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EpsilonVaz
31st May 2008, 17:52
From BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7428920.stm


Thousands join Heathrow protest

Thousands of campaigners opposed to plans for a third runway at Heathrow joined a protest rally outside the west London airport.
An estimated 3,000 protesters marched from Hatton Cross to Sipson, the village that would be lost if the planned runway goes ahead.
They then gathered to form a giant "NO", that could be seen from the air.
Campaigners say the planned expansion would have a serious impact on hundreds of thousands of homes in the area.
But business groups and airlines claim the third runway is essential.
MPs, local council leaders and environmentalists addressed the crowds.
Speakers included London's deputy mayor Richard Barnes.

Village destroyed
He said: "I've represented Hillingdon for 20 years and this is not the first time I've fought Heathrow airport expansion.
"They keep lying to us but this time we will win because we have cross-party support."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif Economic expansion and growth is all very well for those making the money but the damage it's doing to the planet is not acceptable http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Lewis Jones, protester


In November last year the government set out proposals for a major expansion at Heathrow, which could see the building of a third runway and a sixth terminal.
The new runway would be 2,200m (about 7,200ft) long and could be in operation by 2020 if it got the go-ahead.
The government has said it would meet noise and air quality targets, but the entire village of Sipson with about 700 homes would be destroyed.
Protester Anna Serdaris, 50, from Athens, said: "We have the same problem at Athens airport and I felt I needed to show my support.
"It's ironic that I've had to fly here this morning to protest against airport expansion but people need to listen."

Support jobs
Lewis Jones, 21, from Roehampton said: "I'm here just because the public need to know.
"Economic expansion and growth is all very well for those making the money but the damage it's doing to the planet is not acceptable. This is building momentum."
The Archbishop of Canterbury also backed protesters and a letter from Dr Rowan Williams was read out at the rally.
It said: "Concern for our environment is a clear imperative arising from the respect we owe to creation and to each other.
"So questions of airport expansion, like all developments at risk, increasing the damage we do to our global environment (which still impacts hardest on the poorest) cannot be considered uncritically, or in a morality-free zone."
But Lord Soley, campaign director of pro-expansion group Future Heathrow, said opinion polls showed local people were in favour of expansion.
"Local people know that the airport is vital to the local economy and supports jobs and business," he said.
"A third runway will only go ahead within environmental limits on noise and air quality."
Event organiser Tamsin Omond heralded the demonstration a success.
She said: "We've had 3,000 people make the effort to come out here and tell the government we don't want a third runway. And it's not just the usual suspects." But Ms Omond warned the government there was serious intent behind the protest. "The people have become politically active and if the government doesn't reverse its policy, people will become politically frustrated. The third runway will not be built - I'm talking civil disturbance." The public consultation period over the proposals ended on 27 February, and final policy decisions are expected to be taken some time next year.

Willie Wash
31st May 2008, 18:49
It is a forgone conclusion, BA & BAA have screwed up so badly, they couldn't be trusted with a 3rd runway and an expanded LHR. I say spread the economic benefit of the airport about. There is plenty of capacity at STN and LTN, even LGW with its excellent train into London is ripe for expansion

Notso Fantastic
31st May 2008, 18:59
Protester Anna Serdaris, 50, from Athens, said: "We have the same problem at Athens airport and I felt I needed to show my support.
"It's ironic that I've had to fly here this morning to protest against airport expansion but people need to listen." Good job the airport was there for this silly cow, wasn't it?

UK PLC had better get ready to slide down the European order. With idiots like these resisting any expansion of airports and ports and industry, we had better get used to fewer jobs, recession and relative poverty (and not going away on holiday) in the future as we watch those countries blessed without idiots like these snaffle up our business and industries. It's already too late- an airport like LHR with 2 runways? Unreal. The place is getting dangerous.

PS I won't be affected. I will be long gone (somewhere sunny).

airfoilmod
31st May 2008, 19:17
Where can I send a Donation?

I'd like to donate a cubic yard of concrete to the Airport Authority.

Airfoil

Super VC-10
31st May 2008, 19:18
Someone should tell them that Heathrow had six runways in the 1960's! :rolleyes:

flyingbug
31st May 2008, 19:20
protesters marched from Hatton Cross to Sipson, the village that would be lost


Believe me, having lived there, if Sipson is demolished, it wouldn't be a loss......

Helen49
31st May 2008, 19:46
Notso Fantastic typifies the thoughtless, selfish, ignorant morons who dreamed up the idea of an additional runway. He underlines his character by stating quite bluntly that it wont affect him because he will have departed to somewhere sunny!

So he doesn't care about the people who will be blighted by the additional runway and he doesn't care about either the future of civil aviation in the south east or UK PLC !! As I said above, totally selfish!

Would the views remain the same if it was his village which was to be destroyed, or his relative peace and quiet which was to be lost?

H49

Rob Courtney
31st May 2008, 20:02
Hmmm only 3000, it was hardly a large turnout then and a lot of them had FLOWN in for it.

Having said that looking at the coverage its getting on the BBC you would have thought a million had turned up.

As for Helens point, I wouldnt have bought a house in a village so close to the airport in the first place unless I worked there. Probably the reason notsofantastic is moving out is to get away from all this green global warming nutters. But then again jobs dont matter to these enviro huggy fluffs do they!

JulietNovemberPapa
31st May 2008, 20:04
The NO could be ON depending on which way the planes are flying.

roll_over
31st May 2008, 20:04
I don't get peoples problems, the government will probably give people a decent price for their houses considering nobody will buy them now. Why you would buy a house near one of the worlds busiest airports is beyond me. If they were there before Heathrow really started to get busy, they should have moved years back. No sympathy from me.

bathtub
31st May 2008, 20:09
Funny how people are branded 'idiots' and 'nutters' simply for having a different opinion.

cavortingcheetah
31st May 2008, 20:28
:hmm:

It is absolutely outrageous that the sort of lower socio-economic housing that surrounds LHR should be suborned for the provision of an extra runway at the facility. Were such an inhumane act of uprootment to take place, it is sincerely to be hoped that the government will be prevailed upon to provide alternative housing for the present inhabitants of Sipson and surrounds. Perhaps something along the lines of an eco-village could be considered. RAF Coltishall, in Norfolk, now defunct as an airfield, is about to be converted to just such an urbanisation, complete with its own low category prison. A slightly forced move from the hurly burly of Heathrow to the tranquility of East Anglia, where web footed folk still roam after dark, would provide a satisfactorily bucolic solution for those who claim that noise and pollution blight their lives?
In any event, such a drain upon the public purse would count as little when balanced against the huge advantages that a third runway at England's greatest airport would provide in shortening the time and inconvenience of travel presently experienced by those of us who divide our lives between the Indian Ocean and the Caribbean. Heathrow is a most useful staging post, only lacking in the provision of quality shops in its terminals to accord it the accolade of as first class airport.
:hmm:

It is perhaps mildly disquieting to speculate upon the fact that all this building is going to generate some potentially lucrative construction contracts. Ferrovial, the parent company of BAA is, of course, a construction/cement company. Its rich reward will greatly benefit the Spanish economy whilst providing ample employment for Polish builders who are departing Scotland because of the economic slowdown north of the border country and perhaps because of the Scotch themselves as well.:ooh:

Blacksheep
31st May 2008, 20:34
Funny how people are branded 'idiots' and 'nutters' simply for having a different opinion.Well, some of them are nutters. Like the ones I just heard on the news, getting all excited about a new "zero carbon" car that runs on compressed air.

A reasonable and thoughtful person would wonder how much fuel they were going to burn in compressing the air, and whether the process was more energy efficient than driving a vehicle directly from an internal combustion engine.

Ex Cargo Clown
31st May 2008, 20:48
If the BA PEK 777 had "pancaked" on Sipson, then it would have caused, literally hundreds of thousands pounds worth of improvements.

It would also have increased the UK's average IQ.

BerksFlyer
31st May 2008, 21:05
It's quite interesting to see how the BBC slanted the report away from Sipson and towards the environment. Though that's what we've come to expect from them isn't it.

The amount of attention aviation gets from greenies really is disproportionate to aviation's contribution to carbon emissions, which again, is very interesting. They are aviation enthusiasts in a twisted way I suppose.

Donkey497
31st May 2008, 21:09
Just to add another log on the fire, would Heathrow and the other London airports, STN, LTN & LGW need the extra capacity if air transport in the UK wasn't skewed by having the majority of long haul flights leave from LHR & LGW?

Other than BAA making two sets of landing fees & BA etc. getting two fares from "Regional" passengers going long haul, what is the incentive to feed everyone through the London Shopping Malls with adjacent runways?

It's perfectly feasible for CDG, FRA & AMS to co-exist, and have extensive services between each other, as well as all having major international long haul service networks, not just served by their own national carriers but by third nation carriers as well.

These airports are only about 500km from each other. Here in the UK we have major airports & population centres at ranges of 150km, 300km, 550km, 670km & 850km by road from LHR all of which have strong business links with foreign climes as well.

It can't be a case that they're too close to each other, or conversely that they're too far apart. Likewise, it'd be fatuous to say that the various population centres can't generate capacity. I appreciate that the frequency of operation may not be matched, but the basic demand is still there. Yet instead of a balanced coverage of the UK with regular scheduled, international services from UK "regional" airports, here in the UK, the majority of international long haul all fly from London.

So, in simple terms, why does everything in the UK have to be routed through London when our European chums can manage without this centralisation?

I am open to all suggestions on this situation ranging from an international conspiracy by the Illuminati :eek::eek::eek: down to "It's how we've always done it & we're scared to change":ugh::ugh::ugh:.

sheikandvac
31st May 2008, 21:10
Perhaps Ex Cargo Clown could explain His last sentence.

I fail to see how it has any relevance to a sensible debate on what is going to become a major issue for those in the industry.

frontlefthamster
31st May 2008, 21:28
Well, I didn't have trouble understanding it...

But I don't live there.

(By the way, do I take it that you think He is 'the one'? Has the second coming been delayed for airport expansion?)

Contacttower
31st May 2008, 22:42
Flying in to protest against airport expansion - I've never heard of anything so ridiculous!

A poll of the surrounding area actually found 50% of people supported expansion against 30% completely opposed. But a new airport in the Thames estuary would surely be a better long term option if the problems with it could be overcome.

Rob Courtney
31st May 2008, 22:54
Fraid Ive got to agree with Donkey, my local airport is Manchester and now the only time I fly BA (even though Im a card carrying Exec club member) is when I have a meeting in London or Crawley. For anything else its via AMS or CDG. BA lost my loyalty when they stopped flying from Manchester and bacame London Airways.

BerksFlyer
31st May 2008, 23:10
The reason everything goes through London is beacause Britain is tiny compared to the likes of France, Germany and Spain. All of which still have a main airport like LHR. I can't imagine people complaining about Air France's (Air Paris') long haul network being from Paris solely like people complain about BA and London - and surely that's worse seeing as France is bigger with a larger population.

There are plenty of long haul destinations from MAN. Just use the foreign carriers.

It's interesting that bmi also concentrate on London. It's simply the capital city, it's nothing personal!

13 please
31st May 2008, 23:21
Being a resident of Sipson, I'm taking some of those comments personally, how rude some people are, just 'cos it doesn't affect them.. How dare you say such things about myself, my family, friends and neighbours, just because we want to stay living where we are living..
Yes, some people who were there are against air travel, some are against airport expansion, they are 2 different issues however. I'm not against Heathrow airport as such, it's a great local employer. I've worked at LHR for 20 years.I'm against losing my home just so a few business can make even more money.
As someone said earlier, we have, Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton,Stansted and London City Airport. How many runways is that..? Already serving the south east.
How long have the other european airports had more runways..?? Is LHR a ghost town.?? Er, no...
It's just greed, plain and simple...This is where I was born and grew up, why should I not live here..??

airfoilmod
1st Jun 2008, 02:20
You'll be Civil, then? Thanks for the Heads up.

Skipness One Echo
1st Jun 2008, 02:26
I'm against losing my home just so a few business can make even more money.
No it's called the big picture and the national interest, nothing personal but this isn't just about you and a dinky little village.

I was coming back on the Piccadilly Line with some of these nutters. I was stranded next to a rather large unmarried left wing lady who gave her suitably naive friend 40 minutes on the environment without as much as a comma or a full stop. My ears were bleeding............

It's all a bit white middle class and ill informed to be honest. Next thing you know these morons will be thick enough to believe there's such a thing as green taxes ring fenced for environmental purposes, like road tax spent on.............oh screw it what's the point ?:ugh:

Rob Courtney
1st Jun 2008, 02:42
Berks,
I dont take it personally it just hacks me off that if I want to fly BA (and I Do!) I have to put up with a dodgy shuttle connection first. Ive done three return trips since T5 opened and many more before that and NEVER arrived or departed anywhere like the published time.
London may be the capital but its a royal pain in the a**e trying to travel through Heathrow. Weve got American flying three services a day, Continental one, Delta one and US Air one. All seem to make it pay and thats not even counting the Eastern Services routing out of MAN now. Is it to much to ask that ones own flag carrier flies at least some int routes through what is by any standards a major population centre.

BMI may concentrate on London but at least there is some other routes out of the reigions.

Baltasound
1st Jun 2008, 08:33
Interesting that even hard core members of the flying fraternity (Mr Ayling anybody?) have come out against Heathell being extended. As it will only basically be used by transfer passengers and will benefit very few.

Nothing will happen this side of a GE and if the Tories get in the proposal will be quietly canned I reckon. The most sensible solution would be to build a HS Rail link to St Pancras and then north to Manchester via the West Coast and Newcastle/ Edinburgh via the East Coast. That should release some capacity for longer haul at LHR.

The French have managed this sort of joined up thinking, the Spainish have and are blowing a great big hole in the Barcelona-Madrid corridor with AVE. Short haul stays on the ground which leaves loadsaspace for everything else.

Flap 5
1st Jun 2008, 10:29
Normally the last thing to be considered with these projects is the local infrastructure. The roads around Heathrow are already clogged up with traffic. They open a new terminal then realise there is a finite figure for the numbers of arrivals and departures on the two available runways. There is also a finite amount of airspace for air traffic arriving and departing Heathrow.

Frankly it would make more sense to expand Stansted with a new runway there and air traffic using SID's and STAR's to the north of Stansted away from the Heathrow traffic - but look at the local objections there when that is suggested.

wobble2plank
1st Jun 2008, 10:31
I always wondered if another 'local' airport, with a long east west ish runway could be roped in? What about Northolt for the SH traffic? Build a high speed underground rail link (must be cheaper than bulldozing the entire of Sipson), couple that with a high speed, secure baggage link and you have you're third runway.

Would require a little more planning on the part of the aircraft allocators as there would be no cross terminal taxiing etc. But the airport is right next to major road networks, easy to get to from the M25 and London and has the capacity to extend a terminal into unaffected green space. Airspace and approach/departure routes are already in place. Infrastructure update needed but that is cheaper than screwing up Lagos North for 4 years! The RAF might squeal a bit as would the BJ community but, here's the sneaky bit, do all the work at the weekend and the RAF will never notice! ;)

Just a thought?

Could be paid for with all that ring fenced environmental tax money that is pouring into Labours coffers to help them lose the next election (personal view only :} )

green granite
1st Jun 2008, 11:45
It's interesting to note that the news media reports thousands of people turned up for the protest. It is also reporting that thousands of people turned up to celebrate the last day of drinking being allowed on the London Underground. About sums it up I think. :hmm:

barry lloyd
1st Jun 2008, 12:14
Protester Anna Serdaris, 50, from Athens, said: "We have the same problem at Athens airport and I felt I needed to show my support.
"It's ironic that I've had to fly here this morning to protest against airport expansion but people need to listen."

Which is why they moved the airport from Ellinikon, just south of the city centre, to Sparta, where hardly anyone lives:ugh:

It's just greed, plain and simple...This is where I was born and grew up, why should I not live here..??

Consider yourself lucky. I'll wager that a large percentage of people on this thread have had to move (usually because of their job - or lack of it). It's called progress, and none of us is immune from it.

If the government, and the people of the south-east insist on it being the engine-room of the UK, whether it's industry or tourism, then they must pay a price for it. If visitors were encouraged to travel elsewhere in Britain instead of just the south-east, it would help relieve the congestion problem. Try asking for information on north Yorkshire, Cumbria or Northumberland at the Regent Street office of the BTA. You might as well go into Boots and ask for a packet of cigarettes.

PaperTiger
1st Jun 2008, 16:05
Why you would buy a house near one of the worlds busiest airports is beyond me. If they were there before Heathrow really started to get busy, they should have moved years back. No sympathy from me.Have you even looked at a map ?

I'll grant that Sipson is 'near' LHR but is separated from it by a major road and several hundred yards of development. It is also parallel to the existing runways and not under any flightpath nor currently subject to noticeable noise. You would have needed a crystal ball to predict that some idiot would propose a remote runway obliterate your home.

OTOH it surely did not need a crystal ball to prevent the airport from developing in such a way as to force the closure of the existing third runway. (I'll stipulate to the other three.)

WHBM
1st Jun 2008, 18:37
It's interesting to note that the news media reports thousands of people turned up for the protest. It is also reporting that thousands of people turned up to celebrate the last day of drinking being allowed on the London Underground. About sums it up I think.
Same people probably. As their 10-4 civil service jobs never require weekend working they can go to Heathrow on Saturday morning and be filmed by their mates from the BBC, then go back to London, get pissed and beat up a few police and Underground staff. Sundays are for sleeping it off and complaining their slumbers in Islington are interrupted by Heathrow being on westerlies.

ground_star
1st Jun 2008, 18:48
Am I the only one that sees the irony in the way they spelt out NO in human beings & the BA "Winking Face" ad of 1989?!

:ok: