View Full Version : Phuket Engine Failure - JED 04 JUL 08

4th Jul 2008, 20:46
Noticed by observers, B747 started takeoff roll with sparks out of the back of the engine, takeoff continued, approx 1 mile off end of runway, engine fails, compressor section plus parts of the thrust reverser were later found on the ground........

Considering the number of people sitting at the beach on a Friday night, surely, GACA have to wake up!!!!!


spierpoint jones
4th Jul 2008, 20:59
Notice? Its GACA after all......


4th Jul 2008, 21:37
Wake up?

Not likely to happen
Remember, these folks operate with JT-9's, if I recall correctly, a poor engine in the beginning, not much better now.
Lets face facts here.
These airplanes (and engines) are old.
On the other hand, if they had Roller-powered airplanes, much better. Reliability can (and would) be expected.

RollsRoyce, the finest turbine engines made.
How do I know?
Personally...approaching twenty thousand command hours in Roller powered airplanes.*
Not a failure yet...only two precautionary shutdowns for either low oil pressure or high vibs.

Further, as the 'ole L1011 has Roller power exclusively (a wise decision in my view), these airplanes are still around, earning their keep.
Expect to see at least six on the Umruh/Hajj rotations, shortly.
Reliability pays...all the way to the bank...big time.

*Darts, Conways, RB.211's.

4th Jul 2008, 21:59
It flew over the top of us as it turned out to sea, all of us in the crew room looked at each other as we heard the noise.

One guy summed it up with a succinct ":mad:thats low". By the time we got to the window it was out of sight.

Miracle it actually flew on 3, but its gonna be a long time before this junk leaves arabian skies.:mad:

4th Jul 2008, 23:26
What's GACA? Google gives me 513,000+ possibilities, but none seem to fit.

5th Jul 2008, 02:34
From sources in the know with Saudia and Atlanta.
The aircraft was HS-VAC, a 747/300 with G E engines.
Aircraft was being ferried to Jakarta to have an engine change on same engine that came apart.
Now the big question is who signed this engine off as being ok for this flight when it was known to have severe over temp problems.
BTW 411 when GE engines are properly maintained they are much better than the rollers on any day and the 747 will run circles around any Tristar.
Been stated before Saudia is in the shXXs, GACA does not give a rats ass.
Saudia and Thailand should lose the catagory 1 status.
Just look on the Saudia ramp, many aircraft AOG.
Why do they need these leased aircraft anyway, answer is right in front of everyone?

Saudia is no longer a world class airline and is falling every day!!!!!

5th Jul 2008, 02:39
What's GACA?
General Authority for Civil Aviation

I think...:}

5th Jul 2008, 06:21
TWOTBAGS: "Miracle it actually flew on 3, but its gonna be a long time before this junk leaves arabian skies."

Consider enrolling in a University so that you may achieve a higher reality level. :rolleyes:

5th Jul 2008, 08:07
If I may ask the obvious based on above.... (engine damaged, ferry....) Why not 3 engine ferry?

5th Jul 2008, 08:16
Not all 747 operators have 3-eng ferry approval or pilots trained for such flights.

5th Jul 2008, 11:34
Actually GlueBall,

Consider playing the ball, not the man.

Here in OEJN the only “Quality” aircraft you will find on any hardstand will be in front of the Royal terminal or on Apron 16.

The majority of the rest that live here is junk, ever had a wander about ARABASCO and under the old Wide Body Queen’s, rotting, leaking and falling apart.

So yes I believe that given the uplift requirements for Hajj that there will be a need to pack 500+ pilgrims into a geriatric jet to fly them for the “experience of a lifetime” and the fact, that they are slowly dissecting 747’s here in Jeddah.

It will “be a long time before this junk leaves arabian skies” whether under its own 4 (or 3) engine power or in the back of a scrappers skip.

GACA has neither the resources nor inclination to police these operators, can you imagine the stink it would cause if all the dodgy Wide Body Queen’s were banned in the lead up to Hajj.:E

5th Jul 2008, 13:42
In your praise of Darts, Conways, RB211s and other RR stuff you very wisely skip over the Spey.

They bolted on a water injection system to extract the last 550lb of thrust and to stop it cooking itself. That version was never reliable.

5th Jul 2008, 15:12
people who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glass

6th Jul 2008, 04:58
"Nobody cares" is the answer I hear from people like 411A, just not acceptable. Where is the Saudi PCA ? FAA, DCA, ICAO ?? just groups of letters bunched together that in this case mean absolutely nothing.
They can't do a 3 engine ferry because when they have 4 running they are challenged to fly as is. The sim training in Jakarta is a joke, how many times should a Captain be allowed to crash the sim and still pass his PC ?
Answer: as many times as it takes. :D

6th Jul 2008, 08:06
Yes, they are junk and supply and demand still rule in economics. But it pays the bills. Get over it. The only thing that helps is that it's CAVOK every where we go. Good luck in finding another Job.
There is an old saying" those that Know don't say, and those that say don't know".

What will be very interesting is the Thai DCA Inspector that was here last week with his Saudi counter part who approved the Flight. They and are VP of Maintenance are hanging way out in the wind. Of course the VP is blaming Benez his helper. Coward!!!

Of course this is the same fool who dispatch VAN from Jakarta with a known bad ADC 1. Which turn into a ATB.

6th Jul 2008, 13:39
Is there any word as where this reverser and tail cone were found?Thai DCA along with Saudi PCA should have there balls in a vise for this one.

6th Jul 2008, 13:44
Removed from the desert and now sitting in the AlBadr hotel car park....



spierpoint jones
6th Jul 2008, 14:15
Very nice snap Mutt. I hope it didnt kill anyone or damage property.

I agree with most of the coments in this thread. Especially with the part about GACA(KAKA) being as usefull as T:mad:ts on a bull. Maybe its time the FAA go and audit the CAT 1 status of the Kingdom .
Perhaps Saudia ought to reexamine the company they keep and have some pride as the company logo is painted on the ACMI contracts they grant. No point in just making bakshis with innocent people potenially getting killed.


spierpoint jones
6th Jul 2008, 15:54
Its always healthy to be audited dont you think? Justification ? Probably none ,but Im not an expert....


6th Jul 2008, 16:55
The reason the FAA should be "interested" is : GE engine, Boeing Airframe, Saudi's follow FAA regs (sort of) , FAA office in Jeddah, regular scheduled flights to the USA by Saudi Arabian Airlines, ect.. these kind of reasons.

If there was a reason for this engine coming apart, other than incompetence on the Thai's maint and the Saudi's allowing them to fly the aircraft out of their airspace the FAA should be interested in this event.

Satisfied ?

6th Jul 2008, 17:00
Mutt, nice pic. So why is this sitting in the parking lot of the hotel where the Phuket Air staff stay ?

Imagine this thing landing on your kids while they play in the back yard :eek:

Mr Berenji from the Saudi PCA, where are you ? oh, right, you are at the bank depositing the blood money you take from this operation. I hope Allah cornhole's you good when you meet him.:*

6th Jul 2008, 17:02
Removed from the desert and now sitting in the AlBadr hotel car park

(see above for pic)

Now where have I seen that before:)

Off the end of the runway at JFK etc. etc.

Old fashion LPT failure, maintenance program in place for years to address.

6th Jul 2008, 18:11
FAA office in Jeddah.... No there isnt.....





BTW, did they succeed in getting CADC1 fixed in HS-VAN ??? Or are they trying to set a new record for flying without it?


6th Jul 2008, 18:47
Rumours saying the aft engine section impacted the ground 300 meters from the Kings Palace.
Is this a close enough wake up call ?
Or will Saudi just turn the blind eye and call it a near miss!!!!! :D

6th Jul 2008, 19:05
Hmmm, seems what SV needs (once again) is some reliable Lockheed Tri-motors in the mix.

When I was there (long ago) the dispatch reliability of the L10 was approching 99%.
About the same now with a few operators.

6th Jul 2008, 21:06
The remains landed off the end of 32 (L or C) I dont know.

We are at 5D and on the coast and it flew over us as it turned out to sea, from lift off out to about 2D there is really not much except for a few roads but mostly desert.

Either side of Obhur Creek there are populated areas, but I believe it landed in the first 2D from lift off.

Had this happened over a populated area then, someone could have had a very bad day from a nasty piece of hot & heavy airmail!:{

Lucky boys.:E

26th Jul 2008, 17:32
I havent seen that aircraft flying since the event, have GACA still got it grounded? Actually their 2nd aircraft also appears to be grounded leaving just 1 still flying. Busiest time of year and they cant keep the aircraft flying, excellent way of doing business:(


27th Jul 2008, 03:57
Perhaps maybe a better question Mutt.
Is why all the western pilots left there?
The owner of Phuket owns many casinos over the Thai Cambodian border.
The VP of Phuket is a retired managment Captain from Thai Airlines.
Partners in crime huh!
Crews have flown overtime twice and this idiot has not paid accordingly as per stated contract or conditions, after they stretched things and operated many times breaking the rules.
Crews should have never done this to begin with.
This Thai VP knows better, but with the money under the table with the Thai DCA he still is in the collection department.
All he can get is the Filipinos and Indonesians because they will accept the regulation and rules breaking concerning flight duty times and flying less than airworthy aircraft.
Western pilots were tired of hearing they would be replaced with one of these at half the costs.
All though some of these Asian pilots were very good and did not deserve the label that the Indian cordinator placed on them.
Even some of them are bailing out now I understand.
Not a work friendly or safe enviroment.

27th Jul 2008, 04:48

Don't you know that Allah will protect these people? :} How many fatalities has Phucket had anyway?

This pilgrimage thing is important to them. While I really couldn't care less about them limping around the world, it is kinda interesting to me that most of the worlds flakey operations can be traced back to religion. I'm all the time amazed even at the number of praying pilots flying the line. If you ask me, all religion is a mental disorder.

Pilots used to have a physical science background and argue things from a mtbf (mean time between failures) concept. Not anymore! Nowdays your gear-jerker is likely to be a phyc major or home economics grad. Big help when you're trying to ac-certain the likelihood of a sick engine coming apart.

So what exactly are "the faithful" supposed to do? Swim to Mecca? I really don't want them and their TB particulates riding next to me on a real airline. If you're lucky all you're going to get is head lice riding in the back commuting with them and their secret chickens.

Please find a way to get these old whales back in the air and make your peace with your chosen employer. A blown engine or inop CADC for a month is not unheard of in 747 land.

(there, that ought to get this thread going....)

27th Jul 2008, 05:20
Just where pacflyer is religion section written in the Boeing MEL?
Is that listed under the no go or Gods will section of the QRH?
Missed that one.
Perhaps Phuket does not have the Arab/Thai updated changes to these operational regulations ?

jumbo Mouse
27th Jul 2008, 23:49
this is for 411A

What are you chirping about, you obviously dont know your engines too well and the only thing you seem to know about are Rolls Royce, most problably only the RB211. I suppose you got stuck on the 1 engine variant Tristar and now with your total lack of engine knowledge, or reduced experience think you can bad mouth other motors. I have personnally seen 2 RB211 explode on takeoff, never seen a Pratt explode.

Maybe you need to do some home work on the JT9-7R and 7Q.

Plus the GE is also far more superior to the Rolls.

So concentrate on the topic and not your limited chirping experience OK

28th Jul 2008, 03:22
What are you chirping about, you obviously dont know your engines too well and the only thing you seem to know about are Rolls Royce, most problably only the RB211.

Or dear, Mr Mouse, I seem to have upset you so.
Actually, not only the RB.211, but the Conway and Dart as well.
Never had any problems in over thirty years, with Rollers.
None, nada, zip.