Illegal Operations & Shut Downs

[Pontius]

Dear Computer Dudes,

Forgive a silly ol' duffer if he doesn't know what's going on, but I need some help to stop me going nuts (ok, any further nuts).

Fairly often I'm being told of illegal operations during Internet use. Closing the warning then keeps me connected to the telephone but closes Explorer and I find myself facing my Desktop page. So some more details.

Tried to get to the Radio 1 website (don't laugh). So I typed in the www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/) bit and waited. Bottom of the screen told me that website was found and the screen started to load up a blue background. Then I got my, now standard, message.

This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.....

'Close' = return to the desktop (see above).

'Details' = IEXPLORE found an invalid page format in module KERNEL32.DLL @ 0137:bff7297c.

There followed a load of numbers under the headings of 'Registers' 'Bytes' and 'Stack dump.

I seem to get this a lot and with many and varying websites. I always seem to get the KERNEL32.DLL bit in the details. It's very frustrating as I can't get any further into the websites then a bit of initial background coming up.

Does anyone else get these problems and if so, can any of you guys with expert knowledge help poor ol' Pontius get his machine sorted out.

Thanks in advance for any info you might have.

Pontius the non-computer genius

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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!

[DreamCatcher]

It may be that Kernel32.dll (a library file that handles sub-routines - but don't worry about that!) is corrupt. You could always try re-installing it from the Windows CD.

Any other linked files could also be suspect - what version of Windows are you on? Could you run System Restore?

Sometimes with 'stack' overflows, the system can't cope if you're flicking between sites and pages, trying to download too much at once.

If you can give an idea as to your setup, and how you use the net, more of us may be able to help.

Cheers

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If you're not on the edge, then you're taking up too much space.

[Engineer]

Could be a software conflict Try running minimum of programmes in the background

To do this if using Me go ctrl alt delete examine close program dialogue box and end all tasks except "explore" "sys tray" and and any "anti virus" programmes

Repeat this for each task Then launch your browser Good luck

[Smurfjet]

Pontius,

Just checked your radio1 website, and guess what! Lots of Java in there! In fact too much that my machine blurted!
No its not the coffee, its that thing that makes websites flashy and all, albeit at a cost!

On the other hand, this is just a wild guess, and try to find out if you crash when you go to pages with Java or Flash...

If they're flashy and you crash (god forbids) then most probably its Java/Flash causing it.

Cheers
SJ

EDIT Never assume! Ugh...

[This message has been edited by Smurfjet (edited 11 March 2001).]

[Pontius]

Thanks guys for your replies so far.

I don't think I'm operating too many things in the background, but I will try the CTRL,ALT,DEL thing and see if that works. Basically I start up the computer, click on my blue Explorer 'E' and go straight on line. Doubtless there are many things going on that I've got no idea about, so I'll certainly have a look.

As for my setup. Well, I'm still in the dark ages. A pentium 233, 64MB RAM and a 'normal' 60 something modem (or is it 56)..anyway the standard thing. I use Windows 95 (stop laughing you lot) and Explorer 5.

DreamCatcher, how do you get hold of the system restore thing? I'll try re-installing the Kernell job from the CD.

Smurfjet. I don't really know if these sites contain lots of coffee. Is there any way I could tell if there is lots of Java around and anything I can do about it if there is? I mean, surely these sites are made to be visited by 'normal' computers and not just Crays. So why would they use so much Java stuff if one couldn't download the site? My A level computer science in the 80s never discussed this. Oh, for a BBC B, tape recorder and BASIC.

Cheers everyone and keep your 'how to's' coming.

Pontius

[spannersatcx]

kernel32.dll sits in your PC memory and its job is memory mangement, among other things. you get the error because another program or task that you have set away tries to access the memory space that kernel32.dll is sitting in. It gets the hump and you get the error message. Try disabling any unnecessary programs from your startup using the MSCONFIG command from Start/Run

[bral]

I used to have similar problems when I had Norton Crash protection installed. I removed that and the problem stopped.

[BOAC]

Strange! I have just started getting Kernel32 invalids in the last 2/3 days too. I have reverted to IE5.0 from 5.5 and that is running ok with no page faults but does not seem to be installed properly!
W98 reinstall ahead!

[Ausatco]

Pontius,

The age thing ... we're in this together :)

I have a relatively Jurassic PII 233, 128MB, Win 98SE and IE5.5. I have an ubelievable amount of crap running all the time, so much that a little utility I have says that right now I have half a megabyte of free ram ! Also, FWIW, Resource meter says system and user resources are both 48% free and GDI resources are 63% free.

With all this baggage on board, I went to your BBC site and it loaded quickly and without error.

As a test for an overloaded computer, I loaded it five times in five separate windows simultaneously and also fully refreshed each one (CTRL refresh). No problems.

Don't know what this proves, except that it can be done and that my problems are not as bad as yours :)

I would go for a "save data, re-format and reload Win95" fix. Or better still, upgrade to Win98 - it's more robust and will work happily with the 64 Mb ram that you have. Better still is Win98SE - more mature again, with most of the on-line updates to Win98 incorporated.

Good luck

AA

[ExSimGuy]

Win 98SE - far, far more stable than Win95 was, but still runs on older systems (within reason - it's rather slow on my P133 laptop, but it works :) )

[Engineer]

ExSimguy
Believe that the only different with 95 and 98 is that 98 supports tighter web integration, the active desktop became a standard feature with support for net based sevices and support for multiple monitors.

Hence if the Win95 issued has been updated with all revisions from the MS website almost as good but not as supercharged as 98

Pontius Sys "restore" is a new application programme interface that comes with Win Me

Cheers

Always willing to learn

[This message has been edited by Engineer (edited 12 March 2001).]

[spannersatcx]

There is a lot more to 98 than 95, better hardware support for 1 and USB support plus many others, I now have very very infrequent blue screens as 98 is far more stable than 95 ever was. But I guess that is a different thread altogether.

[Pontius]

Gee there's a lot of people out there with good brains. Thanks again guys, I'll keep trying.

Spanners: I'll try that MSConfig thing. I did try the ctrl alt del suggestion of Engineers but I think I may have stopped a few things that I shouldn't have. I got the Explorer telling me I'd been illegal again and then couldn't get back into it at all without re-booting. Dumb-ass that I am.

This re-formatting sounds a bit scary. If I do the save data thing, will it keep everything I've got on my hard drives or will it format everything? I've only ever formatted a floppy before!!

I'll keep trying and in the meantime keep that grey matter stirring to help out a computer dork.

Cheers,

Pontius

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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!

[Pontius]

Just to make sure you lot are thoroughly bored with my predicament:

Managed to find the Kernel32.dll thing in the Widows/System folder. Thought I might be able to replace it with a 'new' one off the W95 CD. Trouble is, it ain't there. Searched everywhere on the CD but this Kernel chap must have sneaked in from somewhere else. Any ideas?


As I said above; I tried shutting down unecessary progs going on in the background, but that managed to completely muck up Explorer and I could only get it going again by re-booting. I tried to give the MSCONFIG job a go, but that doesn't exist on my computer. Again, I searched for it, but to no avail.

It would seem that replacing my Kernel would be the way ahead, or possibly resetting it, if I knew how. Does anybody else's Kernel have more that 405kb, 'cos that's what mine is and I was thinking that the Java stuff was 'filling up' the file and not letting it do its job.

Sorry to keep going on about this, but it's very frustrating not being able to access a bunch of sites.

Pontius

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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!

[Ausatco]

Pontius,

The file you're looking for is compressed into one of the cabinet files on the Win95CD. It's in Win95_11.cab in the d:\win95 folder, assuming D is your CD drive letter (substitute your CD drive letter for D if necessary).

I will explain an indirect fix to avoid possible problems that you may or may not encounter.

Try this:-

Use Windows Explorer to copy the Win95_11.cab file from the Win95 folder on your Win95 CD to any suitable folder on your hard drive - try c:\temp or c:\windows\temp - you'll have one of those. I'll assume c:\temp for the next step. If you choose something different, then replace c:\temp below with whatever you choose.

Click Start, then Run.
In the window type
extract c:\temp\win95_11.cab kernel32.dll /l c:\temp

This will extract kernel32.dll to c:\temp. It really needs to go to c:\windows\system, but Windows may not let you put it there while Windows is running - I'm not sure, so I'm doing it this longish way to avoid possible problems.

Click Start, Shut Down, Restart in DOS mode.

When you get a prompt like this
C:\windows>
(or whatever it is, doesn't matter), type

copy c:\temp\kernel32.dll c:\windows\system
and hit Enter. Remember if you used a folder other than c:\temp earlier, then use that folder name.

eg, if you used c:\windows\temp earlier, then the command would be
copy c:\windows\temp\kernel32.dll c:\windows\system

You will asked whether ot not to overwrite, Y/N. Type Y and enter.

That should have replaced kernel32.dll.

Reboot and see how you go.

Watch the spaces in those commands above - they're important, and in the EXTRACT command, that /l is l for lima.

If it works, clean up by deleting the .cab file and the kernel file from the temporary folder you used.

Hope this helps

AA

[This message has been edited by Ausatco (edited 13 March 2001).]

[Pontius]

Ausatco,

Thanks for your very specific help (it's what an idiot like me needs).

I eventually managed to locate the kernel32 file in win95-17 cabinet and not the _11 one (it only took expanding 1580 files!!!). Fortunately I remembered my *.* stuff from years back and managed to see the kernel thing as it was extracted. I'm sure your computer has it in the right place and appreciate your help.

Anyway, I managed to copy it into the Windows system folder (you're right, you can't do it while Windows is running) and then rebooted. I'm afraid to say, though, that the result was not good (despite crossing all fingers and toes).

So I've got my squeaky clean copy of Kernel32 in the windows system folder but it still doesn't like loading up the radio1 website. I still get the illegal operation stuff and it still closes down my Explorer. I blame the French (only joking).

So, anybody got any fresh ideas. The ones so far have been good....just not that lucky.

Thanks everyone,

Pontius

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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!

[Mac the Knife]

Pontius

1) I don't think that you're in the Dark Ages - your PC (apart from being a bit short of memory) is the same as Ausatco's and my PII (except that mine is overclocked a bit to 250MHz. It zooms thru the Net, Java and all, just as Ausat says. Just moved up to a supersonic PIII with a whizzbang video card and am mildly disappointed that I don't see THAT much difference (except when working with huge complex images in Paint Shop Pro, which I do a lot. Even a max of 56K from the modem is Sooooooo sloooooow that a 386 could almost keep up.

2) The major benefit was really a complete reinstall of Win98SE. It cleared out an awful lot of cr*p from all sorts of early experiments and discarded programs and tho' it was a major major pain (I had to reinstall twice before I got a stable system) everything is silky smooth now. I'll do the PII when I've recovered. The irritation is finding the CDs and disks and downloaded installers for what you had and then working out what you REALLY need - my PacketCD disk mysteriously disappeared and I was shafted until PPRuNE (in the form of spannersatcx) found me the drivers. And don't forget all those passwords and CD codes...

So what I suggest is that you locate a friendly local PPRuNer in London (can't be too difficult) or an honest and intelligent computer dealer (almost impossible). Beef up your memory to 128MB (not expensive), buy a new hard drive (about 100GBP for a 20Gig), install Win98SE and get online again. You can still use your old harddrive and you can gradually shift the data to the new one.

Once Windows gets REALLY fouled up it is theoretically possible to fix it. In practice, a fresh install is often quicker and easier.

As for the BBC micro, my trusty Spectrum still runs - it still works hard 5/7 switching things on/off in the lab and recording/displaying data from a laser doppler flowmeter.

Good luck!

[edited to change inadvertent reference to WinME which I don't like, but may well be good for you unless you run any DOS games]

[This message has been edited by Mac the Knife (edited 13 March 2001).]

[Ausatco]

Pontius,

Sorry about the cab-11/cab-17 stuff-up. You really had to do it the hard way, but glad you wirked through it.

After I posted I realised that you could have a different version of Win95 from mine and that the cab file could be different, but it was time for beddie-byes (prior to an early shift) so I was not able to persist.

For info, there is a switch in the extract command to find and extract a single file from somewhere within a chain of cab files, but my reason for not going that way was that you'd have had to copy all the cab files to your temp folder, and I'd convinced myself at the time that you only needed the 11th cab http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

To get a bit more info on extract open a DOS window and type extract then ENTER. That gives you a brief summary.

I sort of expected that re-installing kernel32.dll wouldn't fix the prob, but it was worth a shot - I think your Windows installation is sick and that Mac's suggestion is the way to go.

Do you have 2 hard drives, or more than one partition on a single drive. If so, and if necessary, you could save your data to a folder or folders in that other partition or drive (if there's room), then reformat the C: drive and re-install everything without buying the extra hardware.

But Mac's suggestion is the better way to go if you can do it.

Sorry it didn't work out.

Cheers

AA

[Pontius]

Thanks again chaps.

Ausatco, I dod have a c & D drive and have very little stuff on the D, so when I'm feeling brave i may well do that.

All in all, it seems the price in the UK of computers has fallen so much I'm tempted to give this one to the kids for school work and get on the phone to Mesh. I would use their website but I keep getting illegal ops messages :) well, you have to laugh don't you.

£1500 for a 1200Mhz AMD Athlon, 40GB hard drive, 256mb RAM and CD re/writer isn't a bad deal is it. The good thing about Mesh is they don't come full up with loads of crap you don't want, unlike some manufacturers I could mention.

I'll have to start talking to the Ultimate Power and see if she'll let me have a new toy.

Toodle pip for now,

Pontius

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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!

[CONES R US]

Better still, you could buy an I-MAC G4.
Much better than any PC by far



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Gimme a bottle of anything, and a glazed donut......TO GO!

[Engineer]

CRU
A perfect match for the G4 - a bottle of anything and a glazed donut (tongue in cheek)
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[Dimsim]

I had similar illegal operations to BOAC when I upgraded to IE5.5 from IE5.0. Have since reverted to IE5.0 without any further recurrence. I run a Pentium I type machine and sometimes wonder whether the latest software releases are compatible with the old MMX type processors. So I'd try reverting back to IE5.0. I tried to use the IE5.5 uninstall utility thats supposed to put the old version of IE back, but this reverted me back to IE4 and scrooed up my outlook express so I'd suggest installing IE5 from a CD.

[Ausatco]

Dimsim,

When that happens, just let it go back to IE4, then upgrade to IE5.0. Been there, done that!

Having said that, I vaguely recall from the distant past that on one occasion there was a version conflict on my system. I thought I had backed to IE4, tried to put IE5.0 on but *&^% machine thought it was still at 5.5 and wouldn't let 5.0 install. That may have precipitated my last reinstall http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

AA

[BOAC]

Ausatco: Yes, funny that! The same for me. I 'appeared' to have ie4 on the system, but when I 'reverted to previous' it came up with a version of 5.0 which was not fully functional (and not showing on 'remove programmes' panel!) and would not allow re-install of 4 or 5.
W98 renistalled, no change. Finally took my courage in both hands and deleted the internet explorer keys in the registry (not for the faint-hearted!) and so far have now got 5.0 on and apparently working ok (and showing as in installed, which is progress!) and am about to try and reinstall 5.5.
Bill Gates I love you - not!

[Ausatco]

But BOAC, think of the rich knowledge we gain making all this stuff work.

Think how correspondingly poor the Mac users are :)

(Cap'n Pprune excepted, of course.)

AA

[BOAC]

I'd give it all up...............
PARTIAL success! IE5.5 installed and runs with no invalid page faults .......but..........I have 'DNS error' and cannot access any sites. Am back to IE5.0 which runs fine. Have tried the MS Knowledge Base. Any ideas?

[Ausatco]

I can't help you with a fast fix for that one, sorry.

BTW, have you downloaded IE5.5 Service Release 1 from MS yet? If you haven't then it might be worth a go - the installation, which is pretty major, might overwrite and fix the problem areas. And if you save the downloaded files somewhere safe you'll have them for if/when you re-format and re-install. It's big - 15 or so megabytes, maybe more.

Cheers

AA

[This message has been edited by Ausatco (edited 18 March 2001).]

[BOAC]

Tracked down the culprit! Zone Alarm!
It works just fine with ie5.0 and DID with 5.5 but has thrown a wobbler now. With it disabled 5.5 is ok and I am downloading SP1 thanks, ausatco.
Waiting for Zone Alarm to respond to my query as to why.

[Ausatco]

I have also found that Zone Alarm and CuteFTP 4.0 are not happy together.

AA

[BOAC]

Reference any Zone Alarm problems, try this:

ZoneAlarm is dependent on its TrueVector service to function properly. You may need to refresh the files associated with this service, especially after a networking change, OS change, or ZoneAlarm update.

First, verify that the TrueVector driver is running by opening ZoneAlarm's Configure Panel and checking its status.

If the panel is displaying TrueVector driver as loaded and ZoneAlarm is still not functioning properly, it is possible that some files have become corrupt. To repair this problem, please follow these steps. Please note that this will remove your program permission settings, but re-establishing them is a simple process.

1. Shutdown ZoneAlarm. Wait a few seconds for it to shut down. Then make sure that the services are no longer running:
Win9x/ME: Press ctrl-alt-del and end the following tasks if they are
running:
vsmon, minilog, and zonealarm

Winnt: go to start->settings->control panel, open services and stop Truevector Internet Monitor, it may ask you to stop Truevector Logging Client which is ok as well. Select Startup in the services applet and set both Truevector Services to disabled

Win2k: click start->run and type services.msc . Stop Truevector Internet Monitor and set it to disabled. Do the same for Truevector Logging Client as well.

2. Open the Internet Logs directory (in 95/98/ME this will be "c:\windows\internet logs", in NT and 2000 it will be c:\winnt\internet logs), where you will find a file called "iamdb.rdb" and a file named after your computer with the ".ldb" extension.

3. Delete both of these files. (If you get an error deleting, check services again)

4. Reboot your system.

ZoneAlarm will boot up again with a fresh database.

If you are unable to delete the files, you may need to uncheck the "Load ZA at Startup" and reboot your system before performing the steps above.

If you are running windows 2000, Zonealarm has services which are dependent on other services running on your computer. If the TrueVector drivers aren't loading up and gives you an error message:

1. Log in as administrator
2. Right-click on "my computer"
3. Select "Manage"
4. Select "Services and Applications"
5. Select "Services"
6. Right click on "Truevector Internet Monitor"
7. Select "properties"
8. Ensure the startup type is automatic and the service is started (in the service status field).
9. Click the "Dependencies" tab. There you see what services the truevector drivers need running in order to function properly. Make sure those services are also started the same way you checked the truevector internet monitor ones.