B cargo difficulties

[xplane2]

I've been told cargo B will maybe stop all operations next week...:eek: any info about that?:confused:

[The Sandman]

Bcargo or Cargo B (brussels)?

[xplane2]

Cargo B (brussels)

[corbulus]

apparentlyl mk airline(freight) has also 'stopped' flying due to the high fuel price and awaits an injection of capital...has anyone heard anything more

[Whossat Forrus]

It seems that Cargo B are stopping the Brussells operation and moving somewhere else. Some of the crews know something but all staying very quiet. There's a big big connection with DHL somewhere, from earwigging a conversation but I can't figure out how. Two of the guys were laughing about all being on the same side now!! Maybe just the Belgian Exchequer and his punitive tax regime pushed them out but I think it's deeper than that.

[413X3]

Didn't MK restart ops last week?

[KwikFly]

yes they did. My loadie was foreseen on one of their flights

[744rules]

I will check the info, but I think one of their a/c is scheduled for a d-check very soon

[Coleman Myers]

Its a shame - they brought some competition to the market and jobs !. Hope they sort it out like MK did !. :sad:

[belgianconnection]

There is nothing wrong with Cargo B := , they have a ship that is going in D check for the summer (until sept) . At the moment they are flying full loads and are in a active search of a third aircraft. :ok:

[charter man]

You seem to be in the know Belgianconnection, what of the word that the -200 won't come out of the hangar at all, but may be replaced with something else? a -400 perhaps?

[ScootCargoOps]

Mentions Cargo B, but i'm guessing they have the wrong information???



Welcome To Air Cargo World -- Breaking News (http://www.aircargoworld.com/break_news/07032008b.htm)

[belgianconnection]

yep wrong info, they stand to be corrected.:ugh:
btw they are looking at accelerated 400 entry due to high feul prices but would prefer to fly the 200 until planned date of exit (it was all in the dutch website luchtvaartnieuws)

[Freight Expectations]

From what I have been told, the third Cargo B aircraft (VP-BIB from AirBridge Cargo) has been returned and Cargo B will continue with two. One currently in maintenance and one flying.

[belgianconnection]

No not at all, VP-BIB has been rejected by cargo B airlines because the russians practically demolished the aircraft while flying it, it was technically not in a good condition. Thats why Cargo B is still looking for a third aircraft to fly by ocktober. VP-BIB was flown to chateauroux in France after the rejection last month.

[Freight Expectations]

Sorry, that's what I meant to convey, that VP-BIB had been returned to ABC not to Cargo B

[charter man]

The cargo market is pretty busy at the moment, yet seems Cargo B have aircraft availble for charters, so doesn't sound to me like they are "flying full"???

[belgianconnection]

Cargo B does fly 3 rotations to South America a week this still leaves room for charters. I can only say that the aircraft is always full when I see it and thats what we get back as feeback from the loadies aswell.

[torghabe]

Fortunately, you dont know technical condition VP-BIB and VP-BIA, when we took them from AlItalia in 2004.

[belgianconnection]

that means you flew for 3 to 4 years with those things in a bad technical condition.???????
The stories we heard from the LH tech guys were not funny.

[torghabe]

Can you explane a bit more "those thinks"? According with contract LH Technic is responsible for technical condition ("bad technical condition"). So, you knew, during preflight check I cant calculate all nuts, but if I dont want take the plane (due to difficulties, high oil prices, no markets, etc), I will find a lot of reason reject the plane. In this case "bad technical condition"- most winning version, especially as the plane 20 years old.

[belgianconnection]

Believe me my friend when our second aircraft came from russia it took a lot of maintenance and a lot of sudden problems comming up in flight..... which where odd ,that took time to repair now after a couple of months its up to standards, after inspection the third aircraft was even in a worse condition than the second so management rejected it. Now they are looking for a 3th aircraft urgently because the market is there and trafficload is high.
btw it is not because an aircaft is 20 years old it should be in bad condition.:=

[TRIM-RUN]

I cant believe an aircraft rejection had nothing to do with the airframe or engines not living up to the agreed return from lease contract. Still can be rectified. The party returning the aircraft will have a period of time to correct the outstanding items and then redeliver the aircraft.

No reason after that to not accept the aircraft unless the managment screwed up and did not include a clause stipulating minimum cycles remaining on each engine at return..........:\

[acmi48]

i dont think you will find many 20 year old classics (mostly 25 yrs old or more )- except possibly -300's
the 400f is already 15 years in service..and starting to show its age with maintenance costs due hi utilisation

[belgianconnection]

It was already rejected for a second time (ot third even). maintenance cost is high on these birds your correct but if you maintain them well they should fly no probs. I am not allowed to tell you the tech status they where in when we got them but :eek:
Now they are flying well , with almost no probs. (well he's in D check now)

Anyways, BIB is not coming to Cargo B so enough said on that one.:}

[charter man]

So, Belgianconnection, "they" has become "we", therefore as an employee you will know the real truth behind the rumours? In view of the current market conditions, even established MD11 and 747-400 operators are struggling to keep going. With just 1 -200 flying in the low season when revenues are traditionally at their lowest for European-based freighter operators, I will be intrigued to know your recipe for survival/success?

[belgianconnection]

Good point charterman, and I must say I don't know.
WE just hope for the best, and hopefully management takes good decisions.
I can only say all flights we do at the moment are full loads, for specific details or how much money they make or not make you'll need to go to the top.
For the moment I am enjoying the beast of the skies, enjoy the routes and flying with FE's. I would not want to see a fun outfit like this dissapear......:rolleyes:, I know we all work hard and try to make something of it in this harsh world .:\

[charter man]

Sad to say, but full of freight does not mean that the flights are making money. There are lots of operators of both freighters and passenger aircraft in the world at the moment who are flying flat out full, but losing money. Unfortunately airline managers either choose to ignore this fact or hope that there are better times around the corner.
Scottie from Star Trek famously said "ye canna change the laws of physics"
I say " ye canna change the laws of economics"

[torghabe]

Nice speech! Campai!

[packoverheat]

hey all!

Any news about cargo B recently? I have heard a rumour about cooperation with ANA...? Anyone any news?

grtz

[africa man]

sorry wrong info....:=

[5 Greens]

The connection with DHL is through Air Contractors who own the aircraft.

If your looking for another airframe? Dragonair are retiring a classic 743SF tomorrow in good condition!

[MaxBlow]

I would not want to see a fun outfit like this dissapear......, I know we all work hard and try to make something of it in this harsh world .

belgianconnection,

birds are singin' that your 'outfit' (as you call it) is being sold to a real airline as we speak.

Harsh world, eh ?

Best of luck.

[Jester146]

Cargo B only flies to South America now?

Is this why Cargolux flies the BRU-FIH-NBO-MST-BRU ???

[411A]

Dragonair are retiring a classic 743SF tomorrow in good condition!

Might be possible (as to 'condition') however, I am reminded of the time long ago when I was retained by DHL (circa 1980, and by the 'D' himself in DHL, Adrian Delsay) as to the 'condition' of some B707 freighters that were being considered, purchased from CX.
Not only were these aircraft advertised as -300C advanced (which they were definitely not) but they were full of corrosion in the keel beam/belly area.
Adrian passed on the airplanes...and with good reason.
Anything from HKG is subject to being highly suspect....big time.:}

[belgianconnection]

Singing birds is a national sport in belgium :}
Lets hope future brings good things :E:)

[charter man]

So who is the mystery "real airline" MaxBlow?

[Yorky Towers]

Air Contractors?;)

[charter man]

Wild guess or inside info Yorky? Doesn't seem to be a good fit...

[quickturnaround]

Ia cargo-B getting the very much promised 3rd 747-200 ex NCA, or will they be flying with only 2 acft?

[belgianconnection]

try a 747-400ERF :ok:

[MaxBlow]

the -400erf goes hand in hand with lay off's as well:yuk:

[dug the dog]

Has cargo B made the decision yet as to whether the third a/c is a classic or a 400erf.Has anybody heard anything, cheers.

[747Skyrider]

It will be an ERF. Starting the end of October.

[MatsL]

I am in a shortlist of candidates for their third aircraft but it does not look so good right now :confused:. Does anyone know if they are aiming for two or three 400 aircrafts?

[747Comet]

a -400erf...hmm would like to know where that is coming from..im sure not Boeing..?

Will it be operated by Cargo B or on ACMI lease...?

[euroflyer]

The plan is a third 747 and this time a 744...
I don't think a fourth or fifth aircraft is likely so for now I believe you can expect to see a single 744 flying for Cargo b.
Anybody know under which registration? Where it's coming from?
Good luck to them

[clearedIFR]

hi
be sure it will be a 742F
cheers

[thunderstorm1]

I am in a shortlist of candidates for their third aircraft but it does not look so good right now http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif. Does anyone know if they are aiming for two or three 400 aircrafts?


Sorry Matsl but next year only 2 B747-400ERF

[MaxBlow]

they struggled the first year, they will stumble thru the future as well like most of the other small cargo operators that try to survive with only 1 or 2 machines.

I share the pain of all f/e's that'll loose their jobs as well as all other pilots who have been fired (I hear they only fire foreigners :eek: smells fishy!).

[euroflyer]

Confirmation today from an insider that 742 is being phased out and will slowly be replaced by 744F.
The first one is expected in a month or so...
Expensive machines though!

[747Comet]

Does any one know if this really is an ERF or a conversion?

Would like to know if it is indeed an ERF how they have managed to get a slot on the production line at such short notice.

I know of no carriers that have not taken up the delivery of a brand new 747-400ERF..does any one else..?

My guess either a BCF or they have leased it from another carrier.

They were very lucky to retain their investor!!

[belgianconnection]

its not an ERF just a brand new 400F....

[DIRRIK]

Which airplane is it? They are just going to wet lease one from somebody?

[744rules]

according to CBB ground staff a brand new one, strait from Seattle.

[747Comet]

Hearing now that Cargo B has been sold to Asiana and the -400F is coming from them, has any one else got this info..?

[Engineer]

2 400F and 1 SF on the market and available now from China Airlines unless Cargo B done a deal with their neighbor CV because their 2 400Fs have been removed from the advertised sale sheet. But again both MK and Cargoitalia are queuing to purchase/lease as well maybe these guys are in the running to :)

[747Comet]

Latest update...

Cargo B has struck a deal with NAS, and is leasing two -400F from ANA.

Not sure about Cargoitalia or MK getting 400s, but how long can other carriers continue to operate the classics

[charter man]

Wow - that is a busy day, sold to Asiana and took on a 744F, then did a deal with Cargolux for 2 744F, then did a deal with NAS(?) taking 2 x 744F from ANA (who don't own any). Come on chaps, I know this is a rumour forum but get a grip.

[acmi48]

anything is possible nowadays
heard also it was via northern lease/iceland for the ex jal 400sf coming out of conversion with b-dek

[dug the dog]

just heard a rumor they have gone back to a b747-200 for third a/c.so all change again IF it is true!!!

[747Comet]

Found this today...

Belgium's Cargo B to take first Boeing 747-400 freighter
Brussels-based freight operator Cargo B will take delivery of its first Boeing 747-400 freighter next month for entry into service early in November. The aircraft will be deployed on the cargo airline's three weekly flights to Latin America, serving Sao Paulo, Lima, Quito and Bogota," Cargo B executive VP commercial, Niek van der Weide, says. With the arrival of the -400, the two Boeing 747-200 aircraft which currently make up Cargo B's fleet will operate as back up and offer extended charter capacity with the option to provide extra flights when appropriate, he says.

[MaxBlow]

charterman,

whatever airplane they get - fact is that crews (pilots & engineers) are being fired - a friend of mine got the call in a hotel at the other end of the world at 3 am:} before a flight.
Nice wake up call - I bet it has been a pleasant flight home :=

[747Comet]

Fortis. One of the main investors with in Cargo B look to be introuble. Have a look at this story

Fortis shares slump anew as financial health debate rages - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/fortis-shares-slump-anew-financial/story.aspx?guid=%7B0276EE15-772B-46ED-B86B-4DAFE0A61EB0%7D&dist=msr_29)

Lets see what this does to cargo B and their -400 hopes

[belgianconnection]

Fortis is not a investor in Cargo B

[VORDME2]

It's Petercam who is the owner of the 747 via a specialised company

[747Comet]

News floating around today that the 400 delivery has been put back now to the end of November and that money issues are again causing problems:confused:

Any one else hearing the same?

[MaxBlow]

There's alot more than just a new airplane coming their way:E

[euroflyer]

I hear no 744 before January earliest...

[747Comet]

Maxblow - Do tell more.

[BelArgUSA]

Sabena is gone, and missed...
Was an airline of nice reputation, although not making money since 1959 (except management).
Sobelair followed the same path.
Then there was CityBird... in memoriam.
Do you remember BIAS, with DC8s and DC6s, back in the 1960/70s...
How about Abelag Airways with a 707, turned into Air Belgium and their 737s...
Shall I mention Young Cargo, the two 707 cargo planes...
Remember TEA, which turned into EBA then... call it Virgin Express, now.
What will it be with Cargo B...? Out of business next year...?
xxx
Brussels is an ideal place. The heart of Western Europe.
Right in the middle of Paris, Amsterdam, Cologne, Luxembourg, even London is near.
Passenger or cargo, it is a great location. You got NATO and EU in town.
xxx
Then they get FedEx, DHL, and scare them away. Planes are noisy... Right.
You move to live in Diegem or Steenokkerzeel, didn't you know the airport is next door...?
How come taking off from EBBR, I get vectored over the city, middle of the night...?
Yet my Jeppesen map says P-1 (Prohibited Zone 1) - Do not overfly the city.
xxx
Then, let's talk about Belgian politics. They make me laugh.
I was born there. I can bark in Flemish and French.
When I down a Stella, Maes or Jupiler, I can be anything you want me to be.
Yet, anyone who invests for business in Brussels should have their head examined.
When are Belgians going to learn...? What is left in aviation...?
Oh, I know what is left... A Caravelle hanging from the ceiling in the museum.
xxx
:ugh:
Happy contrails

[euroflyer]

Without mentioning how incompetent the Belgian CAA are, a real joke!
Aviation in Belgium is long gone...

[BelArgUSA]

Belgian CAA...?
You should have known Mr. Destrée, the chief in the 1970s...
Was not exactly my friend.
I think the day he retired, the entire pilot group had a party.
xxx
:E
Happy contrails

[MaxBlow]

747Comet - not now. All still classified !

[BelArgUSA]

What did I say about them...
Now it is OO-CBA and a tail strike taking off from BRU.
Rear pressure bulkhead probably got it.
You know the rest of the story.
xxx
:(
Not so happy contrails

[747Comet]

I also know for a fact they are struggling to fill the aircraft up out of South America:confused:

[Zurg]

cargo b (http://www.cargob.com/press.asp#69)

[whazitdoinnow]

NCA had an agreement with JETT8. Now they have one with Cargo B. Doesn't seem like very reliable partners for NCA. The new airplanes are 230 million a piece so they better have a top notch insurance.

[Exup]

Just heard Cargo B had a Tail Strike in Brussels, by all accounts a fair bit of damage done.

[VORDME2]

for the pictures of the tail strike The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/h?article=40f00c5b&opt=0)

[Newforest2]

Correct registration is OO-CBA.

[Mafae]

BelArgUSA,

You mentioned you were born in Belgium and it looks like you don`t think high of Belgian Aviation, Politics etc.... Well, I was born in Belgium as well and I still live there and yes, Politics are still the same (if not much worse) and yes aviation is still the same (if not worse). Fact is, trying to get out and find better places (To live and fly) is not that simple for the moment. I guess all of this must be much better in the South West somewhere. Any ideas how to get there in that paradise?


Mafea

[BelArgUSA]

Love the people and the food...
Always like to visit back and enjoy a few beers -
And the rain and wind.
And the train, tram, metro or bus strikes.
Or the language wars...
xxx
I spent 6 month flying OO-SJP on ACMI to Sabena/Sobelair in 1977.
That educated me about Belgian style airline management and CAA...
Had many pilot friends with Sabena, all retired now.
My turn to retire 30 NOV... And glad I can forget airplanes...
xxx
:D
Happy contrails

[Mafae]

:ok:30 NOV .... No more Airplanes he.. Congratulations with your retirement after x-time airborne!!

As far as Cargo B, no news from the Belgian Papers yet... After the tailstrike, who knows whats next.....

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

Here is a photo of the B744F on the line at Paine Field:
OO-CBC Cargo B Airlines (http://paineairport.com/kpae1469.htm)

What happened to OO-CBA? Still grounded or has it been repaired by now.

[atlast]

What's up with the name on OO CBC, " NCA Artemis "?

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

What's up with the name on OO CBC, " NCA Artemis "?

Is Artemis Belgian for leased or owned? The aircraft was built for NCA but dry-leased to Cargo B.

[BelArgUSA]

Artemis is the name of the aircraft.
Greek goddess of hunting, assimilated to Diane in Roman deities.
Each NCA plane has a Greek goddess name...
A few weeks ago, I saw a NCA 747F named Andromeda taxiing by...
The Cargo B airplane is leased from NCA, but keeps its name.
xxx
:8
Happy contrails

[MaxBlow]

Have been told by a cargo b guy that the crew on the tailstrike miscalculated the weight by 200k lbs hence the wrong t/o speeds. Both pilots where fresh on type.:eek:

[CargoMatatu]

Ouch!

If true, they're VERY lucky to have got away with it: :uhoh::eek:

[MaxBlow]

It's getting even better. Crews will not be paid for Nov.,Dec and their holidays.
The tailstrike pilots are being fined - they will be trained on the new 744erf:}
arriving soon. This info is coming from a belgium guy who works there.
Some always land on their feet, I'd say.

[KwikFly]

Not completely correct info. During the year the crews got paid their gross salary; now it's the taxman who wants his share. Of course that takes the smile of the face of those guys who spent everything

[euroflyer]

'Fined or fired?'
The taxman in Belgium?! OUCHHHHH

[747guru]

Heard rumours that no one has received per diems going back to october 08 at cargob, anyone else heard this one? Looking more and more like an airline in financial difficulties?:confused:

[Freighter747]

Well rumours as well... per diem of october were payed today...

By the way, if interrested to see another nice picture of the OO-CBC freshly painted in Seatle:
http://paineairport.com/images/kpae4396.jpg

[747guru]

....heard per diems were paid today too....better late than never:)? Appears they survive another month!

[utopik]

Can anybody confirm if Cargo B is paying their crews through a luxemburg based daughter company?

[747guru]

a captain friend of mine with the company mentioned that cargo b pilots are paid by a holding company in luxemborg and are subject to luxemborg taxes (as low as 12% for some guys with wives, kids etc..) which is very curious when most of them live and fly out of brussels? Not sure how the belgium tax people feel about this:bored:? Nice deal if you can get it?

[Freight Expectations]

Nippon Cargo Airlines is to take a 15 per cent stake in Cargo B for around 3 million Euros and the other major stake holders are pumping in another 4 million Euros.
NCA and Cargo B will also operate interline agreements on Asian and South ASmerican routes.

[utopik]

Thx for the info.

Wanted to Xcheck the info I received that they are being paid through CargoB services, which has it's seat in Luxemborg.

Could give problems with the Belgian tax law...

Especially now as the Belgian govenrment is looking for more tax income to compensate the economic downturn.

Wish them all the best!

[MaxBlow]

Whenever people forget where they come from failure is programmed.

A ceo that used to be a pilot but is actually scared of flying and has less people skills than a dictator in an African country,
a dfo who is not even a pilot and has actually no idea about the missions,
a tech pilot who now thinks he is an astronaut,
a flt. safety manager who is interested in flight safety but has no power whatsoever to change things,
a training manager who has to cut himself into 4 pieces to get the work done.

What happened to the industry ? It turned into a circus - ridiculous.

Do I need to say more ? :ouch:

[MaxBlow]

playmobilshoes,

'... no wonder what is happening to you...'

so what is happening to me ?

:confused:

[Tediek]

today their new B744F landed in Brussels.

Luchtvaartnieuws: dagelijks actueel luchtvaartnieuws (http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/pictures/cargob/cargob_744.asp)

[Charlie_Fox]

In fact it arrived today, at around 11:10z.