View Full Version : Are there any investigative journalists left?
I was just wondering how our Fourth Estate has become so lazy.
Are they that time poor that they can only take the media releases doled out by company PR and reproduce them for the public.
I understand that most PR people have journalistic training and can put out a blurb that is sensational enough to sell papers and save the reporters the effort of doing anything themselves.
Do the reporters qualify for Brownie points for reciting these media releases verbatim and, when they have enough, do they then qualify for a well paid PR job?
There is enough information just going around on pprune, for some quite pertinent questions to be asked. Does asking these questions then deduct from these Brownie points?
Where is the next Hedley Thomas, Chris Masters or Bob Bottom?
airtags
4th Jul 2008, 01:48
max
there a few - (very few actually)
but the issue is the networks who want stories packaged cheaply, quickly and able run in several markets.
they also want female under 30 with distinct cleavages....(sounds like some cabin recruiting eh?)
the other issue that when it comes to aviation there are even fewer who have any flight deck/PPL/ATC/CC or experience so they can be 'guided' by the media flunkies that feed them the releases. Just look at that 777 LHR incident.
End of the day it's a bit like paparazzi images - what the broader public wants - it gets and nothing more
Track Coastal
4th Jul 2008, 02:19
max1, there are a few here (even one you mentioned) ...
Four Corners (http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/reporter.htm)
Walrus 7
4th Jul 2008, 03:12
Max,
There is a difference between a news reporter and an investigative journalist. A news reporter won't interpret what they have been told. They report the news largely verbatim. If they have brains, they will include statements like "a spokesperson said ..." so it is clear they are not reporting their own opinions. News reporters don't have much time; news doesn't stay new for long and they have to get it out.
Investigative reporters spend a lot of time talking to resources and chasing independent opinions to form a feature article. They have more time to do this than the news reporter does. This is where interpretation comes into it.
If you're talking about The Australian's aviation section, then you will note it is largely news, except on Fridays where there are some features. Aviation's genuine investigative journos work for the specialist mags, like Australian Aviation, Australian Flying, Aviation Business and Aero Australia.
That's where you'll find your investigations. Usually written by names like Phelan, Nancarrow, Sandilands and Wilson.
The non-aviation general media in Australia is woeful and atrocious; take The Australian citing the SR22 as an example of the ageing GA fleet, and a radio station a few years ago that reported a C182 "force-landed when one of its two engines failed."
There are good investigations being done, but don't expect to find them in the mainstream media.
Walrus
Walrus is an aviation writer who writes features for some of the magazines mentioned here.
Trojan1981
4th Jul 2008, 04:32
The non-aviation general media in Australia is woeful and atrocious; take The Australian citing the SR22 as an example of the ageing GA fleet, and a radio station a few years ago that reported a C182 "force-landed when one of its two engines failed."
Lets not forget the Piper single in Victoria. The pilot aparently "detatched its wings" before crashing to avoid a fire starting near the fuselage!
"...The pilot can do that in these small aircraft..." the Journalist went on to say!
If Rhupert's Journo says so, it must be true!
TC,
Thanks for that, I'm just wondering how the others call themselves reporters and journalists, is 'Verbatimist' a word.
If they want sensationalism, they could find dozens of questions to ask off pprune that would either trap some serial BS artist, or his spin doctors, in a lie or send them scurrying away muttering. The punters love that.
I reckon nearly all have sold their souls. Is ethics even covered in journalism school anymore?
Its ironic when they have a go at someone about responsibilty, morality and the like.
I remember years ago when Ch9 went after some schmo running a pub in Sydney who told the barmaid that she was sacked for not being good-looking enough, Ch9 sent down their 'investigative reporter' to front the owner.
Guess what, she definitely didn't have a head like a blind blacksmiths thumb,
and didn't inherit her fathers chest.
Walrus 7
4th Jul 2008, 06:26
Trojan,
Of course ... that was the big one I was trying to remember when I wrote my post. And there are so many others. Just read the mainstream press weekly and you'll find them.
Walrus
Trojan1981
4th Jul 2008, 06:43
Walrus
As an aviation writer your must find it infuriating to see 'Aviation Experts' on TV and in print who clearly have no idea what they are talking about. I watched an interview with one nominated 'expert' on commercial breakfast TV about six months ago. The subject was the proposed A2 Hypersonic airliner from the UK. They might as well have grabbed anyone off the street (BBC style) to do the interview, as it was all one word answers and speculation.
Apart from Jeff Watson, do you know of any other full time, genuinely knowledgable aviation journos for TV.
Heres the crash story just for a laugh....
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22918747-2,00.html:ok:
and my apologies to the journo, it was a quote from attending police...
"The pilot voluntarily detached the plane's wings because they contained fuel," Snr Const West said.
tinpis
4th Jul 2008, 07:12
Heres three
Surprised if they ventured into ppruneland :hmm:
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5187816,00.jpg Piers Ackermen
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5030901,00.jpg Janet Albrechtsen
http://www.news.com.au/blogs/blogassets/images_core/v2/bloghome/title/hs_andrewbolt.gifBolta
blackhander
4th Jul 2008, 08:07
I think Steve Creedy at the aus is probably the worst. Seems to be terrified of writing a negative story about Q in case he's removed from the drip and hasn't got anything to write about anymore.
Highflyer787
4th Jul 2008, 10:02
Geoffrey Thomas is a good journalist who writes for many aviation publications and has written a few books. His articles are always interesting to read.
pw1340
4th Jul 2008, 10:30
Our local news (can't remember if it was prime or nbn) recently reported about a Tiger Moth that conducted an emergency landing after BOTH engines failed then showed a shot of the aircraft which clearly only had one engine. I can understand non aviation people not knowing the ins and outs of a Tiger Moth but when they show footage which contradicts their story it makes one wonder. :bored:
Dorothy Dixer
4th Jul 2008, 11:25
Tinpis, I do hope you are being sarcastic.
Janet is Australia's version of Ann Coulter and Andrew is as thick as two short planks. Piers on the other hand, well he is just Piers:
Baa baa woolly sheep have you any wool? Yes sir yes sir three bags full..one full for the jumpers and one for the socks and one for the little girl with holes in her socks.
— Play School, ABC. 23/08/06
Black sheep are out…
But if black sheep have been magically erased, it seems likely that words such as "master", "dame" and "sir" have also been banned for fear of upsetting the sensitivities of the ABC's young audience.
This sort of hamfisted attempt to induce culturally anodyne thinking into the minds of youngsters would be laughable were it not of a piece with the efforts of the trade union movement and the ALP to ensure that organised Labor’s messages too, are pushed upon malleable young minds.
— Piers Akerman, The Daily Telegraph, Red Ted, Play School and hidden agendas, 29th August, 2006
Makes sense when you think about it, doesn't it?
Ask me no questions.......
D.Dixer.
crank1000
4th Jul 2008, 12:07
A bloke who I stacked shelves with part time when I was doing my CPL training said to me that he was doing journalism at RMIT. I asked why news didn't seem credible anymore and this was his response. What you see in the news these days is what nit wit idiot wants to see or read about because he or she is too thick to understand a real story. He gave examples,
1. Wayne Carey is more important than the Sudan
2. Big Brother rejects get more attention than Russia cutting off heating oil supplies which killed 200 elderly people in a week.
He said the only news source he would take seriously was BBC world service and SBS. The latter he added is being put under commercial pressure as well.
Simple answer was don't watch TV anymore for news. "Infomedia is here to stay".
solocmv
4th Jul 2008, 12:10
Ok Max 1
What are you referring to re Forth Estate?
Cheers
Solocmv.
The press are generally referred to us the Fourth Estate
see here Fourth Estate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate)
BN APP 125.6
4th Jul 2008, 12:52
The public get the government they deserve.
The public get the media they deserve.
One you vote in at the ballot box.
The other you support/remove by turning your tv on/off.
Case in point: A lot of pilots I know, from across the board, think that Airspace closures are occuring because ATC are 'on strike'.
Even the CEO and General managers of Airservices are saying that this is not the case.
"But it was in the paper / on TV"
We don't just need investigative journalists - we need investigative readers.
Oh - and pilots! ;)
Trojan1981
5th Jul 2008, 05:18
He said the only news source he would take seriously was BBC world service and SBS. The latter he added is being put under commercial pressure as well.
Simple answer was don't watch TV anymore for news. "Infomedia is here to stay".
I completely agree. I have given up on commercial TV 'NEWS'. When I was nineteen (2000) I spent a breif period on deployment in East Timor with the ADF, Whenever an incident occured in country we would eventually get to see it reported on satelite TV. Only thing was, by the time it reached the news desk of a commercial station it was either largely distorted or complete Bulls:mad:t. Some times there was also censorship by omission. This is worse IMHO.
The only ones who seemed to get it right were SBS and the BBC (suprisingly).
Cap'n Arrr
5th Jul 2008, 08:42
I don't watch TV news anymore, or buy the paper. I just jump on Google News, gets me all the articles it can find on each story, then I pick the ones I want to read. Makes for interesting reading around election times etc, you can tell which papers are sponsoring who:ok:
tinpis
5th Jul 2008, 10:37
Hmmmm...Ms Dicks Her .... yer name has been recorded in the BIG book ...
Dorothy Dixer
6th Jul 2008, 01:40
What's the big book? Must be Hansard.
tinpis
6th Jul 2008, 01:55
Time will tell...:=
Mr Draper keeps the BIG BOOK oop north....
Dorothy Dixer
6th Jul 2008, 02:21
'fraid you've lost me Tinny. Dorothy doesn't like the difficult questions.
To any journos trawling ask the ASA spokesperson ( because CEOs rarely come out from behind their veil of deniabilty i.e. I never said that it was a spokesperson) if ASA will guarantee that 95 ATCs will be recruited and trained in 2008 and 100 in 2009. Also ask them what consequences will occur if these targets are not met.
Walrus 7
9th Jul 2008, 23:24
There are few mainstream journos that I would give you two beans for, aviation writers or not. As far as I am concerned, Australia has only one true journo: George Negus.
Aviation specialist mags have the best aviation writers because they are passionate about flying and soak up every detail they can get. They are proud of their accuracy, but even the best get it wrong occasionally. So what chance us hacks?
Walrus