IREX questions, some help please [Archive]

View Full Version : IREX questions, some help please

Spelunker

15th Jun 2008, 11:15

Doing the IREX self study, using Bob Tait's book, I have come across several questions that I cannot figure out myself, and Bob Tait doesn't explain it in enough detail and neither do the AIP's. So I thought I'd ask you guys.

1. AIP ENR 1.5- 5.3.2
If I am doing an ILS approach, and the box is shaded, and I have received actual QNH from AWIS/ATIS, can I subtract 100' from the DA, or does the 100 feet subtraction rule only apply to NPA ?

2. AIP ENR 1.5 - 5.3.3
If I am using only a forecast QNH, must I also add 50' to the alternate minima? Also would i apply it to the ILS minima, or does this 50' rule only apply to NPA?

3. AIP ENR 1.5 - 1.14 Visual Approach
So if I am 40nm out, in VMC by day, at an altitude below LSALT/MSA/Step etc.. then I cannot conduct a Visual Approach because I am below the aforementioned altitudes?

4. ENR 1.5 - 5.4 Runways equipped with HIAL
so if my destination has HIAL but it is switched off for the day because of maintenance, then must I add 0.9 km to the vis minima for every NPA approach at that airport? NDB and DME/GPS and RNAV included?

5. When is the lastest time a departure report must be given departing an aerodrome in class G airspace?
I know that you must be established on track by 5nm (ENR 1.1 - 7.3), but where does it say where the limit is on making the departure report.?

6. ref CAO 40.2.1 - 11
Before doing a DME/GPS arrival, I must satisfy the 90 day recency requirements of a DME/GPS arrival (CAO 40.2.1 11A). But if the approach utilises an NDB for azimuth guidance and the last time i flew an NDB approach was 1 year ago, do i now need to further satisfy the NDB recency requirements or does the DME/GPS recency cover such approaches regardless of what navaid it uses for azimuth and my recency with such a navaid?

7. Here's one type of question i seem to keep getting wrong:

While operating in the Brisbane (YBBN) rwy 01 VOR/DME holding pattern at 4000ft in a CAT B aircraft, what is the max IAS that may be flown without ATC approval? (reference ENR 1.5 - 3.2.1)
a)180kt
b)170kt
c)210kt
d)135kt
e)230kt

Well, the approach IS NOT restricted to CAT A or B ONLY, so the 170kt below FL140 does not apply, and the max IAS below 10,000' is 250kt. So it must be 230 kt.
The answer given is B 170kt.
Unless I am missing something or my understanding of the Speed limitations in holding patterns is wrong, my guess is that this question is incorrect.

8. Can someone explain to me the difference between e.g. Brisbane ILS-Z Rwy19 & ILS-Y rwy 19....What is the major difference between -Y & -Z approaches. Looking through different such appraoches in my DAP's I cant see any difference.

9. Chris Henry's CHapter 5 page 19 says the following
"CASA advise that where an aircraft has passed a nominated GPS distance which permits descent to a lower level (i.e. the next step of the procedure) should a RAIM loss or warning subsequently occur, the descent may continue but not lower than that next step."

Yet ENR 1.5-13.2.2(f) says that in the above situation, where RAIM is lost, the pilot must conduct a Missed Approach. So which is it then?

Thanks in advance for your help guys

Spelunker

Cap'n Arrr

15th Jun 2008, 12:16

Won't be able to answer all of them, but here's my effort.

1. AIP ENR 1.5- 5.3.2
If I am doing an ILS approach, and the box is shaded, and I have received actual QNH from AWIS/ATIS, can I subtract 100' from the DA, or does the 100 feet subtraction rule only apply to NPA ?

If my memory is correct, and the shaded box means you can subtract 100' from the minima that has been shaded, then yes, yes you can.

2. AIP ENR 1.5 - 5.3.3
If I am using only a forecast QNH, must I also add 50' to the alternate minima? Also would i apply it to the ILS minima, or does this 50' rule only apply to NPA?

You are thinking of where Forecast AREA QNH (As opposed to forecast TERMINAL QNH) is being used. If you are using area, then all minimas must be increased by 50'. The jepps wording is that "The landing, circling and alternate minimas for many *blah blah blah* were calculated using forecast aerodrome QNH", so it would also be applied to the alternate minima.

3. AIP ENR 1.5 - 1.14 Visual Approach
So if I am 40nm out, in VMC by day, at an altitude below LSALT/MSA/Step etc.. then I cannot conduct a Visual Approach because I am below the aforementioned altitudes?

Sort of. You cannot conduct a visual approach because you are more than 30nm out, as well as being below LSALT. Once you are inside that, provided you are clear of cloud, in sight of ground/water, vis >5km and can maintain 500'/1000' AGL then you can conduct a visual approach. However you could downgrade to VFR if you really felt like it.

Also, and I'm prepared to be corrected on this, if you're VMC by day, although you aren't doing a Visual Approach, you could in theory continue descent to overfly height, and once within the circling area join as normal. Remember that in VMC an IFR aircraft must conform to the same circuit rules as a VFR plane.\

4. ENR 1.5 - 5.4 Runways equipped with HIAL
so if my destination has HIAL but it is switched off for the day because of maintenance, then must I add 0.9 km to the vis minima for every NPA approach at that airport? NDB and DME/GPS and RNAV included?

Correct. If HIAL is out, then add 900m to the VIS (Jepps have this on the chart) for an NPA.

5. When is the lastest time a departure report must be given departing an aerodrome in class G airspace?
I know that you must be established on track by 5nm (ENR 1.1 - 7.3), but where does it say where the limit is on making the departure report.?

The wording is "Once established on the departure track, and clear of all circuit traffic" however it can be given before that.

6. ref CAO 40.2.1 - 11
Before doing a DME/GPS arrival, I must satisfy the 90 day recency requirements of a DME/GPS arrival (CAO 40.2.1 11A). But if the approach utilises an NDB for azimuth guidance and the last time i flew an NDB approach was 1 year ago, do i now need to further satisfy the NDB recency requirements or does the DME/GPS recency cover such approaches regardless of what navaid it uses for azimuth and my recency with such a navaid?

Not GPS approach endorsed, so can't tell you to be honest. I would expect not, but I strongly advise you to get it from someone other than myself!

7. Not sure, maybe the approach has been changed since the question was written. Someone else may know.

8. Can someone explain to me the difference between e.g. Brisbane ILS-Z Rwy19 & ILS-Y rwy 19....What is the major difference between -Y & -Z approaches. Looking through different such appraoches in my DAP's I cant see any difference.

Im sure someone explained the difference to me before, but I can't remember it for the life of me. Looking at the charts, I can see that in the Z approach, there is a VOR holding pattern and DME arc involved, and they both use different DME stations.

9. Chris Henry's CHapter 5 page 19 says the following
"CASA advise that where an aircraft has passed a nominated GPS distance which permits descent to a lower level (i.e. the next step of the procedure) should a RAIM loss or warning subsequently occur, the descent may continue but not lower than that next step."

Yet ENR 1.5-13.2.2(f) says that in the above situation, where RAIM is lost, the pilot must conduct a Missed Approach. So which is it then?

Your right on both. If it's during a GPS/RNAV NPA, then you must do a missed approach. But lets say you have a 25nm MSA of 3000, and a 10nm MSA of 2000. If the RAIM failed at 9nm, then you could still go down to 2000. I'm fairly certain (again, not endorsed, so check with someone else) it works the same way in a GPS arrival.

Hope that helped somewhat, good luck with the study!:ok:

Arrr

Dragun

15th Jun 2008, 12:20

Only got a couple of mins so I'll go through what I can quickly. Couple of errors in the answer above (not saying mine is perfect).

1. No. NPA only

2. 50' only to be added to the minima if using an AREA QNH

3. Even though you're VMC by day, you cannot conduct a visual approach because you're at 40Nm. One of the visual approach requirements is within 30Nm

4. Not every approach at that airport. Only the straight in minima for the particular runway equipped with the HIAL.

5. Think you may be referring to the 10min SAR that is automatically started when you make your IFR taxi call. Unless you nominated a SARTIME for departure, you have 10mins from initial call to contacting ATS again.

6. Yes. Separate recency requirement.

7. Based on the info you've given, it's 230kt. Are you sure however that on that particular plate there isn't a limitation written in the notes of 170kts? Don't have it in front of me

8. Again, don't have the plate in front of me but check the DME source. My guess is that one would use the BN DME and the other would use an ILS DME.

9. Chris Henry is wrong. That was the old rule. These days, if you get a RAIM warning/loss, even if you're past a step, you cannot descend to that step - it's a missed approach.

Hope that helps. PM me for more details.

QF2

15th Jun 2008, 12:24

For the difference between the Z and Y approaches, apart from the hold information being different, look at where the distances are calculated from. In the ILS-Z it is the DME from BN VOR/DME, whereas in the Y approach it is from the IBS DME. So then if you look at the boxes which show altitude and DME distance they will be different too obviously because they are being measured from different places.

Cap'n Arrr

15th Jun 2008, 12:28

Dragun

WRT Question 1, that's what I thought, but then Avalon has a minima for forecast and a minima for actual QNH on it's ILS. I use jepps, so not too familiar with the shaded box.

And also number 5, just to add, I don't believe that you have to give the departure report, but you should at least have spoken to centre saying "ABC airborne with depature"

Not having a go, but I'm not flying IFR much if at all in my present job, so if I've got something wrong please correct me, would love to get it all straight in my head!:ok:

alexthepilot

15th Jun 2008, 12:45

as stated above if box is shaded on an ILS plate you may remove 100'. Also just like to add if you did get a RAIM warning and you were within 25 or 10nm MSA last time you checked you cannot descend to these limit as you can't tell if the GPS was working properly in the first place and hence must conduct a MAP. PS was going to answer the rest of your questions but seems it has already been done for me haha :ok:

mingalababya

15th Jun 2008, 12:50

Dragun

15th Jun 2008, 23:09

Yep sorry guys, shaded box definitely means subtracting 100'. Most plates don't have that option for the ILS approach however.

Capn'Arr - question 5. Yes you're correct that's why I said you have 10mins to contact ATC, not to give a departure report. :ok: Again, I'm not even sure that's what he's referring to in the question. I've never heard of mandatory time when the actual departure report must be given.

desmotronic

16th Jun 2008, 00:09

ENR 1.1
56.1 The pilot of an IFR aircraft operating from a non-towered aerodrome must attempt to contact ATS on VHF or HF when taxiing. If
the pilot is unable to establish contact, the flight may proceed on a
broadcast basis provided contact is established as soon as possible
after take-off, and
a. in the case of an RPT, CHTR or AWK flight, the pilot is assured
of radio contact with his or her operator, or a representative of
his or her operator who has immediate access to a serviceable
telephone, until contact is made with ATS, or
b. for flights other than RPT, a SARTIME for departure has been
established with a maximum of 30 minutes from ETD.

59.2 A pilot in command of an IFR flight must establish flight on the departure
track as soon as practicable after take-off and within 5NM
of the aerodrome, except that, at aerodromes which have published
standard instrument departure procedures, an IFR aircraft
may depart in accordance with those procedures. When established
on the departure track, and clear of the circuit traffic, the pilot
in command must report departure to ATC unless instructed otherwise

Victor India

16th Jun 2008, 00:22

Dragun and others,

With regard to which plates do and which plates don't have shading for the ILS approach minima:

It appears that the ILS approach minima to the 24 hour airports like Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane etc have no shading. I believe that an assumption has been made that there will ALWAYS be accurate QNH available from the tower.

On the other hand, ILS approaches at places like Tamworth, Hobart, East Sale, Launceston, Pearce, Tindal (Katherine), Avalon and Alice Springs all have shading on their ILS minima. This is because they all deactivate at certain times and become CTAFs, hence pilots may or may not have access to accurate QNH sources.

The anomoly is Edinburgh, which can be a CTAF and has no shading on its (220' HAT) ILS minima. I would be hesitant to use this minima unless I had an accurate QNH, even though strictly the rules allow it...

VI

Spelunker

16th Jun 2008, 02:20

2. Sorry I did actually mean forecast AREA QNH. So if using AREA QNH the alternate minima must be increased by 50' aswell correct?

6. Dragun, sorry not sure which part of the question you're refering to. So if a DME/GPS arrival with NDB navaid, then I only need to satisfy the DME/GPS 90 day recency requirement. Disregard the NDB recency requirements?

7. The question might be old, or the answer given incorrectly. But my question is, when an approach has CAT A,B,C,D then the 170kt max IAS in holding pattern doesn't apply just cause you're doing a CAT A or B arrival. The entire approach must be limitied to ONLY CAT A & B correct?

9. I read over the Bob Tait section again on this, and it is pretty self-explenatory. If doing a GPS arrival and even though you're above the current step, if loss of RAIM occurs then a missed approach and a climb to MSA/LSALT must be commenced.

desmotronic thats the reference i was looking for. I should have know that, since I read that part about 10 times in Bob Tait.

This IREX study can do your head in.

Thanks a heap for the quick responses guys, appreciate it. :ok:

Cap'n Arrr

16th Jun 2008, 02:26

Victor India

Guessing that since Edinburgh is within AD CTA, you would have accurate QNH from Adelaide App.

That's all I can come up with anyway:ok: