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ORAC
9th Jun 2008, 14:50
A speck of stardust......

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/planets-and-stars-perspective-animated.gif

Lydia Dustbin
9th Jun 2008, 15:44
And just to think ORAC 99% of the atoms in our body were made during the big bang!, The rest only a short time after. How small are we??? Nice slide show, have seen it before but thanks!

farsouth
9th Jun 2008, 15:46
Just watched "In the shadow of the moon", a documentary about the Apollo missions. One of the astronauts described holding his thumb up and completely covering the earth and all known life. Makes you feel insignificant (or very significant depending on how you view it....)

Radar66
9th Jun 2008, 16:13
http://corboy.com/solar-system-model/planets022.jpg


http://corboy.com/solar-system-model/planets033.jpg


:uhoh: :)



EDITED TO SAY:

aha - ORAC's slide show has just appeared - sorry about that. :O


:confused: How do you do that? upload a slide show or a powerpoint file onto here?

airship
9th Jun 2008, 16:29
Somewhere (in another galaxy thankfully) was recently heard: "Anyone fancy a game of conkers?" Back came the reply: "I was wondering how long you were going to sulk for this time, are we back on speaking-terms then God?" "Get thee behind me Devil, I go first..."?! :uhoh:

G-CPTN
9th Jun 2008, 16:44
So the Sun is really, really big then?

Like megahuge . . .

That makes Space sort of big, vast even.

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 17:10
The one thing I can't wrap my mind around, is the fact that space is infinite. My mind's eye wants to visualize because everything else we know has some border to it.

Now if anyone says "But space isn't infinite and we know it's shrinking...." then imagine the teeny tiny speck of flatulence that we are in the whole scheme of things! :ooh: Boggles my wee mind.

tony draper
9th Jun 2008, 17:10
If we are obliged to call Ayers Rock Ululu now surely it is fitting we also call Mars Barsoom which is what the natives there calls it.
:)
Think of it another way Mr Flight, that entire Universe and all that in there is, exists purely inside your head,were you to lose said head or break it so it did not work properly anymore, the entire Universe and all that in there is would cease to exist instantly.
:rolleyes:

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 17:41
Ouch, Mr. Draper. That almost made said head, hurt. Then again, there's bliss in knowing much of the world's ills would go away as well.


And I'm Ms. Flight, btw... :O

airship
9th Jun 2008, 18:07
And I'm Ms. Flight, btw... :O That would mean there's even more 'empty' space in the Universe than previously imagined...?! :confused: :E :uhoh: :{ ;) :confused:

Ooooh, hit me there again Juud - Ms. Flight innocently walked into that, it was destined to happen in JB. I'm know I'm guilty, punish me please...oooh, ahhhhh....?! ;)

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 18:11
Yep....sad but true. :{ :ouch:

airship
9th Jun 2008, 18:14
I was only joking Ms. Flight.

PS. And a warm welcome to JB! :)

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 18:14
No problem Airship. It's why I like it here. But if you continue to figure me out, I may have to find another user name. Maybe one that sounds intelligent and worthy of my place in the world. ;)

tony draper
9th Jun 2008, 18:16
Apologies Madam Flight,one suggested long ago that pruners should have a symbol next to their user name denoting their sex,avoids confusion and embarrassment, such as when male pruners find themselves chatting up some hairy arsed chap with the user name of Gladys.
:uhoh:

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 18:21
Ah, but then again, the sex reference could be a real stumbling block for some!:}

My response would be....been a while. Looking for a saddle.

airfoilmod
9th Jun 2008, 18:30
According to Jack, the family Astronomy Professor, the Universe is NOT shrinking. Not only is it expanding, it is accelerating, (Growing faster, faster)

Now that would be enough for me, but along comes the Particle People saying that our infinity is not the only one. There are an infinite number of infinities. Good Night.

Airfoil

Windy Militant
9th Jun 2008, 18:47
Then There's Sir Fred Hoyle's Accordion theory. It's expanding now, but it's soon going start contracting, then expanding, ad infinitum. One wonders what the cosmic music is, probably the Trumpet Hornpipe. ;)

tony draper
9th Jun 2008, 18:55
Actually it is expanding and contraction at the same time, for us it is expanding because our arrow of time shows it thus to us, but to folks living in the alternate universe in next doors super string who's arrow of time is opposite to ours it is contracting.
err I think.:uhoh:
:rolleyes:

Windy Militant
9th Jun 2008, 23:06
Ah ha that definitely fits the Accordion theory then! The top of the bellows is opening whilst the bottom is closing. It also explains curved space. :}

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 23:15
That explains the faint Cosmic Polka I hear occasionally on a quiet night.

Arm out the window
9th Jun 2008, 23:18
Whod've thought the music of the spheres would turn out to be polkas...

CityofFlight
9th Jun 2008, 23:49
Well...it is a time elapsed waltz, with a smaller orchestra.

G-CPTN
10th Jun 2008, 00:34
I agree with CoF about getting your head around infinity (in both distance and time).
What's outside the Universe (and what was there before the Big Bang)?
Simple questions, impossible answers maybe.

I've sometimes tried to imagine the extent of Earth from the point of view of a tiny insect (one imagines ants to possess intelligence, so maybe even smaller critters do too) and then relating that to our perception of our galaxy. Beyond that it gets beyond comprehension (particularly when other dimensions are brought into the picture).

CityofFlight
10th Jun 2008, 00:38
Why, thank you G-CPTN. Was beginning to think I was of a smaller than simple brain.

The basics of such a simple concept are mind bloggling. (back to space--not my brain!)

Jetex Jim
10th Jun 2008, 02:26
What's outside the Universe (and what was there before the Big Bang)?
Why another universe of course, just like this one, except that you didn't ask that question.

And beside that one? Still another and identical to that one but for the fact I didn't bother to reply.

Buster Hyman
10th Jun 2008, 02:42
Pffzzzt! I've seen bigger...:hmm:

It's still Ayers Rock to me Lord Draper. And honestly, who's going to walk into a shop & ask for a Barsoom Bar???:rolleyes:

broadreach
10th Jun 2008, 02:50
I feel like a fleck of cosmic matter just trying to fathom the infinite convolutions of mrs broadreach's thought processes. Perhaps I need a bit more time.

CityofFlight
10th Jun 2008, 02:53
Are you and the Mrs a transplant or Brasilian citizen? If transplant...there may never be an explanation worth waiting for.


(my father; from US. my mother; from Porto Alegre. Therefore my reason to ask.)

pigboat
10th Jun 2008, 03:00
Whod've thought the music of the spheres would turn out to be polkas...

Or a schottische...

Buster, how about a fried Barsoom Bar? :eek:

Buster Hyman
10th Jun 2008, 05:52
Oh, that's different Piggy...I had one of them the other night....gave me heartburn the size of Uranus!


(Aww come on! How long does it take you guys to get a Uranus joke into a space thread?!?!)

CityofFlight
10th Jun 2008, 06:13
Watch it Buster! No making fun of people's body parts!



LOL...I enjoy a good chuckle before nappy time. thanks.

Good night.

ORAC
10th Jun 2008, 06:31
Oh, that's different Piggy...I had one of them the other night....gave me heartburn the size of Uranus! Just hope it doesn't make you suffer from asteroids....

Buster Hyman
10th Jun 2008, 10:14
Them too...about the size of Betelgeuse...or so it felt!:uhoh:

tony draper
10th Jun 2008, 10:19
Actually one of the greatest mysteries in Astronomy is how one pronounces Betelgeuse.
:uhoh:

S'land
10th Jun 2008, 10:22
LOL...I enjoy a good chuckle before nappy time. thanks.


Now that brings to mind an awful vision (in British English a "nappy" is what you cousins call a diaper, another case of two peoples divided by a common language).

Howard Hughes
10th Jun 2008, 10:30
If we are obliged to call Ayers Rock Ululu now surely it is fitting we also call Mars Barsoom which is what the natives there calls it.

Sometimes Drapes you just crack me up!:}
It's still Ayers Rock to me Lord Draper. And honestly, who's going to walk into a shop & ask for a Barsoom Bar???
Only to trumped by Buster!;)

CityofFlight
10th Jun 2008, 14:20
The way the weather was last night, I almost needed a nappy while sleeping! I'm sure some of the thuds on my house where small critters hurling through the air. :eek: (hope not)

sisemen
10th Jun 2008, 15:35
Uluru Mr Drapes. Ululu is what George Formby used to play isn't it??

very old flyer
10th Jun 2008, 15:47
Betelgeuse = bay tell gaze (sort of, without the spaces)

Prior to space flight, I remember reading in various scientific journals (like Popular Mechanics...!) whether clouds would be visible from space! Seems a really stupid question when we see the incredible beauty of the weather patterns from out there.

Argonautical
10th Jun 2008, 15:48
The universe is actually mostly empty space. I read somewhere that all the matter in it (all the stars in all the galaxies etc.) could all fit in a sphere with a diameter of about 4 light years, in other words, from our sun to the nearest star.

G-CPTN
10th Jun 2008, 15:53
I read somewhere that all the matter in it (all the stars in all the galaxies etc.) could all fit in a sphere with a diameter of about 4 light years,Didn't it all originate from a singularity (ie a minute speck of matter/energy)?

Loose rivets
10th Jun 2008, 23:49
One would so like to join in, but i can type about as fast as Dr. Hawking on this NHS screen.

I,ll just say that i think dark matter might be a fundemental part os the structure of spacetime, and therefore there is no need to identify it as matter. just one step further, and you can see how it would unpack itself.

SO who,s the maths wizz that can measure the volume of the sun relative to earth?

Hokulea
11th Jun 2008, 00:04
Volume goes as radius cubed, the sun's radius is approx 110 that of the earth, so that's about 1.3 million earths!

Hokulea
11th Jun 2008, 04:33
So, for anyone interested, I dusted off the calculator and worked out how many earths would fit into the largest known star. VY Canis Majoris is the largest in terms of volume with a radius of approximately 2000 solar radii. That means 8 billion suns could fit in it, or about 10 quadrillion earths. Makes the US national debt look tiny.

On the other hand, Argonautical wrote:

The universe is actually mostly empty space. I read somewhere that all the matter in it (all the stars in all the galaxies etc.) could all fit in a sphere with a diameter of about 4 light years, in other words, from our sun to the nearest star.

I've never heard this before so tried to work it out. The mass of the observable universe is estimated to be about 3x10^52 Kg (that's the stuff tied up in stars). If all the matter were the same density as the earth (which it isn't), then all that matter would only occupy a sphere with a radius of about 1 light year, or only a quarter of the way to the nearest star - and coincidentally to about where the solar system's Oort cloud is supposed to be. If you include all the dark matter as well, the radius is 3 light years, but still not quite as far as the sun's nearest star.

ORAC
11th Jun 2008, 06:23
And looking at the conservation of energy, the total amount of energy in the universe balances out at....zero. (http://www.astrosociety.org/pubs/mercury/31_02/nothing.html)

Jetex Jim
11th Jun 2008, 06:41
So the energy balance is zero, but look at the world

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html

according to that impeccable source the CIA
WORLD... Debt - external: $54.31 trillion note: this figure is the sum total of all countries' external debt, both public and private (2004 est.)
It can't just be rounding error, who is the world in debt to?

I knew this would happen if we left the Gold standard:eek:

Hokulea
11th Jun 2008, 06:56
I can't remember now, but I think something like 2 million Americans claim to have been abducted by aliens, so, interstellar loan sharks?

Arm out the window
11th Jun 2008, 06:58
This big bang stuff is hard to grasp - the whole space-time-matter thing too. I can read about it and think 'fair enough', but for my brain, firmly stuck in the '3 dimensions and time going one way only' mode, it's too much to properly comprehend.
Momentum, energy, all that billiard ball stuff, too easy, but this is way beyond me. Hats off to the people who actually understand the concepts, let alone the maths.

What gets me is this - if there was no universe, no matter, energy or anything, there'd just be nothing. Logical enough?
But what would the nothing look like?
Instinct says it would be infinite, black and empty. It wouldn't have bounds because it'd just be nothing, going on for ever. Maybe instinct is way off, though!
But somehow, some stuff came from somewhere, or maybe it was always there. They say everything was created almost instantaneously in the big bang, and all the things we know - matter, energy, space, time - are all part of that. I can just about grasp that.
Would it be fair to say all these things are somehow related and inter-convertible, and that's how everything can apparently appear and disappear from and to some 'singularity', whatever that may be like?

I think I need a strong drink now!

Hokulea
11th Jun 2008, 08:21
Arm: I would hazard a guess and say 99% of the scientists working in the fields of astronomy, cosmology, particle physics etc., feel exactly as you do!

There are the Einsteins and Hawkings that are the exception to the rule, and probably quite a few others that no one hears about, but even they don't really know. The physics works very well up to the point of where it all came from and it falls down then. It's all speculation from there.

As for the question about there being no universe, then the answer is that it wouldn't look like anything, because nothing would exist. No universe, no observers, no time, no space and no beer. At least that's what we think.

As a kid I remember being told that I shouldn't think about infinity because it'd make me go mad - at that time it was thought the universe was infinite - it still might be. I also remember asking the question "why is there anything?". I think trying to answer that question is more likely to result in brain damage, but it's really the fundamental question.

Now I need a strong drink as well...

Buster Hyman
11th Jun 2008, 14:20
...And lets not forget that about 37.84% of all statistical figures are made up!

airship
11th Jun 2008, 17:50
I wouldn't mind that 37.84% of all statistics were made up. Provided that the lipstick had not been tested on live animals... :ok:

BarbiesBoyfriend
11th Jun 2008, 18:02
I know I ought to feel insignificant but I don't.

But then......















I'm a pilot.:hmm::rolleyes:

G-CPTN
11th Jun 2008, 18:06
So it's beyond our Ken?

CityofFlight
11th Jun 2008, 18:10
Maybe the big BANG is just God with gas? :} :p

pineridge
11th Jun 2008, 18:34
What if our Universe was just a speck of dust wedged in a crack in the leg of a table in the kitchen of a gigantic family in a gigantic house in a gigantic town on a gigantic planet in a gigantic galaxy in a gigantic universe? What if that universe was just a speck of dust wedged in a crack in the leg of a table in the ..................what if?

tony draper
11th Jun 2008, 18:59
I have an agreement wi the Universe,I don't bother it, and it don't bother me.:rolleyes:

Loose rivets
11th Jun 2008, 21:29
ORAC, i remember posting on the story of one of the big-names relating this to someone right in the middle of a road near Princton i think it was. the guy just stood there with his arms outstreached and had to be halled to the footpath.

the sheer importance of this idea is mind-boggling.


some time ago i posted on this, but then followed it with a funny? description on a trip to the edge of spacetime...no doubt most thaught it a daft essay, but it was intended to spell out the concept that we can exist in severely distorted space.

one will return when not typing on a device designeed by an idiot :mad::mad::mad:

CityofFlight
11th Jun 2008, 21:32
How are you doing these days? I've been following you and SAS on the other thread.

Loose rivets
11th Jun 2008, 21:45
okay thanks...Nursie has just put a geiger-counter on me parts, FLIPPIN 'EK, should give the Rivetess a surprise;)

CityofFlight
11th Jun 2008, 22:21
better that than glowing in the dark. :eek: ;)

Seriously...you have people here, that you don't know, rooting for you. :ok: Keep us posted when you can.

G-CPTN
11th Jun 2008, 22:31
What if our Universe was just a speck of dust wedged in a crack in the leg of a table in the kitchen of a gigantic family in a gigantic house in a gigantic town on a gigantic planet in a gigantic galaxy in a gigantic universe? What if that universe was just a speck of dust wedged in a crack in the leg of a table in the ..................what if?Actually, there is no material Universe, it's all just happening in the memory of a cell growing in the gel of a petri dish.
It's all just a figment of an imagination - including PPRuNe and especially JetBlast (and all the characters therein).

CityofFlight
11th Jun 2008, 22:55
THAT--I can wrap my mind around.

(and...between you and me....always thought I was a figment of my parents imagination.)