Prospective OAT Student

[WQ - ingo]

Hi i'm in the potentially fortunate position of having parents willing to support me through OAT - albeit securing the loan on their property - and would like to hear from students/pilots that have been through the whole integrated APPFO system.

I have already visited the campus and have a seminar booked for the 16th of august, I have also recently passed my class 1 medical.

My primary concerns at the moment are the rising oil prices and the consequences it may have to the industry as well as the 'credit crunch', borrowing extorionate amounts of money at a time of economical unstability is logically not a wise decision.

I'm by no means spoilt or sheltered - far from it - and have lived a rather disadvantaged life thus far. I see this as an opportunity to follow my dream, but fantasy aside I still remain conciously open to furthering my education through university.

Constructive criticism is much appreciated,

WQ.

[ford cortina]

WQ-ingo,

No nasty comments, good luck.

Have you looked at CTC? I am told their product is rather good.

Also what ever the price of the course is, have £10-15K back up for extra's, Twins cost a mint to hire per hour. Consider the cost of a type rating, a lot ox ex-oxford end up going to Ryanair, 20 odd grand for a type rating.

I went modular, self sponsored (boo hiss) and now drive a 737 new one (but not ryanair), paid similar money in total to the basic price of the Oxford intergrated course.
But as you will not listen to anyone who suggests otherwise, i have seen it many times, best of luck and work hard, hope to hear you in the sky.
FC

[WQ - ingo]

Many thanks for the response, I am completely open to ideas i just see OAT as a realistic option due to their funding scheme. However i am concerned with the prospect of having to fund a type rating? Does anybody know the structure behind the loan repayment period?

[adverse-bump]

Why pay all that money to go to oxford?

most of there people end up at ryanair, where you end up paying 20,000 + for a TR. THINK ABOUT THAT 20 THOUSAND POUNDS to work for some one! The rest of there guys end up at flybe, who take on just as many people who have been through a modular training route.

Try CTC, much better school. If you dont get in there, why not just do the mod route, ok - you may have to walk into a bank a sort out the money yourself, big deal!!!

[geordiejet]

I'm not sure on the specifics but I've heard £1000/month for the loan quoted on here a few times.

adverse_bump does have a very good point. If you are going to end up in FR - why not just go modular and go on their SSTR course - at a cost less than the basic OAT course price (remember you need to pay for the SSTR on top).

Similarly with flyBe. Statistically, you have a good chance of ending up with FR or BE (and not BA - like a lot of people who are off to OAA seem to think!).

Even better - go modular, and try flyBE - if you don't get it, then go for the SSTR with FR.

Whatever you do, please take out some good income protection insurance - if it does all go ti*s up - your family home is gone!

[WQ - ingo]

I decided OAA as their package suits an individual such as myself and they offer an opportunity to loan the costs as i couldn't afford it otherwise. Yes modular may be cheaper but i have no way to pay for it and the professional studies loans are no longer an option.

[adverse-bump]

Go and sit down at the bank and talk to some1 in the know. you'll be surprised what is available! especially with as house a security!

[HappyFran]

If you are planning to take out a loan secured against your parents house, would it not be cheaper for them to increase there mortgage to cover the antisapated cost.
I am probably being to simplistic, but I would expect the cost of an increase in the first mortgage to be cheaper than a second charge mortgage.

This would then give you much more choice on selecting your Flight Training provider.

I have no reason to critise OAA. (they are probably very good), But it seems a bit unfortunate to have to select a FTO on the basis of funding.

As an aside; I thought Cabair, FTE and CTC all did a broadly similar funding package

Fran :)

[nich-av]

Ok, why don't you go and work for your money instead?

Many people are funding their training by working as cab drivers, flipping hamburgers or as hitman.

Advantages:
-Lower cost of training, over 50% less than integrated
-Personal flexibility
-You get to choose the schools you think meet your needs the best
-You can switch schools whenever you feel you're not happy
-If you can't find a job immediately you can keep your hamburger job and will not have problems keeping current
-No debts at graduation
-No debts=less stress in finding your first airline job
-Life experience from your hamburger job
-Higher motivation and personal satisfaction at graduation
-Appreciation from recruiters
-If needed, you can more easily buy yourself a type-rating, without stacking debt over debt.
-Better appreciation of your job when starting on the right seat: you don't have debts to pay-off, so you will feel more comfortable with the lower starting salary (on average 1.4K£).

Disadvantages:
-none

If you really want to do it, you can make it debtfree.
I've seen countless people do it and I've done it myself.

Good luck :ok:

[Boing7117]

I start making repayments in August on my £50K loan that I took out with HSBC in order to fund training at Oxford.

I did the integrated course and got a job flying the Q400 for the airline mentioned above.

The loan repayment is £600 a month for the next 11 years.

Doesn't bear thinking about. Although it could have been a heck of a lot more had I gone to Ryanair and paid for my TR.

Hope that helps.

[captain_rossco]

Nat West are offering Unsecured laons up to £40,000 for Waypoint and or a type rating. You cannot just walk into a branch, however. a number of students at oxford now have these.

[ballyboley]

Hello, I've just completed OAA several weeks ago. The situation at the minute isn't wonderful, but about 5 of my classmates are starting their training with BA this week, and possibly more to follow. On my BA assessment day it was about 85% Oxford, a couple Cabair and FTE. I guess you could say you pay the premium for Oxford's career prospects which was my main reason for selecting them.
You'll hear all sorts of bashing of various school's on here, but all I suggest is that you check it out for yourself - talk to real and past students from the various organisations, don't just believe all the marketing department stuff. The fact that quite alot of us are going to end up in Ryanair, some may say, makes Oxford and Integrated training a bit of an unnessacary expense, but who knows where the industry will be in 12/18 months from now! Any questions, feel free to ask.

[Adios]

HSBC does a nearly identical loan for both OAA and Cabair. BBVA does one for FTE. HSBC offer an unsecured loan for CTC and apparently, Natwest do an unsecured loan for OAA Modular. You have choice, even if the one you make is still OAA.

[WQ - ingo]

Thanks for the financial info i'll go do my research...

In the mean time how much of an influence is a good education when it comes to airline recruitment? I have only a physics A-level grade A for various reasons and i'm slightly worried this will hinder my prospects of graduate employment? Any thoughts?

WQ.

[rleungz]

Have you thought about going to a flight school that offers modular training like Bristol or Stapleford. This means you can do your training in parts but treat it like a intergrated route by not leaving as much gap between each part?

With this you can get your PPL+Night rating with the ATPL exams/Hours building and then looking at the current market?

Ric
P.S. Good luck for the future though; As for me I have to go through to university and then fund my training the modular route.:rolleyes:

[WQ - ingo]

So say i'm off to OAA in jan, how much realistically am i looking to fork out to cover extra expenses? I wont be staying in halls, rather a flat that my parents have there, (So not rent) i don't have a car so i'll cycle and when it comes to food i can really budget (£15 wk can do me - rice in a tuppaware box!) What do you think?

WQ.

[99jolegg]

The usual extra costs are skills test exam fees, license issue fees, aircraft hire for the skills tests, any retakes you need and extra hours you need to meet the required standard. I don't know whether OAA includes all of these, but combined, they can add up to close to £4000 or more, all in. Do they include the accommodation in Goodyear too?

[cfwake]

a grand a month keeps me in a rented house paying about 320 quid a month, food, car and socialising once a week or so. accom over in gyr is included.

[WQ - ingo]

A grand a month is abit excessive do you not think? i could live on about £250 month - to be fair i dont have to pay rent though.

[cfwake]

Well having tried it for over a year at OAT, no it isn't excessive! However it isn't the tightest budget you can imagine - rent and food bills (80 quid a month) come to 400, my life insurance, loss of licence insurance, and mobile bill cost me another 100 quid a month, leaving me 500 a month. Car (petrol) costs me say 80 quid a month, 400 quid a month, 60 quid off the credit card a month (trying to pay the bugger off!) then around 75 quid a week to use for my own use...and having been a student for 5 years now, that allows me to live more like a grown up and gives me chance to go out for some light socialising and do the things that you can't afford to do when you're on a shoestring...and most of the guys I know here don't want to have to live on a shoestring because it's a bloody hard slog!

Having said that, if you can live off 250 quid a month, good luck to you...but it won't be easy and you won't have any margin for relaxing which as anyone who has done this will tell you is heartbreaking when your mates are out 'socialising' on friday after being in groundschool all week, or when they go for a trip somewhere and you have to decline...

[WQ - ingo]

Ok i see what you're saying and consider you're experience but i still disagree with you.

rent food and bills (80 quid a month) come to 400I take it you meant a £80 wk? I won't be paying rent/bills and at the moment in london i'm living off £20 wk foodwise and have been since october.

my life insurance, loss of licence insurance, and mobile bill cost me another 100 quid a monthI don't have life insurance nor loss of license insurance and i pay £15 month mobile contract.

Car (petrol) costs me say 80 quid a monthDon't have a car as i mentioned before - i would be cycling, house is 1 mile from the airport.

60 quid off the credit card a month (trying to pay the bugger off!)In absolutely no way would i ever even dream of getting a credit card so that counts that out.

then around 75 quid a week to use for my own useWhat are you doing with it? I can understand going to the pub for a few but £75 week? Surely not? On saying that i can't disagree with you, maybe this is accurate?

most of the guys I know here don't want to have to live on a shoestring because it's a bloody hard slog!When you're investing ridiculous amounts of money into a career you've always dreamed about i think it's a fairly reasonable compromise? Although It doesn't have to be if you go about it sensibly.

Having said that, if you can live off 250 quid a month, good luck to you...but it won't be easy and you won't have any margin for relaxing which as anyone who has done this will tell you is heartbreaking when your mates are out 'socialising' on friday after being in groundschool all week, or when they go for a trip somewhere and you have to decline...Seems rather defeatist to me! I can imagine after groundschool financially i'll be ok to do what i want after the amount of hours i'll have been sat at my desk not spending money?

My point is sometimes you need to rid yourself of the flash and unnecessary things that burn holes in ur pockets to be able to do what you want. I for one am confident of sticking to a low budget as i have done it for the majority of this year and have hardly missed out on 'socializing'. I've travelled europe, spent very little, lived in london, spending very little and probably been out on average around 3 times a week!

I fully take into consideration what you have laid out and maybe i'm being unrealistic i can't be sure, as for arizona i have no idea!

Aside from this what extra costs am i likely to incur?

Thanks,

WQ.

[Flying Wild]

Knowing cfwake as I do, he isn't exactly going and drinking all his cash away each weekend. Maybe every other... I digress...

Anyhow, I live around 40 miles from Oxford and commute each day. I'm in the beneficial position of living in a house owned by my folks, so don't have to worry about rent. Living costs run to about £450 a month (including fuel). I'm not one to be going out on the town a great deal. In fact, during this course I became somewhat of a social hermit. I knew I'd have to make some sacrifices for the course, so no problems there. If I was living a mile away from the airport, then I could probably happily exist on £200 a month.

cfwake mentioned life and loss of license insurance. I would heartily recommend that you take these out if you commence a course. Life insurance particularly... planes do crash, and I doubt your folks would appreciate having to pay off the loan by themselves... A rather morbid thought, but necessary.

What I would say is that with the current economic climate, I'm sure it won't be long before OAA start adding fuel surcharges to the course costs. It could happen before you start, or halfway through, and the T&Cs you sign at the start permit them to do so whenever they choose. The cost of fuel is definately going to be impacting on profits this year.
I'm surprised that there are still so many people willing to risk so much money on a course with no guarantee of a job at the end. Several hundred prospective students came along to a recent open day. If I was starting out now, instead of when I did, I would probably look for something more earth-bound for a career. Remember, OAA customer services are there to sell spaces on courses. If people aren't coming through the door, their careers are on the line...

[WQ - ingo]

Yes i think the life insurance will be high on the agenda but as far as my budget goes i feel i'm fairly safe saying £200/250 month..

Have you any idea idea of the costs over in the U.S?

I took this from the website:

The following are included in the Course Price:
Complete ATPL(A) Integrated Course
Accommodation at OAA Goodyear
Skills Security – Money Back Guarantee
Employment Services
Extra-Curricular Activities
Skills Development Training
Bank funding assistance
All OAA Training Manuals & IFR Guides
Navigation, Approach & Landing Fees
Planning and Navigation Equipment
OAA Uniform & Leather Flight Bag
Aircrew Headset
Return flights from London to Phoenix
Travel insurance
Emergency medical insurance at Goodyear
Graduation & Awards LuncheonThe following are additional:
Accommodation at Oxford
Meals at Oxford & Goodyear
UK CAA Skills Tests & Licence Issue Fees
JAA Medical renewalNow we've sorted out the accom and meals at ox, not goodyear.

Anyone know how much the other two are likely to set me back?

Also came across this on the price page;

APPFO Regulatory and Exam Fees (price effective from 1st October 2008) £5,000

Anyone got any ideas as to what this is?

I can understand with what you're saying regarding the industry but it's like most things, you never know until you try.. This is my dream and it's now of never.. I chose OAA as it's best suited to me as an individual and will need all the help i can get! I don't think i have the capacity to go modular!

Regards,

WQ.

[Shiver me timbers!]

- Class One medical is approx £317.
- License fee issuances will easily come to £500+ inc. ratings.


Also, ask about aircraft hire for tests - this could easily be an additional £600+. What about Visas? Bristol Q bank? Oh yeah - don't forget your type rating for Ryanair - that's an additional £20k :p

I'm sure there are quite a few other hidden extras. All prices are based on completing course in minimum time - It would be a massive gamble to not budget for additional hours.

[WQ - ingo]

The type rating does set me back - possibly out of my limits? Possibly Flybe or BA are possible options?

Up until monday june 30th 112 graduates in 2008 have found employment with the airlines. Now i'm not sure out of how many graduates the 112 stood so cant be sure as to the % employment rate. Maybe if anyone knows how many on average are taken on per month/few months - however it works - it would give me a basic idea?

[99jolegg]

Yes they are possible, but the odds are low, so it's a gamble of £80,000.

[Rhodes13]

WQ - ingo you seem to like ignoring advice given to you.

200 pounds a month is being extremely optimistic. Oxford is an expensive place and I can almost guarantee that you should budget about 300 pounds minimum a month. Riding to school whilst a nice though could be impractical in the heavy rain and cold of winter, and have you given a though to the weight of those books you'll be lugging around?

Then there is the problem of passing all flying on minimum time. Its not uncommon to partial pass the IR so then youll have to budget on yet more money to get more hours and more test fees up to the required standard.

Like its been said before you will be entering the industry at the worst time. Have you budgeted on no job for 6 months? How will you pay mum and dad back?

I wish that Oxford students would get BA out of their head. Your chances of getting a job their are slim. It would be much more prudent to plan on getting no job at all or taking the FIRST job you are given the chance to join. Interesting fact but the majority of current students are going to the low cost carriers.

One has to ask why you want to go to OAA. They produce the same product and they charge a premium for it. You would be much better placed to go modular and save that money. Especially seeing as its your mum and dads house that is at stake.

[cfwake]

WQ, as far as budgeting per month, it doesn't really bother me too much, it is doable but it is very optimistic and you won't have much chance to relax and unwind which leaves you feeling left out of your course. But if you'd be unable to afford to fund your own type rating and you know this for a fact now, why are you forging ahead with the course?! You will have a strong probability of going somewhere where paying your own TR will be necessary, and you'll feel rpetty hacked off when you end up unemployed because you relied on getting a job where you didn't pay for it!

Seriously, it's not a good time to start training, the time is actually NOT now or never, it's more than likely NEXT year or never. You could always get a job, earn money so you can boost your savings then going onto the course when you see the industry is at the beginning of the upslope? Look at the past troughs in the industry. How long until the airlines recovered? Planning is key.

Also yes, up till now employment at OAA has pretty much been as strong and positive as ever. What about over the next six months? Are you going to bet that they'll stay linear?!

[Raving RHAG Muncher]

Yet another person brainwashed by the Oxford mob. Do yourself a favour, open your ears and take some advice.

Pull your head out of the clouds and re-think your budget. You are away with the cuckoos, otherwise you can come around here and sort my budget out. I must be doing something wrong!

I remember being in your position - there was nothing I wanted more than a flying career. Don't be blinded by the lights though. It is a lot of money and a shady outlook at the moment. I not sure I'd do it all over again, not at the present time anyway.

Best of luck.

[WQ - ingo]

Rhodes13: (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/74151-rhodes13)200 pounds a month is being extremely optimistic. Oxford is an expensive place and I can almost guarantee that you should budget about 300 pounds minimum a monthWell considering i budgeted £250, not far off.

Riding to school whilst a nice though could be impractical in the heavy rain and cold of winter, and have you given a though to the weight of those books you'll be lugging around?I don't see your point? It's a mile! Throughout this year i've cycled rain, sleet or snow across central london to get to the library carrying copious amounts of heavy books everyday!


Then there is the problem of passing all flying on minimum time. Its not uncommon to partial pass the IR so then youll have to budget on yet more money to get more hours and more test fees up to the required standard.That i agree with which is why i asked..

Like its been said before you will be entering the industry at the worst time. Have you budgeted on no job for 6 months? How will you pay mum and dad back?This is my main concern.

I wish that Oxford students would get BA out of their head. Your chances of getting a job their are slim. It would be much more prudent to plan on getting no job at all or taking the FIRST job you are given the chance to join. Interesting fact but the majority of current students are going to the low cost carriers.
I don't have BA in my head and will accept any airline job, All APPFO cadets are considered by BA for the SSP though..

cfwake (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/32918-cfwake):But if you'd be unable to afford to fund your own type rating and you know this for a fact now, why are you forging ahead with the course?! You will have a strong probability of going somewhere where paying your own TR will be necessary, and you'll feel rpetty hacked off when you end up unemployed because you relied on getting a job where you didn't pay for it!This area is my main concern and the fact that i probably couldn't afford a TR indeed worries me..

Also yes, up till now employment at OAA has pretty much been as strong and positive as ever. What about over the next six months? Are you going to bet that they'll stay linear?!If i start training in jan it won't be until 2010 that i start job hunting.

Raving RHAG Muncher (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/210789-raving-rhag-muncher): Yet another person brainwashed by the Oxford mob. Do yourself a favour, open your ears and take some advice...... slightly unnecessary? Constructive criticism goes along way rather than idiotic patronizing.

So the general consensus i get is that oaa is a bad idea, unless you have a pot of gold to hand over to which ever airine comes knocking, and that now is not the right time to begin training in our current unsustainable industry?

Regards,

WQ.

[cfwake]

In my opinion, OAA is a good choice, the timing for going is a bad one!!!

[Flying Wild]

So the general consensus i get is that oaa is a bad idea, unless you have a pot of gold to hand over to which ever airine comes knocking, and that now is not the right time to begin training in our current unsustainable industry?


I wouldn't say that it is OAA itself which is a bad idea, you could lump going to CTC or Cabair into the same boat - it is intergrated training which is the potential issue here.
As I've said, if I were to be considering going for an intergrated course at one of the organisations mentioned, I'd be taking a long hard look at potential outcomes and contingencies. Odds are that I personally wouldn't go through with it as things stand now.

At the end of the day, you should conduct the research and make the choice yourself. Asking the question here is a step in the right direction.

[Flying Wild]

In my opinion, OAA is a good choice, the timing for going is a bad one!!!


You would say that though, wouldn't you... Think you've got something on your nose there mate... :)

[cfwake]

That's the smell of desire, m'lady!

[WQ - ingo]

Yes i agree with you on that one.. maybe a should put it off for the next few years and go earn some money.. :hmm:

[Togodumnus]

If money is literally not an issue for you and an airline career is what you want then OAT is probably best place to go (though have not heard any bad words for CTC), but only if money is no object!

I'm on the modular route and at the end of both our training we will have exactly the same licence and many others I know who have completed their training (by modular) through to a type rating are working in the right hand seat for differing airlines. Also at the end of my training I'll have spent probably less than half of the dosh that you'll give to Oxford!

All schools pretend to have a great association with an airline or operator, maybe they do maybe they don't and it is only a very, very lucky few who come through at the right time that will benefit.

[MIKECR]

About the most likely outcome of going to OAA jus now is a job with Ryanair. I think there stats for this year tell it all. Thats 70 to 80 k for your course, and anothe 25 k for your TR. Theres also no pay for the first 3 months, only half pay for the next 6 months.

Thats 100k you'll be spending. As a slight aside, Ryanair dont give a monkeys 2 hoots what kind(modular/integrated) of student they take. save your cash and go modular given the current climate. You'll get the same job at the end of the day

[charliejulietthotel]

How big is the flat in kiddles? if it's more than a one bedroom, consider getting a flat mate, money they bring in, you can afford the beers! one week in HMP Langford and people are desperate for out, so you might actually be able to make money, a first at OAT! good luck in your decision.

[Night_fr8]

Having read all to pro's and con's here, I feel that a parents viewpoint is probably valid.
I have just supported my son through OAA at a monthly allowance for rent, bills, food etc of £650 per month, reducing to £250 or $450 per month in Phoenix.
Most months this was adequate but remember that letting agencies require a deposit (refundable).
Training was exceptionally good, both at the Ground School and Flying stages (Phoenix). MCC / JOT was probably the phase which prepared my son most for the job market, and by the time he had finished he was facing 3 interviews.

A good comment was to place the training costs as a second mortgage where possible, £75000 costing about £450 per month interest only.

I have commented before on the merits of OAA against other providers, so i will not say more here, than the best route is integrated.
The reason for this is that JAA regulators are now stipulating a maximum of two training establishments for the modular route, so as to provide oversight by the respective Aviation authorities and monitoring of standards.
When this comes into effect it will change the face of the modular route.

By the time a new entrant into OAA, FTE or Cabair completes his or her training in 2010 the market could have changed again, but there will be severe cut backs this winter, and the current pilot shortage worldwide could become a surplus while the market absorbs the current cost increases.

As for the self sponsored type rating route this I am afraid to say is here to stay and good advice is to consider that as part of your budget.
If you dont need it Big Plus, but if you do it will not come as a shock.

Final thought is that the total cost including everything (no TR) will be in the region of £90000 by the end of 2010.
The £ to € rate and £ to US$ will change probably to the lowering in the value of £ Sterling.

Dont put off your dream. Be prepared for the hardest 17 months of your life but its only your motivation and family support that will get you through.

[MIKECR]

I wonder where the money will come from. Perhpaps only the rich kids will be going integrated in the years to come

[ElCapitano8]

What is the current full integrated price at oxford?

WQ, I'd say 250 a month is enough to live off. budget 300-600 for accommodation it can vary quite a bit.

As for the whole integrated-modular debate, one of the top 'newbie' recruiters showed a list of where they get their pilots from the other day and modular students were right at the bottom....

[Night_fr8]

MIKECR

The modular route will change so much that there will be little change in the overall costs.
JAA regulators will be imposing changes soon, one of which is that any person training another for a particular type of licence must themselves hold a licence approved by that regulatory body i.e. an FAA instructor will not be allowed to train a student for a JAA licence without holding one him / herself

If you think we are rich think again, my wife and I were prepared to help finance our son's dream even if it meant reducing our standard of living.

He is paying us / the mortgage back, and yes he is SSTR also included in the mortgage.

I never doubted his motivation, so putting up the money was a risk we were prepared to take, and the results have proved the trust.

Integrated is the better way to go, and if you talk to recruiters they prefer that route in those with less than 500 hours.

[MIKECR]

night_fr8

I wasnt questioning your finances. You stated that you think integrated training costs will rise to 90k by 2010, so I was simply asking or even commenting as to how people will come by that sort of money in the future. Training costs have become ridiculously expensive and by all accounts will continue to rise.

Whether indegrated is the better route is open to debate.

[BerksFlyer]

The modular route will change so much that there will be little change in the overall costs.

It won't really. Plenty of people already train modularly at one or two schools only.

[Adios]

Berksflyer,

I think you missed Night_FR8's point.

Yes, many modular students train at one or two schools, but many of them are in the States using FAA instructors. Once these must obtain JAA ratings, the cost of delivering modular will go up a good bit.

It will also drive cost of Integrated upward, but most of the integrated schools have half or more JAA rated instructors already and they also have the ability to provide the conversion training in house at cost.

I wonder how many modular FTO's in the States will pay for conversion for their instructors. How many instructors will foot the £10K bill themselves just to keep instructing at low salaries?

[Tootles the Taxi]

Night_fr8

JAA regulators will be imposing changes soon, one of which is that any person training another for a particular type of licence must themselves hold a licence approved by that regulatory body i.e. an FAA instructor will not be allowed to train a student for a JAA licence without holding one him / herself

The suggestion from EASA is that by the time this is implemented there should exist licencing reciprocity between FAA & the EASA states - i.e. an FAA CPL holder would be entitled to an EASA CPL in much the same way as PPL's are currently.

Hence, it should be no more than a paperwork exercise.

[Alex Whittingham]

Under the EASA proposals instructors need to hold a JAA license, not just an FI rating on an FAA license. The FAA have point blank refused to consider licensing reciprocity. In addition, although existing JAA rated instructors will be allowed to continue, the grandfather rights will apply to the instructors themselves, not the FTO, so, although the FTOs training in the US will be OK initially it will be a growing problem for them.

[Alex Whittingham]

To be fair my info is two months old. I think it's because the Americans don't want people training for FAA commercial licenses outside the US.