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Gravox
2nd Jun 2008, 03:29
Over the last few months I have found that many crew members I have been flying with are getting divorced. One chap in particular was telling me a story that rivals any horror film.

So the question is, should I grow some balls and accept what may happen down the line or organise a prenuptial agreement? We both came into this relationship with nothing, and still have nothig now.

What do you include in prenuptials, and what are the limitations of them?

Also do you have to sign the prenup in the country in which you are getting married or does it not matter?

Now I just have to justify it to the Fiance, which will be the hardest part.

Cheers

HomeJames
2nd Jun 2008, 03:44
Braver man than I...

11Fan
2nd Jun 2008, 05:59
Gravox,

Grow em and take the risk. It's going to sour the relationship if you bring it up so you might not need it anyway.

What she will hear you say is this: "I don't think this is going to last so I want to be able to cut my losses".

This is coming from a guy that has been married for 15 years. I don't have one, didn't think I needed one, still don't.

And ask youself this: How many years do you think the marriage is going to last?

If you come up with a number, skip the wedding.

Good luck, either way.

11Fan

luoto
2nd Jun 2008, 06:12
Luckily my good lady agreed with me .)

sisemen
2nd Jun 2008, 06:26
A pre-nup is a cold hearted thing which could well spoil the party. Run with fate but........


....be prepared to fight like buggery to keep what you think might be rightfully yours when the whole thing turns to rat sh*t which, percentage wise, it will.

My ex always put herself across as a rational thinking sweet thing who swore that if anything happened between us then it would be strictly 50/50.

Five years later we finally signed off on 55/45% in her favour. She got to keep most of the good stuff in the house. She kept all her income (where only I had my RAF pension). Her property investment portfolio (yep, she'd acquired a number of extra properties) was not included in the settlement and her sizeable bequest from a dead aunt was not included also. AND she managed to rack up $60,000 of legal bills for me by not having her own solicitor and having to ask mine stupid questions which I paid for.

She thinks she's been hard done to.

However, I am deliriously happy that she is finally out of my life. If I ever clap eyes on her again it won't be too soon.

winglit
2nd Jun 2008, 07:09
Why is divorce so expensive?

Coz it's worth it!

Why don't you just find a woman you don't like and buy her a house!

My ex was a great housekeeper, she kept the house!

I am another victim of AIDS...Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome:ouch:

Whirlygig
2nd Jun 2008, 08:02
Pre-nuptial agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on - ask Heather Mills!!!

As others said, by asking for one, you are saying that you don't think the marriage will last; in which case, it won't!!

Cheers

Whirls

Howard Hughes
2nd Jun 2008, 08:08
A pre-nup is probably useless if you have no testicles...:ooh:

cavortingcheetah
2nd Jun 2008, 09:22
:hmm:

One of one's marriages was in South Africa some time ago, under Roman Dutch Law.
Either one were married in Community of Property or out of it.
In the first case, in the event of a divorce, everything was split 50/50, but the split worked both ways. Most women in business did not want such an arrangement.
This marriage was conducted out of Community of Property. Since one was very poor at the time, the specified items of household goods that the wife was to receive, in the event of a divorce, totaled R1,000. That was about UKL500 then, something like UKL90 now.
Whenever the subject of divorce comes around, the wife is reminded that under our legal contract, such is all to which she is entitled.
This pretty much means that one can do what one wants and divorce when one likes, secure in the knowledge that the wife cannot afford to be too damned irritating.
So, since as far as I know, this form of marriage contract is still undertaken in South Africa, short of paying Lobola for the woman, that's as good a way to go as any.:D

luoto
2nd Jun 2008, 10:19
Pre nups are valid in many jurisdictions. It is just the UK that is backwards.

A pre nup can also protect both parties.

:)

r0dman64
2nd Jun 2008, 10:27
If you thinking ahead already about divorce then maybe you shouldn't get married.:ok:

'Chuffer' Dandridge
2nd Jun 2008, 12:14
Why get married? I've done it once, been shafted by the ex and her solicitors and certainly won't be doing it again, unless i'm about to snuff it and want my partner to get everything.

My current relationship is based on both of us knowing that we are never going to get married, and if we ever split, take away whatever we brought into the relationship.

Marriage is an outdated religious ceremony (really only a huge knees up for the family), and which if and when it goes tits up, costs you big time...

However, one good thing to come out of my marriage was my gorgeous daughter, and the fact that my ex is now once again, a very good friend....

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
2nd Jun 2008, 13:18
Why not jus tget her to sign a blank piece of paper, or copy her signature from another form, or a birthday card or something, then you can build a prenup aroound the sig that'll be as much in your favour as you want :ok:

Beatriz Fontana
2nd Jun 2008, 15:41
People can change so much over the period of a marriage, priorities change, careers can change, so a pre-nup can be completely pointless unless it's more wolly-worded than a Sir Humphrey policy statement. Or written by a solicitor for a whopping fee.

If it all goes wrong, which it did for me, you just have to hold tight and go with the flow at the time. Ignore all the horror stories, get a good solicitor and crack on (don't even think about doing anything yourself unless your best drinking buddy is a divorce lawyer). Oh, and never be bitter, let the other side do that!!

Short answer... Testicles.

fernytickles
2nd Jun 2008, 16:10
Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl "Will you marry me?" The girl
said:"NO!" And the girl lived happily ever after and went shopping,
dancing, camping, drank martinis, always had a clean house, never
had to cook, did whatever the heck she wanted, never argued, didn't
get fat, traveled more, had many lovers, didn't save money, and had
all the hot water to her self. She went to the theater, never watched
sports, never wore uncomfortable lacy lingerie, had
high self esteem, never cried or yelled, felt and looked fabulous in
sweat pants and was pleasant all the time. The End

Brian Abraham
3rd Jun 2008, 04:39
We both came into this relationship with nothing, and still have nothig now
And you'll have a whole heap less if you get divorced. :p
My lawyer tells me prenups have no standing in Oz.

arcniz
3rd Jun 2008, 07:59
If you marry, just go overboard being genuinely nice to her: give her the larger portion of the things she enjoys; listen to her stories and marvel inwardly as you do at the colorful differences in thought and style between men and women; pretend to like the children. Befriend her, as best you can, and keep the friendship active and warm. Don't let sex interfere with your friendship, and vice-versa. Be there for her, trust her, enjoy as best you can your married life.

Should you two eventually come on the shoals of some conflict that leads to a parting of the ways, continue being nice. That way she won't be putting something terminal in your wasabi as she serves you up a ceremonial farewell plate of fugu. Instead she will just sweetly look you in the eye and tell you it's time to decamp, and if you hurry, you may be able to do so with all your hardware and software still attached. That's how friends do it.

kluge
3rd Jun 2008, 10:44
Luv 'em all and marry none.

Best advice ever received from my mum.

My one divorce later - she was right.
Marriage is a recurring revenue stream for the legal profession only.

Besides - they're all sisters when you turn 'em upside down



........on the count of 1......run........

FWOF
3rd Jun 2008, 11:47
It drives me NUTS that women have men by the balls ... a guy I know worked all his life, has a great house, nice cars, good business. His 'pretty' wife did a little bit of hairdressing to supplement her addiction to expensives things! Anyhoo, marriage dies a death and yet SHE gets the house, the car, HUGE payout and custody of the kids and he still has to pay her maintenance to keep her in a lifestyle HE created and paid for. And he's living in a friends one bed flat. Still working his balls off and see's the kids at weekends.

Women, on the WHOLE, are manipulative evil things! Makes me ashamed to be one. And yeah, I know countless women who come across as Laura Ingles in the court and yet are Cruella de Ville at home.

I'm just special :) LMAO!

Juud
3rd Jun 2008, 12:49
Gravox, if as you say, you both come to the wedding with nothing, all wealth you hopefully will accumulate will be the result of a joint effort, possibly on different fronts but joint nonetheless, made by you and your future wife.

What would you put in the pre-nupt? :confused:

********************************

Bex, we all know of cases like that. Mind-boggelingly unfair and tragic for the men involved. It goes against the simplest common sense and should not be legal.

Your follow-up generalisation is IMHO a load of ill informed [email protected]

Have a read of the following, keeping in mind that if you do a bit of research on the subject, you will find a comparable trend towards poverty for both divorced mothers and their children in most developed countries.
Much worse for developing countries.


Divorce exerted greater economic consequences on women than men. Three months after divorce, 45.2 percent of custodial mothers not receiving child support were living below the poverty line, as were 38.0 percent of those receiving child support; non-custodial fathers, in contrast, exhibited poverty rates of 9.5 percent before paying child support and 10.5 percent after making those payments. At 16 to 18 months after divorce, 42.5 percent of custodial mothers not receiving child support lived in poverty, as did 35.4 percent of those receiving child support. In contrast, 10.5 percent of the non-custodial fathers (whether paying child support or not) lived in poverty.




The fact that you consider most women except yourself manipulative and evil says a lot.
About you. :rolleyes:



Source (http://www.familyfacts.org/findingdetail.cfm?finding=3303)

cavortingcheetah
3rd Jun 2008, 13:09
:hmm:

Given the price of diesel these days and the cost of running a tractor in India, it's a much better investment to bung your money in to futures in two toed ungulates than either to buy or to pay off, women. Mind how you go now, the comparison invites by the usual invidious route.:ouch:

FWOF
3rd Jun 2008, 14:12
Juud, as in all walks of life we form our opinions by our own experiences, and mine are that women in divorces have MOSTLY been evil, twisted and award winning liars. SO no it's not [email protected] and it's not ill informed. You are arguing with an opinion based on my personal circumstances.

And as for the sheafs and sheafs of papers written about poor women who end up with custody of kids and on the bread line, they are rarely countered with the millions of fathers kept from their kids by said women. Having had experience from the most manipulative and evil of women in the form of my fiances ex-wife, I have seen first hand the little support available to Dads, the way the system ALWAYS comes down on the side of the Mother and more importantly the grief the kids go through.

So no, my comment is not ill informed, and I made no general sweeping inclusion of ALL women.

What it says about me is that my outburst was based on my own experiences in life, nothing more. Make of that what you will.

Forkandles
3rd Jun 2008, 14:19
Juud & FWOF,

Topless wrestling seems the way to go to sort this one out. I've got the paddling pool if one of you brings the custard? Yee-haa!

FWOF
3rd Jun 2008, 14:29
Now THAT'S funny!!

Juud
3rd Jun 2008, 15:00
See my first post for what I think about fathers being dealt with unfairly by the courts. I have seen it, and I agree with you that it's wrong.
Just like I said in my first post, so why do you keep arguing the point?

Bex, there are roughly 3,310,484,170 women in the world.
Even if you have a very wide circle of friends and aquaintances, you still know only the tiniest number of women.

Yet from your own experiences you have formed the opinion that women, on the WHOLE, are manipulative evil things!

Any which way you look at it, your statement is a stupid, unfounded generalisation.


Forks, after you. :E

FWOF
3rd Jun 2008, 15:16
Juud, I think you just like to be abusive from the safety of your keyboard AND furthermore you love doing it! Kudos to ya!

And dod you count all those women single handed ... wow!! :D:ok:

Ozzy
3rd Jun 2008, 15:43
Be afraid, be very afraid. Of ever meeting and taking up with this mentally disturbed beach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38X1YMpOjwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u9Uv7uQ3hs

Ozzy

Whirlygig
3rd Jun 2008, 15:48
FWOF, how about you change the circles in which you mix!!!! :ok: :}

I had gone through 40 years of my life and had never met any of these so-called “manipulative” women and believed that all women were decent and fair (like me and my mates!!). However, just in the last few years, I have encountered a few women like this and I couldn’t believe how vindictive and manipulative they were (in fact, in two cases, truly barking mad!!). So yes, they exist but certainly are not the majority of women. I’m not denying your experiences but I’m afraid you’re not the only “special” one out there! :O ;)

I’m not talking about anecdotal evidence but people I have met.

Cheers

Whirls

FWOF
3rd Jun 2008, 16:14
But Whirly I'm the most special person I know ... :E

And no, I'll not change my circle of associates, they are far to entertaining!!

:ok:

KiloDeltaYankee
3rd Jun 2008, 18:24
Does anyone out there actually recommend marrige???

I am pretty much the last unmarried out of my group of friends.
I have a GF....but judging from my friends experiences...its not something I want to change.

Convince me...

FOWF
3rd Jun 2008, 18:43
Oooookay sweetie pie ..... if you're hunny is as spesh as me ..... of course you should marry her doncha know!! :ok:

Radar66
3rd Jun 2008, 18:43
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb122/Radar66/emoticons/hamsterwheel.gif


:rolleyes:

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Generally, IMO, a pre-nup is no bad thing, and I would happily sign one (once it has been 'cleared' by 'my team' of course...)


However, personally I would ask for it to be updated at regular intervals, should any major life changes come into effect, to ensure that BOTH parties are protected to the 'value' that they brought to the team that is marriage. By value, i don't necessarily mean money. For instance, as has been said on here before, it is oft the case that the man is helped in his success by the woman (or partner) providing support of all kinds.


With regards to 'manipulative' traits, I'm afraid that is down to the person's character, NOT their sex.


Nobody EVER knows the full story in a divorce, bar the two divorcers (is that a word?) and to take sides is pretty much always a foolish thing to do, except of course in the few extreme cases. I am presently very closely connected to a family divorce in the making, and have had experience of others (some bad, some not so bad), so feel that i can speak on this.

Whirlygig
3rd Jun 2008, 18:51
divorcers (is that a word?)

Well, one has divorcees so one does not see any reason why one can't have divorcers.

Though I suspect it's applicant and respondent.

Cheers

Whirls

Juud
3rd Jun 2008, 21:21
Juud, I think you just like to be abusive from the safety of your keyboard
Abusive?
I have posted what I think of your arguments.
I have not said a word about you.
Attacking the person rather than the argument, like you are doing, is usually the sign of a paucity of arguments. Then again, that was already pretty obvious, wasn't it?

AND furthermore you love doing it!
10 minutes before you posted that assumption, I wrote this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4156459&postcount=2525).
Which makes you wrong again Bex, how many times in one thread?

FWOF
3rd Jun 2008, 22:04
I stand by my opinion/s and so persoanlly I don't feel I'm wrong at all! Like you, I'm entitled to my own opinion and findings! :ok:

Flying Farmer
3rd Jun 2008, 22:07
Chaps best not to try argue points with the ladies on the board, I knows em first hand and yer on the road to misery :E

Flying Farmer
3rd Jun 2008, 22:10
Is the bad week nough said! :E

Radar66
3rd Jun 2008, 22:49
Juud, I think you just like to be abusive from the safety of your keyboard



Trust me 'Bex' - I've called juud a lot of things, some of them even to her face ;)

Abusive has NEVER been one of the words I would use, nor could I ever see myself using that word or similar in the future to describe her or her actions.

And one thing I can say with the utmost certainty, she has, would and will always say the same thing to your face as she would from the 'safety of her keyboard' - believe me, I do know... :O








sorry juud, i couldn't help myself, i had to! :uhoh:

kluge
4th Jun 2008, 01:11
And the definition of a second marriage.....


A triumph of hope over experience.

CityofFlight
4th Jun 2008, 02:18
Radar66...loved the "Hampster Wheel of Marriage".


BTW...there are decent women out there and I'm one of them. I told my ex I'd give him a 60/40 split (his favor) if he didn't go down the "evil, nasty road". I just didn't have the energy to get in that mindset. Had to remind him of the condition until the ink was dry, but realized money isn't worth it if you loose your quality of life fighting over it.

bugg smasher
4th Jun 2008, 02:53
Why you idiots are getting married in the first place is beyond me; the first marital prerequisite is maturity, and that only comes after sixty years or so.

A marriage is a compromise at best, people change rapidly over the younger years, not to mention the children that happen along the way, inducing all kinds of other changes, mostly in opposite directions. Should you be lucky enough to compromise with someone you actually get along with, count your blessings. In the best of circumstances, you'll not only grow old together, but eventually share a cemetary plot side by side. Peace, finally...

Maybe I'm different, but sometimes I can't stand my wife; I most certainly could not live without her.

Rush2112
4th Jun 2008, 03:47
Divorce rarely brings out the best in people. Is a pre-nup a good idea? Well, it does look as though you are preparing a withdrawal strategy so unless there is some way that you can convice the other party it's a good idea (and it was their idea in the first place LOL) then it's not going to get things off to a good start.

I'm on my second and I was lucky with my divorce, nothing much to divvy up and no kids. On my second we do have a pre-nup of sorts, Mrs R is Indonesian and as foreigners cannot buy land, we had to have one that says in the event that land is bought, it is only in her name and should she die, I can have no claim on it. So the retirement villa in Bali may not be happening after all...

I can see where Bex is coming from as it's always the horror stories about divorces that get reported or talked about: we all know ones in a similar vein to the one she cited. My brother's soon to be ex is heading down the road of utter unreasonableness and if she's not careful will become another story of evil, grasping unreasonable ex-wife.

max1
4th Jun 2008, 04:34
I have seen first hand a few divorces and breakups. They are sad.
It has been most of my experience that the divvying up of property, assets etc tends to start off amicably and that it is usually at the urging of 'friends' that one side starts to reconsider the tentative first agreement and is encouraged to go for more and more, because they deserve it.
This position is encouraged and is reinforced by these 'friends', who seem to enjoy being seen as a voice of reason and fairness, and being a really good 'friend' whilst having no responsibility in the outcome.
Any other friends who would caution reason and fairness are quickly undermined by the 'friend', who apparently only has the emotionally upset pending divorcees best interests at heart.
This tends to lead to highly paid lawyers at ten paces.
It doesn't always happen, but I would say most of the time. In one case,a mate of mine went through this and was advised that the top end of what he would pay would be X but the lawyer was keen for a stoush and thought he could get it down considerably to Y. My mate said he couldn't see the use of playing 'Lawyer Tennis' and said pay X. One upset advocate.
This mate stayed single for years then was in a relationship that ended because he didn't want to get married. Mrs Max 1 said but 'so and so' is a lovely girl . My reply " He probably thought that about his first wife"
Back to the thread, if you are thinking about a pre-nup dont bother getting married. Old Hands say 'if it floats, flys or f*cks, rent don't buy'
P.S. I also have a boat