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tony draper
1st Jun 2008, 17:46
:uhoh:
http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2008/05/random_acts_of_evolution_1.php

handysnaks
1st Jun 2008, 19:45
You need a hobby!;)

arcniz
1st Jun 2008, 19:58
Great post, Tony!

Ta heck with Anthrocentrism!!

BlooMoo
1st Jun 2008, 20:46
...nothing prevents nonfunctional complexity from simply accumulating

...a very good analogy to religion in human society in my view. Sort of like Dawkins' 'meme' theory on social phenomena...

Of course the utterly desperate ID sect will attempt to explain (with a straight face) that 'God' designed everything to fool us into thinking he's imaginary so he can filter out the faithful. I ask you...

If I were to believe in a God (and there is so many to choose from) then I'd personally choose one that didn't expect me to be thick as sh!t before letting me into heaven. Quite a common sales technique though.

arcniz
1st Jun 2008, 20:50
If I were to believe in a God (and there is so many to choose from) then I'd personally choose one that didn't expect me to be thick as sh!t before letting me into heaven. Quite a common sales technique though.

Clearly, God has friends in government.

BlooMoo
1st Jun 2008, 20:58
Clearly. the Government thinks that if it pretends to be 'God' it will have enough friends:}:}:}

ShyTorque
1st Jun 2008, 20:58
Very interesting subject .... :\ :bored: :zzz:

I now have a reverse QWERTY keyboard imprinted on my forehead.

BlooMoo
1st Jun 2008, 21:27
...sign of the devil:=

bugg smasher
1st Jun 2008, 21:51
If you look in the mirror, does your forehead spell 'YTREWQ', or is that reversed too? This could be significant...

BlooMoo
1st Jun 2008, 21:59
If Shytorque were impaled on the front of a truck that was right up your @rse on the M4 then in your rear view mirror you may see a cranium sporting 'QWERTY'. That might be a 'circle of life' kind of moment...

Davaar
1st Jun 2008, 22:27
Goodness me, BlooMoo, ten posts to a thread on religion, and four of them from you!

I qualify as no more than one of Arnold's ("The Scholar-Gipsy," lines 171-180):

"Light half-believers of our casual creeds,
Who never deeply felt, nor clearly willed,
Whose insight never has borne fruit in deeds,
Whose vague resolves never have been fulfilled;
For whom each year we see Breeds
New beginnings, disappointments new,
Who hesitate and falter life away,
And lose tomorrow the ground won to-day-
Ah! do not we, wanderer! await it too?",

but the topic seems as ever-present to you as it was to the departed Old_Cross_Bound, formerly of these pages.

tony draper
1st Jun 2008, 22:39
Of course we of the North have the DNA sequence in our genes that allows our digestive systems to cope with such viands as Black Pudding and Tripe,another little know fact is the SAS test for this sequence and will take no one without it, as they have no wish to have southern jessies in their midst.
:rolleyes:

Windy Militant
1st Jun 2008, 23:06
LINEs seem to be relics of the "copying machinery" of old viral infections wherein a virus would embed a portion of itself into our genome, not enough to propagate the full, infectious virus, but enough to continue copying itself. It is a classic example of a selfish gene: It has no purpose but to do only that, without benefit to us.
A worrying thought that when they finally decipher the very last sequence that has eluded discovery it will say " Microsquash creature V1.1 service pack 2" :\

bugg smasher
1st Jun 2008, 23:36
It is a classic example of a selfish gene: It has no purpose but to do only that, without benefit to us.

Does 'without benefit to us' not classify as a prime example of a 'selfish gene'?

Jetex Jim
1st Jun 2008, 23:51
Dawkins' 'meme' theory on

I think Dawkins already looked at all that redundant machine code in the DNA sequence, and wondered what the creationists made of it.

Before that Darwin had a few similair questions regarding the Appendix. it's function still taxes the Intelligent Design crowd, they have to resort to such as 'possible uses as donor material in reconstructive surgery' -- very Old Testament.

Keef
2nd Jun 2008, 00:28
Has nobody told you blokes what the "apparently unused" bits of human DNA are about?

This has been around for a long time...


The reason why only 30% of human DNA performs any useful function is
that the rest of it is comments.
Once we decode a typical human genome, we see that the contents begin as
follows:

/* HUMAN_DNA.H
*
* Human Genome
* Version 2.1
*
* God
*/
/* Revision history:
*
* 0000-00-01 00:00 1.0 Adam.
* 0000-00-02 10:00 1.1 Eve.
* 0000-00-03 02:11 1.2 Added penis code to male version. A bit messy --
* will require a rewrite later on to make it neater.
* 0017-03-12 03:14 1.3 Added extra sex drive to male.h; took code from
* elephant-dna.c
* 0145-10-03 16:33 1.4 Removed tail.
* 1115-00-31 17:20 1.5 Shortened forearms, expanded brain case.
* 2091-08-20 13:56 1.6 Opposable thumbs added to hand() routine.
* 2501-04-09 14:04 1.7 Minor cosmetic improvements-skin colour made
* darker to match my own image.
* 2909-07-12 02:21 1.8 Dentition inadequate; added extra 'wisdom' teeth.
* Must remember to make mouth bigger to compensate.
* 4501-12-31 14:18 1.9 Increase average height.
* 5533-02-12 17:09 2.0 Added gay option, triggered by high population
* density, to try and slow the overpopulation problem.
* 6004-11-04 16:11 2.1 Made forefinger narrower to fit hole in centre of
* CD.
*/
>
/* Standard definitions
*/
>
#define SEX male
#define HEIGHT 1.84
#define MASS 68
#define RACE caucasian
>
/* Include inherited traits from parent DNA files.
*
* Files must be pre-processed with MENDEL program to provide proper
* inheritance features.
*/
>
#include "mother.h"
#include "father.h"
>
#infndef FATHER
#warn("Father unknown-guessing\n")



... and so on.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
2nd Jun 2008, 01:06
I actually read all the way through that Keef, but I didn't have my glasses ( IF age >= 40 perform reduce_eye_function ) and I read the last bit as

# infidel FATHER


:}

PanPanYourself
2nd Jun 2008, 08:52
infndef is an undeclared identifier, God must have made a typo

Should be ifndef (if not defined)

Otherwise yes, this should compile and run to produce a man.

tony draper
2nd Jun 2008, 09:29
Does not the unborn sprog swimming in his/hers mums tum mirror various evolutionary stages,there is a rather pithy saying with regards this phenomenon,one misremebers it nowbut it goes along the lines of "Something mirrors something or other",ie at various stages sprogs have gills tails horns ect ect,perchance some of this junk DNA takes this opportunity for a outing.
:rolleyes:

BlueWolf
2nd Jun 2008, 09:48
Our human CD contains, in effect, the equivalent of one really good, but short, pop song, with the rest of the tracks being staticky hisses, noise, and repetitions of the same short phrase, over and over again.

...ain't that the truth.
:ugh:

ORAC
2nd Jun 2008, 10:52
there is a rather pithy saying with regards this phenomenon,one misremebers Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, Mr D. But the theory has been disproved. A tampering with the evidence so to speak.....

tony draper
2nd Jun 2008, 11:43
That's the one Mr ORAC one knew it were summat like that.:ok:

BlooMoo
2nd Jun 2008, 16:19
but the topic seems as ever-present to you as it was to the departed Old_Cross_Bound

You know you're really getting on someone's t!ts when they whip out the 'you're as nuts as OCB' line...;)

arcniz
2nd Jun 2008, 21:10
"Something mirrors something or other"

That would be "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny", I believe. Taught that to my daughter many years ago, at age 4 - on the theory that every girl should have at least one stunner to drop in conversation. Did the trick -- by transfixing a preschool teacher or two as the phrase (followed by a modest explanation of the logic) trickled from her young lips.

While the ontogeny thing is not strictly true as thus stated, the phrase does hit the general flavour of the thing. Humanity is made from the scraps and piles found on nature's cutting-room floor as various organisms have melded and morphed along with us in the gene-soup category. We are really built like a vast shopping arcade, with incredible redundancy in many seemingly unimportant things - perhaps just because they come easy - and with many contradictions and a slew of omissions of useful seeming functions that other successful organisms possess.

"You are what you eat" might be more true than one suspects. Searching for ways to transfer genetic matter into cell nuclei some years back, one found something like 23 different practical ways to commingle genes, some as simple as "a hard blow". (and not counting the type containing reference to "Job", or the trials thereof.)



edit - woops, was using an old copy of the universe, full credit to Mr. Orac on that one.



Afterthought:

The better phrase might be: "You become what eats you". Parasites, large and small, have the keys to the castle, and do not necessarily pass through the digestive system, which serves mainly to break down proteins before they become part of you.

Your basic itinerant biological parasite- everyone has some - gets to crawl around inside munching on your bits in categories from the macro scale down to the size of mitochondria and individual molecules inside cell nuclei. Surely their kind are the true hand of God in this troublesome matter of Evolution?

BlooMoo
2nd Jun 2008, 22:05
Minute parasites grubbing around sh!t. Individually, irrelevant. Collectively, a real health problem. Another good analogy.:ok:

ChristiaanJ
2nd Jun 2008, 22:41
6004-11-04 16:11 2.1 Made forefinger narrower to fit hole in centre of CD.
Bug report.... Mine doesn't fit.

tony draper
2nd Jun 2008, 22:48
They should have made the holes in CD's nostril sized.:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
3rd Jun 2008, 02:17
Man gets his finger chopped at work on some machinery.
He calls his wife to tell her.
She asks whether he has lost the whole finger, but he reassures her that it was the one next to it . . .

bugg smasher
3rd Jun 2008, 04:03
This thread is giving me the strongest feeling of 'Vuja Des', the complete certainty I've never, ever been here before...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
3rd Jun 2008, 04:12
6004-11-04 16:11 2.1 Made forefinger narrower to fit hole in centre of CD. Bug report.... Mine doesn't fit.Perhaps, in another 3996 years it will :8

ORAC
3rd Jun 2008, 08:21
New Scientist: Evolutions's Greatest Mistakes (http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/EvolGreatestMistakes-NewSci%20081107.pdf)