Getting into Cargo Holds

[Arbottle]

Hi folks,

I'm in need of a bit of expert help - is it possible for crew members to go down into the cargo holds of aircraft during a flight (Um, one that might potentially have a coffin in it.) I've read that some older aircraft had crew rest areas in the hold (Now located above the passengers?)

[If you're interested, it's for a story I'm writing]

Type of plane - umm, one that allows access to cargo holds. So far not specified! It's not hugely important, but just a minor detail I'd like to be as accurate as possible.

[SNS3Guppy]

That would really depend on the aircraft and the nature of the cargo compartment. Some are acccessable in flight, some are not. The cargo compartment is classified according to it's firefighting requirements and capabilities, in flight. Compartments which can do not require crewmember for direct access in flight, such as those having their own extinguishing capability, may not have direct access.

What you see on the movies, where a crewmember or secret agent crawls around the airplane in all sorts of hidden spaces and passageways, isn't possible in most airplanes.

[DrBenway]

even if you can get into the cargo hold (the 747 you can go down into the eec bay via first class, then aft into the cargo) the way cargo is packed there would be no room to move about or open doors.

cargo isnt a little bit here and there that you can walk around it (like in the movies), its normally packed into the exact shape of the cargo hold, with no more than a few centimeter gap around it.

the 747 classic with the cargo container crew rest is a sealed unit, there is no way from the container into the hold.

[diddy1234]

When I flew with Thai Air to Thailand on a 747, I did notice a small stair way at the back of the aircraft.

I had a little peek and noticed a crew rest area above the passenger area.

I was very small and had a few beds there and that was it.

On a 747 is there any other crew rest area's ?

What about on other long haul aircraft, where is the rest area's on these ?

[Valeman]

Crew rest areas are either above or below the main deck dependant upon a/c type.
747s are accessed by steps adjacent to door 5 left and are above the cabin whereas, where fitted, A340-600 are accessed through a hatch in the floor beside the rear galley. The hatch is in what looks like a cupboard.
A340-200 has the capability to carry a crew rest pod in the rear hold. This is connected electrically and again accessed from the main cabin. BA 777 crew rest area is above the cabin midships.
The configuration of crew rest areas varies between companies.
A coffin would most likely, but not definitely, be in the rear 'bulk' hold and would therefore not be accessable from the cabin. If it was carried in either main hold it would be in a container or netted down on a pallet.
Hope this helps.

[Diesel_10]

DC10 Combi Pax had lifts (2) down to the lower lobe from the main deck galleys 4 and 5. At the rear of the downstairs galley was/is a sliding door into the fwd lower freight hold. Could be opened either from freight hold or lower lobe galley. The lower lobe galley being loaded with galley carts via the fwd. freight door.
Airlines I remember were World, Laker. Air Florida, Eastern, Wardair and possibly CAL -10's.

B707 had a trap door from cockpit into lower 41 and thence a door into fwd end of the fwd freight - never knew why, fire I guess.

[Notso Fantastic]

Well according to Leonardo di Caprio in that nonsensical piece of garbage fiction, 'Catch Me If You Can', it is possible, with an FBI agent waiting outside the lavatory on a B707, to slide out and climb down into the wheel well and make your escape! *

Don't worry about reality, just write any rubbish with doors and hatches anywhere you want them! Look at 'Executive Decision'. The reading public will never know the difference. Look what broomsticks and wands did for J. K. Rowling!

* Whilst showing a friend around the VC10 at Brooklands, I had a sudden flashback to 31 yers ago and remembered where the secret release catch is that opens up the complete back wall of the rear toilets into the enormous tailcone area. Real jaw dropping stuff to someone who has never seen it!

[chornedsnorkack]

As for the overhead crew rests, see this Boeing demonstrator plane:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-777-240-LR/0864326/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-777-240-LR/0887391/L/

See how much A300 sidewalls slope inwards above.

The upright B777 sidewalls means that they need very much space before they meet at the roof. A 777 is hauling around a lot of useless attic space. An A300 has much less wasted space in the attic - therefore not enough headroom for crew rest.

The only planes suited for overhead crew rests are 747 and 777.

[Arbottle]

Thanks, all helpful. I actually rejigged the scene I was writing - a character wants to get down into the hold to a coffin that's being transported back to the UK, but ends up just going loony instead and pulling open doors before being restrained... :ok:

I think it actually turned out better that way... I'm always sceptical of films set in aircraft that have reams of corridors and trapdoors.

I'm sure I saw one where someone went down into a computer in the nose cone?!?

[glhcarl]

I think it actually turned out better that way... I'm always sceptical of films set in aircraft that have reams of corridors and trapdoors.

Several of us that worked on the L-1011 went to see Passenger 57 when it came out. We were amazed at how you can go from the wheel wheel, to the cargo compartment, to the cabin and that by connecting just two wires together you can dump fuel.

By the way there are several access panel in the floors of the L-1011 that lead to the cargo compartments, galley and mid electrical service center. However, if there are LD-3 's in the cargo compartment you would find the space between the top of the container and the bottom of the floor beam to be really tight.

[411A]

Flying along one day, one of the passengers was quite worried about her cat, which was located in the aft cargo compartment.
Poor thing, it was having a fit down there.
I walked back to the aft end of the airplane, and asked the steward to lift the carpet, to access the aft cargo compartment hatch (right hand side, just abeam the third window from the end, and have a look.
The lady had a look, said a few words to the cat, and it then seemed to calm down.
Passenger pleased, cat pleased.
The steward did not know the hatch was there, so he learned someting that day.
Received a nice letter from the lady awhile later...and she said her cat arrived just fine.
Gotta keep the punters happy.

[Notso Fantastic]

How did anyone know the cat was throwing a fit in the cargo hold?

[Farmer 1]

Ages ago, I read a book called "The Control Tower." It was about a Concorde operating between the UK and Miami, home of said Tower. Sorry, can't remember the author, or the publisher - just as well.

On one trip to Miami, he's running desperately short of fuel, so the pilot nips down into the hold and starts jettisoning freight - tons of the stuff. This, of course makes all the difference. After that, it begins to get a little bit far fetched.

It's a hilarious book, for all the wrong reasons, highly recommended.

Arbottle - beware! Good luck.

[chornedsnorkack]

See here how an A340 crew rest looks like from the hold:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Airbus-A340-313X/0437203/L/

[411A]

How did anyone know the cat was throwing a fit in the cargo hold?

The lady owner was sitting just adjacent to the floor hatch, and could hear the cat...a very loud cat.

[411A]

You can't lift a carpet by yourself?

Huh???....this is the job of stewards...not the Commander.
I give the instructions, others follow.
Just the way it is...and always shall remain.

[SNS3Guppy]

I certainly hope you're joking.

[411A]

I certainly hope you're joking.

Nope.
RHIP.