Extra Crew

[kipo]

Hello I am pilot in a French company, I plan to travel to Madrid from Bordeaux with Air Nostrum, who is not entitled to the GP with my company, I have heard of Extra-crew, can you tell me how it works it must pay. thank you…

[mlindb]

Usually you have to take your company card and your pilot's license and get to the gate where the flight is departing from and ask the traffic agent to ask the captain if he will take you. Normally they do. Good luck.

[ppppilot]

Spanish companies has this figure. The extra-crew is a jump seat without a ticket. Basically is a favour between colleagues, but it has also a security issue. If you are flying as an extracrew you have to be at the crew disposition just in case they need you for any reason. For instance I have seated an extracrew on the aisle seat close to a drunk pax, to block his way out during the flight, or if there is an evacuation, then you are expected to help as if you were a member of the company. Our OM permit to carry a pilot on the jumpseat. There are diferences and some companies do not accept pilots of other companies. In spain we share the same license format, and we all know the differents company cards, so in general we accept to all the rest of our spanish colleagues. But for safety we are not very proclives to accept foreign companies pilots as we are not able to recognize their identifications.
Try to talk with the captain and show him your license and your company card and good luck

[canadairjet900]

All the answers to this topic are true, but normally we carry all extra-crews only when the airline you are working for acts in the same way with us. I´ll make you a favour if you will do the same for me in the future...

Good luck anyway...

[airnono]

canadairjet,my friend

ur answer is the tipical french answer. after u flight with them (ANS), u´ll forget them. try to be serious,men! there is no french companies which accept extra-crew on board!

i don´t think u are new in the aviation and altough u never had heart about extra-crew before in your beatiful country,so....

Al cesar, lo que es del cesar!

[ppppilot]

Extracrew is an Iberia's invention far away on time. There are some places nowadays doing the same, transmitted by the spanish origin. For instance Aerolineas. The most curious case is KLM. There are some dutch pilots who have been flying in spain with denimair. They began here to use the xtracrew figure, using and allowing it. Today when they have become KLM pilots they have continued transmitting the idea.
As CRJ900 said it is also a question of give and receive. But the transmitter of the idea through the rest of the companies is the one that have enjoyed the advantages of the xtracrew.
That advantages comes not only being but also allowing.
For that reason I take foreign xcrew often.

[Nightstop]

I really am surprised you guys in Spain are allowed by your CAA/Companies to permit ad-hoc jumpseat pax and that you as Pilots are happy to so so. Someone could easliy forge a crew ID and Licence and gain access to your flightdeck with possible terrible consequences. Most other airlines in the EU require authorization from Ops before granting such a request and even then only certain categories of individuals are permitted, failure to adhere to these rules will result in dismissal for gross misconduct and quite rightly so imho.

[pilot_wood]

All of above is pretty much correct, what has failed to be mentioned is the fact of starting in a country outside of SP, ie the problems of starting in France and passing though the French security with no boarding card.

In most Spanish airports this is possible when in uniform with your licence and ID card or if not, ID card and 'extra crew boarding card' or ' manual boarding card' - I wouldn't like to try it from France or the UK for example.


Hope this helps all.

[Captain_djaffar]

and any terrorist can easily buy a ticket,get to the plane and hijack the plane....

easily you say?

[ppppilot]

easily you say?
He alluded to Easilyjet :rolleyes:
More than ten years captain in Spain. I have transported hundreds of xcrew, spanish and foreign. I have dozens of anecdotes about. One very curious was about an argentino who bought an uniform, made a false card and flew two or three times with my company as xcrew. He was revealed and taken by the authorities.
Nowadays it is really difficult to pass the police controls and get into an airplane. Leonardo di Caprio would find it imposible. Even if you are perfectly uniformed, has a valid IB card and you are familiar with the airport. You can't access by walk. Usually pilots comes in a company car. Finally you are not to be accepted to cockpit if you are not well known or a company pilot. That is another rule in our OM.
I think the more danger comes from the airport workers. Pilots are treated as potential terrorist in UE and EU. But I have seen at a lot of UE main airports, cars entering to the ramp with no inspection at all, and workers with handbags joining by no filter gates. Really easy to introduce a gun into an airplane :sad:
Xcrew it is not as dangerous as you imagine and it is really usefull. In Spain if you are flight crew and you fly with your or other company, uniformed or not, it is a polite issue to identify to the crew on duty and offer your help. It is similar to spanish elevators. When you goes into we are used to say hello. Usually the captain will upgrade you to business to correspond your generosity. :ok:

[DinoCraft9]

Hi everyone,
extracrew is a fantastic benefit we have in Spain, I don't know anywhere else that works this way, in other countries u gotta go to ops, identify yourself, and, maybe, you get the seat but never an easy deal.
To those that see this as a risk to the security I tell you, no, I ask you to stop buying the crap of the fight against terror and start thinking by yourselves, absolute security does not exist hence you're always, yes, everytime youget into a plane, at risk, so think twice before doing it and think of changing your profession, but please, do not come to Spain to tell us that extracrew should disapear!

Many thanks!

[Nightstop]

Both pilot & Airline have a duty of care to their fare-paying passengers, accepting a person who has not been vetted or approved by Ops on the flightdeck is an unacceptable risk. The armourplated flightdeck to cabin door and surveillance cameras aren't there for decoration. The procedures in place to prevent unauthorised entry in flight are there for valid reasons. The whole concept of extracrew is the antithesis of good security practice :=

[seasexsun]

"nightsop" do you realy believe in airport security? :eek:

[Airbus_a321]

@nightstop

obviously you can not be a pilot. I never read such bull... before in my life :yuk:

The Spanish Pilots Community and the way they act with "EXTRA CREW" should be an ideal for the rest of the world's pilot community. :D

The Captain ONLY has the aeronautical competence to decide to take one of us as EXTRA CREW (and they usually always take flight deck crew members), not any lousy beancounter from any ops departement.

The management and the fu.. law and rule makers made our pilots LIFE already hard enough.

So it should be up to us pilots to help each of our flight deck colleagues and so to ease commuting, which is unfortunately nowadays a must for a high number of pilots colleagues.

Let's keep the flag flying for the Spanish EXTRA CREW institution - it should be done worldwide. :ok:

[ppppilot]

Hi there.
I believe in airport security. It is true that it is not perfect at all. Could be a lot better. But it works.
It is perfectly possible, xcrew and security coexist together.
Nighstop is saying something true but wrong in relation with xcrew.
Xcrew are not allowed to be in the flight deck unless they are known to the captain and pilots of the same company. That is a law in our OM acording to JAR. Access to flight deck is restricted in our Operations Manual and we follow our OM as Nightstop does. More than that, we are flying in the same flight and we are responsible of the security of the flight. And last but not least we are not blockheads, at least no more blockheads than you. I love my life and my job. I don't want to loose anyone of them and I am the best person to take care of myself. :}
Let's analyze how to go xcrew with Air Nostrum at MAD.
First you go to an special check in desk to get a ticket to access to the gate. You must show your company card and then it is checked in the computer that it is a valid card. If so, you get a ticket. Without that ticket you can't pass through the police filter. After you go to the security filter and you pass through the scanner and your ticket and your card is one more time checked. Then you arrive to a special gate were one ANS OPS person check your license number and your company card and tell to the ramp agent via walkie to ask to the captain if that person is allowed to fly xcrew. If the captain answer is afirmative, then the xcrew gets a ticket to arrive to the plane. One inside the plane, you must show for the last time the company card and the JAA license to the captain. And I say again, you can be accepted as xcrew, but it doesn't mean that you are allowed to be in the flight deck.
Is it that very different of what you guys do in your countries? It is not even safer than flying as a pax?
Do not think you are the cleverer of the classroom.

[seasexsun]

I believe in airport security. It is true that it is not perfect at all. Could be a lot better. But it works.


It works only when there is no terrorist :ok:
One day, saddly, you will realise how **** is airport security, once again...

[DinoCraft9]

Do u still believe that a few muslims controlled jet airliners and hit the twin twrs? do u still believe that a plane hit the pentagon? still looking for mass destruction weapons in Irak? still, still, still?

come on guys! stop eating all the bullsh** you watch on tv? are u real pilots? do you know how many private security companies were born after 9/11? we're talking about money! that's all! so please, once again go back to your fight against terror and leave us alone enjoying and putting the world at risk with our extracrew crazy-nut insanity!

Thanks to those caps that despite all this paranoic mentalities still take us home!

[seasexsun]

Do u still believe that a few muslims controlled jet airliners and hit the twin twrs? do u still believe that a plane hit the pentagon? still looking for mass destruction weapons in Irak? still, still, still?

come on guys! stop eating all the bullsh** you watch on tv? are u real pilots? do you know how many private security companies were born after 9/11? we're talking about money! that's all! so please, once again go back to your fight against terror and leave us alone enjoying and putting the world at risk with our extracrew crazy-nut insanity!


you are right man, terrorism is an old story, and all the rest is bull****...and we are safe now! I really feel better to see our stupid security agents checking if there is a bomb in an 85 years old passenger shoes or in her/his jacket or inside its watch ! :ok:
It's good to know we are asked to take our belt off, maybe there is a bomb inside or perhaps there is simply a tiny terrosrit hiden inside it :ooh:
It's good to see that passengers are not allowed to pass the filter with there bottle of water, maybe they drink explosive liquid, but anyway, the most important is that anybody still can buy lots of bottles of flammable liquids such as whiskey before boarding the plane.


I am not saying extracrew are dangerous, they are maybe less dangerous than any pax, but please, please don't tell us airport security is usefull as it is just the opposite, that's a big jocke and all big terrorist must be laughing at this ridiculous worldwide system.

[Joaquín]

Hi everyone,

My opinion about extracrew is that it is indeed a great idea, particularly nowadays when all of us work so much and have lost so many "old privileges". On the other hand I don't think it poses any risks to safety or security, firstly because any pilot asking for a ride must have passed all security screenings at the airport (any airport), and secondly, because extracrew does not mean a ride inside the cockpit. In fact, if anything, having a extra pilot or cabin crew on board could very well increase safety should any incident happen during the flight.

I would like to see many other airlines around Europe and indeed everywhere, embracing the figure of extracrew and thus increasing the strength and the links between the flying community.

Good flights to everybody!

[beachbumflyer]

Airbus a321, very well said.

[Nightstop]

Thanks guys for your interesting inputs, some of which are more sensible and informative than others :D. One other issue I have with this free-ride extracrew lark is that no airport tax or security fee has been paid by the recipient (tax evasion :confused:) and the airline receives no revenue despite burning extra fuel carrying the individual). Adios amigos :=

[Taildragger Pilot]

You can always give 20€ to the captain and let your mind rest in peace...

[DinoCraft9]

The company gets no money for transporting an extracrew, right, but gets much more safety by doing so than by carrying a marshall with a weapon (who does not pay either and is NOT a crew member) at least we will not fire a gun!:D
Anyway, I think it's not worth to carry on trying to discuss about things you won't never understand (Nightstop) you match up to "the world is safer now" sort of forums where your contributions will be much more appreciated than in this one.
We got the idea mr perfect: we're doing illegal things (tax evasion) and we're putting the world at risk (despite the improvements in airpot security thanks to brilliant minds like yours), but once again, we'll keep doing it, it's a wonderfull benefit when you're away from home and a nice colleague takes you back home and (you're gonna love this!) 95% of times in biz class. I've flown in south america for a while and crossed the atlantic to go home every time I had a few days off in a row and I am very gratefull to the spanish colleagues that helped me!

Felices vuelos!!

[beachbumflyer]

Nightstop, oh yes , the aircraft burns a lot more fuel for carrying an extra
person onboard, and it might not climb to its optimun flight level, and you
forgot to mention the food. Give me a break.
One time had a non revenue ticket to fly with AA from SJU to MCO and the flight was full. I asked the gate agent for a jump seat: I was told by
her that it wasn't possible because of a weight problem, I then asked her
to ask the captain. She said the captain had no saying in this. This was
pre 9/11. I had to wait a few hours for an available flight. Is this
what you want, Nightstop?

[ppppilot]

Hi guys.
I undersand all of you, disappointed with nightstop and everybody with same ideas. Xcrew is more difficult day by day and we want to preserve it. But to defend the idea and to spread it, must be done with words not guns. If you don't have any valid idea don't shout.
Xcrew have been used since long time ago in many places. The big difference with Spain is that we have the Xcrew regulated in our OMs. I have found many persons at many countries, involved on the flight not understanding the xcrew, not pilots, but flight dispatcher, etc. The first time you as a captain tells them you want to transport a collegue as xcrew comes a extrange expression on their faces. Then as you explain what you want to do, always, always, they find a similar figure on their country perfectly matching the situation. The most of the times they get a free coupon to the xcrew because is what they are used to do with the national companies. That doesn't means to be treated as a pax. Even at the loadsheet an xcrew is added as part of the crew, 75 kg instead of the 84 of a pax. For that reason the xcrew do not pay taxes. Because it is perfectly legal being part of the crew or the plane, same as acting as an onboard marshall.
The reason why somebody gets ungry when talking about xcrew is because everyday it is more difficult to access to the plane and security it is harder. But that has nothing to see with companies. Companies are comfortable with the xcrew because it has a double function. First is to help, just in case, for free. Help to the cabin crew or to the technical crew if need it. This is the main reason to the xcrew "because he or she could do something more technical than a regular pax" And second is a facility to their staff to live outside the company base, therefore expanding their available workers sources. It is common to all the spanish airlines, representing then an special non talk agreement between companies