you about your YOU results. They actually know or can find out information for you. The people on 131901 generally can't give you any more info than you can find on the website. I couldn't even get them to tell me about corrective eye surgery, so talk to your recruiter. If you don't have one, you can call your DFR office and request to speak to someone that can help.

I never got anything in writing, my recruiter actually recommended the course to me. I just made sure it was 2-unit equivalent by speaking to people at TAFE and then confirmed it with my recruiter. The thing about that TAFE course is that it's actually a course for people wanting to go into further study i.e. Uni, who didn't gain the requirements or didn't finish year 12. As I said, I didn't finish it as I went off to uni so I'm in the same boat as you at the moment and either need to do the same course again (or the new one they bring in if they do) OR I need to find something similar that's approved. Planning on finding out about the Aero Physics course today.

Your other option is to enrol in a uni subject. You can actually enrol in a single subject and because it's at uni level, it generally counts, however as always, get the go ahead from recruiting before you invest time and money.

Hope the info helps, I'll post my progress for you and others.

[benharris10]

oneflewnorth

Thanks again,


From what I've read you've done the YOU session etc. Your best bet is to call your recruiter who spoke to you about your YOU results. They actually know or can find out information for you.

Yep, done the YOU and the additional Spec testing. From what I've been told by DFR the application stays on hold until I complete the educational requirements.

This is the course I was looking at -

Transition Mathematics 2(TM2) - Mathematics Learning Centre (http://facultysite.cqu.edu.au/FCWViewer/view.do?page=633)

From the CQU Website -

Transition Mathematics 2(TM2)

This course continues on from TM1 but is complete in itself as a preparatory course for a study of first year tertiary mathematics, in business, applied science and engineering. Topics covered in TM2 include an introduction to functions, trigonometry, vectors, inequalities, analytic geometry, sequences and series, matrix algebra and an introduction to calculus. The emphasis is on graphical representation and interpretation and application of the content to problem solving and mathematical modelling.


Its a little cheaper than the Dr Holding course (Approximately $400, going up to $580 in the new year), and is Qantas approved. Not sure about Defense approved though. I spoke to the facillitator a couple of weeks ago and he said that people have used it to meet entry into the RAAF.

Alternatively, Unilearn (UNILearn - Learning programs at a time and place suitable to you (http://www.unilearn.com.au)) has a maths (http://www.unilearn.com.au/courses_details.php?course_id=8)and a physics (http://www.unilearn.com.au/courses_details.php?course_id=12)course also. Once again, unsure if they are approved by DFR.

QTAC - Preparatory Courses (http://www.qtac.edu.au/InfoSheets/PreparatoryCourses.html)

Is a good website for anyone in Queensland, as it lists a-lot of preparatory and bridging courses.

[oneflewnorth]

The CQU one looks good. Just be careful though, the only issue with some bridging courses is it can be very reliant on your previous knowledge. The CQU one looks really good, lots of support and progress tests as well as being self paced. I'm going to narrow it down to that and the Dr. Holding course. I'll find out approval information and get back on here when I do.
Think I'll stop spamming the forum with maths info for now :)

[Damien1989]

Thanks Damien, Your not by chance based in Queensland are you?

Unfortunately, no.

[Dilmah G]

----edit------

[DanniM]

Hey Dilmah,

These are just my thoughts so don't take them as fact. I think that the qualities assessed in both entry types are not necessarily different, however I think that DEO applicants would have to be showing certain qualities at the time of recruitment, whereas ADFA applicants would have to show the potential to develop these qualities (whilst undertaking they're 3/4 year degree) if they don't already have them. For example, an ADFA applicant might be assessed on their potential to develop strong leadership skills while a DEO applicant would be assessed on whether they have those skills at the present time.

Having said that, I think that someone applying to ADFA would need to be showing the required qualities to a certain extent in order to be competitive.

Once again just my thoughts, it would be interesting to know what anyone else thinks about this?

[Dilmah G]

----edit----

[Blackbird14]

Benharris,

I am in the same position as you at the moment. I had enrolled in to a mathematics bridging course at La Trobe University in Melbourne. Unfortunatly, it got cancelled a week prior to commencement. So I've contacted Steve Holding to attend the Aeronautical Mathematics course in Brisbane. I believe I am going to start in February as it is the closest timeslot available. I have contacted many people with various levels of success over the acceptability of the course, and have come to the conclusion that the ADF will not catogorically appprove it. It has been used in many cases, to support a DEO application with varying levels of success. The same can be said about 'bridging courses' run by universities. I recieved a really informative email from a member of Defence Force Recruiting recently. She stated "we do not recommend any specific courses as we have no control over the content or standard". That being said, she does go on to state what I have previously written.

Hope this helps,
(Might see you up in Brisbane shortly...:))

Blackbird

[james9]

Received a ADFA RAAF Pilot offer today guys :)

Pretty happy! Taken a while but good to get through. Best of luck to any other candidates.

James.

[DanniM]

James,

Was that an offer for flight screening or for actually starting ADFA next year?

Either way, well done!

[james9]

Starting ADFA next year mate.

[Dilmah G]

-----edit-----

[ryano]

Hey all, accepted an Army Aviation Cadetship offer from the Army last Friday. Method of entry is as a General Service Officer (GSO), to complete 18 months of officer training in Canberra at RMC-D and move onto a guaranteed spot at BFTS following graduation. Shipping off in January - anyone else heading down there then?

[james9]

ryano.. Did you go to PSA around June? Something about your name and location seem familiar..

Dilmah.. Can't directly comment on how much it counts as they don't say, however I got a TER (Tertiary Entry Rank.. may be called something different in other states) of 91.3.

[Dilmah G]

Ahh, I see. Thanks :)

[james9]

My recommendation would just be to do as well as you can in school mate. It's a loooong road but well worth it now i'm in! (been applying since start of grade 12.. taken nearly two years to get to where I am.)

[oneflewnorth]

Dilmah, I agree with james9. Don't stress yourself too much. You're only 15, just try your best and it'll show. Being only 15, just focus on the next 2 years or so till you complete year 12, you'll be surprised by how quickly it'll go by and how well you do if you keep focussed. I wish I had the determination you have when I was 15. Keep it up! And remember, its not only a high UAI/TER/etc. that gets you in to ADFA, unlike other uni's, personality and traits are heavily factored in.

[ryano]

No mate, FSP #32, August 8-22/09 I'm afraid.

[james9]

Ah ok my mistake!

Anyone else here heading to ADFA next year?

[READY FOR IT]

I recently have done my YOU session and have been asked to do the Pilot Aptitude Test does anyone have any idea how i can prepare for this and what does it comprise of i mean the structure of the test is it all numerical or lots of hand to eye coordination stuff any answer is no bad answer i have my PAT on the 20/11/09 so hmmm i am looking for all sets of tests and links

[Dilmah G]

-----edit-----

[Milt]

READY FOR IT

Your carelessness with your use of the keyboard is indicative of a state of mind which should not be mixed up in aviation. You would probably be as careless on the flight deck. Not ready!

[Dilmah G]

-----edited-----

[Dilmah G]

Ah really? Thought so... The "z" is the American Spelling isn't it? >_<

[Slezy9]

READY FOR IT,

Don’t worry about the PPRuNe spelling Nazis. I can’t spell or write for **** and it has not hurt me. Unless it’s changed all you have to do is write one A4 page essay on why you want to join the RAAF. Just practice that one page until you know how to spell all the words and where the punctuation goes.

Easy as!

You won’t have to write much more than an email for the first 6 years anyway. (yes I know writing skills at OTS, but that's all about formatting rather than what is actually written)

Being able to spell has nothing to do with being able to fly! :ugh:

[dan_lyon20]

hi all
first time user. Is any one heading to flight screening on the 28th of this months till 14th of december. i got the phone call last week after a lengthy process but have finally got a spot!! cant wait. let me know if you have?

[oneflewnorth]

Hi Dan,

I wont be at flight screening but, if you don't mind me asking, what made your application such a lengthy process?

[dan_lyon20]

I completed yr 12 in 07 and applied for pilot in the ADF, completed specialized testing and was told i didnt have the right maths but had a alright TER score of 90.3 for ADFA entry. So over the last 2 years completed the correst maths and physics courses through correspondence in Perth while doing some flying (just passed my GFPT) and re-applied and have finally got through.

i understand that alot of study has to be put into going to Flight screening but could anyone be really specific with what is required? at the moment going through bases, aircraft type, roles etc. Any info would be great!!

[DanniM]

Hey Dan,

I'm also going to the course on the 28th of November! I'm glad I've found someone else who is :). In regards to the study, I guess its just as much information you can find about the Air Force in general, the job and ADFA. Also I've been reading up a lot on current affairs and operations that the Air Force is involved with. May I ask what degree you are hoping to study at ADFA?

Danni

[dan_lyon20]

Hey Danni
Yer thats really good i have found some1 to, Have you done much flying? hoping for Btech Aviation. What about yourself? yer i think thats a great idea going through current affairs and those type of topics also other things like "whats the difference between a leader and manager?". from what i can gather the OSB is pretty gruelling with what they throw at you, so best be prepared. haha. thanks for the reply

[DanniM]

Hey Dan,

I've only done an hour lesson so far and am going to do a few aerobatic lessons before FSP, but that's about it. Well done on completing your GFPT :). How many hours have you done to get to that stage? I was initially aiming for the BTech degree also, but changed my mind to a Science degree. Questions about leadership/being an officer would definitely be important I'd say! Are you applying for pilot in the RAAF? If so I wonder what our 3 minute speech will be on, do you think we would all get the same topic?

Danni

[dan_lyon20]

Danni check ya emails mate sent ya one? not sure bout the 3 minute talk i would say they give us a topic and we have to chat about it. i just recieved all my emails from flight screening and nothing was said about it in them. yer i organised a few flights and trying to do some aerobatics.

[Johnny_Chase]

Hi all,

Completed FSP halway through this year and was recommended by the Board. I have been offered GSO and SSO with the Army with a 3 for preference. I didn't have a great stanine but I believe I scored well in other areas. I am holding out for a position as Navy pilot (5 for preference), as I'd love to have the oppurtunity to fly the PC-9 and fly from ships after operational conversion. I understand with the cancellation of the Seasprite, Navy pilots aren't in great demand unfortunately...

Does anyone have any advice for me as to hold out for what I really want or take the Army offer? Do service transfers occur?

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[james9]

Hey mate,

I know that the navy isn't employing as many pilots as other services, but keep in mind that in the next few years they are receiving new helicopters so will need extra pilots!

Or maybe try RAAF?

[ryano]

Hi mate,
Can you please confirm that you have received an actual Letter of Offer from the Australian Army? If you have received a LOO it will detail which method of entry it was for - be it GSO or SSO. Bare in mind that you can only apply for either GSO or SSO at the one time - I was in this same boat earlier this year - do I apply for GSO or SSO???? I picked GSO and got my offer.
Here's a few home truths for you to help you out:
1. Recruiting has the most amount of people sitting in the pools of successful applicants all wanting a spot on some sort of pilots course, than they have ever had.
2. A lot of the people sitting in these pools have scored very highly.
3. The intakes over the next twelve to eighteen months and possibly longer have been scaled down considerably, for all services, for all methods of entry.
4. Put simply, there is excess supply of good applicants and limited demand.
5. You have received an Offer for a service that wasn't your first preference.
6. I will completely disregard what you think your flying scores were and look purely at the situation. You have obviously scored well enough to earn an offer for a service you wanted in to, but not well enough to earn an offer for what you wanted more.
7. The powers that be honestly have your best interests at heart, as well as those of the ADF. They will not cut their nose off to spite their face. They have offerred you a place because they want you as an ADF pilot, but couldn't offer you the service that you wanted for any numerous reasons.
8. If you turn an offer down you will not be offerred it again. I don't know what your chances of getting an offer with a different service are, but if you were going to get one, you would have gotten it instead of this one.
9. Inter-service transfers do occur, but not regularly, and if you bank on doing it in the future you should really reconsider accepting the offer in the first place.
10. And finally, one of the first things you would have been told by recruiting when you went in there at the beginning was that pilot selection is more than super competitive and a "willingness to accept an offer that is not your first or possibly second preference will greatly increase your chance of getting a jersey".

I apologise in advance for being a bit blunt in parts - but it's best you have the home truths out on the bare table to help you make your decision.

Regards Ryan

[Johnny_Chase]

Top notch reply Ryan. Cheers for the insight mate. I received a verbal offer from the Wing Commander for GSO over the phone just after my FSP course. He said an SSO offer would also be valid if I decided I wanted to go that route. It's a pretty big decision to make, as I'll be dedicated to that job and service for a decade of my life! I like the idea of GSO, but hate to think of the risks of getting booted from BFTS after a few months and having to serve in an infantry unit. I'd much prefer to work in an area of aviation. This may just work as extra motivation in BFTS (as if I would need any).

I find it interesting that on the defence jobs website, every pilot job other than Navy pilot is a priority job. Quite an interesting observation if there is such a large pool of successful applicants waiting for a spot on BFTS!

Might see you at RMC soon Ryano. Just got to keep my fingers crossed and see what happens.

[dan_lyon20]

Hey Ryan

With that last post, about waiting pools, does the same apply for ADFA applicants, i am off to flight scrrening soon and just say i am lucky enough to get through what happens then?? Do i get a offer for ADFA or go into a waiting pool?

Cheers Dan

[ryano]

Mate, check your PM's.

[james9]

To the pool mate, the services then skim the best ones off the top and offer them spots.

[Freebags]

Two avenues - ADFA or Direct Entry. Whether or not you have (or desire) a university degree is irrelevent. From mid to late high school develop a keen interest in aviation and the ADF. Study well at school and study the right subjects. Don't listen to people who say it's too hard or you won't get in. Speak to the real people doing to job (get numbers through recruiting/cadets/contacts). Finally just do it - get to recruiting and do the tests and interviews when you are at the right age or have finished school.

All the best.

[ryano]

Once you have been to FSP, and done the flying side of things you will sit your OSB. The OSB will determine whether or not you can be trained into a military officer (by you displaying the relevant qualities) and they will also take into account how well you did in the flying phase and the rest of the tests you complete during recruiting. If they feel that you can 1) be trained into a military officer and 2) be trained into a military pilot, you will receive a "recommendation" for further training.

Once you have that recommendation, you are then placed into the relevant waiting pool. There are many different pools because there are many different avenues of entry. The number and quality of people in each of these pools is constantly changing because new people join the pool and others drop out. Where you sit in those pools will also naturally change. What differentiates people is their score relative to each other, and that is based on all your scores throughout the entire recruiting process. When the ADF draws from the required pool, it will naturally take from the top. There are many people who miss out on a spot each year who have been recommended at FSP and gone into a pool.

To all those who read this post, I ask that you understand that the pools are CONSTANTLY changing and the needs of the ADF are also CONSTANTLY changing. I am not (read NOT) trying to put off anyone from applying - I fully encourage everyone to put in their best and give it a shot and I am happy to provide pointers when asked. I was in a very similiar position to Johnny Chase earlier this year and provided him with the info I had been made aware of.

Even at the worst times, those that are good enough to get through, will. It's as simple as that - do the tests, do them well, impress the socks off everybody and sit back and wait.

[WannabMaverick]

G'day guys and gals, hoping someone could help me out with recommending some mathematics bridging courses to bring me up to ADF pilot entry standard as I do not make this standard at the moment. The quickest is preffered and do not mind where it is or if it is correspondence as long as its recognised by the ADF as a pass in maths B (Queensland level). Thanks to you all happy aviating :)

[james9]

Hey mate,

Best idea would be to talk to your local recruiting centre, and see what maths course they will endorse. I could think of nothing worse than spending time on a maths course only to find that it wasn't good enough.

James.

[oneflewnorth]

WannabMaverick: Go back to page 34, there's a fair bit of info there regarding some courses.

Everyone else: I went solo today!! Was unreal! Didn't really have time to think about it. I did a few circuits and then my instructor hopped out and said do one more haha. It was awesome. Can't wait to go back up tomorrow.

[oldpinger]

1 flew- Not too hot in the cct today for you?:ok: Good effort, and keep encouraging the wannabees- not always enough of it on this thread!

[dan_lyon20]

To WannabMavrick

I was in the same situation after i left highschool, i went through i school in perth call SIDE (School of isolated and distance education), they send there work through the mail and you complete the subject through correspondence, they offer it Australian wide to. It took me a year to complete and now i off to flight screening so the courses they offer can be used for ADF. I do know there is a course offered in Queensland which would probably be better for you but i think its expensive. if ya need there number just let us know.

Regards Dan

[oneflewnorth]

Thanks! It wasn't too bad this morning, about 28 (40 now!), bit hotter under the bubble though (very sweaty). I highly recommend anyone get flying before making it to flight screening.

[Dilmah G]

I've got a slightly similar question, Regarding my subjects for Years 11/12, is doing Calculus (WA course) worth it, when DFR accept on Applic? I have a feeling that I may not be able to score too highly on Calculus (not that I won't give it 110%), and would a C/B- in Calculus mean a lot more than a B+/A in Applic to them? Also, would it help one's case to DFR if they took Physics, Chemistry and Geography? I wouldn't mind doing Physics and Chemistry (in fact I enjoy them to some extent), but I feel I may be able to score higher in other subjects.

[dan_lyon20]

In my situation, i was studying at home through correspondence and started doing Calc, found not being in a class room and not having teacher really hard so dropped to applic and scored a High B, but saying that calculus would be the best option if teachers are there (or your smart enough to do it of course)!!! i also did physics. hope this helps

[oneflewnorth]

Hey Dilmah,

That's a tough one but think of it this way. I'm not sure how it works in WA but in NSW you want a good overall mark (UAI here) in order to inevitably get into good courses. If you were to do applicable maths, as accepted by ADF, and did well in it would that give you a better overall mark than if you did Calculus?
I just feel that a better total mark will benefit you so pick the subjects that can provide that. Chemistry and Geography aren't a necessity, do them if you enjoy them. You can do Art and the ADF will take you! Maybe even pick one subject that provides an 'outlet'. What I'm getting at is that if you meet the minimum requirements you're safe but that doesn't mean you shouldn't push yourself. Don't pick Geography and Chemistry because you feel it will look good at DFR, pick the subjects you'll do best in and enjoy. Some level of enjoyment = motivation = marks. You can get into the ADF as a pilot with no physics and minimum applicable maths but I would definitely suggest taking Physics.

You need to speak to a year coordinator or similar to get the best advice. They can tell you if Applicable maths marks scale differently to Calculus or if your abilities are best suited for one or the other etc.

Sorry if I'm being blunt or making it sound like I think you shouldn't challenge yourself with Calculus, Chem and Geo, that's not the case, it's just that I feel that you should do the subjects you'll do best in and that you enjoy more than "to some extent". Pick something that interests you more, your marks will show it, it's all about marks.

When I went to recruiting they looked at my UAI (marks), if I'd done the correct maths and asked if I'd done physics. Hope that helps in some way.

[Damien1989]

In my situation, i was studying at home through correspondence and started doing Calc, found not being in a class room and not having teacher really hard s...That's interesting, I found correspondence learning easier. You could work at your own pace and not have the distractions of other class mates.

[dan_lyon20]

Suppose everyone is different, I just found calculus without the teacher there to guide you through certain things, saying that i did do alright with applic but no where near as hard as calc.

can akntone tell me besides flying what is the other primary roles of a pilot and also there secondary??

[ryano]

The roles of a pilot depends first of all whether they are deployed or at home.
While at home (and not on exercise) a pilot will spend usually only a little bit of time flying compared to fulfilling secondary duties. These duties will be assigned according to your level of seniority. Junior officers will usually be tasked with more squadron-based roles. These include keeping the maps up to date, ensuring everybody's log books are correct, being a PR point of contact for the squadron, being a family liason officer for those members that are deployed etc etc. Any day to day jobs you can think of to keep a squadron running have to be done by somebody.
There are also a raft of other jobs that involve keeping the base your stationed at running day to day, and it is likely you could pick up some of those responsibilities as well.
While on exercise or a deployment, pilots will spend the majority of time either planning or flying - completing the job they've trained to do.
As you become more senior through your career, the jobs you're assigned will become more complex and you will bare more responsibility.
To sum it up, the ADF is like any other organisation really - junior officers (managers) tend to be more concerned with day to day operations, and senior officers (managers) tend to be more concerned with the medium to long term strategic planning.

[dan_lyon20]

Thanks heaps Ryano

Got 9days till Flight screening so just want to be ready, I have read through all these posts, any other usefull tips or hits??? Like i said just want to be 150% prepared. Any info will help?

Regards Dan

[Dilmah G]

-----edited-----

[DanniM]

Hey guys,

Can anyone shed some light in regards to career development for pilots in the RAAF? For example, how long until you are promoted flying officer ect.? I just want to have an idea of the type of timeline one would be looking at incase I'm asked a similar question at the Board.

Thanks,

Danni

[Blackbird14]

No offence intended Dilmah, but you are 15 years of age and have not attempted any part of the RAAF testing process. I don't think you are in a position to give advice to anyone at this stage..

[Joker89]

Danni
Promotion after pilots course vaires but is put in the contract. Promotion to FLTLT is time based. I believe if ADFA and graduating as PLTOFF after ADFA and FLGOFF after 2FTS you would then be promoted to FLTLT after 3 years. Promotion after that is not time based but a min of 4 years in rank i believe.

[Dilmah G]

Oh no, you're perfectly right. I was parroting what I'd read here on the thread (almost word for word). I'll step back and shut up for the time being. ;)

[ZD714ONLINE]

Hey Guys,

I need some advice.

I'm currently residing in the UK, I have close family out in Australia in Melbourne. I am hoping to join the Military as a Pilot, currently I'm doing a degree course in Aeronautical Engineering with French.

Maybe after my degree course, I'm looking to migrate like some of my family have done so to Aus. I've enquired about gaining permeant residence in Australia, I've been told that I shouldn't have a problem

Would someone kindly outline the steps of the application processes with details of Aptitudes and what happens/ experience people have gone through during the Flight screening program. Please PM me, or post on main thread. Also, How do and on what parameters do the Defence Board select Pilots for RAAF, Army or Navy?

I'd also like some knowledge of Initial officers training and flying training in the RAAF. I'd like to hear from servicing members to give me an idea of life in the Austrailian Defence Force.

Thank You in advance,

ZD714

[Dilmah G]

(I know I said I'd shut up, but I don't think this is such a sticky thing to slot my $0.02 into) ;)

Well, I'm obviously not a serving member, and hell, I haven't even finished High School or SEEN a DFR office before, but as far as the Application Process goes,

I understand you have to apply first (Over the phone, or through Home | Defence Jobs (http://www.defencejobs.gov.au)), after that, you'll be required to go to a YOU Session, where they'll talk you through a few a things/Interview you and you'll sit a basic Aptitude Test to assess your ability for the job you've applied for, and if successful there, they'll try and book you in for a Specialist Testing Date, and after that, you may/may not get a shot at Flight Screening, depending on how well you go. That's all I can recall off the top of my head, and I won't vouch for its accuracy. Hopefully someone who's been through the process (Believe me, there are plenty of people around here) can give you a more in-depth run down, but if you haven't already, reading this thread is an excellent start, since many people here have been in similar positions and made it, + There are some very informative posts you might find interesting. :)