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dazpoo23
25th May 2008, 17:32
I was just wondering how this came about? Why is Britain great, do others around the world refer to it as 'great' or is it some sort of self perpetuated phrase developed to installed pride into this country?

It would be interesting to find out.

Spitoon
25th May 2008, 17:43
The largest island of the British Isles???

Davaar
25th May 2008, 17:49
It was anciently called great, so my recollection goes, because it is bigger than the lesser Britain, or Brittany.

Captain Airclues
25th May 2008, 18:03
As has been stated, the 'Great' refers to size rather than quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain

Airclues

A A Gruntpuddock
25th May 2008, 18:05
Davaar is correct. At one time an area in the south of England and part of France (Brittany) were under the control of the same 'king'. To avoid confusion, the larger area (in England) was referred to as great brittany, later to become 'Great Britain'. It has no other significance.

419
25th May 2008, 18:53
Why 'Great' Britain

Possibly because,

Rip off Britain, (home to an ever increasing number of immigrants, both legal and illegal, land of rising crime, a failing health service, bureaucracy gone mad, and a government with their snouts so far in the trough they have trouble breathing)

Doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

er340790
25th May 2008, 19:42
Aye. It stems from the French...... as in Grande Bretagne or Big Britanny..... just that someone somewhere decided Great sounded better than Big in English.

ORAC
25th May 2008, 20:04
just that someone somewhere decided Great sounded better than Big in English. Or Gross Bretagne......

Blacksheep
25th May 2008, 22:36
The land of the Britons existed as a collection of small kingdoms long before these various kingdoms coalesced variously into England, Scotland and Wales - Ireland being a quite seperate island kingdom. Julius Caesar came, saw and conquered, after which most of the main island became the Roman province of Britain - approximating the present countries of England and Wales and excluding the barbarian northern land of the Picts. The Lesser Britain.

As a highly over-simplified outline of developments:

After the Romans left there were a long series of invasions and wars culminating in the Norman conquest and the unification of England. The principality of Wales was later annexed by the English King Edward to form the Kingdom of England & Wales. Ireland was seized and added to the English kingdom and finally Scotland was joined by the Act of Union, with England & Wales and the English Crown's Irish possession to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. With the independence of Eire, this became the current State - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Great Britain thus refers to the main island of the British Isles, encompassing the kingdom of England and the principality of Wales (Lesser Britain) together with the kingdom of Scotland - forming Great Britain. Northern Ireland and the smaller British Isles - e.g. Man, Jersey, Guernsey etc. are not included in Great Britain and enjoy various degrees of autonomy while remaining British sovereign territory. Several nations joined together but not as a federation or confederation - a typically British lash-up.

The short form for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would thus more properly be "United Kingdom" rather than "Great Britain".

(Having said that, I generally describe myself as English when asked.)

dazpoo23
25th May 2008, 23:27
Cheers fellas!

pigboat
25th May 2008, 23:39
Well, I've always thought Britain was pretty Great. All except the bacon. That's only mediocre.

419
26th May 2008, 00:04
Provided you get decent dry cured, thick sliced bacon, you can get some very nice tasty stuff. It costs more, but it's worth it.

If it's the bog standard supermarket bacon, I agree that it can be pretty awful.

LordGrumpy
26th May 2008, 00:06
Of the bacon. What is good for for one is not necessarily appropriate for another.

reynoldsno1
26th May 2008, 00:24
British, Great or otherwise, ham and cheese is pretty good too .... great you could say, or grate in the case of the cheese .... sorry:rolleyes:

Buster Hyman
26th May 2008, 01:55
Why 'Great' Britain

Because Pakistan was already taken!

Um... lifting...
26th May 2008, 02:50
ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
WOMAN: King of the who?
ARTHUR: The Britons.
WOMAN: Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR: Well, we all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king.
WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.

VAFFPAX
26th May 2008, 03:36
Sorry Blacksheep, but Wales was never "Lesser Brittany". Ever.

Grande Bretagne and Bretagne does, as others have pointed out, refer to the island encompassing England, Scotland and Wales, and the French Brittany respectively. That's how the Channel Islands remained British - They chose to remain in British hands after the British realm gave up Bretagne to the French.

As for using United Kingdom instead of Great Britain, technically the full name is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", referring to, well, the united realms of England, Wales and Scotland (on the British Isle - Great Britain) and Northern Ireland, so you are correct there. United Kingdom is more accurate than Great Britain. But try to explain that to the US, where they don't understand that concept (I have endless hassle trying to explain that to magazine publishers - "We can't find United Kingdom, only Great Britain" or worse "only England or Scotland").

S.

Blacksheep
26th May 2008, 07:29
Wales was never "Lesser Brittany". EverPoetic licence I'm afraid. The Roman province of Britain included what is today most of England and all of Wales. The French Brittany was part of Gaul and quite seperate until William the Bastard killed Harold and united the Duchy of Normandy (and his possessions in Bretagne) with the English kingdom. Hence I used the expression to make the contrast between Great Britain - the combined countries of England, Wales and Scotland - and a notional or imaginary "Lesser Britain" comprised only of England and Wales. I accept that such a place as Lesser Britain never actually existed.

Outside Monty Python's search for the Holy Grail there never was a King Arthur either, but that doesn't stop us from cherishing him and his knights as a dearly beloved part of our culture. I'm not as certain about the Knights who say Nik, though, nor the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. There are parts of Great Britain where civilised men seldom venture and who knows what barbaric throwbacks may be lurking there?

ORAC
26th May 2008, 08:59
As for using United Kingdom instead of Great Britain, technically the full name is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", referring to, well, the united realms of England, Wales and Scotland (on the British Isle - Great Britain) and Northern Ireland, so you are correct there. United Kingdom is more accurate than Great Britain. Chalk & cheese.

Simply put, Great Britain is a geographic concept, it refers to the island containing England, Scotland and Wales, plus the surrounding islands such as the Orkneys, Hebrides etc. Hence Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom is a political concept, from the political union of the parliaments of Scotland and England in the Act of Union 1707 and then Ireland in 1801.

The Crown Dependencies (IOM, Jersey, Guernsey, Sark and Aldernay) are neither part of the United Kingdom, nor part of Great Britain. Geographically the are part of the British Isles; politically they are possessions of the Crwon, which is itself a vaguie concept; they have their own parliaments and set their own laws in most matters. They are also not part of the EU, but have their own treaties with it (hence Amazon shipping all CD/DVDs from St Petersport free of VAT etc).

p.s.With the dissolution of the Common Travel Area and the introduction of e-Borders, in 2009, the Crown Dependencies will be considered overseas and travellers to the UK mainland will need to present a passport or equivalent...

p.p.s The Channel Islands also hold their allegiance to the Queen Elizabeth not as the Queen of England, but as the Duke of Normandy. Hence when they toast the Queen the toast is, "The Duke of Normandy, our Queen".

Bern Oulli
26th May 2008, 11:16
Amazon shipping all CD/DVDs from St Petersport free of VAT etc

Sorry to be a pedant ORAC but there is only one "S" in "St. Peter Port", in that it does not belong to St. Peter.
[/pedant]

How do I know? Lived there for 17 years.

Blacksheep
26th May 2008, 11:59
Great Britain is a geographic concept, it refers to the island containing England, Scotland and Wales, plus the surrounding islands such as the Orkneys, Hebrides etc. Hence Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
No; it is a political concept - the unification of the three nations of England, Wales and Scotland. Thus it includes the Orkneys and Shetland islands which form part of the Kingdom of Scotland but excludes Ireland (Northern Ireland after the independence of Eire) and the Crown Dependencies which were annexed as Crown territory but never formally absorbed into either of the kingdoms - a political basis rather than a geographical one. The geographic and political commonality is coincidental.

DBisDogOne
26th May 2008, 13:05
Reminds me of the old Alexi Sayle rant: "It's a wierd imperialist concept 'Great' Britian, I mean, you don't say 'F**king brilliant France' or 'Not bad Italy' do you"

GrumpyOldFart
26th May 2008, 14:53
There are parts of Great Britain where civilised men seldom venture and who knows what barbaric throwbacks may be lurking there?



If you mean Liverpool, then please say so.


:E

Blacksheep
27th May 2008, 07:28
Actually, I was thinking of Surbiton.

BBE777
27th May 2008, 10:09
DBisDogOneReminds me of the old Alexi Sayle rant: "It's a wierd imperialist concept 'Great' Britian, I mean, you don't say 'F**king brilliant France' or 'Not bad Italy' do you"

agree, and agree as well when they say the were great cus the woke up on their own after war.... but... is more a political term

Taildragger67
27th May 2008, 11:50
Blacksheep,

It is the United Kingdom which is the political construct - as in 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'; that is, the UK includes those areas which it then names.

geographically, the British Isles is an archipelago off north-western Europe and inlcudes Great Britain, Ireland (the island), the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight and others. Great Britain is the largest (hence 'great', in terms of 'greater' and 'lesser'). Which is why I get wound up when I hear of this group called the 'British and Irish Lions' - it should either be just the 'British Lions' (as the island of Ireland is a British Isle) or the 'Great British and Irish Lions'.

http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/britishisles/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2027008

But there is something in the French links bit - guess where the three lions and St George's Cross come from...

(Clue: six Henrys before the fat one... )

chuks
27th May 2008, 12:16
You want to mail a letter from Germany East, West or otherwise to the Channel Islands then don't try the technically correct "Kanalinseln" (Channel Islands) but just put "Grossbritannien" (Great-as-in-Big Britain) as the country.

I once spent a fruitless two minutes trying to explain the legal status of Jersey to a baffled village postal worker whose knowledge of the world outside Continental Europe began and ended with Mallorca.

When you get through discussing the geographical and political status of Great Britain then please get your minds around the fact that English is considered to be a form of "Low German"! I mean to say, "Good God, sir!"

Not to upset anyone with that anyway, since judging by my last sojourn in London it is no longer so widely spoken, English per se, "Narmean?" I don't know what you call that new thing but it sure isn't English. Hell, it ain't even American!

S'land
27th May 2008, 12:54
Chuks:
Germany is not the only country to not understand about the Channel Islands (yes I have come across it here). I used to live in Italy and at one stage also worked in Switzerland (Ticino). They also do not accept that the CI are separate from GB. Used to get letters returned to the office with "country nt known" unless we added "Gran Bretagna" to the end of the address.

ORAC
27th May 2008, 13:06
To be fair, it's not only the Channel Islands. The Germans seem to be a bit vague on where the borders on a more general basis. :E

Buster Hyman
27th May 2008, 13:27
But every now & then they go & have a jolly good look to see where they are though ORAC.

corsair
27th May 2008, 13:52
Which is why I get wound up when I hear of this group called the 'British and Irish Lions' - it should either be just the 'British Lions' (as the island of Ireland is a British Isle) or the 'Great British and Irish Lions'.


Not half as wound up as the Irish get when you call them British:= Although technically you are in fact correct. Some people here get all tetchy about 'British Isles' as well. 'British and Irish Lions is the acceptable compromise as it caters for the British Irish and the Irish Irish. 'Great British and Irish Lions is a bit clumsy. It's all politics, merging with geography with history and sport thrown into the mix.

I'm not surprised about the confusion arising from the Channel Islands. Being Irish you constantly have to explain to many foreigners that you are in fact not British. (To stop them shooting you, usually :ooh:) Quite often mail from faraway places is marked Ireland, United Kingdom. :rolleyes:


You have to admit though, that the whole Great Britain, United Kingdom thing is crazy if you think about. Let's be honest here. Most other countries would simply have annexed the lot. France even manages to have a part of metropolitan France in South America.

Instead there's this confusing mix of three countries and a bit of someone elses:p (oooh controversy). A bunch of Islands which are semi independant but part of the whole deal, yet manage to stay out of EU. Different bank notes, different laws, even languages.

How the hell does one country have four national teams?

I mean, no wonder the foriegners are confused. Most of the Britiish? er United Kingdomers, Great Britons, can't figure it out either.

You are an enigma to the rest of us.:hmm:

Wader2
27th May 2008, 13:56
Great Grimsby, great :)

Wingswinger
27th May 2008, 13:56
If I may add my tupp'orth: Brittany (formerly Armorica) only came to be called Brittany as a result of a migration of Ancient Britons away from the Isles from about AD 410 onwards. They were fleeing the pagan, illiterate, barbarian Saxon hordes.

selfloadingcargo
27th May 2008, 14:26
They were fleeing the pagan, illiterate, barbarian Saxon hordes.
...steady on, those are my ancestors you're talking about.....

Ozzy
27th May 2008, 14:45
Wasn't it Maggie that put the Great back into Britain. I think it is now just Britain again....:8

Ozzy

Dushan
27th May 2008, 15:09
:confused::confused::confused:

to a baffled village postal worker whose knowledge of the world outside Continental Europe began and ended with Mallorca.


I thought that the world's ignoramuses (ignorami??) only lived in America. The Yeropeens are supposed to be cultured and educated beyond belief. What kind of trash are you spreading now Chuks? Next thing you are going to tell us is that the red tractor is not red at all, but silver, and it is not even a tractor but a Bimmer.

For shame....

Blacksheep
27th May 2008, 16:04
British Isles is an archipelago off north-western Europe and inlcudes Great Britain, Ireland (the island), the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight and others. By that construct Taildragger66, the Isle of Wight, the Scillies, Orkneys, Shetlands - indeed the home of Talisker itself! - are excluded from 'Grande Bretagne'. But it is in fact the geographical territories of the political entities that are England, Scotland and Wales that form 'Great Britain'; the whole of all three realms, not simply the big island at the core. Since none of the islands lie upon your defined Great Britain, they would by definition be excluded from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - yet this is not in fact so.

Northern Ireland, Man, Alderney, Sark, Jersey and Guernsey are excluded - both from Great Britain and in the case of the latter five islands the United Kingdom as well. The 'British Isles' includes all six of those territories, together with Great Britain and Eire.

How the hell does one country have four national teams?Simple. We're four nations, each with our own customs and culture, living in a unified sovereign territory. That's why we never win anything. If we had only one 'British' team you'd all be in trouble... :E

djk
27th May 2008, 20:59
Actually there was a King Arthur who existed about 825 AD and fought in the battle of Ellandun

Wingswinger
27th May 2008, 21:44
There was indeed an Arthur but he was more a Celtic (British) warlord who resisted the Saxon onslought than a king and he lived somewhat earlier. He is thought to have been slain at the battle of Camlann in AD 537 or 539.

Source: Celt and Saxon - The Struggle for Britain AD 410 - 937 by Peter Berresford Ellis

the bald eagle
27th May 2008, 23:20
"Actually there was a King Arthur who existed about 825 AD and fought in the battle of Ellandun"

Now known as ELLAND RD - LEEDS:E

I always thought it was when we had an emporer we had an empire then we had a king and we had a kingdom now we've got a country.....

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
28th May 2008, 01:00
Reminds me of the old Alexi Sayle rant: "It's a wierd imperialist concept 'Great' Britian, I mean, you don't say 'F**king brilliant France' or 'Not bad Italy' do you"
True, but in Oklahoma you, or rather they, say "Oklahoma is OK" :bored:

Davaar
28th May 2008, 01:10
.............. and in Texas, according to Google, they, or rather you, have "The Great State of Texas". Yes?

Dushan
28th May 2008, 01:21
The Great State of Texas

But in this case it is totally appropriate.

Davaar
28th May 2008, 01:34
Well early one evenin' I was rolling around
I was feelin' kinda mean I shot a deputy down,
Strolled along home and I went to bed
Well I laid my pistol up under my head.

(He strolled along home) I took my time.
(And he went to bed) Thought I'd sleep some.
(Laid his pistol) Big 22.
(Up under his head) I keep it handy.

Well early in the mornin' bout the break of day
I figured it was time to make a getaway
Steppin' right along but I was steppin' too slow
Got surrounded by a sheriff down in Mexico

(Well he was steppin' right along) I were a hot-footin' it.
(But he was steppin' too slow) It was a sultry day.
(Got surrounded by a sheriff) Boxed in.
(In Mexico) I didn't even have a chance to see the country.

When I was arrested well I didn't have a dime
The sheriff said, 'Son you're riding free this time.
'Where you're going you won't need a cent
Cause the great state of Texas gonna pay your rent.'

(Cause where you're going) I think he means jail.
(You won't need a cent) Well he knows I'm broke.
(Cause the great state of Texas) Yippee!
(Gonna pay your rent) I'm mighty grateful fellas.

and so on.

GrumpyOldFart
28th May 2008, 03:02
Great Britain, perhaps - but Greater London.


:E

Blacksheep
28th May 2008, 07:27
in Oklahoma you, or rather they, say "Oklahoma is OK"I was under the impression they formed into huge chorus lines and danced about while singing an over-enthusiastic and jolly song about how nice it is there. :confused:

27mm
28th May 2008, 07:47
While the Germans normally refer to us as Großbritannien, it's interesting to note the WWII Luftwaffe ballad that contains the line "...wir fahren gegen England". But who are we to quibble, with a Royal family from Saxe-Coburg?

Blacksheep
28th May 2008, 08:05
Furriners always pick a fight with the English. Never the Scots or the Welsh. It was always thus.

The Royal Family may well be from Saxe Coberg, but the Welsh and Scots are Celts and we North Easterners are of Viking stock, which may be why we have such a low opinion of the Saxon upstarts. We must bring back the Tudors - or even better the Plantaginets.

Davaar
28th May 2008, 09:06
27 mm, there was the WW1 cartoon from "Punch", as I recall, of the Scottish soldiers in the trenches looking at the German sign: "Gott strafe England". The Jocks have just put a line through "England" and written in "Great Britain".

Wingswinger
28th May 2008, 09:10
the Welsh and Scots are Celts

Sorry BS, but I have to point out that a significant proportion of we Scots are not Celtic, whether Brythonic or Gaelic. We are also Pictish, Angle, Viking and Norman with dashes of Flemish and Baltic peoples.

Lallans or Scots, the English dialect of Scotland, the language of Rabbie Burns, is a Germanic language based on the Angle dialect rather than the Saxon dialect with many borrowings from Norse and German.

Forkandles
28th May 2008, 09:17
Great Britain? Gordon Brown has written a letter to John Terry, the Chelsea FC captain, to tell him he ‘understands’. Apparently, JT is an inspiration and a natural leader to the nation.

So, crying like a girl non-stop and needing hugs from other men when losing a football match is an inspiration and signs of a natural leader? Spoken by the PM of Great Britain?
Obviously, Gordon woke up, noticed that the country he runs is up shit creek and the local ‘Oar Emporium’ sold its last paddle to Tony Blair a couple of years ago, thought it would be a good idea to send a letter to an arrogant, foul mouthed, ignorant chav, to commiserate with him on being a complete failure. (Not to mention the England manager has fallen for it as well. Oh, I just have. Never mind). No wonder this country continually bends over, touches its collective toes and takes it like a good-un.

Whatever happened to the British stiff upper lip and not showing emotion in public? These very public shows of emotion are surely a sign of weakness in a competitive environment, are they not?

I fcuking despair. Did Britain fight (and beat 3 times) the filthy Hun so that we could become such a laughing stock on the world stage? Not only do our Royal Marines spend too much time listening to their ipods to not see or hear an Iranian fast attack boat ‘sneaking’ up on them, then surrendering faster than a Frenchman in 1939, but we are urged to reduce our carbon footprint, don’t get too rough while defending our property against some drug addled dole scrounger, pay two lots of tax on our fuel, get up to our eyes in debt with Ocean Finance and then watch as our once world leading industrial nation and manufacturing industry is shipped off to India and China while watching a load of toffs compete for a six figure salary with Alan Sugar on reality TV?

It would be funny if it was happening in France, but it isn’t and the British public need to wake up from their naivety and smell the fcuking coffee because we’re being royally reamed and all we seem to do is relax, sit back with the remote control and watch another series of Big Brother and hope Simon Cowell gets some pants that fit him. Stuff that matters, you know?

The British public appears to be a bunch of lazy, thick, compo claiming fcukwits that have got the Government they deserve and anyone with half a brain is making hay while the sun shines, before the country ends up like the stagnant turd infested backwater it is surely soon to become.

Does that cover it?

Wingswinger
28th May 2008, 09:38
From something I posted earlier:

They were fleeing the pagan, illiterate, barbarian Saxon hordes.

Seems as though things are going full circle. The English are nearly back there. :E

Ace Rimmer
28th May 2008, 13:40
Story in the Torygraph yesterday some yoof decided that he would heroically 'happy slap' a lamb...so he did...until the poor little bleater was so bolloxed it had to be converted to chops straight away....

great bet it made him feel really big...:ugh:

FLCH
28th May 2008, 14:27
Would they be slam chops perchance ??

The boy needs to be kicked in the spheres a couple of times, that would bring him to his senses....

Davaar
28th May 2008, 15:14
This discussion may grow ugly. See from another site:

QUOTE
The service to Toronto, by Via Rail, occurs only three days a week. Coming to
Greater Sudbury from Toronto can only be done two days a week. North Bay has a train going to and coming from Toronto six days a week. Using air transportation, North Bay can handle fog better than Greater Sudbury and its runways are superior to ours, so now I will ask, what is so great about Sudbury?
UNQUOTE

Well may [she] ask.

Dushan
28th May 2008, 15:46
Davaar

so now I will ask, what is so great about Sudbury?


It said "Greater Sudbury", not "Great Sudbury". What that refers to is the geographic area that includes suburbs of Sudbury.

No self respecting Candian would boast about anything, eh?

Would he?

corsair
28th May 2008, 15:48
Forkhandles, all I can say is wow! But you only beat the hun twice. But you did (with our help) beat the French quite a lot if that's any compensation.:ok:

VAFFPAX
28th May 2008, 16:30
Considering my personal family history, I can completely understand why the Germans simply referred to "England" instead of "Großbrittanien" - It's the same reason that the Americans simply refer to the UK as a whole as England: Ignorance.

That Scotland (Schottland), Wales (Wales) and Northern Ireland (Nord-Irland) are separate countries (Staten) was irrelevant to them. After all, a kingdom that is comprised of several other countries is a concept foreign to many (not just the Germans).

If you look at the Federal Republic of Germany, you will notice that the former kingdom of Bavaria takes up a massive chunk, and that there are several former kingdoms, duchies and a palatinate (Rheinland-Pfalz) all contained in a FEDERATION. But a kingdom made up of various other countries, all claiming their own unique identity? Sehr fremd (very foreign)!

So forgive our friendly Krauts... I love 'em dearly.

S.

Davaar
28th May 2008, 16:50
Besides, I have it on pretty good authority that anyone from more than ten kilometres out of Hamburg -- Oh Well! Greater Metropolitan Hamburg -- is Bavarian anyway, and not only that, but talks funny too.

Forkandles
28th May 2008, 19:06
...you only beat the hun twice.

<ahem> You appear to be forgetting 1966. :ok:

VAFFPAX
28th May 2008, 19:59
davaar, I think the Hamburgers seem to confuse anyone ffrom down south with the Friesen (Ost, West, Nord... no difference) in Schleswig-Holstein. Now they are a different breed altogether.

:-)

S.

Davaar
28th May 2008, 20:06
You are probably right, Vaff. One thing for certain, the other lot, or lots, are not from Hamburg. That is, so to speak, genug.

chuks
28th May 2008, 21:25
The folks in my area, Lower Saxony, refer to the people from Bavaria as being from "Norditalien" (Northern Italy).

Some wag has it, on the other hand, that all of the Germans are simply "Italians in a bad mood," with which I can only concur.

I just try to take people as I find them. All of this chauvinism is just good for a few wind-ups in the bar but that is about all.

Every nation has its share of good guys, bad guys and out-and-out oxygen thieves. The great mystery to me is how so many of the latter end up in aviation as management but that has nothing to do with nationality. I travel all the way from Podunk Municipal Airport to halfway across the world and it is as if I am still working for another version of the same loser I left behind in Podunk. How can that be? Of course he just got rid of some lunatic from Malaysia, say, and here comes another one from Podunk; there is that, I suppose...

VAFFPAX
28th May 2008, 23:17
Ahhh Niedersachsen... ;)

Hannover... lovely city, used to travel through it a lot between Hamburg and Köln, with a stop-over in Bielefeld.

I love taking the mickey out of my German relatives, just like I do with my English family. If you can't laugh at yourself, how can you laugh at anyone/anything else?

:)

S.