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airship
11th Jun 2008, 21:42
How very odd that intelligence assesments on Al -Qaeda (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7449255.stm) are distributed thusly (quite apart from these reports being forgotten on trains)... :confused:

Is it simply a straight-forward issue of language?! If otherwise, I reckon the French, Germans and Spanish (for a start) might understandably feel a little upset by this... :eek:

Overdrive
11th Jun 2008, 21:58
Another "accidental" loss.

airfoilmod
11th Jun 2008, 22:16
That can't be a good thing.

BarbiesBoyfriend
11th Jun 2008, 22:23
Monkeyflight

Correct!

He should have posted it up on pprune so we could all have a gander at it.:eek:

tony draper
11th Jun 2008, 22:26
A friend on mine was once accidentally faxed about ten sheets of documents that could have proved very embarrassing to a particular public service had they fallen into the wrong hands ie the press,he phoned me for advice so I collected said documents and returned them to the sender via a third party who told me the particular departemen head was grovellingly greatful.
Anyway had they got into the public domain bet your life the wrong person would have been sacked,some poor bloody spear carrier far down the chain.
Besides one despises the press even more than the government service involved.
:)

The Real Slim Shady
11th Jun 2008, 22:32
Send them to the Mail.

And The Sun.

Etc

CityofFlight
11th Jun 2008, 22:37
It's a sad day when the first party contacted is the media and not police.

airship
11th Jun 2008, 23:18
Perhaps the people these days instinctively trust the media (in spite of all their vices) more than they do a branch of their government (especially those that didn't get their back-dated payrises - care for us, we'll care for you...)?! We should all be very, very afraid, the police can **** you up real bad if they want to... :uhoh:

soddim
11th Jun 2008, 23:21
I used to enjoy carrying a file marked "UK/Canada Eyes only" when I worked in USA but "For UK/US/Canadian and Australian eyes only"... might well annoy our transatlantic cousins even more in these troubled times!

Maybe Al Qaeda left the docs on the train??

CityofFlight
12th Jun 2008, 00:01
You can't be serious. :ugh: You must get your fix on trying to incite others OR your country is in pathetic shape. I think it's the former.

Time will tell if it was a hoax...it seems odd that anyone with access to such intelligence would breach protocals by being so reckless.

Either way, the positive outcome is that someone in the BBC determined the seriousness of the intelligence and posted NOTHING in the media of them. (so far) Then, who did they turn them over to...the police I believe it was? So if the BBC can trust them....

John Hill
12th Jun 2008, 00:14
Just another of Osama's 'Videos from the grave'.

airship
12th Jun 2008, 00:19
You can't be serious. As General George S. Patton was reputed to have once said (or perhaps it was simply George C. Scott in the movie): It's not important for (you) to know. It's only important for me (and the mods) to know when I'm joking...?! :ok:

CityofFlight
12th Jun 2008, 00:21
Say no more Airship....say no more. ;)

airship
12th Jun 2008, 00:38
You're far too reasonable to be a full-blooded American Sir. Are you by any chance from California?! By 'eck, Seattle is in fact in Washington state- a bit further north from Sacramento...? It's warmer the further south you go you know.

Anyway, warmest regards to both you and Arnold - I've watched the governor on Jay Leno - he has a great sense of humour too (for an Austrian)! It's too bad he can't be a candidate for President :)

CityofFlight
12th Jun 2008, 01:00
I've posted myself on JB's photo list. (last page, not alphabetized--yet) Guess I should be proud that I'm not so easily categorized!

Seattle is a great area. Not enough sun. Too many liberals. Someday, I hope to see more countries and leave more footprints. And perhaps meet some PPRuNers along the way!

Cheers!

galaxy flyer
12th Jun 2008, 01:24
Best description of Seattle from Maureen Dowd NYT:

"Jackboots in Sandals"

That used to be a fairly common stamp on intell due to the unwillingness to trust our NATO partner's intelligence services being compromised by the KGB. Hard to defend after Mr. Philby, I suppose. In any case, who cares post-1989?

GF

CityofFlight
12th Jun 2008, 01:31
I can see where that comes from. I'm a transplant, not a native. Originally from east coast. Interestingly enough, the concentration of liberals are in the Seattle area. East of the Cascade Mtns, they tend to be staunch conservatives.

And..personally speaking....I loathe Birkenstocks and Hemp clothing, the uniform of the PNW tree huggers... :yuk: :} :p

clicker
14th Jun 2008, 21:26
More secret files found on train, although I wonder if the person who found the first files kept another batch for another paper hoping to get "rewarded" given its funny they are both found on the same day.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7455084.stm

PLovett
15th Jun 2008, 06:50
I have just heard a radio item that a second classified file has been turned in after being found left on a train in the UK.:eek:

Nothing unusual about that these days, Brits seem to be leaving all kinds of classified things about these days, laptop, files, data discs. Now, it may be one thing to leave these type of things in your car but in a train carriage?
WTF are they doing with this stuff? Showing off to their fellow passengers? "Look what I've got. Bet you haven't got anything like this.":hmm:

Unless you are exhausted to the point of being a walking zombie it struck me that it must be fairly difficult to lose this stuff. You don't ordinarily leave your briefcase, laptop whatever, especially if the thing contains confidential info. That leaves one with the thought that perhaps this stuff was deliberately left in order to embarass HMG.:suspect:

Perhaps I am being too suspicious, been watching too many conspiracy films or whatever. Your thoughts please.:ok:

airship
15th Jun 2008, 07:08
I wouldn't worry too much about it all, because according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7455084.stm) that makes it: Dame Pauline Neville-Jones, Conservative shadow security spokesman, said: "We've now had eight major breaches that we know of in six months. The Conservatives would have kicked up an even greater fuss except they understood that 'all the Queen's men' have been very busy recently destroying the records of MPs' expenses before those too were left behind on some suburban train. National security concerns sometimes come a distant, second place...?! :uhoh:

CityofFlight
15th Jun 2008, 15:52
IMHO...finding classified docs a 2nd time is no accident. What remains to be determined is for what purpose. :suspect:

G-CPTN
15th Jun 2008, 16:07
First, I believe that the two sets of documents were 'found' (and, presumably, lost) on the same day. The first set were handed-in to the BBC (note, not the Police) and subsequently I believe the second set were offered to a newspaper (again, not the Police).
I heard that the first set were reported as missing, and a 'search' was under way. Of course, none of this might be true.

It makes you wonder how often such losses occur . . .

Or maybe, perhaps, they were 'drops' that were intercepted?

CityofFlight
15th Jun 2008, 17:00
In regards to your last sentence, I've been wondering the same. Then I think: Classified docs, left behind on a train, within days of 1st, AGAIN? No, it doesn't make sense, it's too reckless for "a drop that went wrong". It would appear these are being left for anyone to find.

What a malicious endeavor if the contents threaten national security.

G-CPTN
15th Jun 2008, 17:08
Apparently, the first 'loser' has been identified and has been suspended (allegedly).
I wonder if they will be able to trace the second loser?

CityofFlight
16th Jun 2008, 04:35
Well, whatever the purpose of these 2 breaches, I hope we find out. In the meantime, I hope the leak of this classified info doesn't jeopardize your country. With UK as a friend and ally, it concerns me. We're subject to terrorism from the same enemy and we have each other's backs, regardless of the sentiments on PPRuNe.

Davaar
16th Jun 2008, 04:54
Okay! Confession time! Thank Heavens my papers were trivial.

As I say ........................ I once entered a wrong digit in a fax address and happily sent a letter to the wrong addressee.

I know because I received several pages of wit in reply.

They were signed something like:

"With best wishes from Mickey, Donald, Pluto and the Gang,

Your Pal,

Goofy".

I really could not complain that Disney Studios lacked a sense of humour.

barry lloyd
16th Jun 2008, 12:23
First, I believe that the two sets of documents were 'found' (and, presumably, lost) on the same day. The first set were handed-in to the BBC (note, not the Police) and subsequently I believe the second set were offered to a newspaper (again, not the Police).


Man in street finds documents on train - takes them to nearest police station.
"What have you got there sir?"
"Some documents that I found on a train, which appear to relate to national security."
"I see, which train was this sir?"
"The 1246 to Waterloo."
"Was anyone else with you when you found these?"
"No."
"Have you shown them to anyone else?"
"No."
"Your name and addres sir."
"John Anthony Smith, Sixteen Acacia Avenue."
Two hours later:
Knock at door, policeman with search warrant.
"We have a warrant to search your premises."
Computer is taken away, hard drive examined, etc.
Next day:
Knock at door:
"Sir we'd like you to come down to the station to answer some questions."
Two hours later:
"We're arresting you under the Official Secrets Act for possession of documents likely to be of use to an enemy. Anything you say etc..."
"But I just found them on a train."
"We've checked with the security services, and they deny all knowledge of them. Now sir, about these items on your hard drive...Let's start with this PPRuNe lot then, they seem to be a very bolshie bunch...":)

If I found anything like that, I'd just destroy it and say nowt.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
16th Jun 2008, 14:56
Working with sensitive documents day in day out can whittle away at personal vigilance and concentration. Much of this stuff is as boring as hell and very often over classified. Having dispersed site and meetings all over the place does not help matters; and neither does the current trend towards working from home.

It is not in an individual's personal interest to lose a document and not immediately report it. The failure to report a loss is viewed more severely than the actual loss.

The public spirited person who handed the papers to the Media was also not overly bright. That said, where are members of the Public taught what to do and made responsible regarding Government papers they happen across? The scenario Posted by barry lloyd looks all to possible in Noo Labour's Britain.