Security Gone Mad.

[Sunfish]

The security police have clamped down at YBHI - a security controlled airport that requires ASIC's etc. The new fence is definitely terrorist proof, and is a monument to those who want to keep us safe.

Only trouble is that it still ends at the end of the hangars and fueling depot....

....and thereafter it remains four strand sheep and cattle fencing.

But seriously folks, what is to prevent several Gentlemen of middle eastern appearance boarding a Rex flight at YBHI?

Perhaps a good cattle dog running up and down the isle???

[Ochre Insider]

From memory, the last hijack of an airliner in Australian skies was not perpetrated by a man of middle eastern appearance.

Perhaps you should change your name from Sunfish to Redneck?

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

He had a few emotional problems (and I'm not talking about Sunfish either) didn't he? :ugh:

[Pinky the pilot]

Perhaps this will be more acceptable to you Ochre Insider.

But seriously folks, what is to prevent several Gentlemen with criminal intent boarding a Rex flight at YBHI?
Quote edited to remove Racial stereotyping

The question thus remains valid.

[Spotlight]

Not a lot, if they pay the price and take their chance. {to board a Rex Flight)

[Peter Fanelli]

Perhaps you should change your name from Sunfish to Redneck?



I think if you conduct some research you'll find that people occupying the positions of authority who impose all this hysterical security crap on us are far from being rednecks.

[Islander Jock]

Sunfish,
You've only just noticed this now? You really do need to get out more. Fact is there are many security controlled airports around the country where the main barrier fence ie, 2.4m high with barbed wire stops at a certain point away from the terminal and RPT apron and resorts to just a stock control fence for the remainder of the perimeter. Some only have the lower fence even at the pax boarding area.
The need for the security fencing is based on a risk assessment for the particular airport taking into account many factors. Agreed, a person with ill-intent may be able to gain easy access to the airside area but his ability to board the RPT aircraft or present a threat to the passengers if fairly remote. Do you really think you could walk from across the airfield or along the apron in front of the hangars and just tag along with the rest of the boarding pax?

Of course, the department could always mandate that a SC airport must have ALL fencing around it's perimeter be at least 2.4m high with raked barbed wire strands at the top. The cost of which would be astronomical and passed on in terms of landing and other airport charges. Bottom line, the airports can be made impregnable from the outside, especially when you include IR sensing, CCTV monitoring etc etc. Question is though, is it really necessary at regional airports who maybe only have one or two RPT flights per day. The purpose of all these measures is to protect the RPT service only and whilst it may appear to casual observers that there are gaping gaps in the procedures, I think you will find they actually cover most contingencies quite well.

[Icarus53]

whilst it may appear to casual observers that there are gaping gaps in the procedures, I think you will find they actually cover most contingencies quite well

While this comment may be valid within the context of the original scenario (fences in regional airports), I have to say that viewed in any wider sense, it can only be described as laughable.

There are gaping gaps in procedures. Full stop, no other way to put it. I say this not as a "casual observer", but as someone who has spent most of his adult life involved in security of sensitive items from criminal elements. Sadly, most of aviation's security measures are "face value" only, and serve to demonstrate to the public that government takes this stuff seriously. In reality, every major airport in the country contains metaphorical "gaps in the fence" that render security measures irrelevant.:suspect:

Put it this way - the incomplete fence at YBHI isn't really of great concern in the wider aviation security picture, because if someone wants to get prohibited items onto an RPT flight, they can do it at YSSY.:uhoh: I'm not trying to be alarmist - that is the current state of play, and will continue to be so until we start spending money on real security measures, not just window dressing.:ugh:

[Sunfish]

Jock:

Agreed, a person with ill-intent may be able to gain easy access to the airside area but his ability to board the RPT aircraft or present a threat to the passengers if fairly remote. Do you really think you could walk from across the airfield or along the apron in front of the hangars and just tag along with the rest of the boarding pax?

Jock, as far as I can tell, there is absolutely nothing to stop them doing exactly that at YBHI and elsewhere, assuming they are armed.

And for the purposes of this discussion I am not talking of mentally disturbed persons, but an attempt by an organised group which at present means Islamic radicals.

To put it another way, has anyone ever checked your ASIC?

[james michael]

Jock

You make a good point - for a location in a war zone.

On an Australian regional airport a pair of bolt cutters or battery powered angle grinder gives airside access before you can be curtailed anyway.

The question is what are we protecting from whom, and how?

Some classic security controlled airports - Fitzroy Crossing, Halls Creek, Birdsville, Blackall, King Island, Flinders Island - hardly "regional" airports. And rather amazing places for a terror cell to plot and emerge.

It's all about 'show and tell'. The Government has spent millions of dollars putting up rabbit proof fences at unnecessary airports - to control the bunnies who pay the taxes to fuel this stupidity.

To board a passenger aircraft with evil intent - pay the fare and walk through the gate.

[das Uber Soldat]

I dont even know why we're having this argument. Its so obviously just for the sake of appearance. The Government needs to be 'seen' to be doing something. Its effectiveness is basically irrelevant to the voting public. This is why we have speed cameras, throttle locks on cessna 152's, airport security fences that only extend to the maximum visible range from a public access point, 2 guys walking up and down the harbour bridge 24/7 armed with nothing more than a beanie and bad breathe etc.

I dont think we'll see 'real' security at regional airports. My opinion only.

[Atlas Shrugged]

The new fence is definitely terrorist proof, and is a monument to those who want to keep us safe.

Sunfish,

If you want to see the most useless fence in the world, take a trip out to Innaminka some day...........makes me laugh every time I see it! :ugh::ugh:

[Islander Jock]

As an airport manager I have to be satisfied that the security measures implemented are adequate and approved by the department. There is little need to having a fortress type arrangement at a regional airport that has only a few RPT services per day. During those operational periods (30 mins prior to arrival to 30 mins after departure of RPT), there are ample security, ramp and other airport staff monitoring what is occurring on the apron and visibly around the airport. Sure a pair of bolt cutters will get you through the fence as it would at any of the major airports. However once inside your ability to act undetected diminishes in direct proportion to your proximity to the rpt aircraft.

The need for permanent armed guards roaming the perimeter and security personnel checking IDs 24/7 of every person has not yet been seen as a necessary inclusion in the measures and I for one sincerely hope it doesn't. What we have now is a measured response appropriate to the level of threat. Those measures are able to be ramped up in case of a raised level of alert. The casual pilot visiting a security controlled airport will then have something really to cry about.

As much as anyone else I hate the sight of security fences, padlocked gates and a plethora of security warning signs around the perimeter. But terrorist threats aside, the addition of security fences at GAAP airports has proven to be a deterrent to those with petty criminal intent to carry out acts such as fuel theft. I for one am happy that someone now has to carry out the criminal act of cutting a security fence rather than just stepping over a 1m high barrier to get to my aircraft.

I'm sure the department would love to hear your concerns about your perceptions of lax security and the fact that certain measures are inadequate. Just be careful what you wish for - you might just get it.

[kalavo]

As much as anyone else I hate the sight of security fences, padlocked gates and a plethora of security warning signs around the perimeter. But terrorist threats aside, the addition of security fences at GAAP airports has proven to be a deterrent to those with petty criminal intent to carry out acts such as fuel theft

Has it really? I've seen runway lights tampered with, fuel missing and a sharp increase in the number of people pointing lasers at aircraft at night. (Though I have heard less reports of sneakers being found in fuel tanks since... of which I'd only heard of one report before these measures were put in place).

We've had three attempted hijackings in Australia. Not one of them would have been stopped by the security measures in place today. It really is just a waste of money to make the general population "feel safe". However, these measures mean nothing to the general population when we see the response to the 707 flyover in Sydney.

So it's not making us feel more safe, it's not achieving anything in terms of increased security, it's just pissing a lot of people off. Sounds like a waste of tax payer money to me. Who do I vote for to get rid of it?

[pw1340]

Many regional airpors I have been to have no baggage screening or metal detectors for pax screening (and I don't believe they need to). I guess the point some are trying to make here is that breeching the perimeter with ill intent is as simple as buying a ticket and walking on. All the 8ft razor wire fences in the world, even the half built ones have no effect on a ticket holding pax. So I agree whole heartedly that much of the terrorist proofing is just for show.:ugh:

[Obie]

Golly Gee, Jock...you really are the pollys polly, aren't you!

What's your next ambition?...Mick Keelty's job?

[Islander Jock]

Obie,
Being a pollie or one of their minions is the last thing on earth I'd like or be perceived to be. :eek:
Just putting my slant on the argument. I have no agenda. I don't sell cyclone fences, barbed wire, x-ray equipment, expensive card producing machines or worse still, run a security consultancy. I just run an airport and where necessary make appropriate representations to the dept for changes.

[Jabawocky]

From memory, the last hijack of an airliner in Australian skies was not perpetrated by a man of middle eastern appearance.

So true, and if VH-XXX would come along he has a really good photo of his ex work colleague!:uhoh:

J

[Obie]

Something is either secure or not secure Jock.

Something that is half secure is a waste of time and money is inefficient and achieves nothing!

Next time you make a recommendation make a full recommendation Jock, not a half recommendation!

Anything less is pollie talk!

[Islander Jock]

I don't recall making a recommendation anywhere.
I did say representation and I am not prepared to elaborate on what those representations were in this forum. Suffice to say it was successful and has been welcomed by pilots who frequent this airport.:p

Don't shoot the messenger Obie. One day I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss the pros and cons of various aspects of aviation security with you over a beer.:ok: I'm sure you will have valid argument about certain issues as you will find do I.

[flyinggit]

NOTHING will stop a determined terrorist as we saw not too long ago, as a few have said buy a ticket & laugh at the 'fence' as you walk right past it!

My dad said to me one day, locks are for the honest thieves!:bored:


FG

[hadagutful]

The security fence at Birdsville for example is a joke just for what.....2 ****** flights per week! It is a damn waste of taxpayers money but as has been said before, it is all government show.
As someone who used to roam around airport tarmacs at will looking at aircraft back in the 60's and 70's it's a crying shame.
Same thing with wandering up to the flight deck for a chat.

We can all thank the mad muslims, aviation never the same again.

[Islander Jock]

hadagutful,
My sentiments exacly. Having grown up in Bankstown (not something to be proud of I know). :} I lived just over the hill from the airport and spent many hours on weekends during late 60s and early 70s looking at the various types of aircraft, wandering through hangars and along the grass parking without so much as someone batting an eyelid.

Just the other day we had a DC3 here and some of the kids asked me through the fence if they could go over and have a look. This was during the RPT schedule. I felt like crap saying that it was not possible because I had a feeling of just how much they wanted to go over and be closer to the old goonie. :mad:

Those of us who can remember jump seat rides or a visit to the flight deck are very very lucky indeed.

[tnuc]

During those operational periods (30 mins prior to arrival to 30 mins after departure of RPT), there are ample security, ramp and other airport staff monitoring what is occurring on the apron and visibly around the airport. Sure a pair of bolt cutters will get you through the fence as it would at any of the major airports


Can anyone explain why the timing for security controlled areas needs to extend "after" an RPT departure some airports are 30min before untill 30 min after, some are 1Hr before untill 1 Hr after ???

[bentleg]

Can anyone explain why the timing for security controlled areas needs to extend "after" an RPT departure some airports are 30min before untill 30 min after, some are 1Hr before untill 1 Hr after ???


Just guessing, but it could be the same situation as with runway lighting. It has to apply before, in case the flight is early, and after, in case the flight has to return. Someone else may have other ideas.

[Lasiorhinus]

We can all thank the mad muslims, aviation never the same again.

Don't blame the Muslims - blame for this crap rests at the feet of the Federal Government.

[Sunfish]

I think people need to go easy on Islander Jock. I am aware of some of what it is he speaks (just sit around waiting for your hire car) not everything is obvious.

[james michael]

Sunfish

I concur. I think he has put a balanced argument and to be honest I was so peeved with the sheer waste of $ with much of the security that the spin offs for safety of our aircraft slipped past me.

Jock

Was Jim Duff in the LHS of the DC3? I agree with you about strolling around the airport as a kid in awe, and even getting a look in the cockpit as a kid flying Cooly to ML.