Latest KAL777 failure rate ?

[fourgolds]

Ok gents with 6 out of 7 expat DEC,s failing and all the bad press. Whats the latest from Seoul. Aeroplanes being parked ? , no expats passing ? , an internal inquirey into 777 pass rates ? , just curious as recruiting I see has been ongoing and there seems no news of late.

[jandakotcruiser]

KAL is suing the skipper who made those allegations of impropriety in his open letter to the chairman..........turns out Delta is also turning on the screws on this individual. Joint action by SkyTeam partners?

However there a plenty of riffraffs clamouring for a piece of the KAL B777 pie...........many managed to slip through but there are some caught on the bluff after which they will huff and puff!

[fourgolds]

Maybe a little truth coming out of this afterall. How qualified were the individuals really ? Was it an industrial action from KAL instructors ?
Its always difficult to tell. I have heard from mates there ,that there were quite a number who actually were not as qualified as they had stated they were , just jumping at this opportunity.

Am still open to the possibility that there were some unfair dismissals as well though. All is not what it seems and off course two sides to every story.

[tom744]

on the last course everybody passed, and of the current course only 1 had the checkride so far who passed also.
Seems that rattling the cage helped.
Now newbies have their first 2 flights with an expad; with experience on 767 or 757 it shouldn't be a problem.
But remember,it's an asian company with asian culture and that's quite different from what you might know but still it isn't rocket science to pass;you will recieve a comprehensive briefing from the expads once you started your course.
And yes, it;s true that from time to time some unqualified guys manage to slip trough.

God luck!

[tigerwood]

"asian company, asian culture", I like that Tom.

[bungacengkeh]

Tom, were you from Jade Cargo? If so, Jade sure was generous to let you go so soon after your hop from the land of the rising sun.

[tom744]

no, I've never been in Jade Cargo

[Frenk Boreman]

Someone mentioned somewhere that the ex Delta guy, Charlie Sargeant was sued by KAL for his expose on the KAL/KCASA collusion in failing him and 6 others......how far is it true? If so, his strategy clearly backfired!!!

When I was in KAL nearly a decade ago, some B744, T7 and A330 blokes from SEAsia faced the same hostile reception...they did a masterstroke by exposing the intransigent KAL/KMOCT checkers to the KAL management, KMOCT and the recruitment agencies. They concotted some faxed letter threatening themselves with sure failure by the Korean check airmen so much so that after the aftermath of the Shanghai MD11 crash, the flight ops and admin were cornered. The then KAL flight operations chief who was my MD11 colleague related that they had no choice then but to clamp down on those killer checkers.......guess the present KAL flight ops set up is reluctant to rein in their own miscreants. Maybe Charlie was trying the same trick but I guess this stuff only work once.

How I miss those days of " killer Kwan " and his cohorts....every sim and line check was an exercise in surviving a North Korean firing squad!!!

[dundem]

I've been following the Korean saga from afar and would value any further input.

How hostile is it towards ex-pat F/Os on the A330 fleet?

[mauijim]

Tom, a lot better news comming through from KAL training. Would you be able to enlighten on B747-4 fleet; selection criteria, training, and general contract/flying conditions.

Thanks and cheers..MJ

[Capt Krunch]

Those guys who wash out of the KAL training for whatever the reason, can always find work in Qatar.

you got 2 hands and 2 feet, can breath and blink.. then your the right stuff for a Qatar Captain. the bottom of the barrel is just not deep enough these days. they have gone way beyond that standard, so drop the chop sticks and kimchi. go get your sandals and go to the sandpit.


:mad:
Posioned by Compromise
Krunch

[changer]

can anybody update us how the latest KAL 777 classes have gone?

[boeingfag]

Charlie sargeant hmmmm hes joined Air India B777. I think he has already started flyin as well.

[B737NG]

If you call it minor cassualties, the firing Squat hit less then before: 3 guys out of 10. A new idea is born: Unscheduled line checks take now place. Asian Culture !?!?! what does that mean?

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[Jali]

It means it is the way Asian people live in Asian owned countries.

[Enos]

Hi I was thinking of applying for KAL.

I was wondering if there are any KAL expat line pilots (777) or any fleet for that mater, that could comment on what the company is like to work ie.

Organisation, commercial pressure, state of the A/C, and what the guys are like to fly with, do the FOs resent expat skippers taking their seat, and whats the commuting like straight forward like the contract agency says or a hassel getting a seat home at the end of the month, etc etc.

Any info would be appreciated.

Enos

[mauijim]

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from KAL pilots and those in the know, regarding "recent or current" SIM Checks, interview procedures and questions for B747 Captains' screening with KAL.

Thanks in advance.
mj.

[Qbix]

Has anybody idea what's the fail rate during the training/final ride with Korean Airlines? Is the rate same for the whole fleet or is it somehow easier to get through on particular type?
Let's say that I passed the screening and got offered the job... What's my chance of not passing the final check ride and going home with nothing? Is is worth giving up unstable job in Europe and trying them out?
Has anything changed for the last few years with their CRM?

Thanks!

[Halfwayback]

I have a friend who has completed their A330 course and out of 6 pilots two made it through - he was one of the DECs and made it.

They are rigourously insistent on their terminology and their procedures being followed to the 'n'th degree. Those that don't precisely use the same word / words are on their way - even after completing the sim training!

Interesting mind set!

HWB

[RoyHudd]

They'll be due another accident or two with attitudes like that...airmanship extinguished so parrot-fashion flying can be conducted. It simply doesn't work like that in real life.

[Tony Hirst]

Verbatim sop are implemented in our airline too. Seems to be a good idea with a broad range of nationalities and cultures. Reduces the possibility miscommunication.

[Mister Geezer]

Having exact phraseology is a great thing and I applaud Korean for adopting such an attitude. I have flown with two airlines and one was strict on phraseology and one was not. No guesses for which airline had the better set of SOPs!

Airmanship has nothing to do with SOP calls being accurate or not! Airmanship is all about displaying sound decision making and judgment and using clear and accurate calls will help one to display a high level of airmanship!

[BelArgUSA]

I know a little (and a lot) about that culture... Korea, and Japan.
In the late 1980s, I had a JAL cabin attendant girl friend I lived with.
When in Japan, I stayed at her place, and in Los Angeles, she stayed at mine.
So I know the Oriental culture.
By the way, never introduced me to her parents in Kyoto.
She explained to me that it was not honorable to have "big nose" boyfriend.
A "big nose" is the nickname, in Japan, of Westerners.
xxx
I was a pilot with PanAm. In DEC 1991, airline bankruptcy, I lost my job.
Many of my colleagues joined JAL, NCA, and KAL...
I elected not to, took a contract with Cargolux instead.
Besides, I am originally from Brussels, close to Luxembourg...
xxx
One of our senior 747 check-captains went with JAL as 747 captain...
His training lasted 8 months, at which time he started line training.
He described to me the circumstances of his training.
A minuscule hotel room near Narita. No time ever to go home in USA.
The first week of classroom training was "social etiquette"...
Learn to bow to the instructor, and curtsy here and there for other people...
Study verbatim the JAL 747 manuals (quite different books than PanAm's).
Sentence here, that word there, semi-colon here.
What page number and chapter name is this...
For a guy in his mid fifties, and 10,000 hrs 747 captain hours, was tough.
He made it through simulator training. Took many hours.
Then line training. With PanAm, he had flown worldwide, knew all routes.
But JAL trains specifically for one route at the time.
You might qualify after 6 R/T between NRT and LAX...
Then 2 months later, line training again, this time 5 or 6 R/T, NRT and SFO.
Quite different, right...?
After a few sectors, he blew his fuse and did quit JAL...
I doubt that he ever ate sushi and sashimi again in his life.
xxx
Koreans and Japanese hate each another, but behave exactly the same.
The friend who went with KAL was experienced as well.
He was succesful. Got based in ANC flying their 747 cargos.
Flying transpacific with KAL is very lonely. F/O and F/E only speak Korean.
No conversations with a Yankee captain, except check-lists.
Occasionally, F/O cannot speak English sufficiently to handle R/T...
So basically, he told me that he was qualified to solo 747s...
After 2 years with KAL, he quit and went to Air Atlanta.
xxx
One anecdote about JAL... Another of my ex-colleagues.
He lived in Los Angeles, and often flew NRT-LAX.
On his first trip, he joined the rest of the crew at their hotel.
Got off the hotel bus at the airline terminal (Bradley terminal at LAX).
F/O and F/E behind him and follows the entire cabin crew...
He did not know "where to go" for operations...
Went to the passenger check-in desk, they pointed him which way to walk.
F/O and F/E + cabin crew respectfully behind him.
Which door...? He opened 2 or 3 of the doors, finally got the right place.
The F/O (nor the F/E, nor cabin staff) told him where to go to help.
Do you call that "CRM" ???
xxx
Do not count on a Japanese or Korean crewmember to assist you.
You might lose your face... right...?
Always follow captain, never pass front of captain...
xxx
Domo arigato, Yoshi and Atsuko... Konbanwah...!
:ugh:
Happy contrails

P.S. Forgot to mention... but the training "pass rate" is not very high.
That is what these guys told me. Do not have statistics...

[fourgolds]

Following SOP calls to the letter of the law is no excuse for airmanship.
I have seen sooooooo many guys miss the Outer Marker check call , only to call it 300 ft or more later ( but saying the outer marker check height) , Clearly no understanding that what we are attempting to do it check the Glide slope. Similarly being slightly late on a take off speed check , eg 100 kts. Passing 115 kts they now wake up and say erroneously " 100 kts" because hey thats the sop !!! BS I say , there is no substitue for common sense. God help us if we were to miss a call , what on earth are we do do !!!

[flyguykorea]

BelArgUSA.....interesting post, and while I can't speak for JAL, you must remember that KAL is now a very different airline than it was in the 80's, 90's and even early 00's. Yes, it's not perfect, but recycling up the past 2 or 3 decades doesn't really do it justice.

Food for thought...

[The Dominican]

Why do they call it common sense, if it is so rare?:rolleyes: