A Cherokee on Floats? The story so far..

[Deno]

I'm toying with the idea of puting a Cherokee 140 on floats. I know its something thats been done but I cant find you.

Lanched in the 60's and with few ever made the PA28 on floats is a rare sight.
However..

Piper Models PA-28-160 and PA-28-180, S/N 28-508 to 28-1760, and 28-1760A may be converted to the seaplane configuration, PA-28S-160 and PA-28S-180, in accordance with Piper Drawing No. 62008.

For the conversion of the aforementioned its not necassary for a FAA STC (supplementry Type Certificate). BUT...
Is it automaticaly EASA approved? and can I do it to the 140 model?

I've contacted a float company in Seattle who still make a float set, the full plan drawing looks sweet.

I'm waiting for a response from a Piper parts company to see if they can get the 3 or so parts needed from Piper to do the conversion.

Talking to my mechanic about how easily this can be done because I wouldn't like to be confined to water opps.

I would appreciate anyones thoughts on this idea especially with regards to EASA approval for the Cherokee 140.

Thanks in advance all

Deno

[HotPete]

Cherokee 140 on floats. Jesus!

[SIUYA]

HotPete..........

Cherokee 140 on floats. Jesus!

Hmmmmmm. I seem to recall that JC was supposed to be able to walk on water, but I really do have some doubt about a Cherokee 140 doing the same. :eek:

The mind boggles at the power:weight figures to get the thing airborne for a start, let alone staying there and going anywhere.

Deno............seems to me like there'sa whole lot better and much more exciting 'projects' that you should be considering rather than the mundane old 'Cherokee-140-on floats' idea.

Did you ever consider a Leyland P76 with wings? Sounds like a LOT more fun! And I'll bet it will perform a whole lot better too! :}

Maybe also the PT6 conversion to a Gogomobile..........I believe they go like the proverbial 'sh1t off a shovel'. I understand that there's never been one that's yet got airborne Deno, but don't let practicality/reality get in the way of those 'wonderful' ideas of yours ;)!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day Deno,

I admire the idea and your courage -financially- but wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper to simply buy an aircraft already fitted with the floats / wheels?

I seem to recall a beaver in Derby in 'those good ole days' being valued at around the $90K mark, (then) and a set of the floats / wheels thingies being about the same.....EXTRA!
Wasn't / isn't there, a Maule or something already equipped and available that could do the same for you?

Already certified - and a going concern would seem to be more appealing...?

Best Regards,:ok:

[SIUYA]

Griffo.............

Be kind to Deno! He can save a sh1tload on the whole project by going down the experimental route, can't he?

I still reckon the P76 is the way to go, using old 20 gallon oil drums welded together as floats. A LOT LOT cheaper than the $90K that you're suggesting!

Getting it offf the surface of the earth's another consideration though. :ooh:

[Howard Hughes]

Surely the 140 is way under powered for floats and that is why the STC applies to the 160 & 180HP versions.:eek:

Why not just save up for one of these! (http://www.creativeflight.com/):ok:

[SIUYA]

Howard..........

YES!

Forget about the P76 on wings.................Howard's suggestion's the WINNER. Accept an exploding Havana cigar Howard! :D:D

And at a measly CDN $230K (or so) what have you got to lose Deno? It's about $50K more than your oh-so-boring PA28 conversion, and the performance of the Aerocat makes the Cherokee option look like it's standing still!

I'm only going to need to save for about the next 5,000 years to afford one, so I'm really very excited! :8

SR (single-engine) version of the Aerocat about 150+kts................same for the TR twin-engine version................VERY impressive!

Twin-engine version about $310K by the looks of things. What's another $80K...........just another 1,700 years saving so no problems!

OK , Deno so you are probably going to be fairly limited in your use of the thing in inland Oz at present (because there's nowhere that you can easily land one of these suckers due to the drought), but if you're happy tooling around the coast then you are going to be one VERY cool dude in a really cool airframe!

[jumpuFOKKERjump]

I wouldn't like to be confined to water opps. Erm, you want to be able to taxy on land as well as the water? Does this 140 still have the 140 up front?

I don't actually have any specific evidence to use to p1ss on your dream, so best of luck with it.

[chimbu warrior]

A bit faster than the standard tinnie perhaps, but I doubt it will fly!

Wait until you try docking it. Lots of dinged leading edges, and not having doors on both sides of the cabin will not make it any easier, let alone when you are trying to sail it into a dock.

Can't wait to see this on You Tube.

[Beavers rule]

There's a Pa 28 180 on floats for sale in Sydney. I flew it way back in the mid 80's. Doesn't go too badly. The low wind can get in the way when docking and pumping floats. I don't think a 140 would even get off the water. BR

[Aerodynamisist]

Of the 172's you see on floats most are the hawk xp models, probably a good reason for that but if your gonna do it anyway then good luck to you. My advice would be keep the weight down and consider the aircraft a 2 seater you might be OK. Also try a climb prop and a STOL kit, also there is an stc for the 140 to bring it up to 160 horse's. If it's the really old pa28 (with the trim handle on the roof) you may not have the factory corrosion proofing of the later models.

See the Cherokee Pilots Association web site maybe there's some info there.
http://www.piperowner.com/

[Hasherucf]

With the problems I have seen with corrosion in Pipers especially the attach brackets in the tail I wouldn’t see them as an ideal candidate for floats.

[SIUYA]

Chimbu W..............

Faster than your average tinnie...........Can't wait to see this on You Tube.

That just has to win the post of 2008 I think! Outstanding! :D:D

Sorry Deno but it really looks like the general consensus here is that your 140 on floats 'isn't going to fly'! :(

[VH-XXX]

If you have a burning desire for floats and are worried about corrosion, a Jabiru would be a perfect candidate for them. Not certified, but ok as an amateur built. Have been calculating recently, around $97k for a 6 cylinder J170 fly away and about $110k for a J430 on floats if you want 3.5 seats which is more than your 140 will ever fit! Either model should cruise at around 100 knots on 25-26 litres per hour with 5 hours capacity.

[Capt Wally]

Oh God no not a jaba on floats!:bored: talk about being beatin' wif da ugly stick!:E Would be better performance wise than the PA28-140 on floats but sheeeez:E
'Deno' I see you ain't come back since yr thread started, we are only kidding mate, would be happy to give you lots of moral support of a 140 on floats, trust me you would need it !:ok:


CW:)

[dmussen]

My dear chap,
Disabuse yourself of this notion. They only just make it with the dangling Dunlops. Flew one in the early seventies thrice. That was enough.:=:=

[muddergoose]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27698067@N04/2583525830/

From one of my old aircraft encyclopaedias. This aircraft is still on the register and is registered to an address in West Ryde but it is fixed gear now.

[Lasiorhinus]

That's a -180, which at least gives it a fighting chance!:ok:

[dmussen]

My dear chap,
Disabuse yourself of this notion. They only just make it with the dangling Dunlops. Flew one in the early seventies thrice. That was enough.:=:=

[Capt Wally]

hey that pix doesn't look too bad, smart combination, remind me next time to do that, with a MODEL!:)
I must admit tho the old PA28 series is a rugged if not brutal airframe & capable of almost anything, inc being used as a boat!:E


CW

[Fantome]

Many posts on the subject here -

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=43430&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=50

[Cap'n Arrr]

If you had your heart set on a PA28 on floats, I'd be looking to get one of the higher powered ones... your floats are going to add a lot of drag and weight to it, and even the 150HP Warrior struggles on the best of days with fairings.

Wasn't there a 200 and something HP fixed gear PA28? If not would it be possible to drop a donk from an Arrow III in the front???

[kookabat]

Piper Dakota on floats maybe?

It's got the guts...

[Atlas Shrugged]

Why not get one of these....

http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/mig_exp/caproni-60.jpg

[Fantome]

Some say ahhh . . . de Havilland! But Guiseppe, he says aarrgh . . . Caproni!

[SIUYA]

Awesome Atlas Shrugged...............

A train carriage with (lots of) wings :uhoh:

The mind boggles.

But it looks to be a 'tad' underpowered though...........is that why those dudes in the boat appear to be towing the thing? :confused:

[Flyingblind]

I hear from reliable sources that it is indeed Geoff Dixsons retirement barge, the fans are there to keep him cool whilst lift will be supplied by the vast currants of air generated by his fan club.

:ok:

[SIUYA]

Flyingblind............

Something's wrong here!

the fans are there to keep him [Geoff Dixon] cool whilst lift will be supplied by the vast currants of air generated by his [Geoff Dixon's] fan club

After all I've read on PPRuNe, I didn't think Geoff Dixon HAD a fan club. :confused::confused:

[Capt Wally]

..............oh he has a fan club alright, all TWO of them will be there!:}
The rest of QF's employees will be having a wake, before his demise!
That's a great photo, to think that at the time that was most likely considered cutting edge!:bored:

CW

[Ejector]

I heard those Cherokee floats in Sydney are available and are very tight if you want them still. Don't know how much but a friend of a friend has them now apparently. :ok: Just send a carton of beer for a commission !!!!:D

[Wally Mk2]

Google search showed a PA23 Apache on floats, that's the same as a PA28-140 I'd say!:E



Wmk2

[Paul O'Rourke]

Atlas Shrugged's picture triggered a memory.:}

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv283/PaulO-001/dastardleyandmuttley.jpg

Resume normal programming.

[RENURPP]

I have a vague memory of seeing a 140 on floats around Tuggerah lakes back in about 1970's - 80's, it could possibly have been a 160 but definitely not any bigger.

The PA28-235 would be ideal!

[osmosis]

Had a copy of this in my library for a while:
http://s1.bild.me/bilder/030611/thumb_37772021704456.jpg (http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=37772021704456.jpg)

along with this:
http://s1.bild.me/bilder/030611/thumb_68692881542692.jpg (http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=68692881542692.jpg)

[Tinstaafl]

Low wings & a single door exiting onto one wing aren't terribly cooperative with docking. Pumping out floats would be more awkward than high wing types too.

If you want land as well as water abilities then you'll need amphibian floats. More expensive & heavier.

[Aussie Bob]

My dream has always been to kit out a 150 with amphibs and long range tanks. Just the thing for a round Aus trip me thinks.

Thanks guys, this post has given me inspiration.

[LocoDriver]

A Cherokee on floats..... OMG....,A Cherokee without floats is bad enough....
but a 150 on floats, now that sounds like the ulimate....!


Anyway, I am the proud owner of a Leyland P76... had it for years, owned several of them over time.
Its a classic now, comes out on special occasions, and I have considered fitting my boats bilge pump to it, they leak like sieves when it rains :E

But, the P76 is pure class... drive into a gas station, and people ask, "what is that?" :ok:

[Wally Mk2]

'Loco' there might be a pill you can take to rid you of those desires to drive around in the ugliest car ever built!:E I used to be a motor mech in another life & they where the most awful things to work on. Once upon a time ya could buy 'em for nufin'!:-) Alloy heads on alloy block (V8)Talk about askin' for trouble down the track....eeeekkkk!
Still they did have a boot big enuf to fit a 44 gallon drum in it, needed these days just to get out of the state !:E

Hey 'Aussie bob' you sure yr not having a lend of us all here buddy? A 150 hp Cherokee on floats with long range tanks as well? Shame ya gunna have to stay at home while it goes flying on it's own as with full tanks & floats you would even have to remove the seat cushions to get it blw MTOW never lone you being actually on board!:)

Wmk2

[RadioSaigon]

hmmm... as I remember the venerable Cherokee 140:

Full tanks, 2 POB and a toothbrush each, you were 15lb over MAUW! I too would like to see something on YouTube of one on floats! :E

[tail wheel]

Are JATOs approved for the Cherokee? It will need JATO bottles to get unstuck! :hmm:

[maverick22]

Was just flicking through the book "Standard Catalog of Piper Single Engine Aircraft" by Jim Cavanagh and came across these pics which made me think of this thread.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd430/Bryn_Deasy/cherokeefloats001.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd430/Bryn_Deasy/cherokeefloats002.jpg

:ok:

[SaltAsh]

Renurpp,

VH-AMP if I recall. Last seen in a creek near Charmhaven.

PS: Wallarah Creek.

[172driver]

Funny that - none of the pics of Pipers on floats show the thing actually flying...:E

[Stationair8]

Very valid point 172.

[Ejector]

Corporate Hoore (http://hoore.com/pic/helo/bktower/float_medium.jpg)

Pic of one landing into the river at Bankstown.
Pic taken form the tower possibly about 4 years ago.

FYI, all it took was a very simple search in Google to find this :mad: :=

[Scion]

This aeroplane is at present in storage but if anyone wants to get in contact with the owner, to perhaps help him get in the water/air again please PM me and I can arrange something.

[wieesso]

quote: "- none of the pics of Pipers on floats show the thing actually flying.."

- at least two ;)
Aircraft C-GYGD (1971 Piper PA-28-140X C/N 28-7125588X) Photo by DianesDigitals (Photo ID: AC502628) (http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/502628.html)
Aircraft C-GYGD (1971 Piper PA-28-140X C/N 28-7125588X) Photo by DianesDigitals (Photo ID: AC502620) (http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/502620.html)

[zkdli]

I guess the one at Bankstown was at its service ceiling ;)

[Piano Man]

I love floats, and don't mind flying a Cherokee once in a while, however putting the two together!
:ugh::ugh::ugh: