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ORAC
6th Jun 2008, 23:13
US threatens Britain with legal action over airline taxes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/2085184/US-threatens-Britain-with-legal-action-over-airline-taxes.html) Gordon Brown is embroiled in a major diplomatic row with the United States over controversial plans for new airline taxes which could see British families paying £400 extra for transatlantic flights.

F14
6th Jun 2008, 23:21
Crash Gordon is finished. The US knows this, he surrendered Basra and the Yanks had to come and sort the mess out. They US know he is weak and likes U-turns. Gonna be really interesting to see how this plays out! I think George Dubba is dew here latter this month or the next;lots to talk about!

airfoilmod
6th Jun 2008, 23:34
How is an outrageous increase in the tax on Int'l. Travel a "domestic Policy" as claimed? The Bottom Line here is plain. In a strained market and struggling Economy, your people Want to worsen the Load on ALL of us?To "Support" Environmental Concerns? You Believe that? We don't either. One politician with his diplomatic pouch can steal more than a Brigade with Auto Weapons. (To paraphrase Don Corleone).

Airfoil

SpamCanDriver
7th Jun 2008, 01:03
My god does this government have the slightest clue!:ugh: Oh I know a good idea now that were gonna face increased competition from open skies and the airlines are all struggling, lets make all flights departing from the UK more expensive:D

Not that anyone believes that green taxes are for the environment, but how can they justify making it more attractive to fly non direct will benefit the environment:yuk:

airfoilmod
7th Jun 2008, 01:43
To market, To market, to buy a load of Carbon Credits from Algore. See, it's more important to collect money and get that system up and running before any actual you know, WORK is done to save the Planet. The financial, well, uhh, you know, INFRASTRUCTURE needs to be operational prior to actual allocation of that other stuff, hmmm science, Right?

Airfoil, secretary to Algore, chancellor of the give me some, you won't have so much.

Doors to Automatic
7th Jun 2008, 01:51
All his eniro-carbon crap is a load of b*llocks made up by the ruling guardian-reading elite to justify taxing and controlling us more.

Nothing more; nothing less.

modelcuirstudios
7th Jun 2008, 08:26
The proof is in other countries! Look at europe...they charge less tax and look how good the standard of living is...simple as :)

cwatters
7th Jun 2008, 08:32
Well no. I've lived in Europe and the UK. Taxes are higher in Europe. Vat was 21.5% and the top rate of income tax 60% where we were. Better allowances but not enough to make up. Services were better though. Had free bus service from my village every 30 mins. Similar village in the UK I get one bus a week with the return the following bus week!

Final 3 Greens
7th Jun 2008, 08:35
How is an outrageous increase in the tax on Int'l. Travel a "domestic Policy" as claimed

Because it applies to the UK and the legally elected parliament sanctioned it.

I have little sympathy from Americans crying foul over this, when your country has operated in a unilateral manner, e.g. Camp Delta.

It is a foolish move, but governments are entitled to make foolish decisions.

1DC
7th Jun 2008, 08:40
Ah but make it to sixty and you will be able to go swimming for free..

I wonder what litle gremlin was slipped through yesterday while the journo's were concentrating on the revolutionary contribution to society of free swimming for the over sixties..

Beatriz Fontana
7th Jun 2008, 11:10
The US has to be careful about crying foul following Open Skies (and are the EU nations still fighting with the US over steel imports / exports?).

Whatever, this tax is yet another tax dressed up as a green policy - one of the biggest cons of our time.

Blacksheep
7th Jun 2008, 11:24
New Labour = Old Labour = Tax them until the pips squeak and then double it.

Its the way they were, the way they are and the way they will always be - they just can't help themselves. :(

Flap 5
7th Jun 2008, 11:36
Interesting programme on money wasted on carbon trading on radio 4:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/pip/wyogw/

It would seem many companies in India are using it just to get extra profit.

ATNotts
7th Jun 2008, 11:49
Am I missing something here?

The plan is to cease the APD on each ticket bought, and replace it with a tax per flight. Therefore penalising those carriers that fly half empty aircarft, to a greater extent than those that fly full.

So, Mum and dad and the two brats flying to Florida packed into a TUI charter with be impacted less than someone on a half full flight to, for example Baku.

I can't see the US airlines problem. It might just result in capacity reductions, to increase load factors, and also, as a bi-product, stem some of their losses - whilst yes, helping the environment.

ORAC
7th Jun 2008, 11:57
can't see the US airlines problem. It might just result in capacity reductions, to increase load factors, and also, as a bi-product, stem some of their losses - whilst yes, helping the environment. First off, it's the US government complaining, not the carriers. Secondly, in answer to your remarks above, read the article....

....The letter states: "The Treasury's proposal, although cast as an environmental measure, appears in reality to constitute nothing more than a device for generating additional revenue from the airline community. There is no linkage between the funds collected from airlines and the mitigation of any environmental impact of airline emissions or any other environmental problem…Moreover, the Treasury's proposal does not demonstrate that the new duty would influence airlines to adjust their fleets or their booking practices to achieve higher load factors…Nor are any data provided to justify the levy based on an assessment of damage from aircraft emissions."

Lydia Dustbin
7th Jun 2008, 12:12
When will people wake up and smell the coffee. The Carbon emissions from aircraft are a fraction of a percentage of all of the other man/animal made emissions. The whole 'save the environment from aircraft' argument is absolutely pants.

Flap 5
7th Jun 2008, 12:44
The government is just adding 'green' taxes as extra taxes on top of all the other complex stealth taxes. They know that it is easier for them to impose such taxes because of the 'green' lobby in this country. They are already getting considerably more from fuel duty and the VAT on that because of the increase in the price of oil. Where is all this extra tax income going too?

MP's are already trying to pay themselves more because the economic climate they have created, and regulate themselves, is becoming too expensive. They are already paying themselves more by claiming things on expenses they are not entitled to.

pineridge
7th Jun 2008, 13:47
Final three greens said.........


"governments are entitled to make foolish decisions."


Where did you hear that?

747-436
7th Jun 2008, 13:55
So if the tax is cheaper for flights to Europe then people could go via Paris or somewhere to the US and pay less tax!! But more pollution!

MarkD
7th Jun 2008, 14:04
The plan is to cease the APD on each ticket bought, and replace it with a tax per flight.

I imagine one reason the airlines would be irked at that would be that it would be much harder to justify APD being a separate charge on tickets and not simply rolled into the fare, since it's not possible to calculate a per-seat charge on a per-flight tax when you don't know loads at time of ticketing...

Two's in
7th Jun 2008, 16:10
"governments are entitled to make foolish decisions."

Surely that's only true if you get the chance to vote them in or out once in a while, something that the dour Jock twot has cleverly removed from the options available to English taxpayers.

WHBM
7th Jun 2008, 16:44
Look at all the Treasury time and effort that went into proposals to change the APD rules about double duty for cabin classes "other than the lowest", when Maxjet/Eos/Silver came along and said their whole aircraft was their lowest class. By the time the Neddies in Whitehall had done 1,001 meetings on the topic those carriers had gone away.

Regarding huge but bogus green taxes being constantly suggested, I can only conclude that the nutters in the Green Party have somehow got compromising photographs of Gordo and the rest of his cabinet, to be sent to the News Of The World if he doesn't impose another green tax each week.

Two's in
7th Jun 2008, 18:51
I can only conclude that the nutters in the Green Party have somehow got compromising photographs of Gordo and the rest of his cabinet, to be sent to the News Of The World if he doesn't impose another green tax each week.

Not at all. The Communist Proletariat at Millbank House are working flat out to be the party "of the people" while all the time the Treasury are bleeding the Taxpayer dry. Not the welfare scroungers, not the asylum seekers, not the newly Honored party donors, not the Government ministers - just the Taxpayers. In order to maintain this facade of fairness, they have to dress up all the new tariffs in every conceivable way to stop it looking like a tax.

And then along came the Greens.

Tax 4x4's, tax Flights, tax Cow farts etc, etc.

Suddenly usury is no longer illegal - it's being demanded by the proles! The very same saps that are being bled dry are now "responsible" for demanding more taxes to prevent wasteful usage of our scarce resources and excessive pollution of the atmosphere. It's fantastic - "The Greens made us do it" is now the cry from every robbing bastard in Brown's circus.


Except of course the additional taxes collected are being used not to save the planet (quite how you do that is unclear at this time) but instead to pay for bribing more donors, or holding a few more Gin Palace soirées to thank all the grafters and crooks who have kept the Jock mafia in power.

And since when did the taxpayers elect some inbred single-celled amoeba from a stately home to represent their views on Green issues? Having a bath once a week and only Grouse shooting once a year may make you Green, but it doesn't make you a spokesman for the country.

So no WHBM, no photos of Gordo handing out peerships for money required in this case, this is a classic Goebbels like campaign to tax people out of sight based on their own demands for more "Green" stewardship by the Government. It won't stand up to any scrutiny when they discover what the Jock Knacker did with all the money, but it's a great scam - could even outrun Timeshares in Portugal.

beamer
7th Jun 2008, 19:13
All a load of 'green' balls really. Until China, India, Russia and the USA start taking climate change seriously the efforts of the liberal west are an utter waste of time !

airfoilmod
7th Jun 2008, 19:22
Are you saying that because Countries other than UK "don't take AGW seriously" that you are being scammed? Novel take. The "people" in England are demanding more and better green taxes from their betters in Parliament, so the Earth may be saved, but because other First World countries are clueless and the money is merely stolen, YOU have the High Ground?

Straighten me out here my friend

ZFT
8th Jun 2008, 00:03
The "people" in England are demanding more and better green taxes from their betters in Parliament, so the Earth may be saved,


Who are these 'people' demanding more and better green taxes?

airfoilmod
8th Jun 2008, 01:09
The "Proles"? The Green "Nutters"? "Gordo's Bastards"? "Beamer"? All of those who think AGW is Legit and not some "Ruse du Decade" to filch Poundage from the Taxpayer? Take your Pick. Besides, it doesn't matter up to and including armed Revolt, if you don't refuse to pay, yer are COMPLICIT.

The "Watermelons"? "Orchid Clubs"? "George Bush"?


Airfoil, secretary to Aldgore, Exchequer of the Chancellory of "Give me your Money, You'll Have Less"

Overdrive
8th Jun 2008, 03:40
The "Proles"? The Green "Nutters"? "Gordo's Bastards"? "Beamer"? All of those who think AGW is Legit


Let's get something straight... this actually tiny "group" do not represent the general view of the "people" (ie, population) on the biggest con of all time. Personally, I have yet to meet anyone that believes this crap to be other than control and plunder. The new "industry" of the receding Powers.

ATNotts
8th Jun 2008, 11:26
I think generally the people in UK "want" a greener agenda; but dont want to change their lifestyle, or incur any extra costs to achieve it.

I wouldn't mind betting that is the situation in most of the western world.

airfoilmod
8th Jun 2008, 16:22
"People"- The Quotes show that the statement is from elsewhere, reference all my "Corroboration". I don't for one moment believe that the majority of people in any Western Land believe that sending gobs of Tax Money to unknown recipients will help AGW if it exists (Which it may). Do You? If so, we as a society aren't worth help and are beyond it.

Bottom Line? If you pay close attention, you will note that the information given to the Public re: AGW is coming from flacks, hacks and POLITICIANS. Not Scientists. Each time an actual, credible researcher with a decent reputation and cred in the Field is referenced, I check him out. NEWSFLASH: Very few honest eggheads are convinced one way or the other regarding the Science, let alone POLICY. The policy is coming at all of us via the "News" and "Net", and from oily used car selling types who want your money and couldn't explain Gas Theory except to crack a joke about Grandmum. Get A GRIP.

Airfoil, Secretary to Algore, Chancellor of the Exchequer for "Give us more You won't have so much"

manintheback
9th Jun 2008, 22:15
Gordon Brown PM has recently confirmed again his support for runway 3 at Heathrow to allow for the expansion of the airpot, increased flights and so forth as its good for UK PLC.

Gordon Brown PM last week confirmed the need for increased aviation tax a a green measure to reduce the number of flights

Plot losing the.

You couldnt make it up

West Coast
9th Jun 2008, 22:50
tax Cow farts

That's a load of bull.


Sorry...

Overdrive
10th Jun 2008, 02:08
I don't for one moment believe that the majority of people in any Western Land believe that sending gobs of Tax Money to unknown recipients will help AGW if it exists (Which it may). Do You?


No... that's what I said. I have a great grip, thanks. Eventually though, more people will fall for the hype I fear.

Impress to inflate
10th Jun 2008, 02:45
Gordon Brown, TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX.......

MartinCh
11th Jun 2008, 23:32
And then along came the Greens.

Tax 4x4's, tax Flights, tax Cow farts etc, etc.

You're right. 4x4's are menace. Or the US sized SUVs. That's the most blatant environmental crime on personal level.

Also, cow farts, methane, is serious issue contributing to global warming and greenhouse effect. I'm too tired to contemplate it more thoroughly and would have to refresh my chemistry knowledge.

You guys are worse than me regarding moaning/ranting. Well, that's what's JB forum for, right? Enjoy.