English Proficiency & Shakespeare's Sonnets

[Captain Stravaigin]

Is there no end to my torment ? My Licence has expired and I (quite reasonably) had to go and get my medical first. But this is not enough,you also have to send your Licence, Medical and precious log book to the Malaysian DCA for them to give you another year's sign off. I got my medical about a month ago and have not been able to fly since.

My licence was refused on the basis of the lack of evidence of my proficiency in English. I know that being Scots and being able to talk intelligible English is not necessarily the same thing - but this is ridiculous.

Apparently I will need to go there in person. And I know what that means. Stand around for hours and then they ask you if you brought a signed affidavit from your 5th form teacher, a copy of Shakespeare's Sonnets (did no one tell you ?), a cheque for RM28.37sen and of course your ID card. Then wait in a Queue and then they ask you to come back tomorrow.
yours (expletive deleted)
Still Grounded

[CAPTAIN WOOBLAH]

The CAA is even worse me china plate.

Aye,

Wooblah.

[bad_attitude]

that's really sad

... atleast my FAA license says "English Proficient" ...

[WIKI44]

I saw a fellow with English proficient written on the back of his FAA license a couple of days ago.
On what basis do they append this statement to your license?
Did you undergo a standardized language proficiency test of any sort?
I think in Australia, the CASA has selected a university and the examination assessment and delivery company (ASL) to work out a testing system. Not sure how it works. I left Australia, just before the rules came into effect. Apparently every initial license issue has to be accompanied by the language proficiency test.
Am currently converting my Australian license into an Indian one and have been told that the DGCA wants to see the IELTS test report in order to issue the license. For those who don't know, IELTS is a standardized English language proficiency test, and is a requirement for issue of Australian study visas.
This arrangement works fine for me. The fellows administering IELTS have their act together, and the whole process isn't too painful. Its much better if they let a private player do the job.

wiki

[varigflier]

The FARs say that in order to get an FAA license you have to be able to "read, speak and understand the English language" therefore everyone who holds an FAA license can pay 2USD and get the "English Proficient" endorsement on it.

[johnfearsome]

These English proficiency endorsement business is a farce. I know some expat Captains in Korean Air with level 6 English awarded by the Korean ICAO agencies missing strings of ATC instructions besides not having any idea about certain clearances!!

[bad_attitude]

hey wiki, i didn't have to give any standardisation test ... they just put it there.

not that i'm complaining! :ok:

[ANJ]

I understand that the English proficiency requirement came into effect on March 5th 2008, although compliance is patchy.

There's a list of test centres on the DCA web site - http://www.dca.gov.my/main.php?Content=articles&ArticleID=56&IID= then download 'aviation english test centre'

Once you have the exam result, then you'll need a DCA form 48-EP and RM 20 to have the proficiency endorsement added to your licence (presumably via another trip to Putrajaya).

Another gotcha is that a PPL renewal needs a letter from the applicant's employer including expected length of employment. Didn't see that one coming...

[mingalababya]

hey wiki, i didn't have to give any standardisation test ... they just put it there.

not that i'm complaining! :ok:

Are you holding an Australian CASA license? CASA will issue level 4 proficiency without testing for those operating internationally but this has to be renewed after 3 years. To get level 6 proficiency, you'll need to sit a test which last 10 minutes and costs $99. :ouch:

[bad_attitude]

that's a negative ming, i got a FAA license ...

[Captain Stravaigin]

ANJ, Thx for the link to the right DCA page. You are right about the letter from my employer I hadn't thought of that one. Might be a small problem for me as I am semi-retired and I left full employment last year............

My UK licence has English Proficiency added already - maybe that will be acceptable rather than the test. I hope so.

[halfscaledelfection]

spent 6 yrs in australia, finished a degree, came back, had to sit for the eng. test only to be given level 5.... go figure

[Captain Stravaigin]

A Happy Ending.

I did try getting evidence of my pass at Higher English from my old school in Scotland, they said they only kept records on students going back 5 years, I said I was talking about 35 years ago !!

I went down to the DCA to meet Mr Williams and the whole episode was done and dusted in about 15 minutes tops. I showed my JAA licence (which has the magic words English Proficiency) and he said that that would do. Although as no Level was mentioned I may have to sit the English Test at my next renewal. So watch this space.

My licence was re-validated with an end of May expiry - so only good for 11 months, this is due to the rather annoying DCA habit of only renewing your licence up to the date of your Medical expiry. My first MY PPL licence was only valid for 2 months and I was told this was a one off and everything would be 12 months in future. Ho Hum.

[kwaiyai]

Its all double standards anyway. I hear some Chinese Airline has to carry an interpretor as the FO dont speak English (I find this hard to believe) yet they are scoring lvl6:( but that is what I hear from over there and Rumours are rumours.

[Captain Stravaigin]

Hmmm......., it seems I was far too relaxed and happy way too early.

My attempt to feign knowledge of the English Language and re-new my Malaysian licence hit two rather unexpected obstacles.

Since I last wrote I was signed off for English Level 6 (Expert) following a JAA check ride. Naively I assumed that that would really cut the mustard with the Malaysian DCA.

Sadly not. I was charged RM20 for a Malaysian English Language Proficiency Certificate LEVEL 4 (valid for 3 years only) !! Incredulous I asked how this could be - given I was good for life in the UK ??

The answer apparently is that I need to sit an exam in Malaysia to prove I am Level 6, as an English Language Proficiency certificate issued in England is insufficient !! Is this really what ICAO intended - that levels of English for any one individual vary depending on what country they happen to be in ?

Worse was to follow. I did get my licence renewed - until the 7th July 2010. Some 7 weeks in total ! By now virtually speechless I enquired how an annually renewable licence could possibly require re-newing in so short a period of time ? Apparently my Visa runs out then so that is also an additional constraint to the Medical. So the sum and substance adds up to something like 7 annual renewals over a period of 4 years now.

I was never that brilliant at maths at school but this sounds a lot like a bi-annual licence to me. Maybe I should be grateful that the Malaysian DCA don't also ask for evidence of English & Mathematics Proficiency certificates every 3 years !!

However, to look on the bright side I do have a new licence and will not have to take an English exam for another 3 years.

Ours is not to reason why.................
:uhoh:

[Inigo Montoya]

The answer apparently is that I need to sit an exam in Malaysia to prove I am Level 6, as an English Language Proficiency certificate issued in England is insufficient !! Is this really what ICAO intended - that levels of English for any one individual vary depending on what country they happen to be in ?

It may not be what ICAO intended, but it is the reality of the "standard".

As for license validity/renewal with the DCA, the following seem to determine the valid period of the license.

1. Home license expiration date (if applicable and on a validation).
2. Medical expiration (Malaysian and home country if on a validation).
3. Visa expiration (really not fun if not on the 1 yr. resident visa).
4. Your case: if a person received anything less than a Level 6.

If these things end up even a month apart, the fees still need to be paid and the process completed again, complete with mailing documents, etc. The turnaround time for processing is normally pretty quick, but it's still quite a pain.

On the bright side, the English tests available in Malaysia aren't too expensive. I'm just happy my primary license doesn't have an expiration date, and more specifically, an IR rating that doesn't expire every year. Going through the process twice and with an ocean of separation would be taxing on the patience, and pocketbook.

Best of luck in a month :ugh: