JOBS!!!!!

[CathayBrat]

Boys and girls, I am :mad: fed up with people banging on here about the lack of jobs. " I've just finished OAT or PTC and i'm not getting any replies" Boo Hoo. You have 200hrs ish and are now sending amazonian paper's worth of C.V's out to the top and bottom, CX to ryanair, and hearing nothing. Grow up, u r now playing with big boys. Mods, give me a mo here, my gen had the same problem, but we went and did something about it, we went to AFRICA. The best place to earn and learn. We learnt things JAA would have a kitten about ( Giraffe clearence ), we left some behind, and we miss them, but it made us better pilots, and thats what its all about. So stop your bitc:mad:ing, grow a pair, and EARN your hours. P.s 200ish hrs are worthless.....TRIC:E

[heli_port]

you're post is also worthless and demonstrates your immaturity :ugh::}

[CathayBrat]

Wondeful, a challenge.......
Heli_port..... Bite me, bored

[spinnaker]

CathayBrat

Well, going to Africa, is one solution. Would it look good on a CV. Hmmmm. not convinced. Effort spent on how to break through the barriers to get a much sought after position with a UK or European airline is going to say much more about an individuals strength of character, resourcefulness and will power than bush flying.

There is a bloody good reason why the CAA/JAA would have kittens over some of the things you may have done in Africa and this suggests to me a willingness to take undue risk. Something I would not recommend.

Times are getting more and more difficult, not helped by an unregulated supply of newly qualified pilots, and false promises made by the training sector. The ones who succeed are going to be the ones who think beyond the CV.

[G SXTY]

One tries to avoid posting at 5am, as one may come across as a raving lunatic.

Blood sugar levels and all that. :D

[Finals19]

Agreed that experience counts beyond anything else. It builds decision making skills, and ocassionally teaches you the hard way that there are certain things you should and shouldn't do. No doubt that Africa is a good place to get experience, but obviously not at the price of safety.

I've flown with guys who have learnt "tricks" or said yes to unreasonably risky requests (normally from the CP or Ops manager) and does it make them better pilots? Not in my opinion - all it does is lull them into a false sense of security that they can safely do something which clearly is not safe, and one day that will come back to bite them in the arse.

[M80]

Well, going to Africa, is one solution. Would it look good on a CV. Hmmmm. not convinced. Effort spent on how to break through the barriers to get a much sought after position with a UK or European airline is going to say much more about an individuals strength of character, resourcefulness and will power than bush flying.

There is a bloody good reason why the CAA/JAA would have kittens over some of the things you may have done in Africa and this suggests to me a willingness to take undue risk. Something I would not recommend.

Furthering the common misconception that all flying in Africa is inherently dangerous. Here's an insiders scoop. Flying in Africa can be dangerous if you don't rigidly maintain your own personal standards. It is a challenge. Bush flying has taught me much more about flying than any other phase of my career.

'Giraffe clearance' is not something unusual. It is also wise to have knowledge of the heights kudu and impala can jump from a standing start. A few aircraft doing a low pass to clear a runway have found out the hard way that they can leap quite high.

Please, don't perpetuate the misconception that bush pilots are all 'cowboys'. The cowboys and the unfortunate don't last long in this business. Calculating every possible risk and ensuring that you maintain the highest personal standards are what breeds a good pilot here. Those are transferable skills to any sphere of aviation.


I've flown with guys who have learnt "tricks" or said yes to unreasonably risky requests (normally from the CP or Ops manager) and does it make them better pilots? Not in my opinion - all it does is lull them into a false sense of security that they can safely do something which clearly is not safe, and one day that will come back to bite them in the arse.

Yet part of flying is making the hard calls. We all have to make them. You'll have to make them as an FO, perhaps questioning a commanders decision, or as a pilot in any commercial operation. Part and parcel of being pilot in command. And that's the key to flying in Africa - you fly as pilot in command, and you make the calls. The buck stops with you, and the consequences could be grave. So if you have to stand up and refuse a flight, that's your duty.

It's interesting to note that many Brits who come out here don't get along with not having things prepared and organised for them. Here you are dispatch, refueller, loader, flight planner, customer representative, commander and safety officer all in one.

I'm glad it doesn't suit eveyone - the guys who do come and do it, and get on with it are some of the most interesting people I've met - and usually have previous backgrounds rather than "mum and dad funded me through xxxx integrated course."




So, Bush Flying. Don't dismiss it as cowboys. You'll rarely have to make sure that every decision is the absolutely correct one as you have to here in Africa. And finally, bear in mind that we fly clients into bush strips who pay upwards of 450$ a night. There is a lot of money involved in some of these operations, and a track record of incidents would end any of the exclusive agreements lodges, operators and agents have together. I suggest some of you who've posted her try to have an understanding of a subject before posting about it.

[nich-av]

Africa is a marvelous place to earn your first experience as profrssional pilot. They're recruiting everywhere and they need pilots badly and pay well (it's mostly tax-free).

European airlines love Africa-trained pilots because they have such a broad knowledge and experience.

Important is to keep clear from typical airline operations (B737,etc..) and to stick to bush operations.

[coodem]

While on the bush flying subject. Where is the best place/country for bush flying opportunities. I spent 12 years in South Africa, and did quite a few trips to Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Angola.I had such good times out there, and would love to build my experience out there.

I take it most the flying will be in light singles?

[chrisdick]

I have decided to bite the bullet and head off to Africa to get my hours heading in the right direction. Just one question to those in the know, is August a bad time to go job hunting?

[isi3000]

Well someone had to say it. There are so many threads following the 'we're doomed' track about time someone changed the record :)

[IrishJetdriver]

Go to youtube and ask for "sweethome Arusha".

Best video of flying in Africa I think you'll ever see. Made me realise what flying is all about and wishing I had done some flying there.

Sit back.....turn up the volume and enjoy.

[Artie Fufkin]

Fantastic video.

Rather ironic choice of music considering what happened to poor old Lynyrd Skynyrd.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I detect a troll.

200 hours worthless? That seems like a silly thing to say. It gets you your CPL issued ;).

[cfwake]

I have to say that I find CathayBrat's post rather ignorant and obnoxious. 200 hours pilots are not worthless, as everyone, at some point, has 200 hours, and I must say that if this post has been made by one of the 'big boys' that I shall be working with, it is a rather sorry insight into the industry.

I take exception to the fact that he singles out integrated students (again...sounding like a long-broken record) as if all modular students are completely different. This is not the case and indeed most of the modular students that I know are little different to integrated guys. Perhaps CathayBrat needs to take his own advice and 'grow up'.

Certainly, if the attitude that CathayBrat exhibits is what awaits in Africa, then i'll stay well clear, thank you.

[Zissou]

Sad to see this thread devolve from drunk raving into something serious:(

(cathay brat; give us more pleeease?:}:}:})

[cfwake]

Are you suggesting that it could become more degenerate than drunk raving?! I'm willing to bet he would say the same thing had he not been - and I for one would still have had a go!

From a WAFU too!! My biggest issue is that he's drunk and ends up on PPRuNe! I usually end with a donner or something far more appetising!

[perceval]

The annoying thing as well , is that everytime flying down there is mentionned in the generic forums , it's always 'Africa' as a whole .So many countries with so many different operators and so many different standards ...
Pity really , because I can tell you that flying in Sudan on a crapped out Antonov registered in Swaziland (flag of convenience) bears little or no similarity to being employed by a professionnal sched. or charter company in Kenya , RSA ,Cameroun ....
It's all relative folks even in the 'dark continent'.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

CathyBrat, I must commend you on managing to piss many people off with one single and to be honest irrelevant rant! Has someone done or said some think to you to condone this gibberish? As a low houred pilot I find it very irritating that obnoxious TO***RS like yourself are around in this industry. For some reason I sense sour grapes??? I had the choice to go either integrated or modular, and before this goes down the fricking rout of what’s best I am just answering back to a pointless outcry, one which may to be called pointless but it makes me feel a hell of a lot better! I chose intragrated because (until recently) modular just weren’t getting the jobs that intragrated were getting fact! Sorry but it over a year ago it was true. I do not have anything against modular, as I said I contemplated it very hard. As for having only 200 hrs, I worked dam FU***NG hard for them 200 hours and I am proud of them, for god’s sake you have to start somewhere! Bush flying sounds like the experience of a life time but can’t stop and play got a shiny jet to fly!!

[clear prop!!!]

WoW!! Tommyg737...30hrs on a PA38 on May29th now 200hrs and a jet job.

You have been working f***ing hard.. as you put it.

There can be no doubt now that integrated is the way to go!!;)

[Mungo Man]

tommyg737 said
I chose intragrated because... Well I've heard of modular, and there is integrated, but intragrated is new to me. Is that the new one that takes you from PA28 to 737 in 7 days?!

[wobble2plank]

we went to AFRICA. The best place to earn and learn

Did that back in the late 80's early 90's courteousy of the Queen. It was $hit, to coin a phrase. No ATC to speak of, poor training, no disciplined flight controls, poor maintainence shall we go on?

Yep, you can get away with lots in Africa, lots that the CAA/JAA would nail your balls to the floor with here in Europe but I seriously doubt the experience would get you a job in a revenue generating airlines shiny new aluminum tube.

If you need the money or want to live life on the edge and have some dangerous fun with a good chance of killing yourself and others then go ahead, otherwise I would suggest placing CathayBrat on the ignore list.

God, I hate l33t speak :uhoh:

[MMEMatty]

While i can't comment on flying in Africa, i can say i am sick of (not all) the people coming out of xxx integrated and whinging there are no jobs, when air taxi companies, FTO's, and cargo operators are all crying out for pilots...

It seems if its not a new boeing, they ain't going!

[Finals19]

MMEMatty....er no, I can't agree with you there. Where do you get your information?

FTO's - yes, they are very probably crying out for people. Air Taxi companies? Not from where I am mate. Cargo operators? Nope, can't say I am seeing them kicking people's doors down either. Maybe 12 months ago, but not anymore I am afraid.

[Mungo Man]

When I was instructing I met a guy who flew a Cessna Caravan in Africa. Sure it gave him some useful experience of turbines, but it was a whole load of hassle going out there, it cost him for the type rating too, and he didn't get a huge amount of hours.

He was very surprised at how many hours I was getting in the UK. Another point is, when he came back from Africa to look for jobs he wasn't flying whereas all the time I was instructing I was networking, gaining experience and of course i was available for those last minute interviews that pop out occasionally! I'm not saying its impossible to job hunt in the UK from Africa, but it can't be easy.

[EK4457]

Tommyg737 said:

can’t stop and play got a shiny jet to fly!!

But, it turns out you are off to Phoenix to do your basic flight training in a PA28.

Unless, OAA do their basic training in a 737-800? Would explain their outrageous couse cost.......

EK

[corsair]

LoL, some people get hypersensitive about being insulted for being modular or integrated. Well big fecking deal. :} Get over it. Either way you finish up as a low time pilot scrambling for jobs.

Africa sounds interesting and at one point I would have leapt at it. A friend is considering it but he's young and I'm not so young with a sprog. That puts a different perspective on it. And to be honest, you might, as someone pointed out, be better off Instructing at home where you can network. If that's you motivation.

I think what CathayBrat is really trying to say, in his alcoholically inspired tirade, is to get off you backside and stop whinging. All too often on this forum we have freshly minted 200 hour pilot, modular or integrated, I know not what. Who is sitting at home in his cups, like CathayBrat, bemoaning that fact that despite sending a gazillion CV's to every airline on the planet. No one has even bothered to reply, even with a PFO.

Well that's life. I've concluded there are two kinds of pilot. Those who expect and want to be airline pilots and those who want to fly. (But who end on airliners eventually). The former are more likely to end up back home with the parents barely staying current. The latter are to be found Instructing, in Africa, in the military, dropping skydivers etc. The former live in comfort. The latter live on low pay, getting shot at (Africa) and dodging Giraffes, getting shot at (military), and going up and down all day(skydiving). Probably living in a hovel and existing on minimum money.

Which will be the better pilot at the end of all that? Who knows! But I do know who is having more fun.

I have known pilots turn down job offers in GA. Preferring instead to wait for the big shiny jet job to turn up. Oblivious to the fact that many of the pilots actually getting the jet jobs often got them off the back of contacts they made while flying scruffy old spamcans for peanuts.

Each to his own I suppose.

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Where did i say 30 hrs on a PA 28 in may? Last year maybe! No you are right, im still at oxford! But cathybrat just annoyed me so much, i was speaking hypotheticly ( Not to sure if i can spell!), just wanted to annoy him, i am off to phoenix to get my 200 hrs soon and will most definetly be dam pround of it and would have worked very hard for them! It annoys me as not all integrated are like this and moan, in fact i don't hear of any one! There are many people just getting along with what we have at the moment in the industry, it was our choice to do it this way no one elses and so it is us who must pick up the pieces IF it all goes a bit petetong!!
Safe flying every one!:ok:

[clear prop!!!]

[Where did i say 30 hrs on a PA 28 in may?]

Errrr...Right here, on this very forum May 29 2008 at 16.23hrs to be exact!!:=

[hello, Im currently at oxford doing the intergrated, i have 30 hours on a PA28]

Never mind! ...good luck with the course and keep your story consistent when it comes to CV time:)!!

[PPRuNeUser0165]

LOL, Have you been stalking me!!!! Your right, i wont be lying on my cv, i had to say somethink i was just bloody annoyed! Think you all got my point! Thank you clear prop, goog luck to u too, what ever it is that you do!!!
Safe flying!:ok:

[lazy george]

:}As my Old geography teacher once screamed at me " To be a good lier you need to have a good memory"

[wobble2plank]

Unless you wish to appear on 'The Apprentice'!


:}

[Pace152]

If the sim check is going bad you could always try impressing them with the reverse terradactyl ;)

[Hägar]

Job hunting in August is OK. But, what is a "right time". I believe tomorrow is to late. Go to Africa, and follow the good advise given; remain the professional you have trained to be, and you will come out an experienced pilot. Those who did not come out were the "bolds".

Good luck, from someone who have flown in Africa for 36 years.