rejected

[ichewa]

Hi ppl,
any idea what should a singaporean that have failed SQ interview do to land him a airliner pilot job else where?

hey NYP, change citizenship? change religion? change race? humm..

any singaporean tried other airline other then SQ? cadet or SO or FO or cpt.

:confused: tell me wat to do..

[JuniorPilot]

Hi Ichewa,
First of all , u should ask yourself why didnt you pass the interview successfully?

YOu did not mention whether you have acquire your CPL or not ... OR ... Is it just a cadet pilot interview?

Please write me back to my e-mail address if u need my help...

[New York Pilot]

Frankly, I do not understand your line of qustioning Junior Pilot, was the interview a CPL vs. "just" a cadet pilot interview.

You may wish to know I had 6,500+ hours, ATP, several years Boeing 727 airline experience, Flight Safety International Falcon 20 instructor experience, certified aircraft mechanic and Flight Engineer experience, and a B. Sc. from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (+ more qualifications), when I had my SIA interviews as you refer to as "just" a cadet pilot interview.

SIA does not have direct a entry first officer program so those wishing with airline jet experience are forced to take the cadet pilot route with the training trimmed down to within just a year. However, be advised that there is no such thing as "just a cadet pilot interview". All interviews are challenging and for those with airline experience and Singapore PR with a western passport, a most horific experience given by the most unworthy people. You must not only be very subservent but if you have not married a Singapore chinese to get your Singapore PR and/or you may even glance at someone who does not like you, than you can expect the convient will not "fit in " permanently etched on your file.

It was my blessing not be chosen by SIA for I am far happier and richer with a major U.S. airline even though, most sadly, we have some unstable times right now and we shall overcome. I am not disgruntled that I was not chosen by SIA but at the lack of respect, maturnity, fairness and tact by the interviewing SIA management. SIA treatment of its emplyees and its safety record are a disgrace to the Republic of Singapore, I do not care for all the daily hype in The Strait Times, do not believe it. PC and other simulator checks are not truthful, often tainted grades for those undeserving and receiving them because of no other merits than race.

Ironcially, I kept in touch with whose that were chosen that infamous day 7/7/00, and the fact is all of them, all non-airline experience with and without pilot ratings, and each one is no longer a cadet, having flunked out a while ago in various phases of training.

There is no guarantee even if you get in, its an individual thing, its not easy no matter what airline or country. In the U.S. many majors have a very initial training high flunk out rate. A friend of mine failed a recurrent and lost his job with American Airlines. Another one could not get his FE flows down fast enough and failed his initial PC with United Airlines. However, not one of them feels it was ever a race issue. Why is SIA so race oriented???

However, if you are still thinking SIA then go read "Thoughts from an almost SIA Pilot" and remember SIA is of the opinion that no matter what they do, people will still want to fly for them. Somehow, I just do not feel that way.

Also, it all comes down to flying airplanes, there are people with more pressing concerns, as you should see what we are going through here in New York. Me and wife "hate" to talk about flying when I am home, its just another job, a fun one I admit, but just another job.

Think future, think food, think mortage, think marriage, think sucess, and then think about flying. That is how you get ahead in life and when you least know it someone, perhaps, will hire you to fly for them. It worked for and I would not trade it for the congressional medal of honor. All that non-flying sucess in life means that much to me.

God bless to one and all.

[ichewa]

thanks jrPilot and NYP, actually i've not gone for any interviews yet, just wanted to find out if i do have other choices other then SQ. many thanks again.
i've got zero flying experience but really hope to get into this line. now thinking more in the line of working for a airliner other then SQ, that is if there is a choice! so what are the odds of me landing in seat in some other airline as a cadet pilot? anyway, sorry for the delay, had some problem with my imac.
well, have a great day flying guys, i'll just be having fun looking from bottom. :rolleyes:

[New York Pilot]

Ichewa,

Congratulations, you must have an "Ah Beng" mentality to deceive us all. Perhaps it is in your blood, your culture, to gain in life by deceiving people but it certanly is not in my culture or blood. You have a lot of maturing to do before you ever attempt to learn to fly an airliner, please, my family may be on it someday.

Also, do you also have an email identity as Warenn Hasting, pretending that your brother-in-law is the SIA CEO, and then latter most of your family, just to try to find out for me what to expect on the SIA apptitude test, etc.

Please, grow up...............please!!!

[Vsf]

New York Pilot:

"Think future, think food, think mortage, think marriage, think sucess, and then think about flying."

Well said (poorly spelled, but well said). That's probably the best advice anyone could offer pilots.

[ichewa]

Hey NYP, cool it. read my first mail again! i didn't say that i've failed the test, all i've asked was what a singaporean should do to get a job else where if he were to fail SQ interview! just wanna find out other choices! is that wrong? don't be too quick to place your thoughts in ink. it hurts. i'm sorry if you took it too personal.
anyway i never did know ah beng had that much of personality! interesting.

[New York Pilot]

Ichewa,

I know it hurts, and I was quite mild with my heavy handedness compared to what I experienced in my final interview/tea party with the 4 chinese interviewers on the infamous day 7/7/00. 1 VP, 1 Trainer, 1 Line Captain and 1 First Officer verses myself, the 1 very eloquent and determined Indian-American.

Nobody should be judged based on race, that is the greatest type of hurt. However, with SIA its an everyday thing regardless of your competitveness or qualifications.

Also, this is the same type of like mindness that when taken out of control and envy kicks in causes humans to turn to animals and much pain is experienced such as what we are experiencing in a most horrific way here in New York since 11 Sept. 2001.

I think I made my point and GOOD LUCK in your career. Get ready and be prepared for the interview but do not count as it the ends of all means.

God bless one and all.

[ 24 October 2001: Message edited by: New York Pilot ]

[ichewa]

NYP, i think i got what you mean. leave
SQ's way of "doing things" as it is. i'll get my fair share of recieving it if i get there.
so are you willing to help me here? i've nothing to offer, maybe a affordable a coffee when you happen to fly here!

[New York Pilot]

Anybody, I mean anybody, that wants to sit down for a cup of coffee with me (I will buy own, but thanks) for some very humble guidance learned from the school of hard knocks of life is welcome. I do not know that much, honestly I do not, however I do have a pretty good grasp of what it takes to make it as an airline pilot especially when you are coming from another country. My advice is not pretty, I will always tell it like it is: the good, the bad, the ugly.

You just might get your dream SIA, I sure hope, but remember it is not the means to all. In fact, while you may not face the blatant racism and favortism you would at SIA, the United, American or Norhtwest and many others in the world are also NOT the means to all ends either. Anything can happen to you in the life of your career at any airline such as a failed PC, medical or even a furlough after a major event (ie. WTC terrorist attach here in New York) or worse yet a strained relationship with your wife and children because you are not always around for them when they need you. A good strong relationship and mutuality is everything even before you think of marraige; ie.: have you seen the high worldwide divorce figures for Pilots, its scarry.

Perhaps, in the Spring 2002, just send me your email address and I will let you know.

May you all have clear blue skies and tail winds always. Take care one and all.

[Hornetboy]

Wow NYP you sound pretty bothered about the whole SIA thing still. I mean it's totally natural to be ticked off, but come on dude......u're flyin for an American airline now. What could be better than that?!? (besides flying fighters, of course ;-))

Pretty disapointed that SIA might have judged you unfairly but have you thought that maybe it's more than race? Any chance at all? Well whatever it is I realize it hurts a hell of a lot to be rejected for a job like that, but hey, you can't keep hating.

This ain't a personal attack at all and I'm interested in whatever you have to say in reply. (oh yeah, and I'm not warren either)

[New York Pilot]

No, I am not saying its just race but I do think its very much "hate". Hate for the very Westeners, the Americans, that manufacture the airplanes SIA buys and the passengers that purchase tickets in USD on their airline and are fond tourists of the Republic of Singapore. SIA definately has a grudge against westners especially if they ever want to fly for them, that is fact. Its so easy for them to label every qualified and competitive western candidate as will not "fit in".

I was willing to and had already sacrificed much for SIA. I was perfectly willing to allow, as per the official system for all promotions and upgrades: Singapore Chinese, then Singapore Maylay, then Singapore Indian, then all others.

I did not leave for Singapore until I knew I had an interview and was told I had very competitive qualifications. I was willing to sign the ten year bond, be paid in SGD on national terms verses not expat terms, to be paid only SGD $1,000 per month while in training for a year, and I was not going to be ever fleeing my bond.

I knew Singapore, I had been going there as a kid, had strong family ties there, and knew the way things went. I had asian values, knew that I must be subservent, I was ready and they finally got someone competitively experienced and qualified with an American passport that acutally wanted to live in Singapore indfinately and fly for them. Everything they always complained they could not find...

Why? Well, its a beautiful country with an outstanding educational system that we wanted to raise our kids in while also having the benefit of a cosmpolitan society. Yes, I love Singapore as much as the U.S.

If SIA did not want me that is fine. However, some of these folks that feel they are the "master" race did not need to mistreat and put me and my Singapore wife through the most unpleasant experience of our lives, as per "Thoughts from an almost SIA Pilot".

SIA had their chance to gracefully reject me for it was Capt. McCully and Ms. Doreen Yap that gave the green light through that first interview. I would left that very month, disappointed, but having know I had been treated fairly. However, the result with accepting me after that riguours interview was me living in Singapore an additional 2.5 months taking the battery of apptitude tests and then the horrific final interview / tea party on 7-7-00.

SIA knows who I am, they have all my records and they are free to investigate. I did not go to a MP or other official to appeal SIA's decision, I did not try to force my way in, as many in Singapore suggested after what did happen. Even if I had gotten in after all that, I would have merely been a marked man. You see my appeal letter after all this was labeled "arrogant" by Capt. McCully, a letter I feel was quite reserved for what I had been through. The "master" race had spoken.

Thank goodness I did not ever fly for SIA, I am very happy, healthy and successful now despite some very trying times at my current airline now in wake of the 11 Septemebr terrorist attacks. It si a very sad time for us...

Otherwise, SIA is a good airline. What I did do in light of my treatment is disregard my Singapore Permanent Resdience for I do not believe that Singapore really wants their daughters when married to come back and live in Singapore.

Remember, SIA is of the opinion that they can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them, somehow I just do not feel that way.

Thank you for your time.

[Djoni Boerhanoeddin]

NYP there is many airlines did something that we can't find the true answer it's because they trying to cover their bad habit like race or religion discrimination you just mention SIA but you forget to look at RBA this company do look for F/O some times ago but only special for one who had Australian,New Zealand or British license, you are I believed had a FAA license I had a ICAO standard licence, could you tell tell me what is the difference once we all had over 5000 hrs on a jet and experience flying for airlines, I believed it depend to the person him self to be a good professional pilot, there is bad pilot and good pilot licenses and race got nothing to with it, that is the case for RBA they do believed that those license issued from those 3 countries are guarantee accident free because RBA do not have other reason

[New York Pilot]

Yes, there is no reason for any airline in any country to act as per your statement above.

[Djoni Boerhanoeddin]

So that is we discrimination in this world while they shouting in US in Europe in every where "no discrimination we are equal opportunity" but once they were majority in another country they take control over everythings

[New York Pilot]

People are people, racism is everywhere, some more than others. No one race is better than another for we are all God's children. Any race that thinks they are a "master race" is only a "pathetic race".

When subservence is taken too far, and race is of primary concern in hiring and promotion, then perhaps you have B747's airliners taking off on the wrong runway with none of the 2 very qualified First Officers having the guts to speak up or even admit latter as to proper "Cockpit Resource Management".

Also I am sure the family members of he victims of such runway incursions would agree with me that they too somehow disagree with the SIA standard operating procedure. The SIA standard operating procedure being that "SIA can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them". Somehow, you see, I may not be the only one that doesnt feel that way.

By the way the "master" race arranged it so after the runway incursion that anyone that wanted to share thier opinion in the Singapore press or media was effectively blocked by all available means. i know I tried all the way from New York and my posting was blocked was aleged "foul language". Funny, master race, there was no foul langauge.

Also interesting, I was only in Singapore 2 months earlier and I read a Strait Times article that headlined "SIA Flying High". Ha!!!!

It was only 2 weeks after the sad World Trade Center terrorist attack here in New York that the New York Times published a article that in these difficult times "Asia's SIA carrier is fairing far better than others". Ha!!!

SIA Public relations people and the Strait Times must be working extra overtime. Perhaps, they should wear boots.

No offense, not all Chinese consider themselves the "master" race. Only a very small minority and they not be painted with the same brush. For the most part, they are just like the rest of us, with hearts.