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Capt Wally
10th Jun 2008, 02:23
Jesus everytime I see something like this (see the latest vid on the B2 bomber crash on youtube)I think what the hell is mankind doing? It never ceases to amaze me that even at that high level of so called expertise the boffins are no different to a guy working on his ultralight sewing machine engined airframe!:bored:

I don't think the Ruskies have anything to worry about (or the yanks for that matter their as bad as each other) each side is it's worst own enemy :bored: Doesn't matter who is the biuggest 'bully' in the school ground of life they always trip over their own ego's!
What an utter waste while the world slowly destroys itself & all the world can do is build bigger & more expensive 'sticks' to beet up the schoolyard kids!:bored::bored:

Rant over, for now !


CW

Edited B2 not B1 as I first posted:bored:

Going Boeing
10th Jun 2008, 02:46
Do you mean the B2 crash on takeoff at Anderson AFB in Guam?

Capt Wally
10th Jun 2008, 02:57
Whoops too busy ranting, soz Boeing:bored:


CW

ABX
10th Jun 2008, 03:06
Post the link Wal!

Trojan1981
10th Jun 2008, 03:15
Doesn't matter who is the biuggest 'bully' in the school ground of life they always trip over their own ego's!
What an utter waste while the world slowly destroys itself & all the world can do is build bigger & more expensive 'sticks' to beet up the schoolyard kids!
Agreed, what a waste.

B2 crash:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZCp5h1gK2Q

fender
10th Jun 2008, 04:05
Also agree.

sticks and stones will win the day.

Capt Wally
10th Jun 2008, 04:07
Tnxs 'Trojan' for posting the link directly, I haven't had too much luck in that area.

All that from just some moisture, incredible!:bored:


CW

Howard Hughes
10th Jun 2008, 06:50
Did anyone survive?

Parapunter
10th Jun 2008, 08:05
Anyone skim through the comments on that youtube link? We're stuffed.:{

angels
10th Jun 2008, 09:52
Agree on the comments on YouTube. Makes JB look like a veritable kindergarten!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
10th Jun 2008, 14:42
Jesus everytime I see something like this (see the latest vid on the B2 bomber crash on youtube)I think what the hell is mankind doing? It never ceases to amaze me that even at that high level of so called expertise the boffins are no different to a guy working on his ultralight sewing machine engined airframe!:bored:

I don't think the Ruskies have anything to worry about (or the yanks for that matter their as bad as each other) each side is it's worst own enemy :bored: Doesn't matter who is the biuggest 'bully' in the school ground of life they always trip over their own ego's!
What an utter waste while the world slowly destroys itself & all the world can do is build bigger & more expensive 'sticks' to beet up the schoolyard kids!:bored::bored:

Rant over, for now !


CW

Edited B2 not B1 as I first posted:bored:
you might consider making one or two more edits :}

CityofFlight
10th Jun 2008, 14:49
Must say, the pilots ejected just in time. A couple of seconds later and they wouldn't be around.

Tone
10th Jun 2008, 16:28
Look on the bright side, at least the guy operating the camera was much better at tracking the second aircraft. They should give him a few more to play with (bombers - not cameras).

Ozzy
10th Jun 2008, 16:36
Well this bloke had a better angle but fcuked it up at the point of impact. I am sure he had other things on his mind at that time though.:uhoh::}

Ozzy

Capt Birdseed
10th Jun 2008, 18:37
at that high level of so called expertise the boffins are no different to a guy working on his ultralight Oh dear, looks like the spelling nazis trod on their old fella!!

Muffinman
11th Jun 2008, 00:19
Agree with you Parapunter, I rarely wander down into the comments attached to any of these clips but ventured down in this situation, anticipating some crash analysis,...well... what was that all about?.....

Sorry CW - I'm pre caffeine at the moment - but can you help me out with what your trying to say with your first post?

ABX
11th Jun 2008, 00:35
What was the cause of the crash?

G-CPTN
11th Jun 2008, 01:25
http://www.acc.af.mil/media/archives/story.asp?id=123101589

Overdrive
11th Jun 2008, 20:57
from the report:-


Another substantially contributing factor was the ineffective communication of critical information regarding a suggested technique of turning on pitot heat in order to remove moisture from the PTUs prior to performing an air data calibration.



Is that report speak for the crew forgetting to turn on pitot heat? A check list error?

Spodman
12th Jun 2008, 01:04
...at least the guy operating the camera was much better at tracking the second aircraft... I don't think even the the most distracted of anorak wearers would have been that bad, even filming one handed (REALLY likes aeroplanes). Looks like an automated system to me.

ABX
12th Jun 2008, 02:39
...even filming one handed...

Very funny Spod.:D

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
12th Jun 2008, 03:09
Is that because he was using the other to write down the numbers?



Oh dear, looks like the spelling nazis trod on their old fella!!different from - therefore grammar nazi :8

airfoilmod
12th Jun 2008, 03:13
Calibration is done by the ground crew, in this case, the evening before. For their purposes, the set of PTU Heat is a requirement, but is not included on the Task sheet. This is not a "Preflight Must Check" as I understand it. The aircrew is not culpable for the GI part of the GO in this case.

Airfoil

Brian Abraham
12th Jun 2008, 04:29
Is that report speak for the crew forgetting to turn on pitot heat? A check list error
If you read the report you will find the answer is NO to both questions. The crew, on manning the aircraft, found a discrepancy which required a recalibration of the sensors. That was done, but the ground crew were not aware of the moisture problem that had been found by others, and that pitot heat when carrying out a recalibration would solve the problem, since the information had not been disseminated formally in the tech manuals. Pitot heat was not on any task sheet because it was not a requirement, and not written into any official document. It was knowledge known only to a very few. In recalibrating the sensors without turning on the pitot heat the moisture present caused an error to be introduced.

Overdrive
12th Jun 2008, 10:13
Airfoilmod and Brain, thanks...


...but Brian, as that report reads, it doesn't relay that the calibration process is not also/involving of, a pre-takeoff pilot task. That's what made me wonder, coupled with "suggested".

Brian Abraham
12th Jun 2008, 10:27
Overdrive, not too sure what you are asking there, the pilots had a discepency and that that was cleared by the tech staff. The problem was the tech staff were not is possession of the information necessary to correctly correct the fault. Once the system was recalibrated (to a false point) the pilots were not aware of any discrepency until they got a fault during the take off roll, by which time it was too late to analyse and comprehend, the fault did clear after all, so they thought it all OK.

Overdrive
12th Jun 2008, 11:16
Are we talking of the same report Brian, in Air Combat Command, linked by G-CPTN? I'm saying, I have no knowledge of the air calibration process of a B2, and whether there is a final pre-takeoff input or check/adjustment made by the crew.

Reading said report, doesn't define clearly (for me) if "turning on pitot heat in order to remove moisture from the PTUs prior to performing an air data calibration" is something routinely done by the aircrew prior to flight, similar to programming a flight director for example. Or, something "suggested" on the day to the pilots with regard to current weather conditions, that wasn't carried out. There is no mention of groundcrew or engineers.

Brian Abraham
18th Jun 2008, 06:53
Overdrive, I think all should become clear from a reading of the formal report.
http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080605-054.pdf
http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-080605-058.pdf