Air Asia A320 Tailstrike??

[wakala]

air asia a320 had a tailstrike ?

[QAR]

i heard about that as well...

heard A320 9M-AFX tail strike in KUL on 16th June afternoon and aircraft AOG...

Is this true...can anyone confirm?????

3 g landing, 4g landing,tail strike....what is coming next is anyones guess

[eagle135]

I heard it, too. FO's sector. T'was a smooth landing though, but apparently the flare was excessive.
Fly by wire, side stick. The Capt couldn't just immediately take-over the controls.

[a345xxx]

i am not questinoning the pilots ability but side stick or not the other pilot is able to take over controls!! thats basic redundancy on any ac. so i do believe your statement is not accurate.

[555orange]

A345...

Its half correct. With side stick flying, the Capt cannot see what imputs the FO is doing to the Aircraft at flare. Therefore, he doesn't know if the inputs are excessive or not... At flare, there is a split second moment to react if the FO is not flaring properly for the situation. If the capt reacts too fast, and forgets to hold the FO disconect pushbutton, or at least doesnt hold it in... then the commands are added. In effect adding the Capts and the FO's together, so its a bit dangerous for a capt to take control right at flare. Not to mention, the Capts sidestick when not being used is in neutral, and the FO's who is flying may be full back or somewhere else. IF the capt hits the disconnect at neutral, the aircraft will sense a command of neutral and go to neutral from where the FO's command was. If your reacting to a downdraft, then your gonna have an even harder G landing than the FO had. Again I say, the capt has no measure of knowing where the FO's input is at. To take control at flare, ideally the capt would first have to equal the FO input, then press the disconnect, then react to the situation. By that time the thrust reversers are out and its too late.

In a boeing, the Capt can see whats happening to the yolk and thereby immediatly see what the FO is doing. And all he needs to do is "help" the FO through the situation by checking the controls. Simple.

This is why its not reccomended for any pilot in an airbus to take over from the other pilot during the flare, and that occasionally, on an airbus, you get a tailstrike or heavy landing. Incidentally, most of the tailstrikes ive seen/heard lately have been from Capts. Not FO's.

Also, pretty hard to tailstrike a 320. Must be more to the story.

Orange.

[angelgabriel]

wow...i guess they are done with the hard landing phase of the testing.its true that they had a tail strike.
as a t.r.i on the 320 its hard for the pilots to see what the other is doing...but that is no reason for the capt not to have SA:eek:.

[hellboy]

I guess that is the result of short training, it is okay for the experienced pilots but I think they shouldn't do that for the new comers. They are still lack of it, but with the company that uses A320 as their entry they should really tighten up on the training department.

Not only one but I guess more than 2 of my colleagues are suffered from the hard landing incidents, these are avoidable if only they didn't hesitate to over ride. One thing for sure you guys out there don't have the obligation to train the guys next you!!! Let the instructors do it, this is not a game you are playing, peoples lives and your reputation are at stake.

God Speed

[wakala]

air force outfit in airline uniform...why read bout it in pprune??...all info and findings kept very secretive..thank god truth prevails:D
another incident swept under the carpet..any yes 2 weeks time capt z will be out for another record...just had another squadren from subang frieght company..the ironic thing is most of the incidents in air asia is caused by either instructors, ex-DCA and training instructors... aren`t they suppose to be better.. in terms of flying skills and decision making ..???

[a345xxx]

As much as there a lot of negative reports about the standard of AK pilots i don't believe its fair. I do believe every airline has its fair share of tail strikes and hard landings. These incidents are not exclusive to AK only.

[modeselectorignition]

Yes, agreed. Other airlines would have had the same incidents/accidents. Worked for 3 companies already and yes, all have had a fair share, some very lucky ones, escaped without loss of lives. By the way, who ever thinks that a Captain is definitely BETTER than a F/O, Instructors are BETTER than line Captains, Examiners are BETTER than Instructors... please think again. That is not always the case. Some are in training department by MERIT but most are by CABLES. Well, whatever it is, we should use this forum for constructive dialogues and learn from each other. Be it from another airline because we are professionals and are responsible for passenger/crew lives. Fly safe!

[ikan_terbang]

"Some are in training department by MERIT but most are by CABLES."
I can vouch that is the case in my previous company. *.* Boleh

[Metro man]

If dual input is made from both sidesticks "the inputs are algebrically summed and can be unpredictable."

Perhaps it would make sense to have both sidesticks move in response to control inputs so the captain could feel what the f/o was doing, after all the rudder pedals are interconnected.

[flightleader]

It is indeed an unfortunate event for AK.However,the comment I read so far is even more heartening! So many people had their views on control column,side stick blah blah blah....What the hell?

Let me ask you, be it side stick or control column,how the hell you gauge the amount of input?Looking down at the side stick during landing flare? Or judging the space between the controls and your belly? What the hell? Every landing requires different amount of input base on prevailing environmental conditions and the a/c loading,trim setting,config...etc all come into play.So,what can you use to gauge to avoid a tail strike?

Go flip your training manual to find that tail strike pitch angle and memorised it by hard and never to exceed that!! Stop pointing the fingers at capt,fo or the management.Be a bloody professional pilot!!You guys make me sick!:yuk::yuk:

[jetjockey696]

this article was release to its pilots over the weekend.

Dear ladies and gentlemen



Recently one of our aircraft (9M A**) had experienced a tail strike upon
landing at KLIA. Generally these are the details of the flight.


Both Captain and First Officer have less than 600 hours on type but are well
experienced with the company operations, coming from their B737 background.
They were both performing 4 sectors in the afternoon comprising of an
international and domestic destination. On the last landing at KUL, the
weather was fine and the PIC was the PF. With consideration of the weather
and fuel conservation, he elected to do a CONF 3 landing since it was an
approach for Rwy 14L with the option of exiting the runway via intersection
A10 available. A normal landing was conducted with that configuration and no
abnormalities were experienced until touchdown. During the landing roll, an
inadvertent pitch up was experienced which lead to a tail strike. The
aircraft is now grounded and will definitely be out of service for at least
2 weeks. An investigation is ongoing and the findings and recommendations
will be released for everyone's benefit upon completion.



As a reminder and further education for every one of us, attached is a
presentation from Airbus on avoiding such an incident. We now have two
problems arising from landings at KUL - HARD LANDING and TAILSTRIKE which as
a result is shining the wrong spotlight on us as PILOTS. Please take note of
both matters and ensure that each landing is a safe landing without any
incident.

[SIDSTAR]

Rumour has it that the "hard Landing" a/c is a writeoff. Apparently about 6Gs! Dont fly AA is you have any sense - cowboy outfit and nothing less.

[Sonic69]

Ouch, that's a bit harsh.

[Kingfisher320]

Let the real man fly these planes..enough said.

[ikan_terbang]

6G ?? must be a pilots nightmare....find it hard to believe ??

[yowdude]

"Rumour has it that the "hard Landing" a/c is a writeoff. Apparently about 6Gs! Dont fly AA is you have any sense - cowboy outfit and nothing less."


if everybody thinks the same way you do then we'd all be out of jobs.

[winglet_fever]

"let the real man fly..."

humm.. i thought human factor manual mentioned something about "real men" being the problem in most accidents?

Bottom line is, big or small, we all screw up. Some recoverable and some hits the fence. Give those guys a break.

[hellboy]

Unfortunately the one who had the stick was the new guy on the right, snob guy that's what I've heard. He isn't a real man he is only a kid with few hours on the a/c, let this experience taught him well :D

[B74567]

" ....A normal landing was conducted with that configuration and no
abnormalities were experienced until touchdown. During the landing roll, an
inadvertent pitch up was experienced which lead to a tail strike....."

6G tail strike in an inadvertent pitch up during the landing roll ??
6G is kinda of extremely hard. 2G is bad enough. 6G is gonna hurt the passengers at the back of the aircraft real bad! Bad enough to be hospitalized.
The "pitch up" have to be a "extremely violent flip up" to achieve 6G. Not likely. I have my doubts .... my opinion is 6G is a bit exaggerated.
But, I wasn't there .... so I wouldn't what happened. Just my opinion....

[jumpdrive]

last 6G that i know & went written off on an antonov back to TOU was

AirDeccan ATR72-500, brand new
landing in Bangalore, in perfect wx

bounced twice,.
logged more than 6G's
think the exact was 6,4!
all pax made it , but also lots of people with neck injuries or other

it came to rest right of rwy
both main collapsed & nose gear ripped off
most of the 12 blades chopped off like bread
fuselage ended up looking like papper

now this can happen to anyone
the captain had more the 8,000 on the a/c
but damn, just 1 second of bad luck ( i guess.........if not he doesnt deserve to be there to begin )

fly by wire or not
those few micro seconds before a thing like that
most of the times is like a russian roulete
you could manage to save it or make it worse

but f@#$

6 g

thats a lot

any way where humans, its not auto ldg anyway

[NVpilot]

Inadvertent pitch up? That's what normally happens when someone is trying to do a full stall hold off with the Bus, spoilers deploy and bang!

just 1 second of bad luck Luck has nothing to do with it.

[jumpdrive]

this is the definition of luck buddy!....

Luck (also called fortuity) is a chance happening, or that which happens beyond a person's control. Luck can be good or bad.

theres also !!!

Circumstantial luck, that is, luck with factors that are haphazardly brought on. Accidents and epidemics are typical examples.

it does have to do with it some times
its like Golf...................99% its luck after that swing
even if your a Pro for years

i dont think your ldgs are ALL the time perfect (get out that cloud!)
like your a robot processing millions of things at a time

where pilots here man stop the BS, it can happen to anyone
i guess not to you NV

c ya

:ok:

[NVpilot]

Crashing an ATR on the runway has nothing to do with bad luck, it's called bad airmanship. Do you you carry a rabbits foot with you when you go to work? :ugh:

[KITEFLY76]

AK F/Os have no standard judging them from radio calls,recently in HKG it was so embarassed to hear that the FO when requested ATC clearance did not comply to the requirement what to say to the HKG Delivery,for example,here in HKG there is no need to tell your aircraft registration,you have 3:45hours flight from KUL,so just read up the HKG plates,the requirement is only to state Stand No,ATIS.Dont know what if the FO will mumble when they ask clearance from LHR or thru PDC.Read up.

[sayap-patah]

6G?? come on , dont be to much-lah..in 2006 i involved in investigation of hard landing in riyadh, it was 3.95G ( recorded in FOCA), the a/c airframe bending, and the a/c can not do a taxi.

[sharpshooter41]

@flightleader

Sir, your comments are a wee bit harsh. The leader in your "handle" should indicate someone whom people look upto and not someone who kicks a person in the stomach when he is down and out. Sarcasm included!!

Long time back we had this senior person making fun of a pilot who had gone off the runway onto the grass by a total of about 10 feet. The very next day he himself went off the runway and nearly made it onto the parallel runway which was ofcourse at quite a distance.

[handsome one]

Is the Fo n capt who did the tailstrike flying again ?

[Brianigham]

flightleader,

You said it right.

Its the responses and ideas here that probably needed a little attention.

Its a tailstrike.

Tailstrikes happen.

There is a relationship to ATT of the aircraft. ( nearly everything )

Yup....its in the manuals, no secrets.

Thank you.

[flightleader]

Hi Sharp,

I did not laugh at the pilots in this incident. Have a look at all the comments,blame the side stick? blame the management? Hello!!Anyone forced to join them and fly these planes??

The lack of ability to pinpoint at the real reason for this incident make pilots look like cry babies. If the pilots community wants to be respected,have a little respect for the professionalism first.

[SIDSTAR]

Apparently the "hard landing" aircraft has been seen in the hanger with the landing gear and both engines removed. I wonder what the DFDR showed?

Tough luck if it was a young lad.

[hellboy]

I heard they going to scrap that one away once its ready to fly, so much for the 1st AirAsia A320.

Now they're getting bored with the Hard Landing incidents, looking at they neighbor in Indonesia now they tail strike the brand new bus.

One of the 73's just made it stopping within the runway, tough luck one of the main wheel went out of the edge. They said they should keep this one intern. You reap what you sow, recruiting from one of recently closed airlines then you get what you can expect from them. The time bomb is ticking.

What's next...



Hellboy

[Mat Tongkang]

Air Asia full of exMAS who were exTUDM who think that A320 sidestick flying is like Tebuan jet flying.......sorrylah, you can get those ex Air Farce chaps to sprout wings to adapt to airbus flying, or grow new grey cells in the geriatrically wired brains to understand Airbus human machine interphase philosophy.

[mascamel]

When I was B744 F/O, some of the ex TUDM laboured over the FMC, LNAV/NVAV functions and engine EECs like if their were UFO alien technology. I guess they had similar difficulties with airbus automation and flight control laws. Not far fetched that human/machine interphase is going to be a big issue with those ex-tebuan/c130 drivers

[Virtual Reality]

Since when ex-Tebuan/C130 drivers are respected drivers in TUDM?:}

BTW, the one that had a tailstrike is an Iraqi driver, the same breed of people MAS recruited as a skipper on B734 but taxi into the grass in KBR many years ago due to his superior skill and training........:yuk:

Oh ya..... who was 'Toady' before he became your MAPA exec and SGM?:ugh:

[WiraMelayu]

I think you guys are too generous. Only a handful were ex Tebuan or C130 pilots. Most were only ex Caribous, like toady for e.g.

Those drivers from Saddam's domain are a bunch of typical pak arab better suited to be camel herders.

[finalrwy15]

well said flightleader:ok:

[KaptenLanun]

AK F/Os have no standard judging them from radio calls,recently in HKG it was so embarassed to hear that the FO when requested ATC clearance

If so then why bunch of them manage to get into EY??? :confused:...........They are not that bad after all are they?

Happy Flying

[a345xxx]

why is there so much animosity towards ex air force pilots? the truth of the matter is there are good and bad in all groups...ie ex GA, Air Force or airline cadets. as for ambitous pilots they too come from all groups.

as for the mentioned incident yes it happened... should it have happened ..no but it did.. even with the best training by the best trainers in the best airline incidents will happen...

[sayap-patah]

:ok:for flight leader and 345xxx,
all this incident really make us more aware about the our critical phase of flight, as this incident also quit happen oftenly in QR, happen in Khartoum, Frankfurt, Riyadh, and the last one in Jeddah, the A 330 QR smash the r/w 34C JED by more than 5G, the PF was local FO... .uups SO..whose coming directly from Flying school fly the right seat on Wide Body Airbus.

[P.Clostermann]

SP,


if you want to give your friends facts about QR incidents, at least give them the correct facts!

JED landing was 2.82G exactly, and not 5!:hmm:

[jack diamond]

6 'g' s #%@k the aircraft hows the runway?