Airserv

[FAJSFQMA]

Gents,

Just wondered if there's a problem at Airserv at the moment?

Understand from a contact back in the Dark Continent that within the last 6 weeks or so 4 of their directors have resigned. 1 wouldn't rasie an eyebrow, 2 could be a coincidence but 4?!?

Thanks in advance for any info.

[FAJSFQMA]

Originally posted in Rumours & News which I had thought was more appropriate as Airserv doesn't only operate in Africa......

[grizzled]

FAJ...

Yes there's a problem at Airserv. Has been for a couple of years, but what started as an insipient spin seems (sadly) to be turning into a spiral dive. In the past year a flood of Country Directors, Ops Managers, Chief Pilots, Pilots and HO staff have left. Add to that a revolving door of CEO's the past few years.

There are a lot of different opinions as to the root of ASI's problems but for many who are close to the organization the reason is simple: They have lost their way. The dividing lines between "humanitarian work", "development work", and just plain "commercial aviation" can sometimes be blurry but, in Afghanistan at least, ASI was/is conducting operations that, in the opinion of many staffers, could not possibly be called humanitarian. The desire to get contracts for their aircraft, and the need to make money, has meant they have done / are doing some work that many long-time ASI staff and observers believe is entirely against their stated principles and objectives. Not to mention the implications such contracts and operations may have on their tax status in the U.S. as a charity or "non-profit humanitarian organization".
Whether any of the above has relevance to the most recent resignations from the Board I don't know. But I do know it was a factor in many other resignations over the past year or so.

[amishpilot]

Perfect response, as those were many of the reasons/issues that caused me to end my time there. I can honestly say that the years I spent with them were some of the best that I've had and I still hope that one day they will return to their roots.

[NG Driver]

Agreed. They lost their way. My years with ASI were also great. They opened up the world for me. However, I don't find myself hoping they'll return to their roots. Rather, I wonder whether there's really a need, or a place for Airserv in today's world. They did some great work, but things have changed.

I don't think this particular "vision lost" can be recovered. Maybe if the right leadership had been in place 5 or 6 years ago, but by the time "CEO" S.W.'s tenure of destruction was finished, it was all but over. The great talent, and those who carried the vision, are all gone. He made sure of that.

[FAJSFQMA]

Hi,

Thanks for the info, the gist of which seems to be, as NG Driver summed it up, that they've lost their way.

Just heard that their CEO C.J. has now resigned. True?

They seem to be very lost indeed.... :eek:

[1sapo77]

Hi, Grizzled....

I have some close in and recent information (from a very good source) on what is happening at AirServ.

First of all, some perspective. The recent changes are a result of strong leadership getting the organization back on track which is basically this > AirServ is defining humanitarian work on a continuum from disaster relief (tsunami, earthquake, etc.) to community and nation building. There may be some misunderstanding on the part of some staff as to what should legitimately be in the range. But the board has been and is very clear on that.

So, there should be no debate on whether the entity securing AirServ services is commercial or non-profit. The point is the objective or end-result, i.e. is it helping people in a humanitarian way, etc.

From what I hear the board wants to align leadership and staff to this point which will mean that some people just need to go and have gone in the past.

This approach or alignment, I am told, has no bearing on their tax status.

So, from what I hear, the "problem at AirServ" is really about getting leadership and staff aligned, not being lost. The mission is still very strong and and I don't think, from what I hear, that any "market" conditions have changed that either suggests they are going out of business or should. They just need to get leadership and staff aligned. And THAT has been the situation.

[Nickerbal]

Guys let us grow up!
Air Serv is a money maker & always has been. It has built one of the largest Aviation Companies in Africa N:mad:....k with the US Governments blank check book and the Tsunami.
On ALL of its contracts it managed to screw staff out of a decent wage and yet still charge about 40 – 60 % more for Caravans / 200’s and Twotters, yet they don’t make money! My heart bleeds, off course they make money, but some idiots at the “Home Office” have to be paid, fed and pansied along.
When NGO’s and the UN woke up to the fact that Air Serv cannot financially give them a fair deal they left them behind and are using exclusive private contractors for their World Wide Operations such as Qwila, NAC, Naturelink, Executive Turbine & Solenta etc.
The facts are:
Air Serv has always been “hiding” behind the Bible and do good words like “capacity building”, “coaxial existences” “strategic alliances” “next levels” and all the mumbo jumbo that is designed to flatter idiots with a Grade 1 in Human Sciences and p:mad:ss bank managers off that lend them money.
Air Serv wanted to run with the “big boys” that learnt the hard way at Rossair, honed their teeth flying angry African Skies with P:mad:pot minded NGO’s & UN Workers & then they thought “easy money” & built the largest hangar at Entebbe and 12 years later it only has one C130 tire in the middle of the floor (If Safair is still helping them out with the rent)
What Air Serv should do to survive is:
1. Like a bunch of H:mad:..mos they should “come out of the closet” and tell the world who & what they are & they are one simple thing: An Aviation Company Period. Pot bellied African Kids that are starving with snotty little noses might make some old woman open her purse for $10 but the real money is the real contracts and if your invoice is 40 – 60% more than private contractors even the dumbest NGO won’t hire you. It’s about one simple thing, it’s called MONEY.
2. They should get a manager in with a mandate and a thing called “big brass b:mad:lls” & make Entebbe (The private Company) plain & simply PROFITABLE.
3. They must slash & burn the “Home Office” & that should be easy because VA where they are is a right to work state, so they can sack all the idiots one bright morning, even before they scoff the nice smelling coffee!
4. They should hire good pilots (They always had good ones & I think of names such as Don C, Bill K, Steve M, Michael V, Bob R and do a simple thing and that is PAY THEM MONEY, not p:mad:...ss :mad:....as allowances for dedicated professionals that they are.
5. They must get out of bed with the company they built in Pretoria.
6. All the board members with “esoterically aligned” stars must be fired.
They must go back and see who managed well & get those guys back and give them the tools to make them competitive.
USAID the blank check provider, NGO’s and the UN has become to wise, and whether you fly “The Oil Boys” in Algeria / Libya or some “victim of war or famine,” it still cost exactly the same amount of money to crank over a PT 61 & when private contractors against all odds can get it right then ASI should do the same.
Once they know that they are competitive and can produce an organization with a great brotherhood and a good fraternity, then only can they hold their heads high and say boys here we are, we won’t wail like babies and blame other things if we don’t get the work, only the sharpness of our pencil, therefore I trust that whoever the new CJ replacement CEO is will have the savvy, balls and rolled up sleeves required to nurture a sick pup back to health. Because one more round of failed Missionaries, Potato Sheriffs and Lawyers in walnut paneled offices will break the bank.
My two bits worth & welcome to the real world!:}

[NG Driver]

1sapo77, a probationary ppruner in his first post, wants us to believe it's all just an "alignment issue" - and now a new, strong leader is sorting it all out. How pathetic. Clearly the organization's problems run deeper than that.

[grizzled]

1sapo77:

Your input sounds more like an ASI press release than unbiased info from “a very good source”.

For instance:

The “alignment” you speak of doesn’t account for the mass resignations from the Board.
Your “source” failed to tell you that the Afghanistan program is officially over, done, finished, kaput. Which in turn means that ASI’s financial problems have gone from significant to dire.
The Airserv website continues to mislead readers and donors by not mentioning the above two major developments
If you (or your “source”) believes that ASI’s tax status has not been compromised by their work in Afghanistan, then you either don’t understand the US rules and regs regarding non-profit (tax-free) status, or you don’t know what ASI’s operations in Afghanistan were about.
Given the items I’ve just mentioned, it doesn’t take much imagination to figure out why the majority of the BoD and the CEO have resigned.

[Lifes-a-Beech]

When did the Afghan programme fall through?

[grizzled]

check your PM's

[Hot Shots]

Nickerbal, I can clearly see that you have been out in the field for "NGO" air carriers. I totaly agree with you about Airserv. Had the pleasure of working for a company that did contracts for them. I must say that there I saw that their whole opperation is clearly money driven hiding behind the Humanitarian curtain. On all the contracts I've been on, their chiefs in the field are nothing more than people that can't make it in the real world in their own contries. Now they go to these God forsaken places and try to play boss. Quite sad. Some of the desisions they make :ugh: := :ugh:

But must also admit though, did alot of good things too. They must just now get rid of the non-profit theme and come out and say they are a money making aviation company just like any other company. Then the whole thing will get better.

[BUSHJEPPY]

quote
They must just now get rid of the non-profit theme and come out and say they are a money making aviation company just like any other company. Then the whole thing will get better.
unquote

But for that Airserv needs an AOC :}

[NG Driver]

Bushjeppy - EXACTLY! Is there really a place in today's world for a Part 91 operator, operating only to Part 91 standards, to be out there competing for contract work with certificated Part 135 operators? Why should any government or non-governmental agency contract with ASI who then (at reduced safety margins and increased cost to the end user) goes out and sub-contracts for the services to be provided by a properly certificated operator, who then has to put up with being directed by sometimes worthless and incompetent field managers? What a waste.

If USAID or some other group (or individuals) wanted to fully fund the organization to be in a position to respond to natural disasters and such, fine, there's certainly a place, and a need for such an organization in today's world.

Let ASI re-establish themselves somewhere as a certificated operator (even a non-profit one) and be audited and approved by UNHAS to bid for humanitarian or peacekeeping contracts. Unfortunately for them, that can't happen in the US as they don't operate there, so the FAA won't certificate them.

Short of the above possibilities, why not just close shop? When ASI broke off from MAF some twenty-odd years ago it was a different landscape. Things have changed.

People like Mr. Carney (i.e. 1sapo77) aren't bad folks, but I think the fact that they are currently making their living from this sinking ship might, just might, blur their vision a bit. Sometimes bad leadership, which ASI has suffered from for years, just takes an organization too far down to ever come back up again.

The above opinion comes from having spent years in the organization, then a number of years outside of it working in the real world.

[curiousgeorge]

I suggest you all put a sock in it until you get the facts straight, oh but wait this is a rumor network after all, a perferct platform for disgruntled, bored ex-employees to sulk and lick their wounds in:=
Remove the stick up your collective rearends and move on already.

Nikerbal, you weren't above quoting bible verse when you were begging for scraps at the ASI table not too long ago.....

[mojingles1]

Very interesting information, as always, however let me set the record straight. For those ex-employees who love to hate Air Serv, you seem to spend much time talking about it so let me give you the facts

Yes, there is a new CEO, and Yes, its the 4th CEO in 2 years (3 if you count one who did it twice)
Yes, there have been resignations and layoffs at the home office (which I would think some of you would enjoy as I have read many times about the idiots at home office who earn big salaries for doing nothing)
Yes, the Afghan program is closed (again, should make a lot of people happy)
No, there have not been board members who have resigned
No, we are not closing up shop

I do not think ASI is attempting to deceive anyone on the website, but keep in mind, 10 people are gone in two weeks, website updating is probably not a priority.

Regardless of negative views on the organization, there are good people there.

Take what you want from this post but know that it is FACT not FICTION

[SAT_BOSS]

I am off on contract soon & its sad to see that ASI has so many problems & I truly hope that they can solve them because after this "New CEO" starts it will be the "last round" to get it right.

I worked for them when SW was the CEO & in all fairness at that time they had a lot of work & SW had a way with donors to get them to open the purse strings.

What went wrong? Who can really tell but I think that in all fairness ASI is an Aircraft Operator (without an AOC!:}) making it very unfair to compete against the players that have a Part 135 licene.

In this game you have two options:

1. Do it right
2. Do it right

Once ASI "forgets" a bit of the "capacity building things" & concentrate on being an aircraft company like the rest then things will go better for them. I mean lets face it the "capacity building" thing that USAID funds for them in Mozambique (for the past 3 years?) has that produced any:

1. Qualified Mozambican operator?
2. Trained any pilot?
3. Trained any mechanic?
4. Reduced ASI's exposure for a 100% Mozambican outfit?

Gosh knows I don't really think so & the donor sees through that as the plan sounds very well when made by people in offices but useless in the field.

However GOOD LUCK, there are still some very good guys left ....

I think also that people will also moan and cry over ASI because some like myself have put some serious tears and effort into this organization. I have been out since 2004 and hate to see things go :mad: ..ts up.

Cheerio

[NG Driver]

On the one hand SW saved Airserv by generating new work, contracts, and opportunities. Clearly they were on the way out before he came on board. Unfortunately he squandered all that opportunity and ultimately destroyed the organization through hubris, mismanagement and operational incompetence. If only he'd been put in a development position and kept out of operations, perhaps the story would have been different. Guys like SW talk a good game, which is how they get to positions of power and leadership, but ultimately they are really just destructive dividers.

Reliable sources who were at World Vision with him prior to his tenure at AirServ tell a similar story. I last heard he was with Louis Berger Engineering, supervising the construction of a road critical to the development of Afghanistan. I hope it goes better there than it has elsewhere he's left his footprint. Stu had some great gifts, and some even greater liabilities. Unfortunately the board caught on too late (he talks a good game) and by the time they sacked him, the damage was done. I'm sure there are good folks remaining at Airserv and I wish them well. However, I'm doubtful they can salvage things at this point, and having a more complete understanding of the "landscape" than I did back then, I don't even think ASI should continue to operate and use finite development and humanitarian resources. More importantly, I don't believe that an non-certificated and unregulated operator in such turmoil can provide ANY significant amount of safety oversight - much less conduct operations safely.

This forum IS the appropriate place to express such doubts and opinions.

mojingles1 , if you read these posts and come to the conclusion that all of the former ASI staffers who have something negative to say in this forum are "Airserv haters", you couldn't be more wrong. What I see here, with perhaps one exception, are a bunch of good folks who cared deeply, believed deeply in the organization's stated mission, and gave their best selflessly. I see sadness, not hate. I also see that they all seemed to travel the same road I did from excitement and hope, to utter dismay. Yourself and curiousgeorge add injury to insult by referring to them (us) as "people who love to hate" and "disgruntled ex employees"

I understand where you are coming from. I was once there. But no longer being invested personally I (we) are able to look at things more objectively.

[mojingles1]

I am sure I have offended some but as I said "for those that love to hate" which doesn't include all.

But put everything on line, watch 9 friends and co-workers lose their jobs in an economy where some will struggle to survive, watch an organization that is great become one that makes you cry, watch people in the field who give up everything for a cause become miserable, then read some of these posts and maybe you all will understand the anger.

Bottom line, there is a place for Air Serv. Look at places like Chad were in a security crisis the commercial aircraft leave people stranded, look in the DRC where NGOs were flying on Hewa Bora every day...there is a place for Air Serv.

[NG Driver]

No problem mojingles1. I know exactly how you feel. I wish you guys well, really. And just in case, remember, there is life after Airserv:-)

[V1... Ooops]

...there is a place for Air Serv...

The best place for Air Serv right now would be in the lineup at the FAA office where they could apply for a Part 121 or Part 135 AOC.

The concept of providing not for profit humanitarian air service is noble. But, however noble it may be, running scheduled public commercial flights and offering charter flight service to the public under Part 91 is simply wrong.

Air Serv could gain a great deal of respect from all - their clients and other operators alike - if they stepped up to the plate and made a decision to comply with the laws of their country of registration, just like everyone else is expected to do.

[Nickerbal]

As V1 says, get legal, play legal & bid like all others, then survive & grow. I am VERY SAD at ASI because many people have worked there buts off for the organization, but as NG also said there is life after ASI.

Just come into the same sandpit, play the same game and then you can look others in the face. That "Dozey FAA" piece of paper hanging up on your wall means nothing.

Get the paper, then come & play ....

[MungoP]

Bushjeppy - EXACTLY! Is there really a place in today's world for a Part 91 operator, operating only to Part 91 standards, to be out there competing for contract work with certificated Part 135 operators? Why should any government or non-governmental agency contract with ASI who then (at reduced safety margins and increased cost to the end user) goes out and sub-contracts for the services to be provided by a properly certificated operator, who then has to put up with being directed by sometimes worthless and incompetent field managers? What a waste.

I'm staying out of the politics here as I've been out of touch with things since my last contract with them, something over a year ago.. but... as for safety standards.. I've worked with ASI in Congo and Afghanland and also worked for private operations in other parts of North and Central Africa in addition to a well known and respected South African outfit and can say categorically that ASIs safety standards regarding flight ops were equal to or exceeded those of any other operater I flew for... Whatever any individual country director or client might of thought resonable or safe was always, ultimately ok'd or vetoed by the flight crews and never once in my experience were crews' decisions seriously questioned... which is a lot more than I can say of management of companies I flew for during 10 years of scheduled ops in the UK and Europe.

That's all I have to say other than best wishes to any former colleagues still working with ASI...

[grizzled]

Mojingles

What you need to understand is that the passionate words regarding ASI in these posts have the same roots as your own. Most of us who have worked for Airserv in the "programs" thoroughly enjoyed the work, the cultures we were emeshed in, and the friends we made and worked with. But in the past couple of years most also left frustrated, even angry, as the company (by its own admission) needed contracts so badly that they took on some that were, clearly and simply, long-term commercial charter agreements. The differing philosophies of the BoD, the CEO(s), and the VP of International Programs concerning what "humanitarian" meant lead to constantly changing statements of ASI's vision. First this way, then that, then this again. You know as well as I do that was also a major factor in the decisions by some HO staff (and very good people) to leave Airserv.

As an aside, whether you know it or not, a "hidden" but significant factor in the loss last year of the largest ASI contract was the arrogant continual meddling from that same old SW.

Best of luck to you.

[lttlbit]

I agree with your below statement grizzled as I did hold ASI close to my heart, and saw the degree of humanitaritanism continue to lack day after day in the last 2 years, I was not one on the lucky ones, but Hey, I hope it gets rebuilt from the bottom up and wish everyone there the best of luck.



Mojingles

What you need to understand is that the passionate words regarding ASI in these posts have the same roots as your own. Most of us who have worked for Airserv in the "programs" thoroughly enjoyed the work, the cultures we were emeshed in, and the friends we made and worked with. But in the past couple of years most also left frustrated, even angry, as the company (by its own admission) needed contracts so badly that they took on some that were, clearly and simply, long-term commercial charter agreements. The differing philosophies of the BoD, the CEO(s), and the VP of International Programs concerning what "humanitarian" meant lead to constantly changing statements of ASI's vision. First this way, then that, then this again. You know as well as I do that was also a major factor in the decisions by some HO staff (and very good people) to leave Airserv.

As an aside, whether you know it or not, a "hidden" but significant factor in the loss last year of the largest ASI contract was the arrogant continual meddling from that same old SW.

Best of luck to you.

[Oosik]

it is a christian fanatic organization really known as MAF. the name was changed to AirServ so it can bid on U.S. and UN contracts without implying its christian fanatic background. Because the christian's are keen in lining thier own pockets and screwing thier fellow man or woman to do it, they are able to run a profitable company and live a good life. Paying a highly experienced pilot $2700 USD per month to do covert work in the Middle East with 90 days on at a time is an insult.
When I asked them if they have ever lost a pilot, I was told only when he stepped out of his room while their was some shooting.
If you get involved with Air Serve you will be working for peanuts, thrust into a part of the World where you will be forgotten, and the experince you may gain will do little to promote your career. YOU ARE EXPENDABLE AT AIR SERVE.

[NG Driver]

Oosik, Were you born a complete idiot or is it something you've had to work at?

[MungoP]

Oosik... I'm a gentle sort of person with very few strong words on anything ... but on this occasion... in the words of Groucho Marx "I'll make an exception"

You are a complete twa*.

[reinbobber]

I worked for ASI most of the last 16 yrs only in Mozambique so I got to watch the goings on from a bit of a distant perspective but have certainly been affected by them.

The situation at ASI is simple-

lack of money due to the inability to procure new contracts.

The underlying reason for this is the difficulty(impossibility?) trying to run a humanitarian NONPROFIT NGO and a commercial FOR PROFIT AVIATION COMPANY. ASI began in Mozambique and Ethiopia back in 1984 when there was no competition from the private sector.

Over the years that environment changed and in fact the directions taken by ASI management 10 years ago exacerbated the situation-- outsourcing to South African companies.

The users eventually figured out that it made more sense to skip the middle man and go directly to the SA company actually doing the flying.

Can new management change the situation? So much hinges on how many natural disasters occur, how many major accidents by African airlines happen--and HOW WELL ASI ACTUALLY LIVES UP TO IT'S MISSION STATEMENT.

[Salamo]

In response to Oosik's post, I worked for AirServ for a while a few years back and although AirServ was born out of MAF and may have had its roots there in 1984 it has well and truely moved, from what I saw, away from the principles that guide MAF. Having grown up as the son of an MAF pilot for 20+ years I can say without a doubt that AirServ is not MAF and cannot even be compared to MAF. While I was working there I met a number of people who may have had some type of faith but never Christian fanaticism in fact I would go as far as to say that despite peoples good intentions the attitudes and lifestyles were in complete contrast.
I too am sad that it wasn't what I expected and believe a return to its roots, to the original vision, when money didn't matter would see AirServ back to its best.

[Malagant]

Interesting read on ASI, I had flown for them in Jordan, Afghan, and Chad and met some really nice guy`s..Corky that was the ASI manager in Kabul was a professional and a gentleman to boot..but Amman manager was a complete d**s named Erwin Timmerman..don`t know how he lasted so long..had his head up his own ass never mind the CEO`s in the US. I remember the ASI pilots getting crappy pay and the Naturelink pilots getting alot more, but they were doiing the same flying. Maybe the ASI management studied from Naturelink management who did the majority of flying for them all over..??? Anyway good luck to the ASI pilots and new management.

[gerpols]

I wanted to fly for ASI once, but was rejected bacause I was married.
Does anyone know if things have changed concerning this matter.
New management, new policies ??

Fly safe guys, and take care!

Gary.

:ok:

[I.R.PIRATE]

Agree, if ASI had a few more chaps like CZ, they would have gone a long way.:ok:

[308]

Had awesome time at Airserv many moons ago.With right mindset to make money and right leadership, i will join up again