Emirates July Training Outsourced

[thehulk]

Hey, anyone out there who is supposed to start their training in July been told that they will have to go to Berlin for their sim ? Don't know if there is so much training in Dubai that everything there is full up and that is why they are forced to send guys to Berlin, but been told to expect it. Hope something opens up in-country so won't have to go, but still waiting to see. Anyone else affected ?

[Wizofoz]

hulk,

Third party training in Berlin, London, Singapore, Egypt and elsewhere has been a reality for new-hires at EK for the last few years. The rate of growth has, up until the current fuel crisis, indeed completely flooded the available capacity in Dubai.

Having to spend a few weeks in Berlin would be the least of most peoples worries, beats the hell out of Cairo!!

That being said, thing ARE slowing down inreaction to the fuel price, so you might indeed find yourself staying in Dubai.

[TangoUniform]

Let's see.....Berlin in July or Dubai in July? You need to ask?

[thehulk]

It's not the weather i'm worried about, its having the wife & kids come over in mid August to a new country and experience so they can get settled and organise the schools and be there to receive our container that is on it's way now, etc.... All while I am in Berlin - not able to help or support or anything. I fully understand if they are "full-up" in Dubai but just thought that since it is such a big life changing move they would try to accommodate at least the initial training for the new guys in Dubai.

[SOPS]

may have been an idea to leave the family where they were for a while...you are going to be very very busy anyway, without a container (and as an aside, do you have a place to put all that stuff that is coming in the container?):)

[thehulk]

Yes, I thought of that, only trouble is that the children have to start school on the 7th of Sept in Dubai. We didn't want for them to start school where we are and then take them out after a month and a half
and then put them in school in Dubai, mid-term. We are really just trying to make the transition as easy as possible for them. As for the container - not much we could do - after renting the house we had to move our stuff out, and nobody is going to be here when we finally get our "villa" that can organise our stuff out of storage and put it onto a container to ship. So, we may have to put it in storage in Dubai. Whoow ! So much to do and so little time. The usual.

[gimmesumvalium]

Hey Hulk,
No-one is forcing you to take the job!
GSV

[TangoUniform]

Whew, full plate man. Don't envy you. Hope you know where to store your container while you are in your temporary apartment (learn to say "flat"). Perhaps someone should come up with a translation sheet for all the Americans that seem to be coming over.

You never get vacation, you get leave.
No monthly schedule, you get a roster.
You don't do legs, you do sectors.
Forget your cell phone, you'll have a mobile, pronounced MO-bile(long i).

Good luck.:ok:

Ignore "gimmesumvalium". You'll find his kind are only here on PPrune. Great bunch of guys over all. Welcome.

[BUSTRASH]

Count your blessings. I got put in a pool of selected candidates with no class date or equipment assigned. If you dont want the class date ill take it man on Berlin or Cairo

[SOPS]

and its "course date" not "class date":ok::)

[White Knight]

And it's 'fleet' - not 'equipment':D

[SOPS]

and while we are at it..you have an interview...you DO NOT interview i.e "I interviwed in May.."...You had an interview in May....:ok:

[TangoUniform]

Good gawd SOPS, take a look in a dictionary. Interview is both a noun and an action verb. Sort of like meeting and to meet. I had a meeting, I met.....A little advice---Don't do math in public, don't do grammer in public. But then again, it's tyre not tire, right?

SOPs, you wouldn't happen to be in the training department now would you?;)

[Orangewing]

If we are being pedantic its maths

[TangoUniform]

Our pedantry is getting out of control. We all need to get a life, but it's too damn hot. OBTW, according to YOUR Oxford dictionary you are right, it is maths, but not in the US according to their definition (math). I hope I have not lost favor, er favour, with all of the whiners, er whingers, while, uh sorry whilst, I comment.

Hulk, it's all in good fun mate, chap, my friend, dude.

Welcome, and back to our regularly scheduled (rostered) program.

There's another one for you SOP, to schedule (to roster)or a schedule (roster).

[Wiley]

Jumping aboard the pedant's bandwagon:

....and it's "grammar", not "grammer".

AND, I think it would be correct to say that

....at the interview

...I will be interviewed

...by a person who will interview me.

Now let's get stuck into the it's / its (and the awful its') debate.

[BUSTRASH]

Mr SOP get a life.

[PositiveRate876]

The benefit of going to Berin is that you will get an allowance (per diem) for the +/- 35 days that you will spend there. Given that the hotel is paid for and there's free breakfast included, you will probably come back with some Euros in hand.

As far as your container is concerned, I'l leave it in Miami for the time being. Storage is a dime a dozen there and it's cheap. The concept hasn't really caught on in Dubai. I'm sure there must be one somewhere, I just haven't ran into one yet. And since there's not much competition, it's probably expansive. Not to mention a headache of clearing a container thru customs and getting it into storage while you're in training, don't have a car, don't know how things work, and organising (organiZing) school for your kids.

Temporary accomodation (housing) is furnished. How nicely furnished, depends where you get put in, and how much resistance your batch (class) puts up in case you get put you in a crappy one.

[thegypsy]

PR876 Container in Dubai is probably expensive rather than expansive.On second thoughts in that heat it could well be expansive!!

Accommodation (housing) is two m's whilst on the subject:=

PS Where is Berin??

PPS Thru is through in English

Perhaps the reason you have not yet run into a container is because you look where you are going when driving compared to the locals?

[thehulk]

Ha! Ha! Ha! I am very impressed with the level of response from everyone. The digression into areas of spelling and grammar is something I haven't seen in quite some time and I must admit - not really used to. I hope you guys are not the same way in "the bar". But anyway - I now digress. This was just a thread to find out if there were perhaps any other gents starting around the same time as me that were finding themselves in this particular situation. And to maybe get the wives talking so that at least they would have others around them to at least talk to, assist, support, etc.. while us (the husbands) are in Berlin.
It was not a venting excersise or a massive complaint issue - though it would be rather inconvenient. However, have just heard that the Berlin training is not set in stone and there is a chance that our training might still be in Dubai. Tango U, thanks again for your words of support and for the welcome. To all: See you soon.

[Wiley]

I'm picturing you getting back from Berlin with a suitcase full of weiners, wurst and pork knuckles and maybe even a new low-rider glass-top table, only to find the house vacant, a/c off, temp 59C inside (no idea what that is in degF), the dog dead of heat exhaustion and a note saying "F*** YOU!!"I have to admit, more or less the same thought crossed my mind when I read thehulk's post.

thehulk, coming to the Sandpit from Florida, you probably think you're prepared for the heat of a Dubai August. Simply put, you're not. Add to that the undebatable point that your wife won't be able to do anything towards setting herself and the family up without your being here.

This ain't the USA - your wife is no longer an equal in the eyes of 'the system' - she'll be here under your sponsorship, which means the husband's signature (along with his passport) will be required in half a dozen cases for what at first glance would seem to be the most simple transactions; opening a bank account; buying a car; getting a driver's licence; (note: it's a driver's licence over here, not a license); possibly even organising getting the kids into a school if you haven't got that arranged already; opening an account at the local supermarket.

And until she and the kids have their resident's visas - almost impossible to arrange in the very short time you'll be here before winging it off to Berlin - she won't be able to do most of those things listed above.

If you have very close friends here already, people she'll be able to rely upon and call upon on an almost daily basis, and if she's got a platinum bar for a spine, she may cope. If she's going to be on her own without some such support system, plan to be spending a lot of money on phone calls between Dubai and Berlin - and plan equally to not be giving all your concentration to the course. You'll be dealing daily with one very frustrated and possibly very unhappy wife.

As for bringing your container over: your wife will almost certainly not be able to get it through Customs, (especially if she doesn't have a resident's visa). It will have to be you. Even if she is allowed to receive the container, (and I very much doubt she will), in 99% of cases, the temporary accommodation you'll be put into will leave you with nowhere to put your furniture.

...and if you have to leave it in the container.... did I mention the heat? Look on the bright side - no bugs will be eating your woodwork. They'll be fried - on the 'well done' side of fried, along with all your goodies.

There are some self-storage places in the Sandpit now, but on an FO's salary, you'll gasp at what the monthly charges will be, and your goods will be as heat affected in said storage facilities as they would be left in the container. No such places are air conditioned.

In short, I don't believe your wife and kids will thank you if you drop them off here and disappear to Berlin.

My advice? If you've got them organised into a school here already, contact the school, pay yer money up front to have them hold the kids' places, (you always have to do that in the Sandpit), and either home school them or let them start their school year back in Florida and bring them here after you've completed your training, or at least, after you get back from Berlin.

From where you're standing now, this might seem very poor advice. I think it would be a safe bet that six months from now, if you follow your 'Plan A', you'll agree with me.

[thehulk]

Wiley,
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. Hopefully it won't come to all that.
Still waiting to hear the final outcome of where training will be.
Keeping fingers crossed till then.

[White Knight]

Aha - we're not this way in 'the bar' 'cos we're in 'the pub':ok:

'Eats, shoots and leaves' - read it sometime, well worth it.

[PositiveRate876]

That is why I 'manage busses' and not write books. :ok:


PR876 Container in Dubai is probably expensive rather than expansive.On second thoughts in that heat it could well be expansive!!

Accommodation (housing) is two m's whilst on the subject:=

PS Where is Berin??

PPS Thru is through in English

Perhaps the reason you have not yet run into a container is because you look where you are going when driving compared to the locals?

[Blue320]

Gents, I'm quite curious and I don't want to start another revolution but: Why all the snide/cheaky American comments?
What did/do/have done the Yanks to you at EK to warrant all these remarks?? And It's not only here that I've heard them so don't try to tell me it's all in fun on the thread. I never hear the Yanks poking fun of their friends across the pond....and I fly with many Yanks!

BTW, I'm not an American...just curious!

PS> Lay off the Hulk....I don't think he's a full blooded Yank!

[Rabbitwear]

It is probably because the USA is portrayed as the greatest place on Earth and you Idiots are leaving it . Doesnt seem right really. Your donations to the IRS will be greatly received in 4 years though.
Good luck suckers...............

[cadidalhopper]

PORTRAYED... is the key word here.

[Blue320]

Rabbitwear (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/144779-rabbitwear)

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alaska
Posts: 67


It is probably because the USA is portrayed as the greatest place on Earth and you Idiots are leaving it . Doesnt seem right really. Your donations to the IRS will be greatly received in 4 years though.
Good luck suckers...............


Wow, so that is your reason? And you call them Idiots and suckers because they are being forced from their homeland... as most likely you have been or soon to be?? :oh:

[Fubaar]

Blue320, I think it's because a proportion of your countrymen who arrive here come with an attitude that it's a given (to them at least) that everyone from everywhere else wants to be just like Americans and do things just as Americans do.

The majority of Americans sit back, keep their mouths shut and see quite quickly that this is not the case. However that noisy proportion of Americans never seem to get it, and continue to behave as if we'd all be doing just like you do everything back in "the States" (a phrase, BTW, that really annoys many not from "the States") if only we could.

Fact is, most of us - and even moreso, the Locals (what nearly everyone here calls the Arabs) - don't want to do things or for things over here to be just like they are in "the States", and because enough Americans who come here never seem to learn this, they create a certain amount of friction and noise that many if not most other newly arrived expatriates do not.

Hence the nasty comments.

[Blue320]

Fubar, thanks for the fair and balanced opinion... I do see your point about "This is how we do it back in the States" song and I'm sure it gets tiring to hear it!

Like I said, I am not a full blooded American but I live and work here so I was curious. America is so big therefore, most Amercicans just have not traveled enough to know and understand a difference out side their country. Now they are learning...the hard way. So give 'em a wi bit of berth before ya kick 'em in the nutts!

[Trader]

Not American but lets slag everyone......

..bloody Canadians and their constant hockey talk and eh's
... Aussies and there complaining about all not Aussie
...Europeans who believe everything in Europe is superior
....last but not least the Brits with their bloody drunkeness (re. the guy on the last ek FLIGHT), thinking this is their personal playground (re. couple on the beach), belief that their aviation English is correct --hmm last I heard using the word THE before their callsign was not proper ..or how about 'squak 5324 COMING DOWN"

Need we say more??!! To the American coming or thinking of coming please be aware that some of the moronic comments here are not REPRESENTATIVE OF THE TYPICAL EXPAT HERE IN THE gULF.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

....last but not least the Brits with their bloody drunkeness (re. the guy on the last ek FLIGHT), thinking this is their personal playground (re. couple on the beach), belief that their aviation English is correct --hmm last I heard using the word THE before their callsign was not proper ..or how about 'squak 5324 COMING DOWN"


Well Habib, them Brits dooo love a drop of the warm beer http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-012.gif

And i have heard they like the beach http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-039.gif for various activities!

If you had been here a while Trader habib, you would know that CAP413 is the EK standard for all radio work on an EK aircraft. So the Brits are correct :p

Now the yanks and their radio work http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif

SyB :zzz:

[SOPS]

my question is now..where did this Squawk 1234 coming down ...come from? I hate to admit it, but even I say it some times, and I have no idea where I got it from:ok:

[williewalsh]

Even worse..Charlie Charlie as an acknowledgement and/or confirmation

[Blue320]

The Brits did invent the radar so maybe that's where the squawk talk came from!

But me all time favorite:
We are "FINALS" for landing!! :confused::confused:

Now that just ain't any proper ways to use a plural wording for a singular actions!!:rolleyes::ugh:

[greenpeace98]

The best I've heard so far...
ATC: Whistler xxx squawk 1234 and ident.
Whistler xxx : Whistler xxx squawk 1234 with a FLASH:ugh:

[Flying Spag Monster]

If you had been here a while Trader habib, you would know that CAP413 is the EK standard for all radio work on an EK aircraft. So the Brits are correct

CAP 413 is for use in UK airspace only. I believe (but cannot prove) that EK, like many other ICAO signatories accepts ICAO Annex 10 as the R/T authority. Perhaps this mis understanding is a result of outsourcing training, how can you maintain a standard when you do that?

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Well Spag Habib, actually TCAS mandated that the CAP413 was the EK standard a few years back. You maybe new around here. I know some of the trainers/SFI's have copies, either on disc for your perusal.

As for outsourcing, enough said regards to consistent quality of training :ugh:

SyB :zzz:

[Flying Spag Monster]

And here in lies a problem. Someone mandates a policy, but it is not written any where, it is assumed that those present on the day will teach all that follow the new procedure. But it is not part of any training course so it doesn't get done. Same happens with out-sourcing, the details get lost. (had to mention that to keep the post relevent to the thread). If CAP 413 is supposed to be the standard, someone better tell the DXB controllers as well as the pilots.

[Bandit FO]

When is the last time you heard "Dayseemal" on the radio in DXB? But I thought....

[buzz&sntch]

When EK does the outsource, is it just the sim time, or do they use Airbus folks for training and checking? Worst case scenario would be Airbus training and EK checking, can we say charlie foxtrot!

[williewalsh]

Why would that be buzz. One of the TRE at LFBO is a well respected ex EK trainer and a splendid chap to boot. The fsis are a little pedantic and not actual airliner types who follow the course to the letter, in fact Ive still got my beacon on waiting for the gnd contact 3 months later:ok: However the tre's in general and this chap in particular are splendid. I would rather train in toulouse in the summer than Dubai.
I wizzed thru my 380 course thanks to these guys and of course Dnata.

Will the accomodation issues be the same for newjoiners on the 380 this year?

[watertheflowers]

I'm confused.

Three days ago Willie nonchalantly stated that he'd recently deferred his start date for his DEC course with Emirates.

Today he let's it slip out that he's just completed his A380 course at Toulouse! With DNATA.

[williewalsh]

Yes but I didnt say why it was defered did I? or if the offer changed did I?
But I can comment on the statements about Airbus trg and EK , and so I did. Didnt I?
Or maybe the offer came through while at Toulouse, a short cut was identified, requirements met and with costs needing cutting everywhere it saves an airfare or two, accomodation,maybe a TRI course...and maybe then it was deferred as are deliveries.
Lifes a mystery. :ugh:

[watertheflowers]

No you didn't and no you didn't.
Yes if you say so, you can and you did.
Maybe it was.
It sure is. Have an ugh :ugh:
Have another one :ugh:

[williewalsh]

Anyway back to the topic.:ok: