Nimrod Crew Confirmation

[alfiedsavel]

Hi
Just wondering if someone could point me in the right direction, I have a chap who works for my company who reckons he was a Nimrod pilot! We know he was a radar operator for sure, but he claims he was an A1 instuctor up the sharp end!
How can I find out i.e. through which channels can I go through to find out if he really was what he reckons he was>

Thanks in Advance

Me

[airwaverider]

Standby for incoming!!!

[taxydual]

Alfiedsavel

You have asked an impossible question to answer. Certainly not through this media anyway.

From what you say the guy works with/for you. Ask yourself a few questions.

a. Does he do a good job? If he does, why worry.

b. Refer to question a. above.

I was once in a pub in the Chilterns, I got into a conversation with an older, retired chap who was most interesting to talk to. After a while I asked him what he did in his working life. His response was "Oh, I was in the RAF for a few years", he left it at that.

After he had left the pub, I asked the landlord who the chap was, "Ahh" he said "That was Air Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris, he was in the RAF for a few years."

[Pontius Navigator]

I knew a Herc flt eng; he was a Nimrod pilot. I knew a Nimrod radar operator; he was a nav captain on Shackletons. I knew a Regiment Officer; he was an Air Cdre Nav (at least). A Vulcan Captain; navigator.

There are many who had quite different and apparently contradictory jobs. How would you find out? And as someone said, why would you want to?

PS, just a thought, did he say he was a Nimrod Pilot or a Nimrod Captain? Now it is a common misconception that a captain will be a pilot. A radar operator might have become an AEO who became a captain. Many AEOps indeed became AEOs. He may have been an AEOp radar operator, then AEO, then Captain.

[newt]

Nightmare!!!!

[WASALOADIE]

If you can get hold of a copy of the Air Force list (local library) then you should be able to look up his name and if he was an A1 he will have CFS* after his name. At least that will give you a clue to his instructor category and I would suggest that if he has that then he has no reason to lie and may be pukka.

[airborne_artist]

I'm fairly sure that all officers get mentioned in the London Gazette, probably twice (on commissioning, and on leaving). You can search the London Gazette online here (http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/home.aspx?geotype=London)

[boswell bear]

I like the contradiction:
Anytime someone pops up and ask "should I forget I have hay fever" when appling for the RAF said person gets shot down as being dishonest and not officer material.

Yet several here say leave it be when an ex serviceman is less than honest about his role whilst serving. :rolleyes:

[forget]

Very odd - the question that is.

I have a chap who works for my company who reckons he was a Nimrod pilot!

Either he was or he wasn't. If he wasn't then, one day, he'll shoot himslf down - big time! Until then - he was what he says he was.

[Wader2]

Because Boswell there is a difference between lying on your CV, like Lee McQueen, and at interview and 'shooting a line'.

From Alfie's post there is no suggestion that they were recruiting an A1 instructor and Nimrod pilot.

Just for clarity, the Maritime Force used to categorise its aircrew. C-cat was what you were awarded when you became operational. B-cat was the norm after 12-18 months on the sqn and an examination by the standardisation team. A-cat was walking on water. AFAIK there was no A1 or A2.

Instructional categories on the other hand start at B2 once you have completed the requisite courses progressing to B1 the following year after examination by the denizens of the Central Flying School. The following year you would be re-examined and maintain B1, be relgated to B2 or worse, or achieve A2 status. As an A2 I recall your next check would be some 18 months later. You might then be advanced to A1 and the check interval increased again.

To be an A1 Instructor on Nimrods implies either a qualified instructor certified by the CFS agents or a Qualified Flying Instructor certified again by CFS. In either case, as Wasaloadie says, you would have the post-nominal CFS*. As for the Air Force List, I think only officers would be listed and not SNCO/WO CFS*, but I may be wrong there.

[Yellow Sun]

I have a chap who works for my company who reckons he was a Nimrod pilot!

Pilot = Commissioned = Entry in the "Air Force List"

A1 Qualified Flying Instructor = cfs* after his entry in the list.

Very straightforward

YS

[Mad_Mark]

The guy may well have been a radar op as NCA then applied for a commission as a pilot - there are a few around.

I can't think of any A1 pilot instructors that were ex-NCA but if you PM me the name, alfiedsavel, I will search my memory for you.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[cum grano salis]

Ask him if he'll let you see his log book.(s)..................just out of curiosity of course

[Op_Twenty]

Yep, just ask for his logbook but if he's doing a good job does it really matter? All the best.

[reynoldsno1]

B-cat was the norm after 12-18 months on the sqn
No it wasn't - you had to be assessed as above average. In the late 70's one squadron had 19 Navs - 1 A Cat, 3 B Cats - all the rest were C Cats....

[WASALOADIE]

SNCO's / NCA who achieve A1 appear in the Air Force List. Hence entries are few and far between.

[francophile69]

My Dad was A cat on Shackletons

Erm sorry not sure why I felt the need to share that really..




I'll just get my coat.

[biddedout]

Ask him how many tea bags go into a standard Nimrod tea pot. Then move on to the more ticky ones such as timings for oven chips and pies. If he doesn't know, he must be a pilot.

[Not Long Here]

I seem to recall that we went through a period where Flight Engineers were consistently all above average:confused:

[Ayla]

If we were assessing RAF Aircrew(or any aircrew for that matter) as a whole, then clearly all RAF Air Engineers would be above average!

[moosemaster]

Not everyone from a single trade can be above average, otherwise the "average" goes up, and everyone is average again!!

That's what average is!! A comparison to others around you.

I'll agree that when compared to non-mil, they may be above average though, if that was your intent.

[alfiedsavel]

Gents & Ladies,
Thank you a couple of you are helping me out.
Is it entirly possiable that someone in their early 40s would be put through pilot training and then into the right hand seat of a Nimrod? Then atain A1 within 7 years?

The Air Force list! Does it go back say7-8-10 years would I be able to pick his name out from that long ago?

alfiedsavel

[orca]

For simple chaps like me, can we summarise as follows? Military aircrew are held in such high esteem that people are minded to disbelieve those that claim to be/ have been one of that group.

Further more, one must now scuttle home from work, or the boozer, and unleash all available IT to ascertain how much of what you've just heard is bona and how much is tripe.

What a strange world we live in.

[Pontius Navigator]

Be trained as a pilot in their early 40s. No.

To become an A1 QFI requires him to undergo the course at Central Flying School. They come out as B2.

They would have to do the Nimrod OCU and arrive on the sqn as a B2 QFI. Within 6-9 months they would be checked as a B1 QFI then as earlier the progression to A1 is long and hard but certainly achievable inside 7 years start to finish.

The CFS A1 Instructor Cat is quite different from the Maritime A-Cat.

The sticking point is the age for pilot training of 26 about 28 on graduation. Maybe there are exceptions.

The AFL goes back 90 years. It is a question of whether your library has a copy. There is also a Retired List. As an economy measure they have stopped printing the AFL. I don't know about the war years. The RAF Club certainly has a set althought whether they would look a nam up for you I do not know - DPA and all that :)

[philrigger]

Just post his name!









'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[Mad_Mark]

philrigger, no need to, alfiedsavel has passed the name to me via PM and I can confirm that the guy was indeed Nimrod NCA but never a Nimrod pilot :=

I also concur with the others that disagree with Wader2 - a B Cat was not "the norm after 12-18 months on the sqn", it was a hard-earned upgrade that may have taken several years to gain, if you ever gained at all (which many don't).

MadMark!!! :mad:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Pontius,

Beg to differ. After graduating as a B2 the pilot would do a tour as a QFI before going back to the OCU.

The pilot woould then be classed as C to I before reconfirming the previous Cat at some point in the future.

The one time I know of someone who went through CFS straight to the Sqn was RR on 8 Sqn Shacks when Beery died and they needed a QFI ASAP.

[chris_tivver]

I'm surprised at the many opinions expressed that the OP should not check. If there is a trade or profession that is held in high regard (which I think military pilot is such), then people falsely claiming it can undermine that regard and respect. Especially if they then spout complete tripe and justify it on the basis of "I know because I am/was..."

Therefore it is in your interests to debunk any false claims because it undermines you all.

As a newbie to this forum, my first post is to disagree with the majority on the thread....

I'll get my coat shall I?-

[Yellow Sun]

Beg to differ. After graduating as a B2 the pilot would do a tour as a QFI before going back to the OCU.

The pilot woould then be classed as C to I before reconfirming the previous Cat at some point in the future.

The one time I know of someone who went through CFS straight to the Sqn was RR on 8 Sqn Shacks when Beery died and they needed a QFI ASAP.

At least three Nimrod QFI's were posted straight to the OCU from CFS and in two cases they were sent to CFS with that intention. A further QFI was "recalled" to the OCU whilst still a B2. I am well acquainted with all four of them.

YS
(Former Nimrod QFI)

[The Real Slim Shady]

Thanks Yellow Sun.

Just making the point that it is not the norm: exigencies of the service etc ( aka crisis) ;)

[Shack37]

Well alfiedsavel.............now you know, what do you plan to do with your newfound knowledge? Take him to task in the presence of your colleagues? Drop gentle hints to let him know that you know that he knows that you know etc? Maybe just a little quiet blackmail perhaps?
Good bit of detective work but what does it achieve?

s37

[Not Long Here]

Moosemaster,

It was a fairly tongue-in-cheek remark as very often the one-liner in a Squadron Group Standards Report would contain such a line, much to the puzzlement of every other aircrew category on the Squadron.

[orca]

Is there a graduated scale of previous careers' prestige, upon which is marked a datum; below the datum you accept the chap's word and above which you google him to death to see if he's fibbing?

Do i need to contact the professional bathroom fitters rumour network (Pbfrune) to see if my plumber's the real deal? Should i accept that my neighbour was a teacher once at face value? What if he was just a classroom assistant or something?

When i retire what sort of job should i admit to having done, so as to prevent my colleagues having to investigate me?

[PingDit]

I wonder if the subject of this thread is also contributing to it?:E

[orca]

Minge. What are the chances?

[alfiedsavel]

Ladies & Gents,
I have been told the real deal by two of your fine fold, the answer is this, I will say not a thing to anyone!
I am in a position at work to know what or what not the said person was. Simple as that.
I know that I would not want him or her as a trainer or instructor, or in a position where he can have control over people! In fact he does because he is a Captain in our company!
No I will not oust him I promised one of the people who confirmed the story that I would not do that. I want to, trust me the man or woman has completely lied to me about a number of things including his or her position in the Nimrod fleet his or her conquests and the whole A1 thing which really pisses me off.
His or her cards are marked with me and thats that, I'm just the small guy making sure he or her does not stiff me.

I thank you all very much, I know you are all professionals, I just wish I was half as good as any of you, you are all a credit to your profession.

Cheers and up ya bum

[Charlie Luncher]

He's not welsh is he, I know of one rather dodgy boyo who would fit the bill!:eek:
Charlie sends

[PFMG]

He's not welsh is he, I know of one rather dodgy boyo who would fit the bill!


I think that particular w:mad:er went back to driving trains (if we're thinking of the same boyo)

Still it's fun to guess which star from the past might be telling such porkies.....cumon drop some more hints

[Shadwell the old]

I bet his initials are MS

[circle kay]

Shadwell, M or N?
If the latter, that's a pint :)
Saw that man paying for his own cup of tea amongst all us Self Loading Freight at East Midlands last year, still he must be doing well if he has 4 Gold Braid Rings on his Jacket :ugh: He wasn’t up front on the aircraft I subsequently got on I’m glad to say.

[Radley]

PC would it be

[Shadwell the old]

I dont owe you a pint. I am standing by my MS

[PFMG]

PC would it be


I think we're on the same wavelength Radley :D

Although reading the trail again there is a suggestion that the individual is a Captain therfore now flying as pilot :eek:

Struggling to get the MS clue I'm afraid.

[BOAC]

Nightmare!!!! - he's not STILL at it, is he?Concorde, Red Arrows, Space Shuttle......

[Hasher]

Think I know who you mean, he now works for a Bristol based company...

[forget]

You've blown his cover! :uhoh:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/PIES.jpg

[JimNich]

a widely held belief was that the closer you sat to the Nimrod Bog the easier it was to get a B cat.

Is that so? Well that just explains everything, I spent most of my time in the galley (it was the quick and the hungry on das hundespimmel).

Anyway, Alfiedsavel, don't be squeemish about outing the ........person. Why he needed to lie about having the two winged brevet in the first place is a mystery to me. All the most important, and hard, work (and vomiting) was done down the back (in the galley of course, generally a pilot and nav free zone).

Go on, you know you want to! :E

[Jayand]

To be honest if I was going to make up being a pilot, Nimrod pilot wouldn't be top of the list!!!!

[Evanelpus]

I've just stumbled on this and I can't believe what Alfie has said.

No I will not oust him I promised one of the people who confirmed the story that I would not do that. I want to, trust me the man or woman has completely lied to me about a number of things including his or her position in the Nimrod fleet his or her conquests and the whole A1 thing which really pisses me off.
His or her cards are marked with me and thats that, I'm just the small guy making sure he or her does not stiff me.

Wow, I'll bet you are a real pleasure to be around and have as a work colleague! So what, he's a Bobby Bull$hitter, there are loads around. Nearly all of them are harmless. If he/she has never done anything to you, why would you want to 'mark their card'?

I'd rather work with a bull$hitter than a schemer!

Let's end this thread here, it's becoming pathetic.

[Whenurhappy]

bain (http://www.anzmi.net/bain/bain.html)

Here's a chap who had the cheek to claim all sorts of experience within an air force environment. I have no knowledge of the particular chap that this thread surrounds; suffice to say little lies can lead to big lies...

[EdSett100]

I'm with Shadwell the Old. The guy in mind was a dry man and a private pilot instructor at Kinloss. Its possible that he was a very good GA pilot instructor. He certainly told me he was good; at every opportunity. I would not be surprised if he exaggerated his Nimrod role in the manner suggested.

Whether or not the subject of this thread is the person in my mind, I think the OP should confront the guy, whoever he his, and set the story straight within the company. The subject is in a commercial pilot job telling everyone that he was a military pilot, which he was not. This can have serious ramifications if he was able to get the job based on deceit. I don't doubt he has the necessary paper qualifications to do the job, but what did he tell the company at interview about his experience as a pilot?

"Here's my pilots license and other docs, etc. I flew x,xxx hrs on Nimrods, I am a A1 QFI. Despite my requests for it, the RAF has my log book...blah, blah, blah"

[Not Long Here]

Hey Shadwell,

Lke your thought on MS, Had trouble keeping him at work on many an occasion too busy down the flying club

[J.A.F.O.]

Oh, come on, more clues, squadron, dates, anything like that.

[Vim_Fuego]

Evanelpus said:

'I'd rather work with a bull$hitter than a schemer!'

Really? A schemer may p!ss you off to some extent whilst he or she contrives to improve their own situation at the expense of others or forward themselves without particuarly endearing themselves to their colleagues but a bullsh!tter may kill you by gaining a position above their abilities then trying to fill it.

Are your initials MS?

[chalkie5]

Came across this thread yesterday and was intrigued - had a brainwave today though....

I went through 236 OCU (St Mawgan) in 1987 a certain MS was my 'Dry Screen' - gave us a bit of a hard as well! The kipper fleet is a small world and when I was a lead dry on 206 he was in the Sim and we got on fine... different environment I suppose.

Seems a shame someone who was 'professional' aircrew professes to have been a GD pilot.... :)

Is this the MS mentioned perhaps?

[PFMG]

Does the surname sound like seaweed? :}

[Sideshow Bob]

C'mon JimNich, you spent most of your time down the flying club, you must be able to work out which dry man was always down there.:O

[chalkie5]

:ok: lol .... so is that the person this thread relates to then??

[JimNich]

Sideshow

Certainly I spent my fair share of time at the club (summer only, winter was for skiing), and I know the guy being refered to but I'm not convinced. I can't even remember whether he was actually an instructor or if he just spent a whole load of time there. Anyway, I didn't know him that well but it doesn't fit what I remember of him that he would boast about being something he wasn't.

I of course stand to be corrected. Phew, dry guys eh? ;)

[Shadwell the old]

JimNich

You always struck me as being quite perseptive for an engineer, but I was obviously wrong.

He was/is a very plausible Walt. The way you knew he was being economical with the truth was that his lips were moving!

Remember Jim, stick comes back cows get smaller, stick goes forward cows get bigger (unless you are inverted). Maybe I could pass as a QFI!:O

Regards

Shadwell

[davejb]

Right,
I've watched this thread with interest - the sort of interest all aircrew have, automatically, as a result of waiting for someone to crash and burn in spectacular manner, but I am damned if I can work out the crossword clue!

I went back through the OCU in 89/90 (Kuwait etc made that a VERY long OCU) and was a lead on 206 in the early 90's, I knew the odd flying club guy, and would hazard (as a complete sidetrack) that Shadwell the Old might be an ex AEO Captain, (I recall a memorable briefing, where his Nav described Campbeltown et environs as 'Shadwell's D*ck').... but I still can't figure out who Walt is....somebody PM me, just to satisfy my curiosity...even if I couldn't give a monkey's what he claims he was provided he's not flying my 747 home next month!

Dave

[circle kay]

Shadwell,

You've changed, calling an Eng perseptive, a few other words beginning with P, yes, but perseptive?:eek:

Don’t worry Jim; you are still Das Humderspimal’s saviour.:ok:

[Biggus]

Yeah - but he still hasn't learned how to spell the big words, like.....


perceptive!!!

[buoy15]

Nickname was Honker - after spraying the port beam area just after opening the window for a 'run of 3' - unfortunately I was camera operators mate - Rout Nav was quick though - "Confirm the shutter speed was spew thousand or 2 thousand" - aarh! happy days - until later, when he joined my syndicate in the Sim :8

[circle kay]

Ah the duty spelling Nazi, Shadwell has corrected lots of my attempts at the reading and the writing over the years so he is allowed a few mistakes, besides that’s what F7 button is for. Don’t forget what's important in the Service; punctuation, punctuation, punctuation!:ok:

[davejb]

AH,
THAT MS then.
Thank to all correspondents.
Dave

[Shadwell the old]

Biggus,

I may have problems with big words, but I see on the Afghanistan for years thread you seem to have trouble with the little words (truely vs truly). Your degree clearly didn't help you to learn to sprell. People in glass houses.

The sprell was intentional.

Maybe you should have called yourself Dick

Regards

Shadwell the illiterate bade spellister

[davejb]

I can spell,\this chepe keybod is another matttr.
Dave

[Biggus]

Shadwell,

I can see that retirement hasn't mellowed you........how is life on the rigs?

It was also meant to be tongue in cheek, if you will check all 500 odd of my posts you will see that I am not generally a spelling Nazi, but after all my years of indoctrination in AEO baiting I couldn't resist...... besides, mine was a science degree, and it is a well known fact that scientists can't spell......

[Dave Angel]

Ahh, MS, I had the pleasure :yuk: of sitting next to him during a 201 Sqn Association dinner.
The name the Aussie's give to Kevin Peterson comes to mind - FIGJAM (F*%k I'm Good, Just Ask Me).
It was the longest night of my life and nearly caused me to lose the will to live!:ugh:

DA

[thunderbird7]

I believe the correct spelling is: Das Hundes Pimmel. Long live Cuxhaven. But not for too long :cool:

[buoy15]

Dave - commiserations - nearly quite good
I met his mate, D*cky D*wes, in the Sgts Mess bar after a Finningley airshow and unwittingly spoke to him for a whole 15 minutes
I was awarded a "medal" (sandwich board) by his mates that read "Daily Bad Boy"
Unfortunately, I had to wear it till endex because I couldn't find someone else to talk to him for 15 mins 2 secs or better:O

[PFMG]

Thunderbird7 said,

I believe the correct spelling is: Das Hundes Pimmel. Long live Cuxhaven.

Ah yes, that's what the badges said but as one German gentleman pointed out they actually translated as "the penis of the female dog"

Der Hundes Pimmel was actually the Dogs Kn*B.....or so I'm told.

Anyway is Chas out of the Sauna yet?

[JimNich]

Look, that badge was designed after an awful, awful lot of long island iced teas somewhere around the South Dade area ("Actually no, I didn't like your dancing"). Anyone familiar enough with german grammer to spot the mistake frankly deserves all they get. And anyway, it was going to be 'Les valseuses des chien', but I couldn't fit it on. :p