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Fac6
27th May 2008, 18:02
A Lot has been written recently concerning pilots' salaries and comparing our job with others.

This was sent to me a while ago, I know it has done the rounds BUT to all those who think we are overpaid moaners please read below....



DON'T COMPARE MY JOB TO OTHER JOBS!

How many boardrooms explode over Long Island Sound?
How many meetings conclude with hundreds of dead bodies?
How many buses cost $250 million dollars?
How many doctors spend half the month away from their families?
Do the children of media representatives cry when Daddy puts on his uniform to go to work because they know he'll be gone for a week?
How many salesmen lose their jobs because they have high blood pressure?
How many Lab technicians have to retire because their eyesight isn’t perfect?
When your wife is watching TV and the program is interrupted by a news flash of an aircraft accident, does she momentarily freeze in fear for what she might hear?

There is not another profession in the world where the consequences for mistakes are so catastrophic and unforgiving.

THE PRICE

I pay the price when somebody loads full oxygen containers in the cargo hold
I pay the price when a terrorist has a bone to pick
I pay the price when loaders forget to set the locks
I pay the price when engineers design a fuel pump not quite correctly and the aircraft explodes
I pay the price when Mother Nature decides to shift the winds and turn me over on my belly
I pay the price when my family splits because I am away so much
I pay the price when the technology goes wrong

YOU SPEAK OF THE COST

Ask the CEO of Value and the cost of a DC-9 buried in the Everglades..

The Cost …Ask Fred Smith the cost to scrape a DC-10 and MD-11 from the runways at Steward and Newark...
The Cost ...Ask Korean Airlines the cost of a 747 that didn't quite make the runway at Guam..
The Cost ...Ask Mandarin airlines the cost of a typhoon turning an MD11 upside down when it landed into Hong Kong
The Cost ...Ask Pan Am the cost when a bomb blew up a 747 over Lockerbie
The Cost ...Ask Fine Air the cost to clean up a DC-8 off a Miami Street
The Cost ...Ask Bob Crandall the cost of a B-757 impacting a Columbian mountain...

The Cost ...And if not for their Cool, Calm, Professionalism, what could have been the cost of a Cathay Pacific 747 with one engine alight plunging into the harbour. How much were they worth to you that night?

The Cost …What would have been the cost when the British Airways 747 full of passengers lost ALL 4 engines in volcanic ash over Indonesia. The chances of relighting those engines was ZERO yet the pilots got a few going and saved everyone – What were they worth to you that day? Still Glorified overpaid Bus Drivers?

WHEN YOU TRY TO INTIMIDATE ME, REMEMBER

It was I who sits alone at the tip of an F-18 in the silent instant before I am catapulted over a cold, dark sea, while you slept peacefully in your bed
It was I who, one night watched my wings grow heavy with ice, miles from the safety of the nearest airport praying that I had enough fuel to find clear skies, while you watched Saturday night football drinking your beer and wine
It was I who flew a C-130 into Panamanian gunfire, while you decorated your Christmas tree and went to church in 1989
It was I who faced head-on the fourth largest army in the world over the deserts of Iraq and brought it to its knees, while you watched it on CNN
It was I who landed an A-6 on a floating piece of tarmac no bigger than your backyard, while you mowed yours
It was I who orbited in unarmed tankers over enemy territory to replenish others sworn to protect you and your children
It was I who watched missiles and bullets blossom in my face, yet didn't turn and run, while you watched the flowers in your garden blossom
It was I who buried a friend
It is I who knows a little boy who will never play catch with his Dad, so that you may play with your grandchild

Sir, please don 't try to intimidate me I am not your enemy, I am your asset, an asset that has experienced and accomplished things few others dare to try. Realise this and there are few obstacles we can't overcome.

main_dog
27th May 2008, 18:27
Way to go, FAC6... here is the prologue to the above... if someone has enough time to moan about how overpaid pilots are they have the time to read this!

===============================================
================

The airline business is an equal opportunity career field. Airlines,
including Delta, American, United, and Northwest are hiring loads of pilots
right now. You, too, can find yourself in the cockpit of a 767, 727, A-300
or any other commercial aircraft out there in the skies. The airlines hire
regardless of race, religion, age or sex. They are literally the epitome of
the equal opportunity employer. All it takes is enough intelligence to
obtain an application, fill it out and send it back to personnel for
consideration. That's it!! Then you may be offered an entry level position
as a pilot with any of the airlines, at a starting pay of $25,000 - 28,000
per year. Congratulations.....You're on the start of your flying
career.......Or are you????

Let's see, the current qualification requirements, to even be called in for
an interview, are as follows: 4 year college degree (no problem, if you have
a home computer in order to participate in this cyber dribble-then you've
got that); physically able to pass an FAA Class 1 exam (assuming that you
don't spend all of your time sitting on your brains at the computer, then
maybe you'll be able to pass.); and oh yeah, you've got to have completed
the Flight Engineer written exam, have multi-engine, commercial / instrument
ratings and it wouldn't hurt to have the Airline Transport Rating
(type-rated in
something larger than your couch). Generally speaking, the
current averages of new hire pilots at the major US airlines are: 3,300
hours total
flying time, 2,700 hours multi-engine/turbo, with 1,200 hours
pilot-in-command. (Sorry, sitting on your sofa, eating pizza and surfing the
channels with your TV remote doesn't count as a single minute of Instrument
time!)

What??? You don't have the minimum qualifications to even be called in for
an interview???!!! Well get off your lazy can and go get qualified.
Remember, age is not a factor. You can be 60 years old and still get hired
as a Flight Engineer - sorry the federal government says you can't fly past
age 60, but you can be a "plumber". Over 95 percent of the pilots at Delta
Air Lines have military backgrounds. That's all you have to do.....join the
military, go to pilot training and spend 9 years on active duty flying
airplanes. You'll be able to build the hours of experience necessary to
qualify for the airlines, get paid while you're doing it and get to see the
world at the same time.

What???? Can't get selected to go to pilot training
because of the incredibly stringent requirements to get through the
door???!!! Oh, it's that you don't want to PAY THE PRICE of having to serve
your country,
subject to "the needs of the service" and move every 2-3 years. Even then,
you don't know whether or not the airlines will be hiring when you finally
gain enough experience and complete your contract with Uncle Sam!
Just what are those high entrance standards? Let's see. For every pilot slot
there are approximately 50 who apply. From those selected, they enter a
flight screening (also known as "washout") program that eliminates half of
the group.
From there you go on to Undergraduate Pilot Training (for the Air Force, the
Navy has a similar program under a different name) for an entire year. Work
hard, because only two out of three that enter graduate. Let's do some quick
math. You are in a room with a group of people who all want to become
military pilots. In fact, there are 150 of you. Guess what? Two years later
only one of you will get to walk across a stage and get your wings pinned
on. Ouch.

Then you get to hit the operational side. Whoa, first you've got to get
through RTU (Training unit, about a 5% washout rate here). Now, you are off
to the real world, training to fight or flying operational missions. Now,
after nine years of this, the airline career is ahead of you. Wait a minute,
I just glossed over one minor area. You see, you have to SURVIVE your time
on active duty. Let's look at one squadron and the facts. This squadron of
40 pilots lost one pilot a year for four years. I know these numbers are
correct because I was in that squadron. Do the math and you see that the
odds of simply surviving a four year tour is approximately 90%. Those odds
don't seem so bad, unless you are the one whose life depends on it. Those
might seem like just statistics, but go to a few funerals, see the widows
and children, and that 90% takes on a whole new meaning. And guess what,
those numbers don't even take into account a real live war, and I'm not
talking about the wars the stock traders talk about in the stock pits. They
use real live bullets in this shooting match.

Ah, no problem, if you can't or won't make it via the military route, then
you can always go the civilian path to the airlines.....
Remember those hours of experience???? If not, your short term memory is in
doubt which may be a factor in your abilities to fly airplanes and make life
threatening decisions - reread four paragraphs previous. Those average of
3,300 hours don't come free on the civilian side of the equation either.
You'll
probably need to start flying as soon as you get your driver's license
in order to build those levels of hours before your life times out on the
mortality tables. It'll cost you at least $2,000 to get your basic flying
license: single engine, land; capable of avoiding clouds, weather less than
clear and a million miles visibility, severe crosswinds and minimum night
experience.
Now, congratulations, you've got about 40-60 hours towards that
3,300.....get going, you've got a ways to go. Start paying for some more
flying time, sport. It'll cost you 50-60 dollars per hour to rent a single
engine Piper to fly your buddies around and look at the corn fields. Figure
it out genius, it's going to be expensive to build several thousand hours.
And don't forget, even if mom and dad are footing the bill for you, 3,000
hours of Piper Cherokee time won't get you through American, United, Delta or
anyone else's doors for a peek at the application stack!!

That's right, you're going to have to get those other ratings. No problem.
You're a smart person. Just buy some more Instructor time, study some more
stacks of books, go to more ground schools, shell out several thousand more
dollars, spend thousands of hours studying some more, get that dual
instruction time, take more tests, pass more physicals and you'll get that
Instrument rating - maybe in that same Piper Cherokee. Congratulations! But
guess what.....that's right, you still aren't close to being qualified. You
now have somewhere around 200-300 hours; enough to have the minimum
necessary to go for a Commercial license. So, you pay, study, fly, study,
pay, pay, pay, fly, pay, study, test, fly, pay, pay, fly, study,
test......and finally get your Commercial licence.

Great!! Now you can be paid to fly - that'll help. But you still only have
300 or so hours flying,
not enough (remember 3,300 hours) to land a seat with the Big Boys. Don't
give up yet, oh Mr/Ms Wannabee, you're on your way. If you want it bad
enough, you'll keep going. If you don't want it bad enough, YOU'LL QUIT, SIT
BACK AND WHINE ABOUT THOSE THAT SUCCEED!!! Not you though, you press on....
Get out the check book, buy some more time. You've got to get that
multi-engine experience in order to get hired by some civilian company so
you can build your time. You study, pay, fly (multi-engine now - so double
the hourly rate), pay, pay, fly, pay, study, fly, pay, study, pay, pay some
more, fly, test, study, fly, pay and finally - you've got that multi-engine
rating. So, with all those ratings now, multi-engine, Instrument and the all
important, Commercial ticket, you can get a job flying airplanes. Oh, not
for the airlines; hell, even the commuters won't touch you yet. But you
might land yourself a job hauling canceled checks for some shady company.
That'll
be working the boneyard shift - midnight to 6 a.m. But you'll get paid
minimum wage to fly (and build those hours). Remember, you're determined to
get qualified for the Majors!! Or maybe you'll get hired to fly parachute
jumpers. Or you can become a flight instructor on light singles (assuming
you can pass the FAA's initial Flight Instructor written, oral and flight
tests: 30-40% pass rate). That'll get you a couple of hours per day. It's
probably not turbo
prop time, but it counts towards the total. No matter, if you work real
hard, fly all the time (you do have to have some minimum rest as required by
the FAA) you may be able to build almost 1,000 hours per year! At some
point in
time though, my future aviation professional friend, you've got to get that
turbine / jet engine time. Yep, pay, pay, study, fly, test, pay, fly, test,
pay, pay and more pay.

Finally, you've beat through the "trenches" of aviation to get enough hours
and experience to qualify for a position flying as a co-pilot for one of the
commuter airlines like ASA, ComAir, American Eagle or United Express. You
apply, interview and get hired!! Again, congratulations - you've made
another hurdle. Now you're building that commercial aviation experience. Oh,
by the way, you're only making $14,000 per year starting - if you're lucky!!
You'll get to do this for at least 2 -3 years to build that 3,000 hours of
experience and at some point in time, move over to the left seat to build
that pilot-in-command (PIC) time. Looking at the years of struggling to this
point, you're probably wishing you had gone the military route - of course,
you didn't choose that option!!
So you press on....

Now, regardless of whether you went the military or civilian route, there's
been some substantial risks. Throughout your career you've been subjected to
annual physical exams (in some cases, every 6 months) that could have easily
disqualified you, forever, from your chosen aviation career field. A little
bit color blind - you're history.On top of that, guess what, the FAA has
been closely watching you every step of the way. Fail to pass the written
exams - you're history. Fail to pass the orals -
you're history. Fail to pass the flying tests - you're history. No pressure.
There's more....your FAA friends have a whole stack of books of regulations
governing your life as a pilot and the operation of every single airplane
you lift off the ground. Here's the risk: SCREW UP ONE TIME, JUST ONCE, AND
BREAK AN AIRPLANE, HURT SOMEONE, OR JUST COME CLOSE - AND THEY TAKE YOUR
LICENSES AWAY FROM YOU. FOREVER !!!! They don't care how many years and
thousands of dollars you spent getting to this point in your
career......they don't care how badly you want to become a commercial
airline pilot, ........you can beg, plead, get down on your whiny knees and
cry.......THEY DON'T CARE !! YOU'RE HISTORY!!!!

Congratulations, your lifetime of work has just been trashed for a simple
mistake. Unfortunately, there are no big margins of error in this business.
Unlike working at
MacDonald's, or as a marketing rep selling coat hangers, or some computer
geek writing software or selling shoes at Macy's, when you screw up, you
stand the risk of KILLING PEOPLE! This ain't no PUSS GAME!!
But it's okay, you knew the risks, the requirements, the qualifications. YOU
KNEW THE PRICE YOU'D HAVE TO PAY!! And you also knew how easily it can all
be jerked out from under you. So you've chosen to spend your LIFETIME
studying to remain highly qualified and to get eligible for another step in
the professional aviation ladder. It goes with the territory. But there are
rewards commensurate with your choice. For one: you love to fly! That's why
you're here. Second: there is a chance that someday, if all goes well, you
may make it to the Majors and earn a good living, again, commensurate with
being a professional pilot. And besides, if this were easy to do, EVERYONE
WOULD BE DOING IT!! The requirements to "cut it" in this business make it
such that it automatically weeds out the sniffling wannabees. You either
have the mental and physical abilities coupled with the desire and
DETERMINATION or you're sitting on the sideline -WHINING!!
After 9 years on active duty in the military, or the equivalent on the
civilian side, you've gotten the licenses and experience qualifying you to
apply at the Majors. Unfortunately, the major airlines aren't like Exxon gas
stations: there simply isn't one on every street corner hiring someone to
pump gas. Any one airline is probably hiring no more than 1,000 pilots per
year - and that's a really big year in a really big airline. You may think
you have what they're
looking for, but guess what, so does every other pilot applying for that
position. So the competition just elevated to another notch higher. Odds are
more in favor of you NOT getting hired than of getting hired!! After two or
three airline interviews, you might get lucky and get hired by a startup
carrier - paying less than a person on the factory assembly line. No problem,
you'll keep applying to the other carriers even though you generally only
have one opportunity with each airline. A "NO" is generally a no for the
rest of your career.
But you'll keep trying.

Even if you do get lucky and hired by a Major, there's more years of dues to
pay, studying, hard work, long days, short nights and hurdles to cross. The
FAA not only watches you on paper, they sit on your jumpseat and watch over
your shoulder. They analyze, criticize and evaluate every move you make.
They're there for your orals, writtens, nightmare simulator checks and
rating rides.
They show up unannounced any time they choose. They check you and recheck
you; sometimes two days in a row from different examiners. One big error
now, sport, and you don't get bumped back to the "Minors", you get bounced
out on your ass!! You again accept the fact that you've chosen to live a
life in a profession that with any mistake you are AUTOMATICALLY GUILTY
UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT!!
But it's okay, because the risks are high, therefore the standards must be
even higher!! You're no longer talking about dinging in your little Cherokee
with your buddies on board. We're talking about anywhere from 100 to 400
passengers (depending on the airplane) on board who are betting their lives
that you MEET OR EXCEED THOSE HIGH STANDARDS. They're betting that when that
engine fails, the hydraulic system quits or the flight controls stop working
that you have the knowledge, experience and highly trained skill to safely
land that airplane on a short runway, in weather in which you wouldn't take
your
Honda Accord out in to buy your pizza.

Therein lies the blessing and the problem: passengers. Since deregulation,
the prices for tickets have become increasingly competitive. In fact, the
cut-throat marketing schemes of some airlines have caused tickets prices to
be so low that it is now cheaper to fly than to take the Greyhound bus.
Hence, the business takes on the look and feel of mass transportation. More
competition, lower ticket prices, more passengers. Through the process we've
lowered the standards. Average tickets prices down, thus reduced revenues,
and consequently a huge reduction in the standard of service. The simple
fact of the matter, people, is that you cannot expect to get 1st class
service for below Greyhound prices on your tickets. You don't go to the
Cadillac dealer and expect to pay Yugo prices. Here's an economic question
for you: when you go to the grocery store, the gas station, make a long
distance telephone call, buy a new modem or a new pair of shoes, do you
think you pay LESS for that product or service than what it costs the
business to SUPPLY it? Nope. But the marketing gurus in the airlines
business sell seats for less than it costs to produce them.

So costs are out of sight. Got to lower the overhead. We'll cut back on our
service: no meals, minimum number of flight attendants to provide service,
fewer agents, etc. In fact, we'll "out source" everything we can to lower
costs. We'll lay off tens of thousands of dedicated and loyal employees so
we can contract with outside companies to fuel our planes, clean them, handle
baggage and even work the gates. Those companies hire at minimum wage and
with no benefits. So guess what, there is no employee loyalty, dedication or
commitment. If it's a rainy, cold Saturday in Chicago, the minimum wage ramp
workers wont show up for work. What's the contractor going to do, fire them
and hire more minimum wage employees with the same dedication? So your bags
get lost, or stolen, or just don't get put on the plane. The flight is late
because there's not enough fuelers to fuel the airplane. You're pissed
because the flight's late and it never crosses your mind that it might be
because of your $79.00 round trip airfare from Chicago to Miami. You don't
apply the same "you get what you pay for" logic to your airline ticket that
you do when you go shopping for a new automobile. You expect to have your
ass kissed for the $39.50 for that flight segment. Hell, you can't buy a
hooker to kiss your cheek for that amount of money!!

Guess what you think you can do for your $39.50?? You feel like you have the
constitutional right to defecate, urinate and vomit in the seat; leaving it
for someone else to clean up. You throw your trash on the floor and walk
away from it. You'll change your baby's diaper on the tray table, wad up the
pamper full of baby crap and leave it in the seatback pocket. And then you
whine that you're paying too much for your ticket, the plane's late, or that
seats are too cramped. Guess what?? I wouldn't ride in your car and treat
you that way - why treat the professionals in the aviation community that
way??!! Because - YOU DON'T CARE !!!! You want the most you can get for the
least you have to pay for it!
Unfortunately, the airline managements have cut back their services to the
point that they can't cut anymore. So they look to the only other source of
cutting - employee salaries and benefits. For the non-contract (non-union)
groups it's easy to scalp. They don't have any protection from irresponsible
managements who are only interested in the bottom line. But if you happen to
be fortunate enough to have the protection of a professional organization
(unions like ALPA or APA) then it's a little bit tougher to slaughter. You
see, even though management has reduced the standards of the products they
sell, the standard by which professional pilots are subjected to have not
been reduced!! The price pilots have had to pay is still there. The risks
and the requirements still remain. Passengers may want the most they can get
for the least dollar, but they still want those pilots to have the
experience/qualifications commensurate with requirements of operating
aircraft, full of passengers, in an intense and risk-filled environment! I
hate to tell you this, sport, but that doesn't come FREE!! If you want it,
you've got to pay for it!!

Now let's fold in record profits being reaped by airline managements. Not to
mention huge salaries and bonus for executives at the airlines. Without
exception, the salaries of professional pilots throughout the business have
not kept pace with the cost of living for the past decade. Simply put,
airline pilots are making less than they were 10 years ago, yet you keep
charging more each year for that new color TV, automobile, gallon of milk or
tank of gas.
So, after 25 years of flying experience, tests, physical exams, simulator
checks, military service, etc., etc, I finally reach the left seat of an
airplane in the service of a commercial carrier. Yep, I also get a 6 figure
income. Tell me, why shouldn't I??? If anyone could get here, then this
profession wouldn't have the added benefit of a nice salary. It doesn't
require a doctor the same number of years to get to 6 figures, yet, no one
denies that surgeon is worth every penny when you're laying on the table
with your chest sliced open and a rib splitter making a hole large enough to
reach through. And a surgeon only kills them one at a time when he screws
up!! I don't hear you whining about stock brokers getting 6 figure incomes.
You don't seem to have any problem with paying $100 to take your family to a
professional baseball game to watch a 19 year-old play ball for $1 million
per year!! But for some reason, you are pissed off that professional airline
pilots are eventually compensated with a 6 figure income.

And you want to whine about their retirement? Statistically, only 1 out of
every 3 pilots entering this profession will ever make it to retirement.
That's a 66 percent chance that I'll never see the lump-sum numbers that you
want to ***CENSORED*** about. And guess what, if it weren't for collective
bargaining, contracts, unions and federal regulations, reckless managements
would be robbing those retirement funds like Jesse James. Thank goodness
there are unions out there protecting the earned benefits of professionals.
So why shouldn't the pilots at American, United, Delta or any other union
carrier, fight for the survival of their profession. Obviously managements
have forgotten (or selectively forget) what it took to get in the pilot's
seat (managements are predominately non-pilots) and what it takes to remain
there for a full career. Executives would like to ignore their own high
salaries, bonuses and benefits and would rather ignite the public and fellow
employees against the "6 figure salaries" of the professional pilots.

So you, in your ignorance, jump on that bashing bandwagon without being
armed with the facts. The fact of the matter is this: If you, or any other
living, breathing, whining non-achiever wants to make the 6 figure income of
a professional pilot - it's an open door that's available to you. I've laid
it out for you. It's there for the taking. All you have to do is go for it.
You can't sit on the sideline and whine though. Whining wont get you into
the Captain's seat on a B-767. You also can't leap from your Piper Cherokee
into the left seat of that MD-11 or B-727. There are no short cuts!! But you
can get there; many have made it. So can you. But if you don't want it bad
enough to pay the price, or you don't have the commitment, dedication,
enthusiasm or determination to get there.....then STOP YOUR BITCHING.
Because, you see, just as much as you obviously don't care what it takes for
an individual to make it to the left seat of a B-747 with 400 passengers on
board, we don't give a rat's ass that you don't care !! We'll do what we
have to do to protect our profession, careers, benefits and salaries. It
wasn't a cake walk to get here.....that's obvious because you're not among
those that have SUCCEEDED.

Have another slice of pizza, flip to a different channel and stop bashing
those who chose a tougher career.
============================================================ ================

rick.shaw
29th May 2008, 03:25
A little dramatic, but not far from the truth.

Christep, take note.....

christep
29th May 2008, 05:36
Noted. I'm sure flight engineers said the same things about how indispensable they were as well. It's just a matter of how soon the software gets to the point where pilots go the same way.

I haven't got the time to do the research in detail, but I'd hazard a guess that the number of deaths caused by pilot error that would not have been made by software (in dodgy 3rd world airlines largely I grant you) probably already exceeds those saved by pilot recovery actions which would have been beyond the capability of software with the possibility of remote flying (as per military craft already).

It will happen - it's just a matter of when. The more expensive you guys remain the sooner it will happen because it will make more sense to spend more money on the systems development.

ron burgandy
29th May 2008, 05:52
I wonder if a software program would have given the go ahead to lending money to people that couldn't aford to pay it back. You know like the quality decisions from all those greedy bankers that caused the "sub prime" crisis.

I'm pretty sure that's cost abundantly more money than all the bad decisions of all pilots put together for the last 100 years.

Maybe we should get rid of all bankers...........

CXpletive
29th May 2008, 05:59
... surely there is a forum out there for Traveling Telephone Salesmen that would welcome "Christep" the wannabe pilot's insightful posts?

As JTR once pointed out to him, the top of this forum does say ....

"Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum." (No mention of telephone salesmen there)

We really are not interested in his drivel .... If he takes some lessons, gets a licence and gets a job then maybe he will be "warmly welcomed into the forum".

Until then why doesn't he save his "interesting and highly informative" (READ: deluded and ill informed?) Posts for a plane spotting or Flight Sim forum so the other "could have, should have, DIDN'Ts" , may benefit from his obvious self professed expertise.

Frankly, we as Professionals in our chosen field are not interested.

AtoBsafely
29th May 2008, 06:09
Christep,

I'd say you will have pilotless aircraft about the same time that you visit a computer when you are sick, invest by pushing "Enter" and there is a super-computer on the 9th floor to steer the company more soundly.

We will all be sitting on a sunny beach sipping beverages mixed by our robot slaves!

hongkongfooey
29th May 2008, 06:09
'm sure flight engineers said the same things about how indispensable they were as well

So lets compare apples with asteroids shall we ? removing the FE from the flight deck of a 3 crew operation as A/c became more automated, particularly in the engine and fuel management department isn't really the same as removing all human input from the flight deck now is it?
You're credibility with statements like that is not getting any better.

Jeezuz Christ-ep, my computer crashes at least twice a week, good luck with your pilot-less commercial A/C, I hope you have achieved immortality so you live long enough to see that :bored: