RAF gives names to aircraft...sometimes?

[denis555]

Talking of names for things...I thought it was RAF policy to name all aircraft it operated regardless of whether they already have a well known 'tag' ( DC3 to Dakota for example). However the BAe 125 and BAe 146 remain mere numbers.

Has this tradition fallen away? If not why not use the USAF's example of recycling old names? "Anson" for the BAe 125 and ... er.... Hastings? for the BAe 146

[Gainesy]

Original DH.125 nav trainer, as opposed to the later and flashy VIP HS.125 was called the Dominie

[denis555]

Of course - the Domine... even more reason for them to transfer the name ( although doesn't that name have teaching connotations that make it apt for a flying classroom? So maybe a variant would be better, say Domino? Dominatrix? ( whoops scrub the last one ):)

[Blacksheep]

The original HS125s operated by 32 Squadron 'A' Flight were civvy aircraft, leased in from Hawker Siddeley, which is perhaps why they weren't named.

On the other hand, the HS748 Series 2A aircraft operated by 'B' flight and VIP flights in overseas commands, being owned by the RAF, were named after the Andover that was loosely based on the HS748 design.

[chiglet]

Lightning, Jaguar, Tornado, Typhoon, Harrier,Merlin, Hawk.
Not to be confused with
An American a/c, a car, a WW11 "prototype", a WW11 fga a/c, a bird, an engine and a generic bird of prey.
watp,iktch

[denis555]

Well I guess there was no such thing as a 'made up' name for an aircraft - or was there? ... er Hawker Audax??? Whats an Audax? ( apart from latterly - a bicycle event of some kind ). Everything else seems to be a derivative of birds, beasts, town names etc....

....anyone know better?

[gbh]

Latin for 'Boldness', I seem to recall from far off schooldays.
(cf audacious)

[Audax]

Yep-Audax=Bold, good name for Pprune!!.:)

[virgo]

Apparently the Audax was an army co-operation variant of the Hart and the modifications included a retractable hook (very much like a carrier arrester-hook) which could be lowered to deliver and receive written messages.

Upon seeing one for the first time and being told it was called an "Audax" a rather grizzled ex-Royal Flying Corps flight-sergeant was heard to say;

"That's not an Audax, that's an 'art wiv an 'ook "

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

denis555 makes a valid point. Conventionally (but who cares about conventon any more!), the VC10s, Tristars and C17 (not even a Manufacturer's Type No) should have been named after a Town or City; but they haven't. Furthermore, the Gnat, Jetstream and Hawk broke the tradition (habit for the more pedantic fish heads) of trainers being named after school/college things. Arguably, Tornado 1/4s should have had "bomber" names not common to the 2/3 fighters. Historically, a Boston (bomber) wasn't that different from a Havoc (fighter) other than weapon fit and role.

[Big Tudor]

Thanks GBZ. I never knew there was any sort of naming tradition with RAF aircraft (but would love to know why a prop a/c was christened Jetstream.
I always thought the naming convention only applied to NATO names for Soviet a/c, i.e. F for fighters, B for Bombers, etc.

[Gainesy]

Merlin is also a bird of prey Chiglet.

Course, aircraft names were always an emotive subject. Who could forget the furore over the Hawker Sprohibited and the English Electric Blanket? Then there was the US controversy over much maligned Convair Belt.

[Fishtailed]

but would love to know why a prop a/c was christened Jetstream.

The prop is driven by a jet engine, isn't it! :ugh:

[treadigraph]

Gainesy, one mustn't forget the Blackburn Arna.

Big Tudor, even if it hadn't been powered by Astazous, Pistonstream doesn't really have quite the same ring to it... (though it does remind me of the shameful behaviour exhibited by a group of us after exiting the Fighting Cocks PH in St Albans once...)

[MAINJAFAD]

denis555 makes a valid point. Conventionally (but who cares about conventon any more!), the VC10s, Tristars and C17 (not even a Manufacturer's Type No) should have been named after a Town or City; but they haven't. Furthermore, the Gnat, Jetstream and Hawk broke the tradition (habit for the more pedantic fish heads) of trainers being named after school/college things. Arguably, Tornado 1/4s should have had "bomber" names not common to the 2/3 fighters. Historically, a Boston (bomber) wasn't that different from a Havoc (fighter) other than weapon fit and role.

For the 1930's airframes, the naming of RAF Aircraft was based on a quite strict criteria (Towns / Cites for Bomber/Transports etc), abet with the odd exception. Of course with the advent of purchases of US aircraft / off the shelf and civil types in mass, the manufactures names tended to get picked i.e Tiger Moth, Liberator, Fortress. I’ve looked into the naming of a piece of kit I worked on once from the files at Kew. The manufacturer put the name forward, MoS (running the development programme) agreed with the manufacturer. The RAF Engineering Authority who was going to be in charge of it wished to be named with the letters SA at the start (Saturn, was the first choice if memory serves), to reflect its mission and HQ Fighter Command (the user) wanted to name it after a Snake!!! In the end, the Defence Minister picked the manufacturer’s name (the kit in question was the Bloodhound SAM).

[chiglet]

Jetstream, A High Alltitude, High Speed wind....
AFAIR, the "original" HP39, was mooted as a USAF/USN medevac a/c, so why not "Jetstream"?

Gainsey, wos using words of one sylabub, sorree:O
watp,iktch

[Gainesy]

Tredders, I'll see your Blackburn Arna and raise you a Gloster Phobia.:p

Jetstream was always known as Wetdream wan't it?

[treadigraph]

Fairey Nough, Gainesy :)

[chiglet]

What county have H.P. and Fairey Aviation got in common?
watp,iktch

[S'land]

Middlesex.

H.P 25 Hendon, Torpedo Bomber, 1924.

Fairey Hendon, Heavy Bomber, 1930.

[Gainesy]

That's a Schnieder Remark Tredders.

Embraer Rabbit.

[Blacksheep]

...plus Westland Rover


...and the Airbus Driver

[Effluent Man]

East Sussex...Fairey Battle

[Heathrow Harry]

Of course the uk named a lot of us aircraft.. Dakota, Mustang, Corsair, Catalina.....

[pax britanica]

Fairey has to be the most unsuitable name for a military aircraft manufacturer whatever name you tag on the end of it. Supermarine and Hawker much more macho

[Heathrow Harry]

Fairey has to be the most unsuitable name for a military aircraft manufacturer whatever name you tag on the end of it. Supermarine and Hawker much more macho

Brillant flyers, attractive, often undetectable, with magical gifts - what's not to like?? ;););)

[DaveReidUK]

Academia is a thread throughout aircraft names in the Royal Air Force. Just a few - Provost, Dominie, Balliol, Proctor, Master, Tutor, Bulldog, and so on.

Ah, that famous academic, Bulldog ... :O

[Innominate]

Ah, that famous academic, Bulldog ...
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_University_Police "The Oxford University Police, or Oxford University Constables were popularly known as Bulldogs". Presumably someone at Beagle was an Oxford graduate and made the connection.

When in 1952 the Air Council was considering names for the RAF's new transport, suggestions received included Bison, Bullock, Bulawayo, Boxcar, Buffalo, Leviathan, Mammoth, Yak and - my favourite - Holdall! They eventually decided to use the Manufacturer's suggestion, and it became the Beverley.

[ian16th]

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_University_Police "The Oxford University Police, or Oxford University Constables were popularly known as Bulldogs". Presumably someone at Beagle was an Oxford graduate and made the connection.

When in 1952 the Air Council was considering names for the RAF's new transport, suggestions received included Bison, Bullock, Bulawayo, Boxcar, Buffalo, Leviathan, Mammoth, Yak and - my favourite - Holdall! They eventually decided to use the Manufacturer's suggestion, and it became the Beverley.
But anyone that flew in it, or worked on it, called something else!:E

[pr00ne]

Originally Posted by pax britanica
Fairey has to be the most unsuitable name for a military aircraft manufacturer whatever name you tag on the end of it. Supermarine and Hawker much more macho



Only if you are a macho dinosaur!! (and have a problem with your own masculinity)

VC10 never had a name.

Someone mentioned (years ago) that the original 32 Sqn HS125 Srs 1's were civilian aircraft leased from Hawker Siddeley and that was why they weren't Dominies. They were an outright purchase, and right throughout their career they, and all the subsequent purchases, were known as 125's.

With so few aircfat going through Boscombe Down these days what is happening to the old mark number sequence? Grob Tutor T1 but not Boeing Globemaster C1?

[Lou Scannon]

There was a story that when a certain R.J.Mitchell was told that the Air Ministry
proposed to call his new design "Spitfire", he remarked:
"That is the sort of silly bloody name they would give it!".

[Genghis the Engineer]

There was a story that when a certain R.J.Mitchell was told that the Air Ministry
proposed to call his new design "Spitfire", he remarked:
"That is the sort of silly bloody name they would give it!".

I believe that was because there had been a previous Supermarine prototype of the same name, which had been a complete dog.

G

[El Bunto]

VC10 never had a name.


I believe Voyager was originally proposed. Not only did it fit with the alliterative pattern but the NASA Voyager project had begun in 1961 so it was a nice harmonisation.

[Mechta]

Originally Posted by El Bunto
Quote:Originally Posted by pr00ne https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/329812-raf-gives-names-aircraft-sometimes-2.html#post10126626)VC10 never had a name.I believe Voyager was originally proposed. Not only did it fit with the alliterative pattern but the NASA Voyager project had begun in 1961 so it was a nice harmonisation.

Maybe someone realised that no one would ever come up wth a better name than the Vickers Funbus?