Qantas/Jetstar market reductions/exists

[Derek P]

Available on the ASX:

QANTAS ANNOUNCES INTERNATIONAL SCHEDULE CHANGES

SYDNEY, 5 June 2008: The Qantas Group today announced changes to its
international services as it continues to manage the impact of high oil prices.

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the changes, which follow last week’s announcement regarding domestic services, included market exits, capacity cuts and the replacement of Qantas services with Jetstar services on a number of routes.

Mr Dixon said the cost of fuel had changed the way the Qantas Group had to do business over the next two years.

“We have to look closely at each individual market, including the number of frequencies we operate and which of our flying businesses is better suited to serve those destinations.”

Mr Dixon said Japan and South East Asia would be the most affected markets by the schedule changes.

“The Japan-Far North Queensland market has also been particularly difficult for Qantas for a number of years. At current fuel prices, the Group would lose more than $100 million operating to Japan under our existing schedule.”

Mr Dixon said Qantas would engage the tourism industry at seeking better ways of offering viable options for inbound tourism into the future.

Mr Dixon said the changes to the Japan schedule included:
The withdrawal of Qantas’ thrice-weekly Melbourne-Tokyo (Narita) A330 return services from September 2008;

A reduction in Qantas’ Sydney-Tokyo (Narita) A330 return services from nine to seven return services per week from September 2008;

Jetstar’s withdrawal from the Cairns-Osaka-Nagoya route from December 2008;

The replacement of Qantas’ 14 weekly B767 Cairns-Tokyo (Narita) services with a daily Jetstar non-stop A330 two-class service from December 2008; and

The introduction of new Gold Coast-Tokyo (Narita) services five times per week, operated by Jetstar with two-class A330s from December 2008, in addition to Jetstar’s daily Sydney-Gold Coast-Osaka services.

Mr Dixon said that under the new schedules, the Qantas Group would continue to offer significant capacity – more than 11,500 seats per week – between Japan and Queensland.

To support the schedule changes, Jetstar would need to free up A330 aircraft and, as a result, would:

Withdraw from its Sydney-Kuala Lumpur operation to make available an A330 aircraft; and

Replace its existing three weekly A330 services that operated between Sydney and Ho Chi Minh City with five A320 return services on the new route of Sydney-Darwin-Ho Chi Minh City from September 2008.

He said Jetstar would also replace Qantas on:

The Perth-Denpasar route, with up to four Jetstar A320 services taking over from Qantas’ B737-800 services from December 2008; and

Perth-Jakarta, with three Jetstar A320 return services per week replacing the existing three Qantas B737-800 services from December 2008.

Mr Dixon said Qantas would close its pilot base in Cairns, with around 40 Cairns-based pilots returning to Sydney or other bases.

“Qantas will maintain its existing cabin crew base in Cairns to service domestic operations, and Jetstar will establish a new base for pilots and cabin crew in Perth from October,” he said.

Mr Dixon said that as a result of the international schedule changes, there would be a small number of job losses in Cairns and Japan. These were in addition to those flagged in last week's announcement, which were expected to be in the low hundreds, and would also be managed initially on a voluntary basis.

He said in addition to the Asian flight changes, Qantas would reduce its B747-400 Sydney-Los Angeles services from 17 to 15 per week, following the commencement of A380 flights on the route at the end of the year.

“Using the larger A380s on a spread of our USA services will enable us to grow Melbourne-Los Angeles capacity and maintain our total current capacity levels from Australia to the USA.”

Mr Dixon said Qantas had done everything possible to mitigate the effects of the schedule changes we have been forced to make.

“We will continue to work with individual markets and look for opportunities as conditions improve to address capacity issues and reinstate services where and when we can.”

[Bankstown]

Qantas will be shutting the Cairns base and handing over Cairns-Narita to Jetstar. Jetstar will be withdrawing from KL and Osaka/Nagoya to give them the jets.
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2008/jun08/3771

[Dale Hardale]

QF mainline seems to have lost the most out of this. JQ will pick up some of the routes and reshuffle/downgrade Vietnam services from A330 to A320, plus starting Perth to Bali A320 services later in the year to replace the QF 737's.

[Muff Hunter]

doesn't look like the JQ flying slowing down at all....

[ANstar]

Muff you are right.

Jetstar actually increase their japanese flying from all this shuffling.

Its Qantas withdrawing bascially 2 x 767's daily and 5 x weekly A330 flights.

[astroboy55]

so the next question....

what happens to all those people who have been issued with upgrades in the next 12 months??? Are they to be shafted? Or is it possible that just maybe allocations knew of this before they issued the slots?
Would be a pretty low act to get peoples hopes up, and then smash them down 1 week later.....

[Mr. Hat]

so if per denpasar and others go to J* what routes will the new perth base 73 pilots do?

Does this mean perhaps a J* perth base and not a QF base?

[WynSock]

Mr Dixon said Qantas would close its pilot base in Cairns, with around 40 Cairns-based pilots returning to Sydney or other bases.Holy Cow! All those guys who took jit-sta positions - because they were in Cairns are going to be a little peeved.

So will they have to move to Sydney?

[QFinsider]

The only yield is your premium passenger..It is the only passenger that returns sufficient margin over your fixed cost. Add to that te fuel cost (of which J* use the same) and you see it don't work.

I was in Japan last week speaking to Senior people in the know who said..."people would rather drive to Narita and fly fullservice than fly J* from Osaka...
So naturally pulling your premium product from a market and replacing it with your so called low cost alternative will only hasten the demise..

FOG you clown

[Pundit]

What is really happening....

Geoff pulls back QF services

Terry Tourism shouts woe is us

Hero Geoff reinstates services

But the only way he can do this is via a low cost model

Tiny little Al, has a 320 on the ground, lots of newly imported Yarpie crew,

Me Geoff, Me Geoff.......

[genex]

QF Insider

With respect.....

If you did study airline economics....or indeed any finance discipline where the allocation of joint fixed costs was covered....then you have forgotten a lot. If you didn't study it....please do so and don't post again on this subject til you do. You are making yourself look a tad foolish and ranting about how you are the only one marching in step on this subject is just vaguely embarrassing.

Just because you don't understand something don't make it untrue. I racked up about 15,000 hr on all sorts of jets and never did quite work out how they fly. But they do.

Just a thought.......

[C441]

It's hardly surprising that Jet* need all those 457 visas if they're going to be expanding that quickly....

Meanwhile QF 330 and 767 crew will be taking assigned annual and long service leave until they have none left.....and then a bit.:ugh::ugh:

[justdrinkit!]

The transformation from Qantas to Jetstar is almost complete....Must be almost time to repaint the Orange Stars with Kangaroos....

QF management must feel lucky they have these excuses ie. fuel, to mask their plan to transfer QF to Jetstar....

[Mr. Hat]

...."blame the pilots....."

"no ive got it!!!! blame the fuel"

[BN APP 125.6]

Something not at all clear from this announcement: Is the JQ A320 Pilot Base remaining in Cairns? When they say QF Pilot Base being closed, do they actually mean those who were with Australian on the B767 and stayed?

Confused. (As usual)

[I'm Driving]

It's the Qantas Base (ie. the Ex Australian guys). But as far as I am aware, the base was always going to close. QF wanted to close it when they shut down Australian, but the QLD Government stepped in as they were concerned about the effect that all the houses going on the market at once would do to the local economy.
So for the guys up there, this is no great shock. However, I'm not up there, so It's only what I've heard.

Haven't got a clue about J*.

[mickey finn]

I would have thought the J* Cairns base will only get bigger. All part of the QF to JQ transformation process.:ugh:

When it's all done - get rid of that hideous orange paint scheme and repaint them all with the red rat again.

This must be very unsettling for the QF mainline guys. I just hope it's not shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

[flyer_18-737]

Dissapointing that JQ has dropped KUL, well there goes that commitment for a base down the drain. Very Exiting news for Toyko services, especially ex OOL.

Lets hope that the new "Stopover" for Vietnam isn't a red-eye service

[Mstr Caution]

So J* A330's:

Pull out of CNS-OSAKA-NAGOYA & SYD-KUL & SYD-HO CHI MINH
& Redeploy on
CNS-TOKYO & OOL-TOKYO & SYD-OOL-OSAKA

And

Redeploy some A320's from the domestic network to:
Ho Chi Minh via DRW (replacing the A330's)
Between PER & DPS &
PER & Jakarta (freeing up QF 737's)

So have I interpretted this correctly?

Softening of the domestic market for J* see's some A320 take up some 737-800 flying to DPS & Jakarta freeing up the 737-800 for redployment back in the premium domestic scene. Meanwhile the 767 is withdrawing from CNS-TOKYO to also add more capacity back to the premium domestic market as well.

While the J* A330 capacity is switched from Ho Chi Minh & KUL to Japan to cover the 767 withdrawn services.

Meanwhile there are 5 less QF A330 services per week to Japan & the aircraft are redployed on domestic flights to PER in readiness of the retirement of the classics.

Are all the aircraft still all flying but just to different places?:8

[Sunfish]

The Far North Queensland tourism industry is far from impressed.

[permFO]

So I take it that it is now official rather than a nebulous "sometime in the future" that the JQ Perth base is about to start.

[Captain.Que]

This commmodity boom,or super cycle,has been characterised by a series of commodity specific bubbles...Zinc,Uranium,copper,nickel and now we have coal,iron ore and oil.
Analysts are predicting that the price of oil will take a dive when it breaks below $US120/barrel.
Its(Aviation Kerosene) already gone from $US172 to $US158 over recent days.
Dixon would be aware of this trend and is using the oil screen to jusify these schedule changes and staff cuts.
They wont be reinstated when the oil price tanks(No Pun Intended).
In the mean time Jet* eats into mainline.
Give it about 18 months and there will be a whole lot of repainting goin'on and Dixon will have successfully reduced his Labour costs by about 40% company wide.
The share price will still languish around $3.65 and his precious shareholders will still be treated only marginally better than QF customers and staff.
Once capacity increases and the travelling punter has a real choice they will leave Qantas in droves.
Unless of course Dixons successor spends a whole of money on rebuilding the brand.
Where is the new chairman and what is he doing ?

[Cravenmorehead]

I think it is all about economics.
The strength of the Aussie dollar (driven by mostly mineral prices and our higher interest rates) is making it unattractive for the Japanese tourist. That is the real driver behind the drop in passenger numbers; Australia is no longer a cheap destination. Combined this with the rising price of fuel and to some extent labour costs (ie everyone not just pilots; engineers, biscuit and bag chuckers and check in staff) driving up the price of fares, resulting in less of our litle Japanese friends visiting.
The tourism industry will take a hit with job losses for sure. My next question is what routes will go next as the above causes make Australia a less viable destination for overseas visitors? Qantas seem to be drip feeding the announcements, maybe to protect the share price and the confidence in the Airline and tourism industry. Which I feel is a fairly predictable and responsible action.
What next?
My tip a reduction in frequecy in the Cairns Ayers Rock sectors and Cairns Alice Springs sectors, Hamilton Island also may be reduced or perhaps a smaller Dash 8 used. After all they take passengers directly from the international flights that have been axed, and maybe Jet Star placed on the routes. Who knows? I think a bit more belt tightening will occur by Qantas and maybe Jet Star will be the winner as they redefine the Airline.
Anyway watch this space interesting times, I hope eventually the Cairns region will get the services back as it is good for us with interests in the Ski fields in Japan.

[B A Lert]

As sure as night follows day, Qantas is being sacrificed again for Jetstar. Chop and change may be acceptable in a home market but when will some of the "planners" at Qantas realise that this theory may not apply off-shore?

On another note, why do Jetstar imagine that the punters will accept a one-stop operation from Sydney to SaiGon on an A320 when they can go non-stop on shiny 777's with Vietnam Airlines? If they do want to one-stop travel, SIA via Singapore or Cathay via Hong Kong are better alternatives. I wonder when Jetstar will retire from this route?

[Capt Kremin]

I think mstr caution is correct. There are two new domestically configured mainline A330's arriving in the near future and I predict the spare A330 not going to Tokyo will be gainfully employed on the Perth run.

The two new J* Tokyo services are a last ditch stand to hang on to the precious Narita slots until, and if, the the tourist market recovers. If it does then I'd predict mainline would go back in there, if not, then Qantas may ditch the slots and bid all but the QF21/22 service goodbye.

[RYAN TCAD]

I believe GD's exact words were "Qantas will not be 'cannibalised' by Jetstar".

Pffft! what a croc!

[blackguard]

If it was about economics the Japanese would not be going to the states.
Next time you are in HNL have a look at the arrival board....5 flights a day arrive from Japan...full .
America has never been a cheap destination for the Japanese.They can however shop there and.... in the case of HNL.....they can swim there.
Australia has been marketed poorly and Qantas has been sending poor quality equipment up there for years.
Now they send an LCC carrier up there that no one has heard of.
The Japanese market requires a "brand" airline that delivers quality to quality destinations...Australia provides neither

[blow.n.gasket]

Captain.Que: Commodity Bubbles.
The share price will still languish around $3.65 and his precious shareholders will still be treated only marginally better than QF customers and staff.


It will languish until November ,when the next traunch of executive bonus' are due. Guess what their min price is ? That's right $3.64.
Guess we''ll hear all sorts of wonderous releases from QF management just prior to then, in order to get the price up so they can get their grubby mits on their ill gotten gains:ooh:.

Didn't old Rivkin go to jail for less?

I wonder if a look back was done on where the share price was and what the redemption value was for past executive bonus' and one was to correlate with Qantas media releases just prior to these dates would any connection be found?

[concernaviat]

Under the new arrangements, if JQ tickets SYD-CNS-NRT are sold much cheaper than QF tickets SYD-NRT, then the next thing the loads on mainline will drop (as people will put up with a transit stop to save bucks), then SYD-NRT will end-up Deathstar as well.

And the 'new' JQ services SYD-OOL-KIX-OOL-SYD are really just the former triangular SYD-KIX-BNE-SYD flights redirected.

QF have never understood the JP market, and have only survived due to All Nippon AIrways and Ansett pulling out of the market, and the fact that JAL fly their 'JALways' (inferior subsidiary, Thai cabin crewed, HNL pilots and worn-out aircraft) product here a lot rather than mainline JAL.

[Al E. Vator]

Simply add V Australia to the Tokyo run and the demise of the QF brand there is nearly complete.

Unusual management practice from QF.

[QF DRIVE]

It constantly amazes me reading these forums that paint the Japanese as elitist passengers who only can travel in groups on full service carriers to countries that pander to their wishes.

There are 127 million people in Japan with a higher percenage of "younger" age groups. These groups do not conform to the traditional Japanese perception and are quite happy to backpack around the world to countries of their choice and on carriers that offer the best value.

Fly a LCC anywhere and people wil travel on them.

[Firecat]

Do not see Australia as an interesting destination.
The Japanese travel market is highly regulated by the government with minimum fare legislation in place.
If LCCs were so popular in Japan Jet*would be full all the time every time.
They are not and never have been.
The route structure for Japan by Qantas/Jetstar has always been kneejerk and ad hoc.
Why?
They dont understand the market.
Japanese backpackers are typically male and under 25 and constitute less than 1% of travellers .
Their preferred destinations are Europe and the States

[captaintunedog777]

Ok you clowns I could not resist

Are you people really this stupid. Qantas is a business yes a friggin business which needs to survive. It's not there to appease the Queensland tourism industry. It is to provide shareholders with a return on their hard earned cash. Now if that means axing mainline or Jetstar srvices. It has every frickin right too. The price of oil year to date has gone up 100% and now accounts for 30% of their costs. What should they keep useless routes open not providing a return on equity.

The fact they have bought in Jetstar may be the saving grace for the Qantas group. There are airlines folding and fleets being grounded as I speak.

Oh yes GD has no idea on how to run an airline but you clowns do. Stick to your day time job whatever it is. Are pilote really this stupid? I hope not as I fear for the industries future.

[Captain.Que]

Qantas has $3billion in the kitty.
The oil price is on the way down
Qantas has continually disappointed its shareholders with both its dividend and share price.
Executive wealth/remuneration has increased exponentially.
It has been good fortune not good management that has put QF in a position that is a long way from going broke.
The reason QF is in business is to carry paying customers from Point A to Point B...Dixon treats the paying customer abysmally by providing third rate IFE,an aging fleet and a pathetic ontime departure record.
Its about "customers" and they are being treated like ****e.
Without customers there is no Qantas.
The customers generate the cashflow....wake up Geoff or more importantly......
FOGeoff

[Transition Layer]

Captain.Que

The oil price is on the way down

That's what we all thought, but have a look at what happened on Wall St overnight:

Oil soars to new high over $US138

Crude oil surged more than $US10 a barrel to a record as the dollar weakened after the US unemployment rate grew the most in two decades, rising tensions in the Middle East and Morgan Stanley said prices may reach $US150 within a month.

Oil may "spike'' because "Asia is taking an unprecedented share'' of Middle East exports, Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer wrote.

The US dollar weakened against the euro after unemployment rose to 5.5 percent, signaling the Federal Reserve may be reluctant to increase interest rates.

Oil also rose after an Israeli minister said an attack on Iran may be necessary.

Oil is "being used as a hedge by speculative buyers for the weakened dollar,'' said Gary Adams, vice chairman of oil and gas consulting at Deloitte & Touche in Houston. "We are seeing that the price will continue to go up as investors look for alternatives.''

Crude oil for July delivery rose $US10.75, or 8.4%, to settle at $US138.54 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Friday's increase was the biggest gain in US dollar terms ever and the largest on a percentage basis since June 1996. Oil rose $US11.33 to an all-time high $US139.12 a barrel during trading.

Today's rise was bigger than the entire price of oil on December 10, 1998, when crude traded at $US10.72 a barrel. Oil has more than doubled in the past year.

"This is all just a plain old stampede,'' Tim Evans, an energy analyst for Citi Futures Perspective in New York, said. "The sellers have basically pulled their orders so it doesn't take much incremental buying to push prices higher.''

Petrol for July delivery rose 21.35 cents, or 6.4%, to $US3.548 a gallon in New York after reaching a record $US3.565. Regular petrol at the pump fell 0.3 cent to an average $US3.986 a gallon after touching a record Thursday, AAA, the biggest US motoring organisation, said.

Shaul Mofaz, Israel's Transportation Minister and a contender for the post of prime minister, told the Yediot Ahronot daily newspaper that Israel will have to attack Iran if it doesn't abandon its nuclear-development program.

"The Iranian risk premium, which had left the market for some time, is likely to return and hover over the market in the next few weeks,'' said Antoine Halff, head of energy research at Newedge USA. "The knee-jerk reaction to the comments by Mofaz will wear off quickly because Israel would not broadcast its intention in this fashion.''

With Asia taking an "unprecedented'' share of Middle East oil, US benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude oil may reach $US150 a barrel by July 4, Morgan Stanley's Slorer said in his report.

BNP Paribas, France's biggest bank, boosted its 2008 oil outlook by 19% to $US124 on climbing Asian demand for diesel fuel and kerosene. Last month, Goldman Sachs raised its New York crude-oil price forecast for the second half of this year by 32%.

The market "is underpinned by demand, which is totally different than 1973 and 1979'' when supply cuts caused prices to surge, said Ray Carbone, president of Paramount Options in New York. Oil's rise is linked to "supply and demand. Nobody wants to admit it. Too bad.''

[Henry Winkler]

What ever happened to the 4 extra A330's that J* were going to get?

[flyer_18-737]

I have been asking that same question for weeks. They should at least be arriving in the next few months, with new destinations to follow, looks like a no-go:suspect:

Obviously that plan is down the drain for the moment:bored:

[Henry Winkler]

Looks that way.

I recall the news articles relating to this stated that Dixon was going to ask the board to approve 4 more A330's for J*. I guess they said no.

[flyer_18-737]

I think AirAsia X is going to beat JQ to every international market first, securing their customer base with these new A330's they are getting, and they sound pretty good with all the self-ordering options, IFE, leather seats, mood-lighting etc...

[speedbirdhouse]

Maybe but will ANY of the low cost carriers be able to turn a profit chasing the low yield leisure market with fuel at these prices?

[ferris]

Is it just me, or do a lot of people here see a rising oil price as the bogey, when it really is only a minor factor?
In so far as oil affects discretionary spending, then worry, sure. But discretionary spending will have a far greater impact on ticket sales than oil prices. Fuel is a common baseline cost for all carriers (and for all transport, actually). ie it affects all players equally (without going into the minutia of hedging etc.)

In my opinion, raising interest rates and dampening the economy will have a far greater impact on a discretionary-reliant business than whether oil prices cause a ticket price rise. Think about it. If you have money sloshing around in your pocket you are more likely to jump on that plane, regardless of whether the ticket costs $100, or $150. If things are tight, then you arent going even if the ticket price drops to $80.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I see a lot of Orwellian manipulation now that the "terrorists" aren't the bogeymen any more.

[teresa green]

The fact that Far Nth QLD is struggling is no surprise to me. Went out to Green Island with the family to see the coral. What coral? all we saw was dead coral, and a few mullet. When I was a lowly F/O, a trip out there was going to colourful water wonderland, IT IS ALL GONE, but they expect you to pay a motsa to see what used to be. They need to get their act together, if they want the Japanese or anyone else to spend time or money there. After my gripe does anyone know if JQ are basing a A330 at OOL for the run to NRT?

[indamiddle]

fernandez, the boss at airasiax, recently stated on cnbc that they would "struggle" to make a profit at US$200/ barrel. what chance have the rest of the lcc. he is taking a contrarian view and will be continuing to expand while everyone else is contracting capacity. will be interesting to see if 'the oddman out' is right or wrong but nevertheless worthkeeping in mind over the next year or so. dicksons reaction much more predictable.

[max autobrakes]

The whole JetStar experiment is a lie!
Just look at the last financial statements.
Management have had to effectively cook the books to get JetStar to even show a small profit.
Just look at what they valued goodwill at in JetStar compared to Qantas.
I rest my case.:eek:
But as Geoff keeps saying , He'll only deploy the assets to where they will make the greatest returns. (I guess he forgot to add ,returns for whom):hmm:

[Capt Kremin]

Early posts in this thread were saying how it was all good for Jetstar. I guess Jetstar Dom would be looking ok but the fact that Jetstar Intl is pulling out of KL must surely be a cause for concern.

J* Intl was supposed to be the Qantas group white knight on "unprofitable" routes. Why are they pulling out of KL?

The route out of the Gold Coast is a new one and it will be interesting to see how it performs. But with fuel prices now assuming an ever higher percentage of costs, how is a long haul LCC going to make any money?

Jetstar Intl looks like it will stay at 6 A330's till the 787's arrive. When will that be? Six aircraft is neither here nor there as far as market penetration is concerned.

[Muff Hunter]

320 taking over the KL flying out of darwin

[jakethemuss]

Two things,

Firstly Max, Goodwill is (as I am sure you know) a Balance Sheet item and has no "profit" implications as such. The amortisation of Goodwill is about reducing tax. I suspect the profit of Jetstar is actually inflated by the parent entity absorbing costs, not by any other means.

As an aside I heard a JQ Marketer stated that they wanted to get out of Ho Chi Minh but were stuck as they bought into Pacific up there. He also stated that internationally they make money on Bali and Christchurch. That's it. Another Bali bombing and they are stuffed was his opinion.

Secondly, what is the range of the aeroplane that is going to fly DRW-SGN and can it carry a full pax load and 60 mins for TS come monsoon season? Anyone?

[flyer_18-737]

Muff Hunter,

Whoever said KL was now going ahead ex Darwin, how do you know?

I thought it was only SGN?

[max autobrakes]

Goodwill:
An account that can be found in the assets portion of a company's balance sheet. Goodwill can often arise when one company is purchased by another company. In an acquisition, the amount paid for the company over book value usually accounts for the target firm's intangible assets.
Goodwill is seen as an intangible asset on the balance sheet because it is not a physical asset such as buildings and equipment. Goodwill typically reflects the value of intangible assets such as a strong brand name, good customer relations, good employee relations and any patents or proprietary technology.
.
.

.
So we see $20 Million for goodwill in Qantas and $80 Million for goodwill in JetStar
Hmmm something doesn't quite add up.

[jakethemuss]

Max,

Qantas paid $80m over the book value of Impulse when they bought it. Remember book value has nothing to do with price paid or market value. That's where the goodwill figure comes from. Look at Wesfarmers books and the goodwill paid for coles. Blow your mind.

Qantas' goodwill would only be valued when Qantas was sold. The purchasing entity would then have to reflect the price paid in excess of book value as goodwill.

Focus on the distribution of costs if you are going to attack the JQ profit. That is where the bull**** factor lies. Goodwill is a nothing. Just means that according to accountants (and the ATO) Qantas paid more for Impulse than it was worth on their books.

[Shot Nancy]

Secondly, what is the range of the aeroplane that is going to fly DRW-SGN and can it carry a full pax load and 60 mins for TS come monsoon season? Anyone?

Dont know the range but are you talking about the F111 with a few refuels?

[B772]

I am not A320 qualified but I know the following:

DRW-SGN is approx 2000 nms

A320 still air range is approx 3000 nms

A320 EOW approx 43 tonnes
177 adults and bags 17 tonnes
Max ZFW 62.5 tonnes
Fuel capacity 17 tonnes
Max TOW 77 tonnes

Seems ok to me.

[jakethemuss]

Great Circle is about 2300nm. Airways would be a bit longer.

Can anyone categorically answer if JQ's A320's or sole A321 can get to SGN with tempo fuel and a full load from DRW?

[WhoFlungDung]

The 320 can't do DRW-SGN with a full payload AND 60 mins holding.

[alangirvan]

DRW (12°24'53"S 130°52'36"E) SIN (01°21'01"N 103°59'40"E) 295° (NW) 2074 mi
DRW (12°24'53"S 130°52'36"E) SGN (10°49'08"N 106°39'07"E) 312° (NW) 2306 mi

[permFO]

A320 Fmgs Drw-sin = 1803 Nm
Drw-sgn= 2004 Nm

[jet.jackson]

Which one of you two orders the fuel for your aircraft type?
Which one of you two has almost run out of fuel?.
Hope you know the difference between tonnes and tons..and kgs and llbs.
Your ability to calculate distance and therefore fuel requirements diverges somewhat.

[Ex QF]

Just looking at the QF site and noticed that it is now 'up to date' with new schedules.

Jet* to DPS using A320's
but then it has codeshare flights - when you select the icon it states:
'Operated by JETSTAR' but uses B737-8's!

Does that mean that QF tech crew will be used with Jet* cabin crew?
causing more divisions!
Does that mean QF config of aircraft?
Does that mean a new type for Jet*?
Does it mean anything ? other than the fact that the QF web page is incorrect?

[Going Boeing]

Does that mean that QF tech crew will be used with Jet* cabin crew?
causing more divisions!
Does that mean QF config of aircraft?
Does that mean a new type for Jet*?

QF mainline has done a number of flights under a JQ flight number/callsign. They have been wet leases (ie both Tech & Cabin crew) and the inflight service has been full mainline service. It's been a great windfall for the pax who have paid Jetstar fares. Everyone knows that JQ do not pay mainline for the extras.

JQ cabin crew are not trained on B737's.

[Dale Hardale]

As far as I am aware, these flights will be operated by Jetstar A320's.

Maybe the QF site is not yet fully updated regarding aircraft types.

[Muff Hunter]

definately a320,

jetstar perth base opening in october....

jetstar flying both perth-denpasar and perth-jakarta...

what does this mean for the qf perth base as these are both qf 737 flights...?? (stand to be corrected)

[B A Lert]

'Operated by JETSTAR' but uses B737-8's!

Just another ****-up by the types who put info into the Reservations Systems. :8

Such a simple matter to get right!

[flyer_18-737]

Give them time, there always so slow when updating their sites (ie- JQ and QF). JQ sometime still have the same expired sale banner on their homepage, 2days later!

[cokecropduster]

Geoff Star (JQ) is now opening a base in PER. Interesting thing is that the desirable language skill is Japanese. There goes PER-NRT's....

[max autobrakes]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
There are things called slots in NRT.
I'd have a look at the fine print relating to the transmission of those slots!:ok:
Looks like the AnusClowns may have felched again!

[B A Lert]

Slots are applied at nearly all airports; their interchange between QF and Jet* does not a appear to have been an issue at any airport, in Australia or elsewhere!

[QFinsider]

The slots are not transferrable

Under the bilateral there must be replacement of like with like...
It is the same the world over.

Sorry J* despite what Geoff wants, you are not of the same ilk....

A gross miscalculation, just like J* Asia, his desire to fly to Taipei, not supported by China. Thus the Chinese market off limits.... and that is why Mr. Clifford is asking the question Madge wouldn't.

[genex]

QFInsider,

One has searched in vain for any evidence that you have ever been wrong or failed to know more than everyone else. Pretty impressive. One does then wonder why Geoff doesn't use your wisdom to triple QF profits and make himself even richer? Bit of a puzzle isn't it.

I suspect you're not a pilot and am thankful for that. "I know all" attitudes are not the foundation stones upon which safe flying is built.

Anyway, good luck wherever you work.

[division1]

max autobrakes
Looks like the AnusClowns may have felched again!

QE management have been very disrespectfull and cast adrift
JAL and the long honoured agreements for maintenance.
As if the decision to give the 330's contract to EVA and get rid
of the QF lames and JALNAM in NRT was not enough.
There have been some JAL bigwigs in town lately,
and they are not looking very happy.
It will come back to bite QF on the @$$ soon enough.
:ugh:

[HF3000]

Muff: " what does this mean for the qf perth base as these are both qf 737 flights...?? (stand to be corrected)"

It means the QF PER base won't be flying those services. They are infrequent anyway (two or three per week). These services have always been on the chopping board for the B737 (as was DRW-DPS)

Meanwhile the WA domestic flying (which is high yield mining business, and consists of customers who will not fly LCCs...) continues to expand exponentially and they need all the B737NGs they can get. No competition from LCCs, only Skywest is the threat. Five new QF 737-800s arrived in the last couple of months to expand the market. New WA mining destinations and increased services to existing destinations about to kick off (at the expense of QFLink). That is what the QF PER base will be doing - and quite profitably, I expect.

[Muff Hunter]

HF....thats good news, I wasn't trying to rain on anyones parade...just asking the question.

Seems now that JQ will be doing Per-Sin as well, starting Dec..

Is this also a qf 73 route or a new one for the group??

[SkyScanner]

triple QF profits and make himself even richer

Genex anyone can cut costs to save money and make the bottom line look good. You seem to be attacking Qfinsider for thinking that the premium customers should be looked after as they attract the yield. Cos i'll tell you what, premium pax still fly, downturn or not.. Furthermore, we can only continue to disappoint them for so long given that Cathay and Emirates provide quality service also.

Muff - the 330s normally do Per-Sin. 737 used to go Per - Bali - Sin, but only twice a week.

[flyer_18-737]

You wont be seeing any of JQ's A330 over in Perth guys, all A320, mabye A321 services

[ebt]

No, one would have to wait for the Boeing 787s to see any JQ widebody action from Perth. A320/321s are just the start if all goes according to plan.

[apacau]

Meanwhile the WA domestic flying (which is high yield mining business, and consists of customers who will not fly LCCs...) continues to expand exponentially and they need all the B737NGs they can get. No competition from LCCs, only Skywest is the threat. Five new QF 737-800s arrived in the last couple of months to expand the market. New WA mining destinations and increased services to existing destinations about to kick off (at the expense of QFLink). That is what the QF PER base will be doing - and quite profitably, I expect.

Further to this, given the extra demand and the 73Hs all heading to PER, there has been rumour of the 717s heading back East again and NJS setting up a CBR base for them... Anyone heard more? A 717 would walk all over a beat-up old 737-400 on CBR-SYD and CBR-MEL, not to mention those Dash 8s (esp as more and more pax work out that the E170 is a far nice aircraft from a pax perspective)...

[Normasars]

APACAU,

Everyone I know (in this current fiscal environment especially) vote with their wallets. Does not matter a sh1t what type of a/c services the route.

Anyway, from what I am hearing the EMB180(LOL) is not going all that well. I do stand to be corrected on that.

On a side note, how does a 76 seat jet a/c compete on economics with a 72 seat turboprop on sectors under 90 mins(assuming that they are both full of course). DJ crew paid more $$ and the EMB burning twice the fuel.

A serious question.

[porch monkey]

What's the sector fuel for a dash 400 cb-sy?

[nefarious1]

1400-1600 pounds

[How's it Hanging]

DHC4 burns around 600-700kg between SY and CB.

Reason Qantas have only a few jet services a day to CB is even with full loads B737 makes no money between SY and CB, where a full Dash 8 makes heaps. The jets are only there to keep those that just have to fly business class happy, and position aircraft to do other services out of CB.

Even with lower operating costs, such as Virgin or NJS, I would guess very little profit would be made, even with every flight full.

[aulglarse]

The new PER international runs by Jq will compete with Garuda and their all economy 737-300/800's. Bring it on!

[ditzyboy]

It would appear Garuda operate their 737s (Classic and NG) with a two-class cabin nowadays.

GA Cabin Information - International Network (http://garuda-indonesia.com/index.php?menu=page&pageid=24)

Garuda's schedule into Perth is pretty decent, too. Daily to CGK, twice daily to DPS (three times daily at times).

It is a shame that our national carrier and Jetstar can only compete from a safety perspective. Garuda (in Perth) sure win on the product and schedule front - which, sadly, is all most punters care about.